A new Canberra Stadium

[Billy Walker]

Which of those artists was the most recent? When the best and most prolific live music venue in Canberra is a grungy pub in Belconnen it perfectly depicts the current state of the music scene in Canberra.

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Sorry, I don't understand your point. I watch live acts on the reg at Potbelly, Dickson Taphouse, Smith's, the Basement, Transit. You absolutely need those venues going.

The city also needs the 5-10000 seat indoor venues for those bigger national and international acts, and then a 30k stadium for even bigger acts. Festivals like Spilt Milk and GTM attracts 10s of thousands of patrons. Juicy Fest isn't my thing but I think over 5000 people attended. Matchbox 20 is here this month if that's your thing. (It's not mine.)

To answer your question plenty of big names have been here the last few years as part of festival lineups (look them up yourself), but its quite clear most international acts avoid Canberra because we don't have adequate concert facilities, not because people don't care about live music. I really don't know what point you're making.

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Good to see a large international act like Matchbox 20 playing in Canberra. Apparently there are suitable venues in Canberra already. None of the other gigs you mentioned happened in the last decade ... maybe Post Malone but that's not my thing so I don't know when that was.

My point is that a lack of venues, current and your future entertainment centre, isn't the factor in holding back the music scene. It's the music scene itself.

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Could you explain further? How is the Canberra music scene holding back the music scene in Canberra?

There are heaps of venues, all very popular, and there are heaps of festivals in Canberra, attracting international acts. Last year we had two Canberra artists in the hottest 100, you could count on one hand how many have been on that list throughout its entire history. Last year a Canberra artist won the award for the best Australian album at the Arias. You could argue it's never been better, and if it isn't, when was it?

There is enough small venues currently to accommodate the small crowds. There is enough options or venues to support the small handful of larger events. Do we need a new venue with a 10k capacity which gets used once or twice a year? The festivals probably wouldn't use it, so who is using this 10k venue?

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I think you’ve got yourself into such a tangle on this one you aren’t sure what you’re saying. You seem to have gone from announcing the music scene is dead and Seiff is the only one who doesn’t know it, to now acknowledging there is a vibrant music scene that operates out of the only venues currently available.

[greeneyed]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

[gerg]

No, the point is that Canberra stadium needs an upgrade or rebuild and everyone knows the benefits of building that stadium in the city. The current stadium is drawing crowds of 15 to 20k twelve times a year, and more when we make the finals. It's also being used by the local rugby side and likely to be used if an A League bid gets up.

Some people think a convention / entertainment centre in the city is a greater priority but what artists are going to get a 10k crowd more regularly than the current Canberra stadium? Some people are suggesting that the entertainment centre needs to be in the city but stadium doesn't. If both are being built then they should both be in the city, for the very same reasons.

There's probably enough demand for music in Canberra to sustain small venues but doubtful a 10k venue. There are larger venues in Canberra already, as listed before but these are only used a handful of times per year because there isn't 10k people going out to see bands every fortnight in Canberra. Two festivals a year and maybe two or three big acts a year.

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[Seiffert82]

Yep, all those acts plus Pink, Post Malone AC/DC, Lorde, Midnight Oil, Public Enemy, Crowded House, Dire Straits, Powderfinger, Silverchair, Elton John.... Having them all play in Canberra definitely prove our music scene is dead and we should most certainly not make available facilities to host any such concerts in the future. There's certainly no demand for these acts in Canberra.

Top logic.

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Which of those artists was the most recent? When the best and most prolific live music venue in Canberra is a grungy pub in Belconnen it perfectly depicts the current state of the music scene in Canberra.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Sorry, I don't understand your point. I watch live acts on the reg at Potbelly, Dickson Taphouse, Smith's, the Basement, Transit. You absolutely need those venues going.

The city also needs the 5-10000 seat indoor venues for those bigger national and international acts, and then a 30k stadium for even bigger acts. Festivals like Spilt Milk and GTM attracts 10s of thousands of patrons. Juicy Fest isn't my thing but I think over 5000 people attended. Matchbox 20 is here this month if that's your thing. (It's not mine.)

To answer your question plenty of big names have been here the last few years as part of festival lineups (look them up yourself), but its quite clear most international acts avoid Canberra because we don't have adequate concert facilities, not because people don't care about live music. I really don't know what point you're making.

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Good to see a large international act like Matchbox 20 playing in Canberra. Apparently there are suitable venues in Canberra already. None of the other gigs you mentioned happened in the last decade ... maybe Post Malone but that's not my thing so I don't know when that was.

My point is that a lack of venues, current and your future entertainment centre, isn't the factor in holding back the music scene. It's the music scene itself.

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Yep, Post Malone this year and I've seen Lorde, Crowded House, Vance Joy, the Wombats and Dune Rats the last few years. Also caught Ian Moss on Friday night.

Again, the issue is with not having that mid-sized indoor venue (especially when the crap AIS Arena shut), not that promoters couldn't be bothered bringing acts here.

You're always going to have to go to Sydney to see the likes of Sheeran, Swift and the Foo Fighters in a stadium. That's fair enough.

An entertainment centre caters for things other than music performances too. It's why it should be integrated with a convention centre.

[Badger17]

Politics is like clockwork.

I'm just glad they seem to have stuck a fork in that ridiculous stadium redevelopment idea. **** me that was dumb.

But, I genuinely believe that an AIS located stadium is the most sensible outcome.

If the University of Canberra can build an indoor stadium nearby, the Feds revamp the AIS facilities and the ACT Government upgrades Bruce CIT as planned, it could be a top quality sports precinct...maybe with bars and restaurants! It has taken way too long but is actually a really sensible idea.

But I'm mostly excited about an Entertainment centre in the city. That will be awesome for live music options and other events. Can't wait

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You'd be the only informed person in the city who thinks a new stadium at the AIS is a sensible outcome.

Any talk of a sports precinct or restaurants or bars in Bruce is fanciful nonsense. The upgrades to the arena are beyond a joke, so there goes your precinct straight away, and there's no way restaurants and bars would be able to survive in Bruce just off the back of the sporting events held in Canberra in the average year.

I'll be honest, I'll probably be done if they rebuild in Bruce. Membership prices will likely skyrocket in response to the increased rent of the new stadium with no significant improvement in the experience to show for it. In fact given this government's reputation the odds are that they'll build over the carparks, which will restrict access to huge portions of city given how incompetent public transport is here, and I'd be surprised if they even address the exposure to the elements in the stands given the average standards in the rest of the country.

Yeah a new stadium in Bruce is a complete waste of time and money, I guess it doesn't matter though as it's only getting talked about because it's an election year.

I agree that restaurants and bars will not be successful solely on the back of a sports stadium. However, good bars and restaurants in suburban areas do well irrespective.

At the end of the day, there's no question the city will be far better served with a decent entertainment centre on that pool site, rather than a stadium.

Or we could continue to compare Canberra with Melbourne, like somehow there's a huge tract of vacant land right near the city centre waiting for a sports and entertainment complex.

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Why would the city be better served by an entertainment centre on the pool site than a stadium? An entertainment centre can fit just about anywhere. There’d be a whole pile of carparks an entertainment centre could be built on.

There is actually a huge tract of vacant land on the other side of Parkes Way, of course. Right near the city centre.

But all is needed is a bit of vision. Put Parkes Way underground and we can have an amazing new Canberra Stadium in Civic.

You can't plonk a 10,000 seat entertainment and convention centre just about anywhere. Nobody here will agree, but location and accessibility for that sort of complex is much more important than an outdoor stadium.

But anyway, continue rant. Get used to the fact a stadium will not be built on Parkes Way or in the middle of Commonwealth Park.

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Location and accessibility is just as important for all sports and entertainment infrastructure. It can be the difference between a facility being an economic boon for a city or an expensive white elephant.

We get it, you want a venue that can sustain larger music acts, but that doesn't mean that stadiums and sports venues don't gain similar benefits from being as centrally located as possible as well, and it's honestly pretty insane that you'd suggest otherwise.

[Billy Walker]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

[Robert the Bruce]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

The Canberra music scene died when The Red Hot Chilli Peppers relocated to Los Angeles and that was a long time ago

[Billy Walker]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

The Canberra music scene died when The Red Hot Chilli Peppers relocated to Los Angeles and that was a long time ago

Dreeeeaaamer - you’re nothing but a dreeeeamer. Will they put Parkes Way underground- oh no!

[gerg]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

The Canberra music scene died when The Red Hot Chilli Peppers relocated to Los Angeles and that was a long time ago

Another band that I had to travel to Sydney for, the BSSM tour.

I'd say the Canberra music scene took a heavy loss when the Greenroom and ANU closed up.

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[Robert the Bruce]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

The Canberra music scene died when The Red Hot Chilli Peppers relocated to Los Angeles and that was a long time ago

Dreeeeaaamer - you’re nothing but a dreeeeamer. Will they put Parkes Way underground- oh no!

Imagine Parkes Way's underground
It isn't hard to do
A new convention-centre
And no Civic Pool too
Imagine all the people
Eating nachos at new restaurants in a revitalized city centre

[Chorus]
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
At the new Can-bra staaay-de-um.

[reptar]

Now hear me out… instead of putting Parkes Way underground, why not put the stadium underground?

[gangrenous]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

[gangrenous]

Those numbers are from the 2018 - 2019 financial year. I kind of recall the Raiders beating Souths in 2019 to make a GF in front of a record crowd about 3 months after. Using Billy's logic they catered to 6% of the population in that game.

I think your memory and your math might be failing you.

Did this game not occur?

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiershi ... rabbitohs/

27k/450k (the population at the time) is 6%.

No away fans attended?

Just admit you’re wrong Billy.

[Billy Walker]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

I’d say reworking the words to Supertramps’ Dreamer might be more fitting.

The Canberra music scene died when The Red Hot Chilli Peppers relocated to Los Angeles and that was a long time ago

Dreeeeaaamer - you’re nothing but a dreeeeamer. Will they put Parkes Way underground- oh no!

Imagine Parkes Way's underground
It isn't hard to do
A new convention-centre
And no Civic Pool too
Imagine all the people
Eating nachos at new restaurants in a revitalized city centre

[Chorus]
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
At the new Can-bra staaay-de-um.

Very good! Well played Sir

[Billy Walker]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

I like where this is going - can we drop the Viking links and become the Canberra Molemen?

[BJ]

To be fair, the public flats in the inner city suburbs were like slums. I've had relos and friends live in Bega Flats, Condamine Courts and Stuart Flats over the years. Horrendous stuff, glad they're gone.

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Do your friends and relatives think the ACT maintained Bega Flats well?

Or do they reckon the flats were purposefully not properly maintained to ensure the government could sell them off. I know what my cousin who lived there thinks.

I wouldn’t even go there to visit him after 2008 and I’m a pretty solid bloke.

[Cranky Old Man]

Nobody alive now will see a new stadium in Canberra. Queanbeyan is more likely, but highly improbable.

[Seiffert82]

To be fair, the public flats in the inner city suburbs were like slums. I've had relos and friends live in Bega Flats, Condamine Courts and Stuart Flats over the years. Horrendous stuff, glad they're gone.

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Do your friends and relatives think the ACT maintained Bega Flats well?

Or do they reckon the flats were purposefully not properly maintained to ensure the government could sell them off. I know what my cousin who lived there thinks.

I wouldn’t even go there to visit him after 2008 and I’m a pretty solid bloke.

No, they most definitely weren't maintained, but their fundamental design was awful.

Plonking dozens of socially disadvantaged people, individuals with significant mental health issues, poverty stricken students and old age pensioners together in public housing flats is an awful model. This was a policy which was great for people who don't want social housing next door to them, but **** horrendous for any poor person forced to live in that environment.

I am surrounded by lower density public housing where I live. It's a perfectly good situation. However, there's no way I'd want to live anywhere near those flats, no matter how well they were maintained.

And for the record, I'd be very happy for Andrew Barr to be benched from the Chief Minister position, and for more independent representation make its way into the assembly.

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[Seiffert82]

You'd be the only informed person in the city who thinks a new stadium at the AIS is a sensible outcome.

Any talk of a sports precinct or restaurants or bars in Bruce is fanciful nonsense. The upgrades to the arena are beyond a joke, so there goes your precinct straight away, and there's no way restaurants and bars would be able to survive in Bruce just off the back of the sporting events held in Canberra in the average year.

I'll be honest, I'll probably be done if they rebuild in Bruce. Membership prices will likely skyrocket in response to the increased rent of the new stadium with no significant improvement in the experience to show for it. In fact given this government's reputation the odds are that they'll build over the carparks, which will restrict access to huge portions of city given how incompetent public transport is here, and I'd be surprised if they even address the exposure to the elements in the stands given the average standards in the rest of the country.

Yeah a new stadium in Bruce is a complete waste of time and money, I guess it doesn't matter though as it's only getting talked about because it's an election year.

I agree that restaurants and bars will not be successful solely on the back of a sports stadium. However, good bars and restaurants in suburban areas do well irrespective.

At the end of the day, there's no question the city will be far better served with a decent entertainment centre on that pool site, rather than a stadium.

Or we could continue to compare Canberra with Melbourne, like somehow there's a huge tract of vacant land right near the city centre waiting for a sports and entertainment complex.

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Why would the city be better served by an entertainment centre on the pool site than a stadium? An entertainment centre can fit just about anywhere. There’d be a whole pile of carparks an entertainment centre could be built on.

There is actually a huge tract of vacant land on the other side of Parkes Way, of course. Right near the city centre.

But all is needed is a bit of vision. Put Parkes Way underground and we can have an amazing new Canberra Stadium in Civic.

You can't plonk a 10,000 seat entertainment and convention centre just about anywhere. Nobody here will agree, but location and accessibility for that sort of complex is much more important than an outdoor stadium.

But anyway, continue rant. Get used to the fact a stadium will not be built on Parkes Way or in the middle of Commonwealth Park.

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Location and accessibility is just as important for all sports and entertainment infrastructure. It can be the difference between a facility being an economic boon for a city or an expensive white elephant.

We get it, you want a venue that can sustain larger music acts, but that doesn't mean that stadiums and sports venues don't gain similar benefits from being as centrally located as possible as well, and it's honestly pretty insane that you'd suggest otherwise.

If we could fit all the things in the city I'm 100% on board. I'm not being ambiguous or Barr apologist about it, just a realist.

[reptar]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

Ahh. That could work. Or we could have a 50m high flyover? Or build the stadium 100m in the air? This is solid thinking.

[BJ]

To be fair, the public flats in the inner city suburbs were like slums. I've had relos and friends live in Bega Flats, Condamine Courts and Stuart Flats over the years. Horrendous stuff, glad they're gone.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

Do your friends and relatives think the ACT maintained Bega Flats well?

Or do they reckon the flats were purposefully not properly maintained to ensure the government could sell them off. I know what my cousin who lived there thinks.

I wouldn’t even go there to visit him after 2008 and I’m a pretty solid bloke.

No, they most definitely weren't maintained, but their fundamental design was awful.

Plonking dozens of socially disadvantaged people, individuals with significant mental health issues, poverty stricken students and old age pensioners together in public housing flats is an awful model. This was a policy which was great for people who don't want social housing next door to them, but **** horrendous for any poor person forced to live in that environment.

I am surrounded by lower density public housing where I live. It's a perfectly good situation. However, there's no way I'd want to live anywhere near those flats, no matter how well they were maintained.

And for the record, I'd be very happy for Andrew Barr to be benched from the Chief Minister position, and for more independent representation make its way into the assembly.

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The multi storey apartment in Emu Ridge my cousin was moved to definitely ain’t any better than Bega flats and it has much worse access to services and indigenous support.

[Seiffert82]

To be fair, the public flats in the inner city suburbs were like slums. I've had relos and friends live in Bega Flats, Condamine Courts and Stuart Flats over the years. Horrendous stuff, glad they're gone.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

Do your friends and relatives think the ACT maintained Bega Flats well?

Or do they reckon the flats were purposefully not properly maintained to ensure the government could sell them off. I know what my cousin who lived there thinks.

I wouldn’t even go there to visit him after 2008 and I’m a pretty solid bloke.

No, they most definitely weren't maintained, but their fundamental design was awful.

Plonking dozens of socially disadvantaged people, individuals with significant mental health issues, poverty stricken students and old age pensioners together in public housing flats is an awful model. This was a policy which was great for people who don't want social housing next door to them, but **** horrendous for any poor person forced to live in that environment.

I am surrounded by lower density public housing where I live. It's a perfectly good situation. However, there's no way I'd want to live anywhere near those flats, no matter how well they were maintained.

And for the record, I'd be very happy for Andrew Barr to be benched from the Chief Minister position, and for more independent representation make its way into the assembly.

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The multi storey apartment in Emu Ridge my cousin was moved to definitely ain’t any better than Bega flats and it has much worse access to services and indigenous support.

That doesn't sound good at all.

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[gangrenous]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

Ahh. That could work. Or we could have a 50m high flyover? Or build the stadium 100m in the air? This is solid thinking.

Or what if we just build a teleportation station in Canberra city, then build out the rest of the city on Mars?

[reptar]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

Ahh. That could work. Or we could have a 50m high flyover? Or build the stadium 100m in the air? This is solid thinking.

Or what if we just build a teleportation station in Canberra city, then build out the rest of the city on Mars?

Does teleportation work at that distance?

[The Nickman]

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And maybe they'd be happy for a while
But February made me shiver
When every touring music act did dither
Bad news on the doorstep
I couldn't take one more step
I can't remember if I cried
When the life in some Belconnen music venue dried
But something touched me deep inside
The day the Canberra music scene died

Boy, the timing on that is way out

[-TW-]

Needs more cowbell

[gangrenous]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

Ahh. That could work. Or we could have a 50m high flyover? Or build the stadium 100m in the air? This is solid thinking.

Or what if we just build a teleportation station in Canberra city, then build out the rest of the city on Mars?

Does teleportation work at that distance?

I dunno. We’ll test it on the politicians first.

[reptar]

Why not both underground?

Start level 2 of Canberra 20m under

Ahh. That could work. Or we could have a 50m high flyover? Or build the stadium 100m in the air? This is solid thinking.

Or what if we just build a teleportation station in Canberra city, then build out the rest of the city on Mars?

Does teleportation work at that distance?

I dunno. We’ll test it on the politicians first.

Barnacle already seems off this planet.

[greeneyed]

Should the stadium re-route to Woden?

In the aftermath of ACT Chief Minister Andrew Barr's shock announcement the old Canberra Raiders HQ in Bruce was the preferred location for a new stadium, there's been plenty of Canberrans pushing Woden as the better venue. They point to Phillip Oval. It's close to the bars and restaurants of Woden, the shopping centre's parking was another positive, while it would also sit on the light rail route when it finally finds its way across the lake.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14329

[gerg]

Converting an AFL ground to a rectangle ground. Wishful thinking with Mr Barr in charge. Or do you mean the Philip grounds opposite the hospital. I was raising woden as an option a year or two back, I think it's a better option than Bruce or EPIC.

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[-TW-]

Phillip Enclosed is a terrible option, all that's around that area is residential and the hospital

Every event day would be an absolute pain in the **** for residents

[greeneyed]

Converting an AFL ground to a rectangle ground. Wishful thinking with Mr Barr in charge. Or do you mean the Philip grounds opposite the hospital. I was raising woden as an option a year or two back, I think it's a better option than Bruce or EPIC.

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Both are options, but the tram isn’t going to go past Phillip Enclosed (opposite the hospital). Phillip Oval is right on the line. That benefit is, of course, overstated.

The article concludes Woden isn’t a good option compared to Bruce. But for weak reasons in my view. Woden is quite central to the region’s population once you add in Queanbeyan. And it is suggested that people in Gungahlin won’t want to travel by tram to Phillip as they’ll have to change trams. But that’s true for any location other than Civic. People from the south and Gungahlin won’t want to change trams to get onto the Civic-Belconnen line. (That’s if the Civic-Belconnen line is ever built.)

[Bluesbrother]

Andrew Barr is all for the inner north and north of Canberra as he resides in that area. The ACT government is an absolute joke at the moment. Lack of investment in so many areas except for light rail to the **** of the universe - Gungahlin. Rates are going through the roof and none of it is going back into parks and recreation, maintaining trees and landscapes that make canberra such a beautiful place to live. I hope we see a change of government and a change in thinking ASAP.

[Raidernation]

There is this oval in the heart of manuka that barely gets used which would be a good spot for a stadium. Just saying.

[Billy Walker]

There is this oval in the heart of manuka that barely gets used which would be a good spot for a stadium. Just saying.

Barely gets used you say - AFL, Big Bash, International cricket (men’s and women’s). I’d imagine it host more fixtures annually than Bruce does.