2023 Rd 14 v Tigers: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[Shiv]

Tough day at the office for the "this narrative that Stuart doesnt rate Savage is stupid" crowd
Take a shower and wash that stink off, fellas.

And the "nursing back from a broken jaw" crowd. Hard to believe people fell for that

I thought we can wait until 2024 to see Sticky's real opinion of him. I don't think there's any need now, unfortunately

Yeah, I admit he’s not giving us much to work with. Give me a tic and I’ll come back with something clever.


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[Boomercm]

The reason that people keep coming up with explanations is that it makes no sense that Stuart doesn't rate him. He played him, he extended him. People will keep trying to fill in the gaps with something until it makes sense

[Botman]

The conversation at this point needs to turn towards who the fullback is that the club should target.
understanding they have Stewart in the pipeline but even if he's an absolute superstar, he's 3 years away. We need an interim option. Gutho might make a lot of sense if parra really are looking for something more

[Botman]

The reason that people keep coming up with explanations is that it makes no sense that Stuart doesn't rate him. He played him, he extended him. People will keep trying to fill in the gaps with something until it makes sense

Stuart signed and extended CHN too, doesnt play him despite EW trying to defend out on the edge in a zimmer frame.

[Seiffert82]

Tough day at the office for the "this narrative that Stuart doesnt rate Savage is stupid" crowd
Take a shower and wash that stink off, fellas.

He finished last year our first choice fullback when we had options. And Stuart extended him to end 2025, longer than most others. It still makes no sense that he doesn't rate his ability.

There has to be an explanation that we are unaware of. We need someone to grill Stuart in a presser and ask the question until we get an answer that makes sense.

Guaranteed not a single person here knows what is actually going on with Xavier Savage.

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[Seiffert82]

Tough day at the office for the "this narrative that Stuart doesnt rate Savage is stupid" crowd
Take a shower and wash that stink off, fellas.

Yep. Tough day indeed.

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[Sid]

Yet it was only August last year Savage was re-signed until end of 2025.
He’s really down the pecking order now

[Green_Hammock]

What is up with Savage? I heard he hasn't played well in Cup, but even still it seems obvious to give him a chance.

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[greeneyed]

I'm a big advocate for Savage, but I wouldn't pick him right now, based on his NSW Cup form. He's playing badly. Just why, I'm not sure. Perhaps its the lack of confidence being shown in him. Maybe it is something else. But he'll need to be playing better than he is to force his way in. HSS definitely playing better than him.

The other thing... he's been named 18th man, so he's not that far away in the coach's eyes.

[Greenev]

HSS has been playing better in cup, but at centre, rapana has to play fullback with HSS switching centre, there’s no way stick has gone this mad.

Really would of liked to see Puru in frawleys spot, or starlings preferably but that won’t happen.

I really hope we can start blooding our juniors instead of letting them waste away in cup, before they sign and become superstars…

[gerg]

A few years back after the soap dodgers failure we seemed to flip to prioritising junior development as our strategy. In the past few years we've managed to sign and develop some good young players but what message is this treatment of Savage sending to other promising young players and/or their managers - we'll sign you and develop you but then we won't give you a decent crack and we'll deliberately slow your development into an NRL level player.

And it's not just Savage either. Mooney's progression has been glacial, despite absolutely banging down the door in NSW cup and junior representative sides. What does he get? Rides the pine for 71 minutes, plays 9 and is then bumped back to cup to work on ****. At some point in time you've got to give them a decent go, otherwise they will go. And then **** Ricky and Don will start whinging about doing all the development for the Roosters etc.

Last year when CNK was injured, lacking confidence and generally not playing well, I remember Savage wasn't exactly playing lights out in cup but he came in and provided a spark. We were gone for all money last year and Ricky had no idea, and I mean zero idea of how to fix it. It was deer in the headlights stuff with his press conferences like a **** funeral.

He was left with no option but to give Woolford and Savage a chance. We all know deep down that Ricky's safe as coach but he looked a dead man walking. He looked on the verge of a **** stroke, but those two young blokes saved his **** and our season, and this is how he repays them. What a ****.

[Ruben Daley]

I'm a big advocate for Savage, but I wouldn't pick him right now, based on his NSW Cup form. He's playing badly. Just why, I'm not sure. Perhaps its the lack of confidence being shown in him. Maybe it is something else. But he'll need to be playing better than he is to force his way in. HSS definitely playing better than him.

The other thing... he's been named 18th man, so he's not that far away in the coach's eyes.

This is a good level-headed and informed post, GE.

I haven't seen much of ressies this year but I did see a lot of the Manly game the other week. Savage was largely absent but HSS made at least two unforced errors when we needed to gain momentum in the second half and otherwise just didn't look good. He got put into a hole towards the end of the game but didn't have the pace or skill to make anything of it - and then, when he realised he wasn't going anywhere, threw a hopeless pass to no one that went out.

I understand he may have shown more in other games but geez he had a lot of ground to make up to claw his way back from those games in first grade where he was literally the worst player on the field every single week. Savage did okay in his one stint but he was a billion light years ahead of HSS's first grade efforts.

[gangrenous]

The conversation at this point needs to turn towards who the fullback is that the club should target.
understanding they have Stewart in the pipeline but even if he's an absolute superstar, he's 3 years away. We need an interim option. Gutho might make a lot of sense if parra really are looking for something more

He’s 7 years away on the Ricky blooding timeline

[Canberra Milk]

A few years back after the soap dodgers failure we seemed to flip to prioritising junior development as our strategy. In the past few years we've managed to sign and develop some good young players but what message is this treatment of Savage sending to other promising young players and/or their managers - we'll sign you and develop you but then we won't give you a decent crack and we'll deliberately slow your development into an NRL level player.

And it's not just Savage either. Mooney's progression has been glacial, despite absolutely banging down the door in NSW cup and junior representative sides. What does he get? Rides the pine for 71 minutes, plays 9 and is then bumped back to cup to work on ****. At some point in time you've got to give them a decent go, otherwise they will go. And then **** Ricky and Don will start whinging about doing all the development for the Roosters etc.

Last year when CNK was injured, lacking confidence and generally not playing well, I remember Savage wasn't exactly playing lights out in cup but he came in and provided a spark. We were gone for all money last year and Ricky had no idea, and I mean zero idea of how to fix it. It was deer in the headlights stuff with his press conferences like a **** funeral.

He was left with no option but to give Woolford and Savage a chance. We all know deep down that Ricky's safe as coach but he looked a dead man walking. He looked on the verge of a **** stroke, but those two young blokes saved his **** and our season, and this is how he repays them. What a ****.

It's simply not a junior friendly club or coach. Stuart likes "real men". Brain biology dictates that doesn't eventuate until later. Stuart is happy to wait out that period and rely on the Levis and Whiteheads of the world in the interim. Even Kris and Timoko came along slowly. It If that's at odds with any junior-focused business strategy... he doesn't know or doesn't care

[Canberra Milk]

I'm a big advocate for Savage, but I wouldn't pick him right now, based on his NSW Cup form. He's playing badly. Just why, I'm not sure. Perhaps its the lack of confidence being shown in him. Maybe it is something else. But he'll need to be playing better than he is to force his way in. HSS definitely playing better than him.

The other thing... he's been named 18th man, so he's not that far away in the coach's eyes.

This is a good level-headed and informed post, GE.

I haven't seen much of ressies this year but I did see a lot of the Manly game the other week. Savage was largely absent but HSS made at least two unforced errors when we needed to gain momentum in the second half and otherwise just didn't look good. He got put into a hole towards the end of the game but didn't have the pace or skill to make anything of it - and then, when he realised he wasn't going anywhere, threw a hopeless pass to no one that went out.

I understand he may have shown more in other games but geez he had a lot of ground to make up to claw his way back from those games in first grade where he was literally the worst player on the field every single week. Savage did okay in his one stint but he was a billion light years ahead of HSS's first grade efforts.

But was he digging in, bleeding green, getting into the trenches, making the hard carries... because that's what counts

[InFernos_Raiders]

Hold on HSS at FB over Savage? We lose Kris put Savage at FB and HSS to play on the Wing. Also is Frawley on the bench? Seriously I have doubts with Stuarts team and bench selections.

[greeneyed]

HSS won’t play fullback. He will be wing with Rapa going to fullback. Or centre with Cotric going to wing.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Just got back from a boat trip so didn't have access to the internet for 5 hours. I'm shocked at the team selection. Really disappointed.

How can Savage be our 3rd in line fullback when:
- he was in the team last year on the way to the finals;
- Stuart let CNK go because Savage was playing first grade at the time, and didn't buy another FB as a backup;
- he was the starting FB during the trial, then broke his jaw, then played well on the wing v Canterbury - with more to his game such as hit ups and being stronger in the tackle;
- he has a 68% win rate with the first grade team when playing. He adds another focal point in attack. Plus our defence last year was way better than this year with him organising the defensive line and numbers;
- the guy who's replacing Kris is not a FB, and sucked in first grade when he played there earlier this year; and
- Rapana doesn't even want to play FB.

The guy can't even make the bench for a 28 year old who started his career in the NRL in 2017, but hasn't been able to nail down a FG spot.

[The Nickman]

Tough day at the office for the "this narrative that Stuart doesnt rate Savage is stupid" crowd
Take a shower and wash that stink off, fellas.

I still think the writing was on the wall when he picked Savage for that first trial. He literally NEVER picks first choice spine players in that first trial.

[NoMan]

A few years back after the soap dodgers failure we seemed to flip to prioritising junior development as our strategy. In the past few years we've managed to sign and develop some good young players but what message is this treatment of Savage sending to other promising young players and/or their managers - we'll sign you and develop you but then we won't give you a decent crack and we'll deliberately slow your development into an NRL level player.

And it's not just Savage either. Mooney's progression has been glacial, despite absolutely banging down the door in NSW cup and junior representative sides. What does he get? Rides the pine for 71 minutes, plays 9 and is then bumped back to cup to work on ****. At some point in time you've got to give them a decent go, otherwise they will go. And then **** Ricky and Don will start whinging about doing all the development for the Roosters etc.

Last year when CNK was injured, lacking confidence and generally not playing well, I remember Savage wasn't exactly playing lights out in cup but he came in and provided a spark. We were gone for all money last year and Ricky had no idea, and I mean zero idea of how to fix it. It was deer in the headlights stuff with his press conferences like a **** funeral.

He was left with no option but to give Woolford and Savage a chance. We all know deep down that Ricky's safe as coach but he looked a dead man walking. He looked on the verge of a **** stroke, but those two young blokes saved his **** and our season, and this is how he repays them. What a ****.

It's simply not a junior friendly club or coach. Stuart likes "real men". Brain biology dictates that doesn't eventuate until later. Stuart is happy to wait out that period and rely on the Levis and Whiteheads of the world in the interim. Even Kris and Timoko came along slowly. It If that's at odds with any junior-focused business strategy... he doesn't know or doesn't care

Timoko has been a regular starter since he was 20 and Kris since he was 21. How is this slow?

[Northern Raider]

Tough day at the office for the "this narrative that Stuart doesnt rate Savage is stupid" crowd
Take a shower and wash that stink off, fellas.

I still think the writing was on the wall when he picked Savage for that first trial. He literally NEVER picks first choice spine players in that first trial.

Then arranged for his jaw to get fractured so he didn't have to pick him to start the season. Very cunning from Stick.

[Regs Revolution]

The conspiracies around Savage are brilliant. I believe stick simply looks at it like this. IMO he rates Savage very highly and knows he is the future custodian. However, if we really think about it, what are his options this week.

Pick him, plays amazing. Then has to drop him next week? He ain’t playing next week. We all know that. So why destroy his confidence even more by playing him for one game.

Ricky knows that when he’s going to play him, he ain’t leaving the squad. So rather than bumping him in and out, wait for the time to get him in and keep him in.

I think the selection is the most obvious choice. We have 2 centres out, so bring in another player who can actually play the role. We don’t know if Hoppa can play it, Cotric certainly can’t which leaves us with nothing.

Rapana will end up at FB. HSS to centre. Hoppa to wing.

[The Ang]

I get not picking Savage to accomodate the influential toots. But the team picked for this weekend has raised a lot of eyebrows. What is going on?

Surely even a spot on the bench for a little speed and X factor over Frawley-who either won’t play a minute or play a 7 minute cameo.

[BadnMean]

I'm a big advocate for Savage, but I wouldn't pick him right now, based on his NSW Cup form. He's playing badly. Just why, I'm not sure. Perhaps its the lack of confidence being shown in him. Maybe it is something else. But he'll need to be playing better than he is to force his way in. HSS definitely playing better than him.

The other thing... he's been named 18th man, so he's not that far away in the coach's eyes.

This is a good level-headed and informed post, GE.

I haven't seen much of ressies this year but I did see a lot of the Manly game the other week. Savage was largely absent but HSS made at least two unforced errors when we needed to gain momentum in the second half and otherwise just didn't look good. He got put into a hole towards the end of the game but didn't have the pace or skill to make anything of it - and then, when he realised he wasn't going anywhere, threw a hopeless pass to no one that went out.

I understand he may have shown more in other games but geez he had a lot of ground to make up to claw his way back from those games in first grade where he was literally the worst player on the field every single week. Savage did okay in his one stint but he was a billion light years ahead of HSS's first grade efforts.

The bits of reggies I saw early in his comeback Xav looked ok- backing up, deadly on a break, organising defence. I gather his form has dropped a bit.

If you just look at pure numbers Smith SHields has posted a couple of 200m games, + is regularly up over 150m. Ricky is a "tough yards" man from his back 5. It seems to be almost his main criteria over and above most any other factor ( not knocking his theory, juts noting it). Main exception being JC who is ok at yards, but not a metre eater.

I can only think he just wants yards grinding out and the rest will sort itself out.

[BadnMean]

The conspiracies around Savage are brilliant. I believe stick simply looks at it like this. IMO he rates Savage very highly and knows he is the future custodian. However, if we really think about it, what are his options this week.

Pick him, plays amazing. Then has to drop him next week? He ain’t playing next week. We all know that. So why destroy his confidence even more by playing him for one game.

Ricky knows that when he’s going to play him, he ain’t leaving the squad. So rather than bumping him in and out, wait for the time to get him in and keep him in.

I think the selection is the most obvious choice. We have 2 centres out, so bring in another player who can actually play the role. We don’t know if Hoppa can play it, Cotric certainly can’t which leaves us with nothing.

Rapana will end up at FB. HSS to centre. Hoppa to wing.

Building the guys confidence but not picking him in FG even when there are umpteen outs in the back 5 is just as much knot tying as anything else.

How about "Xav you're close, I know what you can do. You'll get a chance to show it this week, but bear in mind the team has won 6 from 7 and near term I'll be sticking with the incumbents who have earned that right. Rip in, enjoy yourself, show us all what you can do and give me a real headache about who to pick". Wouldn't that be just as good at building his confidence + playing actual FG footy like everyone wants to?

The team with Xav makes just as much sense, Xav to FB, HSS to centre, Hoppa on wing, Rapana stays on wing. Actually makes more sense sense everyone is in their specialist position and Raps has publicly said he just can't handle FB these days. You've got to twist yourself in knots to actually justify not picking your best FB with the fill in FB out and a centre coming into the squad...

[Roger Kenworthy]

HSS is a battler. Hoping Cotric comes into the starting line up ahead of him, HSS to sit on the most bizarre bench seen in 30yrs.

Savage needs to start agitating asap with HSS rated ahead of him.

[Green Blogger]

I get that Savage has not looked good in reggies and I watched a game where he did three fifths of bugger all.

That said, in his one first grade game this year on the wing he looked a threat, scored a try and should have had a second but for a referee ruling Jack's falcon a knock on. It is also fair to say that Savage will always look better in first grade than reggies because one of his key strengths is backing up through the middle with pace where he feeds off Papali'i, Tapine and Red Hors offloads.

I always think that part of the assessment for picking a team is what selection causes greater concern for the opposition. News flash - it is not HSS!

[Seiffert82]

Last Reggies game I watched, Savage had a very ordinary game after which I happened to see him leave the ground with a couple of mates before first grade started. In and of itself that means nothing, but it adds to a picture of a few things you hear about him off the field.

Again, I want nothing more than to see him succeed in First Grade, but I do wonder if he's doing all he can to make that a reality.

I am also amused that many of the same people who extol the virtues of Craig Bellamy as a coach and the way he has his players ready to perform in First Grade are the same people who wonder why Savage isn't getting a crack. Maybe our own coach has actually set Xavier some targets which he is yet to achieve?

The fact is, not a single person here actually knows the full story.

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[gerg]

A few years back after the soap dodgers failure we seemed to flip to prioritising junior development as our strategy. In the past few years we've managed to sign and develop some good young players but what message is this treatment of Savage sending to other promising young players and/or their managers - we'll sign you and develop you but then we won't give you a decent crack and we'll deliberately slow your development into an NRL level player.

And it's not just Savage either. Mooney's progression has been glacial, despite absolutely banging down the door in NSW cup and junior representative sides. What does he get? Rides the pine for 71 minutes, plays 9 and is then bumped back to cup to work on ****. At some point in time you've got to give them a decent go, otherwise they will go. And then **** Ricky and Don will start whinging about doing all the development for the Roosters etc.

Last year when CNK was injured, lacking confidence and generally not playing well, I remember Savage wasn't exactly playing lights out in cup but he came in and provided a spark. We were gone for all money last year and Ricky had no idea, and I mean zero idea of how to fix it. It was deer in the headlights stuff with his press conferences like a **** funeral.

He was left with no option but to give Woolford and Savage a chance. We all know deep down that Ricky's safe as coach but he looked a dead man walking. He looked on the verge of a **** stroke, but those two young blokes saved his **** and our season, and this is how he repays them. What a ****.

It's simply not a junior friendly club or coach. Stuart likes "real men". Brain biology dictates that doesn't eventuate until later. Stuart is happy to wait out that period and rely on the Levis and Whiteheads of the world in the interim. Even Kris and Timoko came along slowly. It If that's at odds with any junior-focused business strategy... he doesn't know or doesn't care

Timoko has been a regular starter since he was 20 and Kris since he was 21. How is this slow?

He certainly has his favourites. But something like what Seif mentions is probably not going down well at any club. I imagine that some coaches would probably sit him down and tell him straight up that part of being an NRL player is getting that sort of off-field stuff right, others would let him work it out for himself.

[Bulldog]

So what the hell was the point of Savage learning his craft last season? All the errors we had to suffer through were for nothing….

If you recall, Stuart was reluctant to bring Savage up to first grade last year despite everyone screaming 'X' factor. Give me a break. Nothing I've seen of Savage so far makes me doubt Stuart's decision making. Kris is doing great at FB. Lets keep him there.

[Bulldog]

I haven't read the whole thread, but can't believe we would pick Frawley again, in any position. Reggies were unbeatable while he was out and I don't think they have won a game since his return.

If you want a half on the bench for some reason, pick Schneider. He's clearly going better in Reggies anyway.

Frawley is a far better 5/8 than Wighton could ever be. This is not taking anything away from Schneider whom I rate highly. But Frawley provides the Coach with a lot of flexibility from the bench. He won't be warming the bench for 80 minutes like some suggest. Stuart will have him out there, don't doubt that. This is going to be an exciting game.

[The Nickman]

I'm intrigued to see how Frawley is going to be used although I'll be stunned if he plays more than 10 minutes barring an injury to a back.

[kiwi raider]

I'm intrigued to see how Frawley is going to be used although I'll be stunned if he plays more than 10 minutes barring an injury to a back.

I reckon he's only there in case we lose an edge back rower, in That case Frawley to 5/8, wighton to backrow. i don't think he'll get on at all without injuries

[Roger Kenworthy]

I'm intrigued to see how Frawley is going to be used although I'll be stunned if he plays more than 10 minutes barring an injury to a back.

Fingers crossed for the 3 hooker rotation. Woolford to start, Starling on at 30. Frawley on at 50. Wrestle on the sideline at 70 to see who plays the last 10.

[Azza]

I'm intrigued to see how Frawley is going to be used although I'll be stunned if he plays more than 10 minutes barring an injury to a back.

Fingers crossed for the 3 hooker rotation. Woolford to start, Starling on at 30. Frawley on at 50. Wrestle on the sideline at 70 to see who plays the last 10.

That would probably be our most strategic approach to a game in awhile.