2023 Rd 10 v Bulldogs: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[Finchy]

Unless he was the photographer, CHN is the only player not in this team photo from last week. It was prophetic!

[greeneyed]

There's got to be something silly off field that's happened. CHN has added something everytime he's come off the bench.
Saulo definitely should have been the one to make way.

He’s played about 60 minutes of football since April 2. Stuart has done it before where he’s dropped a bench forward who doesn’t get many minutes simply to get them some game time
That would be my bet

I didn't see him named in reserve grade so how is he going to get his minutes up? Or can that change?

I think it can change... as the sqaud gets chopped down from the 22 they can drop back... i would expect that unless the plan is for him to be 18th man, even if im wrong about the minutes thing and he's just been dropped for other reasons (which is more than possible, it's probably more likely than my speculation) i would expect he'd be a late inclusion for NSW cup given his lack of game time of late. It would be pretty absurd to not play him anywhere for the week all things considered.

I mean we flat out havent even named a fullback this week for NSW Cup, the rules seem pretty relaxed for TLT

The only rules for NSW Cup are that they must name a team on Tuesday (the Raiders regularly fail to name full teams in lower grades, and the NSWRL doesn’t seem to take any action)… and then they must name a final team one hour before. Can bring any eligible player into your team in the final lineup. But that final lineup can’t change.

[julian87]

I know CHN isn’t the second coming but he hasn’t exactly has many favors thrown his way in Canberra. Forced to play in and out of positions.

Has played intermittently outside one of the worst ball playing halves in the comp since the start of last season. And outside Williams playing right side halfback despite only ever playing left side second fiddle for his entire career before that.

I know defense is an issue but the competition is hardly excelling or has been post ‘19. Why sign and then re-sign a player to treat them as such.

[Botman]

We pick and choose around here who we get the pitch forks out on defensive issues

I have pointed out a few times how some of Kris's defensive efforts have been brushed over by posters who would HOUND Savage for his defensive woes. Despite Kris being far bigger and more physical and battle tested. And that's not just at fullback, Seb's had some problems at centre too.

And the same is true of CHN... Hudson Young has some of the most appalling defensive errors and efforts that you'll see on a footy field. Just had one this past weekend. They're not one offs, they're pretty frequent.
Whitehead flat out has not been up to NRL footy for 2 years. Defensively he's been a complete liability and the worst edge defender in this sqaud for quite some time.

as i said, it's all moot. It is what it is with this coach and the truly baffling thing is this... forget anyone on this forum thinks... as Julian and others have said... why the **** did the club re-sign him if this is how the Coach thinks? If you think so little of him why is was he retained?

And to the point of this thread... i dont really care that CHN was dropped or the reasons why. I've come to terms with how Stuart views him. But you can not go into an NRL game in 2023 with a bench of 3x rigid middles and out and out hooker... you have 5 backline players, 2 halves and 2 edge fowards... 9 of 13 starters and if a **** single one of them gets hurt or has to go off for a HIA, you havent got anything CLOSE to a reasonable answer on the bench for them. It's... i mean it's negligent, and it's idiotic. Like you cant tell me you're a serious NRL coach and do that.

We've got a few days and maybe the squad will change and this rant will look premature and silly. But man... Stuart just isnt it.

[zim]

Hmm is CHN marrying Hoppas sister?

[Neeeegz]

Hmm is CHN marrying Hoppas sister?

[zim]

Actually if reddit is to be believed CHN has a medical issue. Can't link to anything official sorry.

[-TW-]

Very odd

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[Billy Walker]

Very odd

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Indeed

[Raider47]

Regardless of whether or not CHN is injured or not, having 5 props, plus Horsburgh is dumb as dog ****.

Horsburgh is at his best when playing massive minutes.

For the sake of the team Papalii and Tapine need to be playing 50-60 mins.

Where does that leave the other 3 middles? Just mindboggling.

Get rid of Guler for CHN or at least Mooney/Schiller.

[Wiki Special]

Botman is 100% spot on regarding the bench. In todays HIA world of NRL football we will be absolutely in a world of hurt if Rapana or Croker, etc. has to go off for a HIA. We'd be better off with Schiller in the 17 if CHN is out. Even if he doesn't play a minute and we play 16 that is a better option.

[dubby]

CHN has a tendency to turn his back defensively. He leaves himself open.

He's dangerous ball in hand, but dangerous for us defensively

Is he really thay dangerous with ball in hand? Typically only takes 5 or 6 runs when he's playing big minutes. Even if he is dangerous the lack of workload means the defence isn't being drawn into making an over read.

Been saying it for a long time - CHN has been a complete dud signing.

It was my polite way of saying he's better in attack than defending

[Botman]

Think about our back 5 and edges right now:

- Kris: Very physical player. Runs straight and hard. Feels like he's frequently involved in heavy contact. But he's a tough kid so he's mostly ok. Solid risk
- Savage: The biggest issue with him imo is that almost every game he's at some point hobbling around. You can help a stray knee collecting your jaw and breaking it, but there is no question durability is a concern.
- Croker: Being held together with duct tape at this point. An injury wouldnt shock anyone at this stage of his career.
- Timoko: Like Kris, tough kid who plays very physical. There are inherent risks with that
- Rapana: Absolute mad man, injury, HIA or sin bin potential is as high as you can get on a player
- Young: Another guy who's a bit firey. Not quite peak Rapana but has been known to mix it up a little. Probabaly not a huge risk these days, he's managed himself much better of late.
- Whitehead: Old and broken down and like Croker at any point an injury is on the cards.

And if a single **** one of them needs to leave the park... we've got to have Hors, Tapine or Starling/Woolford defend as a centre/backrower.

Again, if that's what you're doing in 2023, get the **** out. You're not serious. You have no business coaching at this level.

[Boomercm]

Mooney couldn't play on the edge in reserve grade 10kgs ago. He's less mobile than Mariota.

I think Schneider is probably the one they should have on the bench. He covers the halves and Jack can go wider as required.

[Botman]

Mooney couldn't play on the edge in reserve grade 10kgs ago. He's less mobile than Mariota.

I think Schneider is probably the one they should have on the bench. He covers the halves and Jack can go wider as required.

At least he's played there! He's defended in space recently and actually had to play the position. The club spent considerable time playing him there to help maintain some mobility. And i couldnt disagree more, Ata's laterally mobility is pretty poor. Mooney has him covered, by some margin imo.
Ata has probably never defendend a modern day backline play in his life. He'll be out there looking like he's born on Wednesday looking both ways for the weekend!

Guler? Sualo? None of these guys will be able to defend on the edge. None. Not one. Hors is the best edge answer and **** me... that's grim.

I dont mind the Schneider suggestion. You can at least trust him to defend the position at centre or back row if asked to do it. He doesnt kill you defensively.

[Finchy]

Think about our back 5 and edges right now:

- Kris: Very physical player. Runs straight and hard. Feels like he's frequently involved in heavy contact. But he's a tough kid so he's mostly ok. Solid risk
- Savage: The biggest issue with him imo is that almost every game he's at some point hobbling around. You can help a stray knee collecting your jaw and breaking it, but there is no question durability is a concern.
- Croker: Being held together with duct tape at this point. An injury wouldnt shock anyone at this stage of his career.
- Timoko: Like Kris, tough kid who plays very physical. There are inherent risks with that
- Rapana: Absolute mad man, injury, HIA or sin bin potential is as high as you can get on a player
- Young: Another guy who's a bit firey. Not quite peak Rapana but has been known to mix it up a little. Probabaly not a huge risk these days, he's managed himself much better of late.
- Whitehead: Old and broken down and like Croker at any point an injury is on the cards.

And if a single **** one of them needs to leave the park... we've got to have Hors, Tapine or Starling/Woolford defend as a centre/backrower.

Again, if that's what you're doing in 2023, get the **** out. You're not serious. You have no business coaching at this level.

It scares me how much random punters on an internet forum can see such issues, but a million dollar coach who’s played and coached at all levels for the past 30 odd years and his entire coaching staff cannot. It’s actually mind boggling

[BJ]

The only potential injury I’ve seen to CHN is lifting too many dumplings at the CBD Dumpling House.

[-TW-]

The only potential injury I’ve seen to CHN is lifting too many dumplings at the CBD Dumpling House.

One of us, one of us

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[Shiv]

so, ask the question the other way. Given Stuart is not an idiot, and that the people around are also experts, What are they seeing we aren't? What are risks are they mitigating that we can't see.
I am with the majority and often find the interchange and bench usage incredibly puzzling, bizarre and downright painful - but they must be working to some sort of plan. So, you oh so clever people - turn your cunning footy minds to this riddle - if you were Stuart and you picked this team and bench - WHY did you do it?

Oh and as an entirely separate thought bubble - I reckon 50/50 chance, Savage gets dropped and Schiller comes in.... (maybe Savage gets a tummy bug or something)

[Botman]

The easiest answer has already been provided
He's looking at a back 5 that includes Savage and Croker and think he'll need to rotate his middle forwards more to ensure to stay in the grind, and that's plan a and as per usually there isnt a **** plan b... if we suffer injuries or something odd happens, he gets to rock up to the presser and bemoan our lack of luck and the bounce of the **** ball.

[Billy Walker]

Think about our back 5 and edges right now:

- Kris: Very physical player. Runs straight and hard. Feels like he's frequently involved in heavy contact. But he's a tough kid so he's mostly ok. Solid risk
- Savage: The biggest issue with him imo is that almost every game he's at some point hobbling around. You can help a stray knee collecting your jaw and breaking it, but there is no question durability is a concern.
- Croker: Being held together with duct tape at this point. An injury wouldnt shock anyone at this stage of his career.
- Timoko: Like Kris, tough kid who plays very physical. There are inherent risks with that
- Rapana: Absolute mad man, injury, HIA or sin bin potential is as high as you can get on a player
- Young: Another guy who's a bit firey. Not quite peak Rapana but has been known to mix it up a little. Probabaly not a huge risk these days, he's managed himself much better of late.
- Whitehead: Old and broken down and like Croker at any point an injury is on the cards.

And if a single **** one of them needs to leave the park... we've got to have Hors, Tapine or Starling/Woolford defend as a centre/backrower.

Again, if that's what you're doing in 2023, get the **** out. You're not serious. You have no business coaching at this level.

It scares me how much random punters on an internet forum can see such issues, but a million dollar coach who’s played and coached at all levels for the past 30 odd years and his entire coaching staff cannot. It’s actually mind boggling

Don’t be scared Finchy, maybe leave a light on when you watch games big fella…

[HoraceBigCigar]

Could this be why Sticky named a prop-heavy bench? He thinks the back 5 are a bit light for hitups with both Savage and Croker?

Maybe.
I'd honestly think Kris, Rapa, Timoko is enough there becaue props generally don't get back for hit ups 1-3 these days.

I think prop heavy bench is just Ricky being Ricky. He's done it umpteen times before.

My "reactive Ricky" note is that he'll do that "until" it bites him on the ass and we lose a game or two with Whitehead or whoever at centre in the crunch.

He plays forwards "until" they make the fatigue error. Then makes the change.

Etc.

Stickman coaching proactively rather than reactively? Surely you jest

Rule no.1: only make a change if you absolutely have to because some “unfair” circumstances forced you do it.

[HoraceBigCigar]

Think about our back 5 and edges right now:

- Kris: Very physical player. Runs straight and hard. Feels like he's frequently involved in heavy contact. But he's a tough kid so he's mostly ok. Solid risk
- Savage: The biggest issue with him imo is that almost every game he's at some point hobbling around. You can help a stray knee collecting your jaw and breaking it, but there is no question durability is a concern.
- Croker: Being held together with duct tape at this point. An injury wouldnt shock anyone at this stage of his career.
- Timoko: Like Kris, tough kid who plays very physical. There are inherent risks with that
- Rapana: Absolute mad man, injury, HIA or sin bin potential is as high as you can get on a player
- Young: Another guy who's a bit firey. Not quite peak Rapana but has been known to mix it up a little. Probabaly not a huge risk these days, he's managed himself much better of late.
- Whitehead: Old and broken down and like Croker at any point an injury is on the cards.

And if a single **** one of them needs to leave the park... we've got to have Hors, Tapine or Starling/Woolford defend as a centre/backrower.

Again, if that's what you're doing in 2023, get the **** out. You're not serious. You have no business coaching at this level.

It scares me how much random punters on an internet forum can see such issues, but a million dollar coach who’s played and coached at all levels for the past 30 odd years and his entire coaching staff cannot. It’s actually mind boggling

Not only does he pick a bench full of props, he doesn’t even use them. (Countless cases of players getting close to no minutes). OK so you’ve decided a 17 man team isn’t how loigue should be played an we only need or 16. That being the case can’t you AT LEAST include a cover position for the backs? Worst case scenario he doesn’t get used (just like the extra prop). Honestly, I know statistics and footy are a world apart for the geniuses in our coaching team but how can such “simple % plays” be beyond us?

[Coastalraider]

The easiest answer has already been provided
He's looking at a back 5 that includes Savage and Croker and think he'll need to rotate his middle forwards more to ensure to stay in the grind, and that's plan a and as per usually there isnt a **** plan b... if we suffer injuries or something odd happens, he gets to rock up to the presser and bemoan our lack of luck and the bounce of the **** ball.

And given the fact that he has been reducing Taps minutes recently when he has clearly shown ability to play 60+ gives him that option anyway WITHOUT having to fill a bench with low impact middlemen.

These periodic love affairs with concepts that stick goes through are maddening. There is one simple metric that would indicate Horse should be playing 70 odd minutes and Taps 45 - bleeding green. Every other relevant metric says taps should be playing more. And yet….

Also if you look at the cattle this week, and Smelly being in year 2 of his attempts to prove he is no longer an edge player, it’s a reasonable argument to say that we have actually picked 7 middle forwards this week, and only Huddo as a genuine 2023 level edge.

[Botman]

Yep that’s a fair call…
Look maybe this is all just mid week panic and come cut downs some more versatile option is kept and ends up playing. And we can all look back at these posts and have a good chuckle

But if he goes in 1-17… man that’s tough not to be extremely critical of. Shows such a lack of understanding about the game you’re coaching at the highest level

[Roger Kenworthy]

Think about our back 5 and edges right now:

- Kris: Very physical player. Runs straight and hard. Feels like he's frequently involved in heavy contact. But he's a tough kid so he's mostly ok. Solid risk
- Savage: The biggest issue with him imo is that almost every game he's at some point hobbling around. You can help a stray knee collecting your jaw and breaking it, but there is no question durability is a concern.
- Croker: Being held together with duct tape at this point. An injury wouldnt shock anyone at this stage of his career.
- Timoko: Like Kris, tough kid who plays very physical. There are inherent risks with that
- Rapana: Absolute mad man, injury, HIA or sin bin potential is as high as you can get on a player
- Young: Another guy who's a bit firey. Not quite peak Rapana but has been known to mix it up a little. Probabaly not a huge risk these days, he's managed himself much better of late.
- Whitehead: Old and broken down and like Croker at any point an injury is on the cards.

And if a single **** one of them needs to leave the park... we've got to have Hors, Tapine or Starling/Woolford defend as a centre/backrower.

Again, if that's what you're doing in 2023, get the **** out. You're not serious. You have no business coaching at this level.

Kris and Timoko seem to have the right body types and are smart about riding contact. Compare them to Joey Leilua who was another mad man and would just run full throttle directly at his opposition. Joey had a bigger frame than Kris and Timoko which allowed him to remain durable.

[Seiffert82]

Stuart's use of the bench has always been appalling. Before and during the game.

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[Shiv]

Hmm. I still think we aren’t thinking like Ricky.
All the things you say are correct- but he knows them as does his people.

I agree it’s mystifying bench use at the best of times- but he still has a plan.


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[bonehead]

yeah crashballs for days.

I sat pondering last week if Ata could play on the edge

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[Botman]

I agree it’s mystifying bench use at the best of times- but he still has a plan.

I've seen no evidence that any real plan exists.

[Shiv]

Ah. You are so cynical sir.

He absolutely has a plan. No idea what it is. But there is a plan.

We throw rocks and arrows at him because we can’t see his plan, and criticise for not following our greenhouse group think plan.

Again. Not disagreeing with your views. But there is a plan there. And I feel if we could get away from criticising him for not following our “plan” and could instead genuinely understand what Ricky’s plan is, we would have a better insight into his head for not just this week but for next week as well.

So I pose the question again, if you were Ricky and this team list. What is your plan.
You’re not an idiot, you know the risks with this team, so what is your plan?


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[pacman]

yeah crashballs for days.

if that's not the master of master plans, i don't know what is

[dubby]

This is going to be an intense game

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[Botman]

I'm not being cynical. I genuinely have not seen any evidence about any actual plan re: his bench usage
The man runs its like a clock unless injury forces a change... there is no adjustment to the game flow, not attempt to influence the game with interchange use. There is no strategy that changes week to week pending the opposition. He just had this template that runs and has run for years and that's that.

My plan, with this interchange... it to... not have this interchange because i think its idiotic and negligent.

If you're seriously asking for me to devise a plan with that bench...

Step 1: I would talk to Timoko and say we need more from him this week on early sets. Ask him to put some extra effort into getting back behind the ball on tackles 1-2-3 to support Kris and Rapana a bit more.

Step 2: I would say where possible Rapana and Kris should take the kick return, even if Savage fields a kick, get it to those blokes if he can safely do so. Let them do take the first carry and have Savage focus on the next play where he can use his speed to get away from markers and chew up ground, on long kicks that defensive line on the second carry is often passive, so his speed works better and those hits tend to be less physical than the kick returns when they can isolate someone and pile numbers into tackles.

Step 3: From an in game perspective. I'm mindful that at some point i am likely to need to put a middle third defender out wide and i think it has to be Hors and i'm going to have to prioritise getting him some rest in game in case he has to go and play out in space. How we do that?

All you can have is a rough plan, because you need to go off game feel and HIA's and injury... if Papa is killing it and tell you he's feeling good and we're on top, you have to give him the extra 5-10 minutes and go with that game flow. Likewise if Ata is struggling, you have to adjust. if you have to blow an interchange early because Tapine has a HIA, the whole plan it cactus.
The very problem Stuart he does this very thing. Feels like he has a template plan of how he works interchanges and he sticks as rigidly to it as he can no matter what.

Step 4: Hope and pray to the football gods that no one in the 1-7 or 11-12 (70% of the starting line up for those counting at home) get hurt or need to leave the field for a HIA
But as they say, hope is not a plan. This is not a plan. It's injury/hia roulette and hope we get lucky.

[Raiders666]

There was a time when he used to carry a back on the bench...It's weird he has gone away from it considering the way the game has gone with concussion.