Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
So when spencer lenui comes here he will be good? He’s playing with a good pack, and good halves who can control the game…. They have good defensive systems at Penrith, can be cocky but they play as a team that’s what we are yet to do, if we do it’s only in patches.
IMO Tapine is worth every cent, like Papa in recent years he has basically carried the team this year…. It’s bad business keeping croker and whitehead in the team…. Sure JC needs to get to 300 games and is a club legend but we need to do what is best for the team right now…. And losing one of the current form premier forwards to another team is going further backwards….
"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had"!! RAIDERSTILLIDIE!!
With these longer contracts for ageing players, I wonder whether we could see a move toward NFL style contracts that are heavy on KPI bonuses (games played, performance, etc).
The idea would be to offer a lower base rate than market value, but ends up a bit higher than market value if all the KPI's get hit.
PS - I think Spencer Leinu is really good as a 30min impact player. Lots of impact. But it's unclear whether he has the motor to go 55 mins (I would guess maybe not - because if he can't step up and do that in their dominant system when they need to cover injuries - he probably can't do it. Unless they specifically train him for that role...).
Boomercm wrote: ↑August 18, 2022, 8:11 pm
PS - I think Spencer Leinu is really good as a 30min impact player. Lots of impact. But it's unclear whether he has the motor to go 55 mins (I would guess maybe not - because if he can't step up and do that in their dominant system when they need to cover injuries - he probably can't do it. Unless they specifically train him for that role...).
If he did, the Panthers would have tried it by now. I think you'll get 45 out of him as a starter in 2 stints, or 30-35 off the pine.
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Boomercm wrote: ↑August 18, 2022, 8:11 pm
PS - I think Spencer Leinu is really good as a 30min impact player. Lots of impact. But it's unclear whether he has the motor to go 55 mins (I would guess maybe not - because if he can't step up and do that in their dominant system when they need to cover injuries - he probably can't do it. Unless they specifically train him for that role...).
If he did, the Panthers would have tried it by now. I think you'll get 45 out of him as a starter in 2 stints, or 30-35 off the pine.
He's only 21. So his aerobic capacity and cardio should still be improving year on year for a while yet.
Be happy if we got hold of him.
Still think we need a lock or edge though (depending where we start to play Mooney).
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
I’ve heard he is coming.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Source?
I know people inside the club.
I usually keep stuff to myself, but anyway agreed to term is the saying, which doesn’t make it official I guess
Im guessing by the way he handled the press conference yesterday is that he ready to be a leader at the club. Prime age and a 3 or 4 year deal on decent money to retain him makes sens IMO.
What decent money is? I dont know.
Medically retiring Croker might help too. No point carrying him in the cap anymore. Hppefully medical retirement could be an option.
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
I’ve heard he is coming.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Awesome hope your right , Taps , Papa, Lenui , Horse , that will be my four prop rotation
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
I’ve heard he is coming.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Source?
I know people inside the club.
I usually keep stuff to myself, but anyway agreed to term is the saying, which doesn’t make it official I guess
Bluesbrother wrote: ↑August 12, 2022, 3:59 pm
We have overpaid him every year he has been here. This just continues that trend. I'd like to think we could pay less that 800k for a front rower. I'd rather take spencer lenui on 4-500k and save a bit here. Tapine is good but he has only had 1 season (this year) where he has performed to his price tag. He should stay for less that 800k over 4 years. It's bad business if that's what is being offered.
Can we still get spencer lenui?? Think he would be great , no sutton and now no rushton , hopefully we can get him
I’ve heard he is coming.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Source?
I know people inside the club.
I usually keep stuff to myself, but anyway agreed to term is the saying, which doesn’t make it official I guess
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If lenui is coming does that mean we miss out on Taps?
"Learn to appreciate what you have, before time makes you appreciate what you had"!! RAIDERSTILLIDIE!!
Doubt it. Ricky loves Taps and will get it done - whatever the price. An indication is him joining him in the press conference and not Jack, when Whitehead wasn't available (unexplained and no journalist asked why - I wish Canberra Times' journalism is a bit better). Leniu is probably recruited to replace Sutton who is a regular FG and we also lost Rushton. On bigger money. Mooney can do Adam Elliott's job.
I like Leniu as he has the go forward and leg drive. I think he would combine well with Papa, Taps and Horse.
I thought Horsburgh played the 13, link role pretty well yesterday. Also loved the instant uptick in aggression that he brought too. That incident where he was penalised was the most ridiculous call in a while.
gergreg wrote:I thought Horsburgh played the 13, link role pretty well yesterday. Also loved the instant uptick in aggression that he brought too. That incident where he was penalised was the most ridiculous call in a while.
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Yeah, good observation. I thought he actually did quite a good job in the 13 too. He has the skillset to make a go of that role, maybe not the motor for 80 minutes, but he ticks a lot of boxes.
His work as a link man was mostly small tip on plays to other forwards around the middle of the ruck
It wasn’t a lot of the classic Yeo stuff where he’s getting it first receiver and distributing to the primary half and providing width in the passing game
Which is not to deminish that skill. A little ball movement around the middles is a really good way to isolate defenders, push through the line, create quick play the balls and second phase
And I agree hors played and has played that role well at times. But that’s not really what I think about when I think of a modern day #13
Last edited by Botman on August 22, 2022, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hong Kong Raider wrote: ↑August 22, 2022, 6:44 pm
Exactly. He and Guler passed very well, but weren't link men. They were more like the Des Hasler 2012 forward plays.
The game against the knights you are right, but I've been saying for a while now Horsburgh has the best link/long passing game of any of our forwards , Which isn't hard considering none are really natural ball players apart from Whitehead who isn't what he used to be. But Horsburgh has some skill in that regard, still needs a bit of fine tuning in terms of timing and engaging defenders but he is quite good in getting quick ball to the edges, certainly better than the likes of Sutton, Elliott and even our bigger name middles at that aspect
Hong Kong Raider wrote: ↑August 22, 2022, 6:44 pm
Exactly. He and Guler passed very well, but weren't link men. They were more like the Des Hasler 2012 forward plays.
The game against the knights you are right, but I've been saying for a while now Horsburgh has the best link/long passing game of any of our forwards , Which isn't hard considering none are really natural ball players apart from Whitehead who isn't what he used to be. But Horsburgh has some skill in that regard, still needs a bit of fine tuning in terms of timing and engaging defenders but he is quite good in getting quick ball to the edges, certainly better than the likes of Sutton, Elliott and even our bigger name middles at that aspect
I think you are right with Horse compared to the other forwards; I recall the penultimate game v Warriors last year when he threw a great long pass to Rapana from memory
I dont think he's suited to a modern lock forward role. He's made huge leaps forward this year and established himself as a good mobile middle third front rower with a little added skill. For me, i'd rather give him clear direction on that being his role and let him continue to grow, rather than ask too much of him.
We ask too much of him IMO, if we ask him to be a ball distributing lock.
Botman wrote: ↑August 22, 2022, 8:56 pm
I dont think he's suited to a modern lock forward role. He's made huge leaps forward this year and established himself as a good mobile middle third front rower with a little added skill. For me, i'd rather give him clear direction on that being his role and let him continue to grow, rather than ask too much of him.
We ask too much of him IMO, if we ask him to be a ball distributing lock.
Yea I think you are right, prop who can pass is probably his role. Not sure he is quite mobile or quick enough to keep defenders guessing as a lock
Hong Kong Raider wrote: ↑August 22, 2022, 6:44 pm
Exactly. He and Guler passed very well, but weren't link men. They were more like the Des Hasler 2012 forward plays.
The game against the knights you are right, but I've been saying for a while now Horsburgh has the best link/long passing game of any of our forwards , Which isn't hard considering none are really natural ball players apart from Whitehead who isn't what he used to be. But Horsburgh has some skill in that regard, still needs a bit of fine tuning in terms of timing and engaging defenders but he is quite good in getting quick ball to the edges, certainly better than the likes of Sutton, Elliott and even our bigger name middles at that aspect
I think you are right with Horse compared to the other forwards; I recall the penultimate game v Warriors last year when he threw a great long pass to Rapana from memory
It was one of the worst passes I’ve seen, and should have been dropped. Luckily for Horse it wasn’t, and the match winning try resulted. Was still a weak gutted dog of a pass though.
I’m being dramatic of course, but it wasn’t a great long ball.
2:34 in. Commentator says: “Not a great pass, Young did well (to catch it)”.
You joking right Finchy? It was his pass that created the width to get outside 3 Warriors defenders, they were short on their right. And the pass hit Young in the belly. There was nothing wrong with that pass. Judge by what you see, not from what a third party tells you
Hong Kong Raider wrote: ↑August 23, 2022, 2:00 am
You joking right Finchy? It was his pass that created the width to get outside 3 Warriors defenders, they were short on their right. And the pass hit Young in the belly. There was nothing wrong with that pass. Judge by what you see, not from what a third party tells you
Look I'm being harsh. He did well to get it out wide. It got passed two more times after that and ended in a match winning try. But it wasn't a great pass from a technical point of view. The thing had the death wobbles, spinning horribly. Hudson had to bend down and caught it around his quads/groin area. If he was standing upright it hits his legs. Ideally the pass should be out in front of his chest.
the pass wasn't perfect but it was good enough, the fact he got it wide quick when defenders were probably expecting big red to just tuck it under the arm is what created the opportunity
There's been plenty of commentary about the limitations and mentality of both Hors and Young on this forum, much of which has proven to be quite wrong.
For some reason, if you don't play exactly like Isaah Yeo there are question marks about your capability as a ball playing lock. There's absolutely nothing supernatural about the way Yeo plays. He's got a good passing game and he plays an influential role in a highly talented team.
What I do know is that Isaah Yeo doesn't play exactly like Isaiah Yeo did 3-4 years ago. He just didn't, and was nowhere near as influential as he is today. Players evolve if given the chance.
I'd love to see Mooney given a crack at 13, but at the moment Horsburgh absolutely has the skillset to develop into that type of distributor, with a really powerful running game.
Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑August 23, 2022, 3:22 pm
So good that a thread about Tapine has turned into Zapruder film level analysis of a pass by Corey Horsburgh from 12 months ago.
