Manly Sea Eagles 2022

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Boomercm
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

Raider Azz wrote: July 26, 2022, 9:06 pm
Boomercm wrote:I was in a couple of atheist societies in my university days. Had many beers with like-minded folk and campaigned pretty hard against the political influence of religious groups.

And at every one of our meetings we invited folk from the Christian groups. And at just about every meeting one or two of them were good enough to come along and join selected pats of the discussions. And these were often the best parts.

It is sad to see what has eventuated from the sort of groups I belonged to. An intellectually lazy bunch of zealots with nothing more to add than calling religious folk paedophiles and nazis. Folk very content to pat themselves on the back for being be the bigger bigot.
Stop pretending you're the reasonable one because people don't want to debate you over whether a group of people deserve the same rights as everybody else. There's nothing more to talk about. Progress will happen whether you like it or not. We don't need to "come together" on human rights.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... guess what, it might actually be a duck!

Already heard "virtue signalling" in this thread and now you've just pulled out "calling me a bigot makes you the bigot"
Where's my reactionary bingo card!?

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newsflash. Working is right. Fair pay is a right. Not being abused or generally discriminated against is a right.

Everyone wearing your shirt and having a weekend set aside to celebrate you is not a right
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gangrenous
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Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by gangrenous »

Boomercm wrote: newsflash […] Not being abused or generally discriminated against is a right.

Everyone wearing your shirt and having a weekend set aside to celebrate you is not a right
Newsflash - if the right you described was occurring then the latter wouldn’t be needed (and you wouldn’t have this boycott of it).
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Seiffert82
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Seiffert82 »

gangrenous wrote:That there’s got to be an investigation!
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Boomercm
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

gangrenous wrote: July 31, 2022, 7:45 am
Boomercm wrote: newsflash […] Not being abused or generally discriminated against is a right.

Everyone wearing your shirt and having a weekend set aside to celebrate you is not a right
Newsflash - if the right you described was occurring then the latter wouldn’t be needed (and you wouldn’t have this boycott of it).
You should read this old (2014) essay. Despite being a bit outdated in terms of the names used, it is a cracker for anyone dabbling in these sorts of issues.

Re-reading it today reminded me that I need to keep working on my tolerance (of the blue tribe). FWIW, I'm clearly grey tribe.


https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/ ... e-Outgroup
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gangrenous
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by gangrenous »

How about you give me the two paragraph summary and we skip faster to the bit where I point out you’re wallowing in Bull?
Boomercm
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Boomercm »

Impossible in two paragraphs. But here's the short version:

Intro

There is an odd change in the western world over the last 50 years or so which seems to go against almost everything we know about social psychology. On the surface people appear to be criticizing their ingroups (e.g., white people criticising white males), and being very supportive of their outgroups (e.g., name your minority). Taken at face value this appears to be very virtuous. The essay explores this change.
--------------
Arguments
[1] Forgiveness and tolerance are similar. You don't get Virtue points for forgiving something you don't care about. Likewise you don't get Virtue points for tolerating people you have nothing against.

[2] You can define tolerance as something like "respect and kindness shown toward people from an outgroup"

What makes an outgroup? Proximity plus small differences.

What makes an ingroup? Similarities, but when put to the test usually shared goals, or common enemies.

Ingroups and outgroups can be quite fluid. Lots of examples used here to support this.

[3] you can think of western societies as segregating into tribes, and can sort of simplify this to 3:

Blue tribe: wokeish types
Red tribe: fundamentalists, gun loving types
the smaller Grey tribe: not as easily stereotyped, but begins with something like libertarian political beliefs.

i unfortunately use trigger words here for brevity. Read the original if this simplification made you agitated

[5] the bias you have toward your tribe is stronger than almost all of your other beliefs (even your strong beliefs, like the ones about racism or sexism, etc).

There is quite strong experimental evidence for this. It's detailed in the essay.

This strong bias might help explain why folk from the Blue tribe seem eager to criticise christian fundamentalists (Red tribe), but rarely muslim fundamentalists. They might both be sexist but Muslim fandamentalists don't meet the criteria for an outgroup - they don't pass the proximal with small differences test.

[6] Among the Blue tribe: 'white', 'cis', and 'male' and especially combinations such as 'white cis male' have become code words for Red tribe. So when Blue tribe people say 'white males' or 'cis males', they usually mean Red tribe.

[7] Thus when white people of the Blue tribe criticise 'white people', they are not really being self-critical or saying anything about their ingroup. They are actually just criticising the Red tribe.

Thus they are not more tolerant and they deserve no Virtue points. They might use the words 'white people' to appear virtuous or righteous, but they are really just criticising their enemy.

[8] The Grey tribe (me) feel so far removed from the Red tribe that they would never bother criticising them (a bit like the Blue tribe and Muslim example). Grey tribe can think they are 'even more tolerant'.

[9] But the Grey tribe don't get any Virtue points either. Because to get them they would actually have to be tolerant of the Blue tribe (which Grey tribe struggle with, because outgroup)

Conclusion
No one has rewritten everything we know about social psychology. We could all be more tolerant and actually earn some virtue points - but to do this we have to be more honest about who our outgroups really are. You don't get virtue points for tolerating (or celebrating) people you have nothing against, nor for tolerating people so far removed from your sphere that you don't really care what they do.
------------------


PS - Scott Alexander is very clever - a US Psychiatrist who makes a better living off his blog than he does as a Dr. In this era he wrote some fantastic essays. Worth reading further.
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gangrenous
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by gangrenous »

That is a lot of words and I appreciate the summary. But I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with it?
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Raider Azz
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by Raider Azz »

Boomercm wrote:Impossible in two paragraphs. But here's the short version:

Intro

There is an odd change in the western world over the last 50 years or so which seems to go against almost everything we know about social psychology. On the surface people appear to be criticizing their ingroups (e.g., white people criticising white males), and being very supportive of their outgroups (e.g., name your minority). Taken at face value this appears to be very virtuous. The essay explores this change.
--------------
Arguments
[1] Forgiveness and tolerance are similar. You don't get Virtue points for forgiving something you don't care about. Likewise you don't get Virtue points for tolerating people you have nothing against.

[2] You can define tolerance as something like "respect and kindness shown toward people from an outgroup"

What makes an outgroup? Proximity plus small differences.

What makes an ingroup? Similarities, but when put to the test usually shared goals, or common enemies.

Ingroups and outgroups can be quite fluid. Lots of examples used here to support this.

[3] you can think of western societies as segregating into tribes, and can sort of simplify this to 3:

Blue tribe: wokeish types
Red tribe: fundamentalists, gun loving types
the smaller Grey tribe: not as easily stereotyped, but begins with something like libertarian political beliefs.

i unfortunately use trigger words here for brevity. Read the original if this simplification made you agitated

[5] the bias you have toward your tribe is stronger than almost all of your other beliefs (even your strong beliefs, like the ones about racism or sexism, etc).

There is quite strong experimental evidence for this. It's detailed in the essay.

This strong bias might help explain why folk from the Blue tribe seem eager to criticise christian fundamentalists (Red tribe), but rarely muslim fundamentalists. They might both be sexist but Muslim fandamentalists don't meet the criteria for an outgroup - they don't pass the proximal with small differences test.

[6] Among the Blue tribe: 'white', 'cis', and 'male' and especially combinations such as 'white cis male' have become code words for Red tribe. So when Blue tribe people say 'white males' or 'cis males', they usually mean Red tribe.

[7] Thus when white people of the Blue tribe criticise 'white people', they are not really being self-critical or saying anything about their ingroup. They are actually just criticising the Red tribe.

Thus they are not more tolerant and they deserve no Virtue points. They might use the words 'white people' to appear virtuous or righteous, but they are really just criticising their enemy.

[8] The Grey tribe (me) feel so far removed from the Red tribe that they would never bother criticising them (a bit like the Blue tribe and Muslim example). Grey tribe can think they are 'even more tolerant'.

[9] But the Grey tribe don't get any Virtue points either. Because to get them they would actually have to be tolerant of the Blue tribe (which Grey tribe struggle with, because outgroup)

Conclusion
No one has rewritten everything we know about social psychology. We could all be more tolerant and actually earn some virtue points - but to do this we have to be more honest about who our outgroups really are. You don't get virtue points for tolerating (or celebrating) people you have nothing against, nor for tolerating people so far removed from your sphere that you don't really care what they do.
------------------


PS - Scott Alexander is very clever - a US Psychiatrist who makes a better living off his blog than he does as a Dr. In this era he wrote some fantastic essays. Worth reading further.
lmao I'm not reading all of that
But I'm happy for you
Or sorry it happened

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pickles
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Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by pickles »

It’s interesting that many of the same players who wouldn’t wear a rainbow because of their religion happily supported someone who stabbed a person and was convicted of it..

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 7018a094a1
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by The Nickman »

pickles wrote:It’s interesting that many of the same players who wouldn’t wear a rainbow because of their religion happily supported someone who stabbed a person and was convicted of it..

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 7018a094a1
Well I think it’s already been well-established these guys are nothing more than bigoted *****, I don’t think this new development changes any of that.
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pickles
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by pickles »

The Nickman wrote:
pickles wrote:It’s interesting that many of the same players who wouldn’t wear a rainbow because of their religion happily supported someone who stabbed a person and was convicted of it..

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 7018a094a1
Well I think it’s already been well-established these guys are nothing more than bigoted ****, I don’t think this new development changes any of that.
100% but this removes any doubt for anyone who defending these guys
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greeneyed
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by greeneyed »

Interesting story in which Manly is said to want to appoint Anthony Seibold as assistant coach to Hasler for 2023, before Seibold takes over in 2024. Hasler would no longer have any control over recruitment. Hasler is said to want to an extension to end 2024, with Josh Hannay to be appointed as an assistant before he takes over in 2025.

If Hasler goes immediately, the Sea Eagles would appoint Seibold immediately.

Des Hasler’s legal threat to Manly over pride jersey fiasco: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 6c1afc7371
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dubby
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by dubby »

Someone should blow Manly up
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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the bone
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by the bone »

Why would anyone go near Seibold after his time at the Broncos? To lead a club with so many inherent advantages to the wooden spoon was a miraculous effort.
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gerg
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by gerg »

the bone wrote:Why would anyone go near Seibold after his time at the Broncos? To lead a club with so many inherent advantages to the wooden spoon was a miraculous effort.
Teams seem more willing to go with a failure than to give someone new a chance. Trent Barrett for example. But hopefully Ciraldo goes okay then we might see more opportunities go to the new coaches coming through. However I'm not sure that Seibold is a dud? He was white anted pretty badly at the Broncos and if anything he should be applauded for being a part of ruining that **** bag of a club.

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bonehead
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by bonehead »

Seibold knows his stuff, unfortunately he needs a very good front office and Manly can't provide that

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greeneyed
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by greeneyed »

Des Hasler sacked: Manly Sea Eagles axe club legend as coach as legal stoush, Seibold appointment loom

Manly have sensationally sacked coach Des Hasler in a bitter split and are poised to replace the club legend with ex-South Sydney and Brisbane coach Anthony Seibold. The board met on Thursday morning and made the decision to part ways with the coach, despite Hasler agreeing to a host of changes for next season.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 38398b2659
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LimeGreenMachine
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by LimeGreenMachine »

Old Dessie plays it smart

Says he is happy to work with the changes knowing full well its not what Manly wanted.
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greeneyed
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by greeneyed »

Anthony Seibold announced as new Manly Sea Eagles head coach

Manly Sea Eagles have confirmed the appointment of Anthony Seibold as its head coach for the 2023 season and beyond. The former Dally M Coach of the Year had inked a three-year deal with the club that would see him at the helm of Manly until at least the end of the 2025 NRL season.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/11/08/ant ... ead-coach/

Club statement

The Manly Sea Eagles are pleased to officially announce Anthony Seibold as their new NRL Head Coach for the next three years.

Seibold will be supported by new Assistant Coaches in Shane Flanagan and Jim Dymock, who have also agreed to three-year deals.

The appointment of Seibold sees him back at Brookvale after working as an Assistant Coach at the Sea Eagles in 2016.

Seibold makes his return to the NRL Head Coaching ranks after previously being Head Coach of the Brisbane Broncos and the South Sydney Rabbitohs. He was named the Dally M Coach of the Year in 2018.

He also worked as an Assistant Coach at Melbourne Storm and South Sydney, as well as the Queensland State of Origin team. Seibold has recently worked as an Assistant Coach at England Rugby under Eddie Jones.

Flanagan coached Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks in 185 games over eight seasons, winning the NRL Premiership in 2016. He worked at St George-Illawarra as an Assistant Coach in 2020.

A former premiership winning player, Dymock has worked as an Assistant Coach at the Sydney Roosters, Canterbury, Cronulla, and the Gold Coast Titans.

Sea Eagles CEO Tony Mestrov said the appointments signal a new beginning for the Club.

“Anthony has an incredible knowledge of the game and what is required at the highest level,’’ Mestrov said.

“Shane brings a wealth of experience to the club and has a great understanding of the pressure and demands associated with the NRL. He will be invaluable to Anthony and the Sea Eagles.

“Jim has an enormous amount of respect across the NRL, both as a former player and as a coach. He knows what needs to be done, having represented NSW, Australia and Tonga. He is also a Clive Churchill Medal winner.

“We welcome Anthony, Shane and Jim to the Sea Eagles. There is plenty of exciting times ahead at Manly.”
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-PJ-
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by -PJ- »

I’ll give it a season tops.
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#emptythetank :shock:
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greeneyed
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Re: Manly Sea Eagles 2022

Post by greeneyed »

Tommy Turbo to follow Latrell’s USA blueprint in bid to end injury curse

Sea Eagles fullback Tom Trbojevic will follow the lead of Latrell Mitchell and head to the USA to work with reconditioning specialist Bill Knowles in a bid to fix his nagging hamstring injuries. Manly coach Anthony was excited to provide Trbojevic with the best chance to try and put his injury woes behind him.

“I’m pleased to announce that will be sending Tom (Trbojevic) over to the United States, Philadelphia specifically,” Seibold said.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 4b7e5a0027
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