Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

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CRaid
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Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by CRaid »

Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass: Strugglers stagnate as smart sides get stronger

The NRL used to trumpet in advertising campaigns the effectiveness of the salary cap. How the team that won the premiership kept on changing. New champions every year, any club can lift the trophy, that sort of thing.

Six clubs are forming a perennial underclass in the NRL – the Dragons, Knights, Tigers, Titans and Warriors and Bulldogs have finished no higher than seventh in the past six seasons.

Read more: https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/07/21/s ... -stronger/

For a club like the Raiders that doesn’t have access to the same third party deals that other clubs have and that quite frankly the NRL treat as one of those clubs that are necessary only to make the numbers I think we do extremely well.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Azza »

Haven't won a premiership in 28 odd years. We stink.

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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Coastalraider »

I’d say a really large part of that set of 6 teams being an underclass has more to do with well publicised management/board issues than salary cap issues.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by myanonymoususername »

When I read that article I thought the Raiders only just scrape in above those 6.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Billy Walker »

Interesting - and hard to argue against. I would theorise that the strong sense of tribalism in rugby league allows this to happen. Super Rugby goes from crowds of 20k to next to nothing based of product and team performance. The sense of loyalty and tribalism league supporters have to their clubs is the reason they tolerate unbalanced playing fields and raw deals. It’s not great.
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the bone
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by the bone »

I’m surprised it’s taken so long to see an article such as this. These clubs have perpetually been on the bottom for a number of years now, with an aberration-7th-place-finish sprinkled in.
The Dolphins will be in this group as well, not just in the short term, but the long term too.
If I was a Bulldogs fan I wouldn’t be too worried - yes they have been horrific for a number of seasons now, but Des Hasler molested their salary cap, and they compounded the issue with some bad signings - Aaron Woods was there for 10 minutes.
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Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

myanonymoususername wrote:When I read that article I thought the Raiders only just scrape in above those 6.
Which is hard to swallow, as only a couple of years ago we were being talked up as being one of the top 4 clubs. It’s been a plummet.

Also telling that 3 clubs in that bottom 6 have had management issues and have had the NRL step in and get involved at one point or another.

Warriors boggles the mind. Without knowing the politics there between NRL and Union, they should be a powerhouse, purely based on having a whole country as potential for talent.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by dubby »

Doesn't this also exist in soccer? The same big teams always dominate the competition?
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Botman »

dubby wrote: July 25, 2022, 9:24 am Doesn't this also exist in soccer? The same big teams always dominate the competition?
That's a bit of chalk and cheese though, as Soccer don't operate with any salary cap and there is actually no intention for there to be any level of parity
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Botman »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 25, 2022, 7:53 am Warriors boggles the mind. Without knowing the politics there between NRL and Union, they should be a powerhouse, purely based on having a whole country as potential for talent.
The warriors will always be second class citizens
Theoretically there should be enough talent there to make them a power house but every club is scouting in NZ and bringing the kids over early into their own systems, and that's on top of the simply reality that being an All Black is THE dream there... NZ has produced a lot of very high quality players who would be great NRL players, including a couple of world class ball players who would have made excellent league halves... but they just end up playing union and being all blacks

If Union didnt exist, players like Beauden and Jordie Barrett, Aaron Smith, Sam Cane and all the former greats would have just played League and likely ended up as NZ Warriors players and they'd have half a dozen premierships to over their history
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Canberra Milk »

We do extremely well to be slightly above the underclass failure teams? Really?

Well yeah I mean, that's the standard set by the Raiders now.

Also note that Knights and Titans finished above us last year. A two year blip saved us from being right amongst all those teams
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: July 25, 2022, 9:51 am
dubby wrote: July 25, 2022, 9:24 am Doesn't this also exist in soccer? The same big teams always dominate the competition?
That's a bit of chalk and cheese though, as Soccer don't operate with any salary cap and there is actually no intention for there to be any level of parity
Soccer is very much the sporting equivalent of capitalism.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Seiffert82 »

There's arguments for every single club in that list to not be in the bottom 6. The Warriors in particular have been disappointing for most of their history but the COVID situation has really disrupted them.

But yes, there has been quite a divide for a while now.

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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by dubby »

Warriors should be amongst the most successful clubs in the nrl.

Sadly their pathways programs have been very disappointing.

If they can implement successful junior development and nurture local competition they will be a true powerhouse.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 25, 2022, 7:53 am Warriors boggles the mind. Without knowing the politics there between NRL and Union, they should be a powerhouse, purely based on having a whole country as potential for talent.
The warriors will always be second class citizens
Theoretically there should be enough talent there to make them a power house but every club is scouting in NZ and bringing the kids over early into their own systems, and that's on top of the simply reality that being an All Black is THE dream there... NZ has produced a lot of very high quality players who would be great NRL players, including a couple of world class ball players who would have made excellent league halves... but they just end up playing union and being all blacks

If Union didnt exist, players like Beauden and Jordie Barrett, Aaron Smith, Sam Cane and all the former greats would have just played League and likely ended up as NZ Warriors players and they'd have half a dozen premierships to over their history
Yeah they’re all valid points. I remember Paul Kent also said on 360 the other night how NRL clubs are picking players up from kids, bringing them to Aus on scholarships, so they’re struggling to get kids from the start.

So you’re right. Like Dubs said, if they can get some pathways happening, they’d be up there. I guess having a coach who wants to live in NZ would be a good place to start.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Seiffert82 »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
Botman wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 25, 2022, 7:53 am Warriors boggles the mind. Without knowing the politics there between NRL and Union, they should be a powerhouse, purely based on having a whole country as potential for talent.
The warriors will always be second class citizens
Theoretically there should be enough talent there to make them a power house but every club is scouting in NZ and bringing the kids over early into their own systems, and that's on top of the simply reality that being an All Black is THE dream there... NZ has produced a lot of very high quality players who would be great NRL players, including a couple of world class ball players who would have made excellent league halves... but they just end up playing union and being all blacks

If Union didnt exist, players like Beauden and Jordie Barrett, Aaron Smith, Sam Cane and all the former greats would have just played League and likely ended up as NZ Warriors players and they'd have half a dozen premierships to over their history
Yeah they’re all valid points. I remember Paul Kent also said on 360 the other night how NRL clubs are picking players up from kids, bringing them to Aus on scholarships, so they’re struggling to get kids from the start.

So you’re right. Like Dubs said, if they can get some pathways happening, they’d be up there. I guess having a coach who wants to live in NZ would be a good place to start.
Yes, but are the Warriors even trying?

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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Pete Cash »

I mean both Tapine and JFH were signed from nz by Australian clubs and they are arguably the best props in the comp.

The broncos fell asleep at the wheel and let other clubs ruin them in talent identification in Queensland. In particular the storm. The warriors haven't even gotten into the car. I feel like Australian clubs have always been better at picking off their talent. As far as rights to work new Zealand is effectively the same as just another Australian state.

Edit

Look at the NZ team that played Tonga. There wasn't any warriors players in the team. All of them were born in NZ and 90% played youth football there before being picked up by an Australian club. Guys like rapana (moved to Australia at 10) or Brandon Smith (moved to Australia because his brother ended up in another teams system) are somewhat understandable but on the whole a lot of nz talent just gets picked up by Australian clubs.

It's not like the knights (tapine) are some glamour club that nz league players dream of playing for either. That's an issue of talent identification
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by Seiffert82 »

Pete Cash wrote:I mean both Tapine and JFH were signed from nz by Australian clubs and they are arguably the best props in the comp.

The broncos fell asleep at the wheel and let other clubs ruin them in talent identification in Queensland. In particular the storm. The warriors haven't even gotten into the car. I feel like Australian clubs have always been better at picking off their talent. As far as rights to work new Zealand is effectively the same as just another Australian state.

Edit

Look at the NZ team that played Tonga. There wasn't any warriors players in the team. All of them were born in NZ and 90% played youth football there before being picked up by an Australian club. Guys like rapana (moved to Australia at 10) or Brandon Smith (moved to Australia because his brother ended up in another teams system) are somewhat understandable but on the whole a lot of nz talent just gets picked up by Australian clubs.

It's not like the knights (tapine) are some glamour club that nz league players dream of playing for either. That's an issue of talent identification
Exactly.

Suggesting the Australian teams have some sort of advantage in indentifying and recruiting talented NZ based juniors makes zero sense to me.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the pathway system in the Warriors club. They have just as much natural advantage as Penrith and Brisbane. It's appalling.

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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Agree with all of this. Why do people get homesick for Brisbane / QLD, but not NZ?
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by bonehead »

why would you though?

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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

bonehead wrote:why would you though?

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Touché, never been to NZ.
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Re: Set of six clubs forming a perennial NRL underclass

Post by bonehead »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
bonehead wrote:why would you though?

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Touché, never been to NZ.
it's beautiful, I jest.

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