Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

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Hong Kong Raider
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Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I'm starting to accept that we won't go on a run of victories and make the 8. In our good years when we made the Finals, we won those close games. That was a 4 point game against the Dragons.

Like it or not, Ricky's going to be here next year so we need to make the most of what we got. We support him with some good assistants.

I think there have been some positives this year:

* Tapine having his best season, being rated as one of the best forwards in the comp, if not one of the best players
* the emergence of Savage as a genuine FG giving us attacking impetus from the fullback position
* Horse's improvement
* Despite them having bad games v Dragons and the odd defensive lapses (Kris v Brenko Lee; Timoko v Dylan Brown), genuine strike power in the centres. Kris looks to have gained pace. Timoko scored the match winner v Roosters and tries against GC.
* Woolford being a genuine FG hooking option
*Young's improvement

What we need to work on:

* our attack, which hasn't improved at all. It never looks fluent - the same clunkiness after 3 years. Timoko can catch a cold on the right. We need to throw more at opposition defences.
* our performances in the 2nd half. Related to bench use, game management and fitness
* the dumb low percentage plays, lack of football smarts, and penalties
* completion rates
* 5th tackle options
* lack of leadership

I'd like to see a core group of young players such as Savage, Timoko, Kris, HSS lead us forward into the future. Tapine to captain us and hope he resigns in the summer. I hope Mooney steps up to replace Adam Elliott who's been playing well.

Use Whitehead for recruitment of good players in England and then it may be a bench role or very limited FG. Or come to an amicable departure. I don't know what happened with CHN after he resigned. We have got too many players tied up in the cap not playing FG. Deal with Guler's contract over the summer.

Fogarty and Schneider to fight it out for the halfback position. Sign Lachlan Lam as a back up also.

I hope CNK stays as he can play a number of positions.

Not worried about Papa. He had a slow start (like all our forwards) but as soon as Germ Jnr joined us they all improved their run metres.

Some new assistant coaches please.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by -PJ- »

I like to see the biggest cannon ever manufactured fire the whole organisation into the sun.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Off »

I think we will be challenging for top 4 next year and premiers the following year, we are well coached, well stocked and well administered, all things goin well nothing to see here, we are just a beacon of a high performance successful football operation. Yay RAIDERS!!!!

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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Off »

Oh and I really really really hope we can add to the Viking clap by incorporating some Dancing and confetti throwing, it really gets the opposition frightened, and is great for the kiddies and Azza.....Yay Raiders!!!!!

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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by The Nickman »

No, I don’t like it.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by The Nickman »

Question wrote:Oh and I really really really hope we can add to the Viking clap by incorporating some Dancing and confetti throwing, it really gets the opposition frightened, and is great for the kiddies and Azza.....Yay Raiders!!!!!

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I think whatever happens into 2023 and beyond, the Viking Fart should be adopted and here to stay
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Mickey_Raider
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Mickey_Raider »

These exercises can often be therapeutic in that you can give yourself the feeling of narrowing down and cauterising the issues whilst accentuating the positives.

The problem with this team is, for all the positive feelings I have towards the likes of Hudson Young, Xavier and Tapine and their form/progress this year, there has been an equal or greater corresponding regression from the likes of Starling, Papa, Wighton, Whitehead , Rapana and so on and so forth.

Even if we continue on our bumbling ways next year, I am sure there will be some pleasing progress from one of the younger players and/or a career year from one of our established guys.

But what good are all of these micro wins when we are a disorganised rabble without a hope in hell of competing against the elite teams at present?

And then we will go on to the 2024 off-season doing this exercise all over again, deluding ourselves into thinking we are only one breakout year from a Rushton or Mooney from competing.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

We have big issues in the opposition 20. We don't create much doubt in the opposition defensive line, there are no fractures, we largely rely on breaking tackles to score points.

Until we have some more consitent threat, and any sort of threat on the right edge, we'll continue to struggle to score enough points.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by hrundi89 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: July 5, 2022, 7:46 am These exercises can often be therapeutic in that you can give yourself the feeling of narrowing down and cauterising the issues whilst accentuating the positives.

The problem with this team is, for all the positive feelings I have towards the likes of Hudson Young, Xavier and Tapine and their form/progress this year, there has been an equal or greater corresponding regression from the likes of Starling, Papa, Wighton, Whitehead , Rapana and so on and so forth.

Even if we continue on our bumbling ways next year, I am sure there will be some pleasing progress from one of the younger players and/or a career year from one of our established guys.

But what good are all of these micro wins when we are a disorganised rabble without a hope in hell of competing against the elite teams at present?

And then we will go on to the 2024 off-season doing this exercise all over again, deluding ourselves into thinking we are only one breakout year from a Rushton or Mooney from competing.
Preach it mate. You're spot on.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by BadnMean »

Mickey_Raider wrote: July 5, 2022, 7:46 am These exercises can often be therapeutic in that you can give yourself the feeling of narrowing down and cauterising the issues whilst accentuating the positives.

The problem with this team is, for all the positive feelings I have towards the likes of Hudson Young, Xavier and Tapine and their form/progress this year, there has been an equal or greater corresponding regression from the likes of Starling, Papa, Wighton, Whitehead , Rapana and so on and so forth.

Even if we continue on our bumbling ways next year, I am sure there will be some pleasing progress from one of the younger players and/or a career year from one of our established guys.

But what good are all of these micro wins when we are a disorganised rabble without a hope in hell of competing against the elite teams at present?

And then we will go on to the 2024 off-season doing this exercise all over again, deluding ourselves into thinking we are only one breakout year from a Rushton or Mooney from competing.
The positions which make the most difference are the spine obviously. As you say the rest can have fine years and be fun to watch but aren't going to make or break a season necessarily.

Savage will be developing, that's fine. He's a point of difference in attack at least and working on the rest.

Woolford is good. A nice wide pass and some brains. The kind of hooker who can make others better. And I hope with a season under his belt he can start to assert some of those brains in guiding the team. Potentially a good little combo with he and Starling if we can use them right. Or the other option is get Woolford fit enough to go 80 next year.

Jack... sigh, is Jack. He still has these stinker games where he'll drop 4 balls and get crucial kicks wrong. I swear he wasn't even looking at the ball while he was kicking that touchfinder- his mind and eyes were already upfield. I remember vs Parra at Darwin a few years ago I flew back to Oz and watched him play a similar stinker. Started the year well imo. Fell away in the middle.

Fogarty... is copping a lot of flack. He's not a star half. He was supposed to just come in, direct play and take some kicking pressure off Jack. PArtly the issue is his knee- he was a slow half who just managed to have enough running chops to keep a line honest. But he's lost a yard with his knee and it's having an impact on his game. I said a few weeks ago I'd just judge Fog on his kicking game, how he manages to take share playmaking with Jack and whether he can spark something, anything, for us on the right.

Overall his kicking has been decent (yes, mistake vs Dragons but overall, decent). He's struggled to do anything else though- our organisation doesn't look much improved over what Frawley/Schneider were doing. It might take more than 3-4 games to come. But when you're an NRL half in your mid/late 20s you are expected to get that working. Performance is expected. And we have zero happening on the right. Partly that is due to having a busted flush out there in Whitehead but he's got Timoko and Rapana wider if he is good enough to hit them.

I'm not so invested in Fogarty and his ceiling is relatively low anyway that we should be waiting for miracles from him. Who knows, he might never get that yard of zip back and be pure plodder. We should be in the market again imo, if halves come along. Schneider is thereabouts but not banging the door down either.

We'll likely get some improvement at #1, potentially at #9 too. But we can't sit on our hands praying Fogarty reaches the giddy heights of a 6/10 halfback again vs the risk he stays at a 4/10.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Raider47 »

The game on the weekend, and despite the conditions it's the same every other week, was the perfect demonstration as to why I have no hope for 2023 and beyond. There is no tangible evidence of any structural coaching. When your tactics are 5 hit ups then kick, or within a set rely on a piece of individual brilliance, I don't see how we can look forward to the future with this system. I feel like I could coach that. Any player less than a superstar isn't going to excel as Ricky Stuart coached Raider.

We have good players and with this will be some good wins like we have every **** year, however it's not a recipe for sustained success. And we're not maximising our potential through dumb decisions in recruitment and retention.

I myself always try to convince myself with these reasons to be cheerful however it's an endless cycle at this poorly managed club. Some good players to paper of the cracks with some good wins, however systematically we have issues that won't be resolved by 'sorting out what to do with Fogarty', 'whether Rushton will be a good 13', 'whether Woolford can continue his promising start', 'whether HSS comes back' etc.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Billy Walker »

If nothing else, hopefully Croker will return in 2023 and run down a few more club and NRL records. There is something to be positive about.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by -PJ- »

Don’t forget the 1yr extension with another in the players favour.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beuyond

Post by dubby »

The reason we look clunky is because we've so many spine positions change


Losing Fogarty and Hodgson early really unsettled the fluency of our attack. Take any 7 and 9 out of a team and see how they perform.

Plus, we have a very raw albeit exciting fullback who really is about 18 months away from being absolutely ready. At least he's been given an opportunity.

Moving into next year I'm hoping we see Fogarty, Savage and Woolford gel with Jack much better. No one ever predicted THAT spine would be our spine. Ever.

EW is under pressure. He's like Croker, one serious injury from retirement. Age and mileage has caught up with him.

I look forward to seeing how Mooney and Rushton develop. Guler needs to step up as well (side note, hearing his manager is in talks with some Sydney clubs).

The club is about to overhaul, again.

Losing Elliott, Sutton does place a lot of opportunity for the aforementioned players, while leaving us very inexperienced. Hoping we can sign a decent 13 with strong leadership. Someone like Finucane for eg.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beuyond

Post by Raider47 »

dubby wrote: July 5, 2022, 3:06 pm The reason we look clunky is because we've so many spine positions change


Losing Fogarty and Hodgson early really unsettled the fluency of our attack. Take any 7 and 9 out of a team and see how they perform.

Plus, we have a very raw albeit exciting fullback who really is about 18 months away from being absolutely ready. At least he's been given an opportunity.

Moving into next year I'm hoping we see Fogarty, Savage and Woolford gel with Jack much better. No one ever predicted THAT spine would be our spine. Ever.

EW is under pressure. He's like Croker, one serious injury from retirement. Age and mileage has caught up with him.

I look forward to seeing how Mooney and Rushton develop. Guler needs to step up as well (side note, hearing his manager is in talks with some Sydney clubs).

The club is about to overhaul, again.

Losing Elliott, Sutton does place a lot of opportunity for the aforementioned players, while leaving us very inexperienced. Hoping we can sign a decent 13 with strong leadership. Someone like Finucane for eg.
The problem is a clunky attack is usually born out of a team whicb are trying things but it's just not paying off due to a lack of cohesion.

We aren't trying **** so it doesn't really matter who is in our spine if we have no structure or set plays. It matters to the point where we solely rely on individual acts of brilliance.

I agree losing Hodgo and Fogarty hurt us but I don't believe it would make us into much more than what we are now. Hodgo is on the decline and Fogarty has never shown to be more than an average NRL player who IMO has not shown any more than Schneider.

I strongly doubt we are set to overhaul. Our recruitment has gone to the dogs and we are condemning it further through dumb retention.

Yes we have some promising youth but we always have had promising youth. Fat lot of good it is if we don't have a competent coach, strong outside recruitment and a club in general to compliment it.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Dusty »

2023
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Kris
4. HSS / Timoko
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. CHN
13. Mooney

14. Starling
15. Whitehead
16. Rushton
17. Horsburgh


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2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
14. Simmonson 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Horsburgh
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Billy Walker »

Dusty wrote: July 5, 2022, 6:10 pm 2023
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Kris
4. HSS / Timoko
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. CHN
13. Mooney

14. Starling
15. Whitehead
16. Rushton
17. Horsburgh


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= 14th

You’d hope to see some solid recruitment and squad turn over to avoid a 17 that looks like that in 2023.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Billy Walker wrote: July 6, 2022, 7:38 am
Dusty wrote: July 5, 2022, 6:10 pm 2023
1. Savage
2. Cotric
3. Kris
4. HSS / Timoko
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Fogarty
8. Papalii
9. Woolford
10. Tapine
11. Young
12. CHN
13. Mooney

14. Starling
15. Whitehead
16. Rushton
17. Horsburgh


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= 14th

You’d hope to see some solid recruitment and squad turn over to avoid a 17 that looks like that in 2023.
Absolutely.

You don’t run it back unchanged after a top 4 season, let alone after a bottom 4 season.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beuyond

Post by The Nickman »

dubby wrote: July 5, 2022, 3:06 pm The reason we look clunky is because we've so many spine positions change


Losing Fogarty and Hodgson early really unsettled the fluency of our attack. Take any 7 and 9 out of a team and see how they perform.

Plus, we have a very raw albeit exciting fullback who really is about 18 months away from being absolutely ready. At least he's been given an opportunity.

Moving into next year I'm hoping we see Fogarty, Savage and Woolford gel with Jack much better. No one ever predicted THAT spine would be our spine. Ever.

EW is under pressure. He's like Croker, one serious injury from retirement. Age and mileage has caught up with him.

I look forward to seeing how Mooney and Rushton develop. Guler needs to step up as well (side note, hearing his manager is in talks with some Sydney clubs).

The club is about to overhaul, again.

Losing Elliott, Sutton does place a lot of opportunity for the aforementioned players, while leaving us very inexperienced. Hoping we can sign a decent 13 with strong leadership. Someone like Finucane for eg.
And coaching. Really poor structures, poor fitness, poor tactics and poor bench rotation/game management.

Just really, really poor coaching all round, and it's been evident for years.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yes. We know we are at least losing Hodgson, CNK, Sutton, Williams and Elliott from this year's squad.

Croker (32 this year) and Whitehead (33) are clearly our other two dead weight contracts, as well as Rapana (33) being pretty much done. Hopefully a decision is made on those three over the offseason. All 2-3 years past their peak.

That opens up a few spots for new faces in addition to Woolford.

I'm backing the young players we already have in our spine. HSS should be a good addition to the bsckline and hopefully CHN comes back to his best.

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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by papabear »

Next year we will go as well wighton does.

That is a worrying thought.

The biggest issue I have with our attack is the use of starling.

He should either be on in the middle period or not used at all.... also he needs to get width on his passes.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by sprintman »

I picked us for 12th this season. Next season maybe 14th.
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Re: Moving forward to 2023 and beyond

Post by Crash Ball »

Trevilyan and Mooney can potentially make a big difference. They are two you could build around and could hit the ground running in first grade. I see a fair bit of potential improvement in the outside backs as well with Hoppa, Asomua coming through, HSS hopefully recovered and Timoko continuing to improve.

In the forwards they will need a couple of middles and a second rower based on the departures and direction some of the remaining ones in the squad are trending.

Obviously recruitment is a massive challenge. UK was the best strategy the club has come up with in 30 years to counter it but it seems that door was largely shut now.
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