Ricky Stuart savages referee standard

[Green Blogger]

Notwithstanding the fact that we played poorly yesterday, we were still right there at the end and the NRL world agrees we should have been given a penalty to tie the game and go to extra time.

Without doing any significant research four games come to mind in the last three years where highly contentious and widely acknowledged refereeing errors have either directly cost us or significantly contributed to costing us the game:
1. 6 again Grand Final
2. Auckland Warriors Kodi Nikorima blatant forward pass.
3. Auckland Warriors Matt Lodge Academy Award penalty.
4. St George Dragons professional fouls without penalty being awarded.

What really gets me though is that I cannot remember the last time that the rub of the green went the other way ie when was the last time a controversial refereeing decision that influenced or determined the outcome of a match go our way? I cannot think of one. And yet Graham Annesley insists there is no unconscious bias in the way referees are running games.

[Off]

Spilt milk.

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[Roger Kenworthy]

I actually think we get a pretty good run these days. We're still perceived as a quality club from our 2019 GF appearance, that illusion will be gone next season. We've rode that and get the rub of the green more often than not since 2016 IMO.

Games like yesterday's you can just foresee the referee having an impact on the result the way he calls every 50/50 one way. It was like a train wreck in slow motion. This happens way too often in the NRL, whether it's bias or incompetence is up for debate. But overall I don't think we can complain.

[Finchy]

Todd Carney charging down a field goal from an offside position about 15 years ago was the last time we got the rub.

Going back a little farther than 3 years, we also got screwed over vs Manly when Brett Stewart scored from an offside position. Screwed over vs Penrith in Bathurst I think when they formed an illegal wall to pot a field goal. There’s gotta be more.

[The Nickman]

There's been more than one decision go our way in 15 years haha... you blokes only remember the ones we lose

[Wiki Special]

Let's not forget the debacle against the Sharks in 2018.

The Warriors loss last year cost us the Finals. The Warriors loss this year may also.

[Botman]

Vunivalu phantom arm in a finals game already lost in the sands of time

[gerg]

We created success in 2019 by not using this nonsense as an excuse but we've reverted to this pathetic victim mentality. We are playing like garbage. We continue to lose these games we should win and those last minute wins, which we jag, (knights and sharks) gloss over how bad we truly are.

[Finchy]

There's been more than one decision go our way in 15 years haha... you blokes only remember the ones we lose

Not talking decisions in general play, but last second match-deciding decisions. Do you recall any howlers that got us the win?

It’s not just us either. The Cowboys got screwed over in finals 3 years in a row with the hand of Foran vs Manly, seventh tackle try vs Cronulla, and match winning try incorrectly called forward vs Roosters.

Match-deciding howlers are memorable. They happen against us more often than for us, of that I’m certain.

2019 grand final, screwed over. 2016 final vs Cronulla was the same as yesterday. Baptiste tackled at dummy half last play by an offside player 5m out last tackle, no penalty, Sharks win by 2.

Then there was the touchie putting his flag up vs Cronulla a few years back, we all stopped, Cronulla scored, doesn’t get called back.

We get screwed over a lot, and we also suck. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

[bonehead]

We are rudderless in attack, sideways all the time, no idea tactically as soon as the opposition get on top.
A couple of sets yesterday we just went 1 out and from dummy half and got smashed up, not thought to getting deeper and spreading as best we could.
Since they slowed the ruck again Starling has been poor.

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[Finchy]

Vunivalu phantom arm in a finals game already lost in the sands of time

That one looked a lot closer from this angle. There’s another angle where he looked about a metre safe.

[Botman]

So if it's close we just get to put our fingers in our ears, yell "lalalalala" and pretend it never happened?
Alright, best of luck with your project fellas but i've been on this journey before and it sucks. So i wont be going on it again.

[The Nickman]

There's been more than one decision go our way in 15 years haha... you blokes only remember the ones we lose

Not talking decisions in general play, but last second match-deciding decisions. Do you recall any howlers that got us the win?

It’s not just us either. The Cowboys got screwed over in finals 3 years in a row with the hand of Foran vs Manly, seventh tackle try vs Cronulla, and match winning try incorrectly called forward vs Roosters.

Match-deciding howlers are memorable. They happen against us more often than for us, of that I’m certain.

2019 grand final, screwed over. 2016 final vs Cronulla was the same as yesterday. Baptiste tackled at dummy half last play by an offside player 5m out last tackle, no penalty, Sharks win by 2.

Then there was the touchie putting his flag up vs Cronulla a few years back, we all stopped, Cronulla scored, doesn’t get called back.

We get screwed over a lot, and we also suck. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Refer to my original point, it still stands. You just don't remember the ones that fall our way.

[The Nickman]

So if it's close we just get to put our fingers in our ears, yell "lalalalala" and pretend it never happened?
Alright, best of luck with your project fellas but i've been on this journey before and it sucks. So i wont be going on it again.

Oh yes you will. You'll stay here and you'll like it, dammit!

[papabear]

there was a match against the dragons when they were good and we were **** in or around 2003 we ended up drawing but it was the biggest conjob from the refs I had ever witnessed.

[Finchy]

there was a match against the dragons when they were good and we were **** in or around 2003 we ended up drawing but it was the biggest conjob from the refs I had ever witnessed.

I remember that one. I thought it was 2001. We got rorted big time

[Mickey_Raider]

It is remarkable how the conspiracy theories seem to almost perfectly correspond with times when we stink.

You know why?

Because when you are a good team, bad reffing decisions are usually nothing more than a minor footnote in a game analysis. I don't remember one conspiracy thread in 2019 because Raiers fans were too busy analysing how, wow, we are actually a fundamentally sound team here.

When you are a **** team, many people find comfort in scrambling around for excuses so they don't have to accept the full extent of our woefulness.

Seriously put it away. No one denies that the NRL grapples with officiating ineptitude from time to time. But there is no conspiracy.

I have no energy to dwell on one decision in 80 minutes of dross when we have hundreds of opportunities during a game to show quality, and we can't.

[Finchy]

So if it's close we just get to put our fingers in our ears, yell "lalalalala" and pretend it never happened?

Yes.

[Northern Raider]

The decision yesterday was an abosolute shocker. Nothing to do with the the club or any percieve bias however. Ref choked.

[Finchy]

It is remarkable how the conspiracy theories seem to almost perfectly correspond with times when we stink.

You know why?

Because when you are a good team, bad reffing decisions are usually nothing more than a minor footnote in a game analysis. I don't remember one conspiracy thread in 2019 because Raiers fans were too busy analysing how, wow, we are actually a fundamentally sound team here.

When you are a **** team, many people find comfort in scrambling around for excuses so they don't have to accept the full extent of our woefulness.

Seriously put it away. No one denies that the NRL grapples with officiating ineptitude from time to time. But there is no conspiracy.

I have no energy to dwell on one decision in 80 minutes of dross when we have hundreds of opportunities during a game to show quality, and we can't.

2016. Good team. Rorted vs Sharks final.
2019. Good team. Rorted in the GF.

Next.

[The Nickman]

It is remarkable how the conspiracy theories seem to almost perfectly correspond with times when we stink.

You know why?

Because when you are a good team, bad reffing decisions are usually nothing more than a minor footnote in a game analysis. I don't remember one conspiracy thread in 2019 because Raiers fans were too busy analysing how, wow, we are actually a fundamentally sound team here.

When you are a **** team, many people find comfort in scrambling around for excuses so they don't have to accept the full extent of our woefulness.

Seriously put it away. No one denies that the NRL grapples with officiating ineptitude from time to time. But there is no conspiracy.

I have no energy to dwell on one decision in 80 minutes of dross when we have hundreds of opportunities during a game to show quality, and we can't.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[gangrenous]

It is remarkable how the conspiracy theories seem to almost perfectly correspond with times when we stink.

You know why?

Because when you are a good team, bad reffing decisions are usually nothing more than a minor footnote in a game analysis. I don't remember one conspiracy thread in 2019 because Raiers fans were too busy analysing how, wow, we are actually a fundamentally sound team here.

When you are a **** team, many people find comfort in scrambling around for excuses so they don't have to accept the full extent of our woefulness.

Seriously put it away. No one denies that the NRL grapples with officiating ineptitude from time to time. But there is no conspiracy.

I have no energy to dwell on one decision in 80 minutes of dross when we have hundreds of opportunities during a game to show quality, and we can't.

This is pretty typical of this side of the argument.

- Very rarely do you get people arguing it’s an actual conspiracy. What people are generally arguing is that in the spectrum of decisions involving some level of doubt, that the Raiders don’t get their share of 50/50s. Not through a conscious agenda, but because of subconscious perceptions of what teams are good, as well as the lesser fallout for refs if less regarded teams are the affected.

- Of course when you are a good team these decisions mean less because their chance of impacting the game is reduced. You are also generally benefiting from the unconscious bias due to being perceived as good in those seasons. Finally of course a bad decision hurts less when it does come if you win the game anyway.

- it is still reasonable to be able to expect that when you’re not a good team that is so far ahead that a poor decision or two won’t affect you, that refereeing won’t decide the game. The team should strive to be so good it doesn’t matter. But that does not make it fair if it does happen in a close game.

I’ve had this argument a lot before so not keen to retread a lot. But if you stack up the poor match deciding refereeing decisions for and against the Raiders (acknowledging our bias in recollection) I still think you’ll find quite an uneven result.

[Seiffert82]

We are rudderless in attack, sideways all the time, no idea tactically as soon as the opposition get on top.
A couple of sets yesterday we just went 1 out and from dummy half and got smashed up, not thought to getting deeper and spreading as best we could.
Since they slowed the ruck again Starling has been poor.

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Yep. We made metres almost every time we shifted two wide without taking too many risks.

I still don't understand why we don't use our centres more.

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[Seiffert82]

Every team gets good and bad calls. We've had a couple of absolute clangers this season though.

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[cat]

I'm not going to get into the debate if raiders get the rough end of the pineapple more often then certain other clubs

What I will say is though fans of all clubs would be a lot more forgiving of the refs IF they stopped acting like they are superior and error free

There are people on here wanting a number of players dropped for bad performances and rightly so.

They want ricky sacked , don fired etc etc.

Why is it just acceptable to keep the refs performing so badly as a "club"?

As a club all nrl teams assess and review making changes where they can to improve be it in the areas of fitness, recovery, game plan etc etc


There is obviously (lets hope) unconscious bias towards certain teams and against others based on the different refs
What are the refs doing about it? Nothing

No feel for the game, time awareness such as yesterday, what are the refs doing about it? Nothing

Refs missing a lot of forward passes , once again nothing is happening

It's all dandy for Anneseley to come out today and say oops we got it wrong but that changes nothing.

We have a multi million dollar competition with clubs and the nrl using millions of dollars worth of technologies and scientific processes but we have a bunch of refs from the ice age

[cat]

Every team gets good and bad calls. We've had a couple of absolute clangers this season though.

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Agree but shouldn't the nrl/refs be doing something to reduce this and not just accept it?

Would you accept the raiders having a couple of "bad calls/choices" every game?

[The Nickman]

I'm not going to get into the debate if raiders get the rough end of the pineapple more often then certain other clubs

What I will say is though fans of all clubs would be a lot more forgiving of the refs IF they stopped acting like they are superior and error free

There are people on here wanting a number of players dropped for bad performances and rightly so.

They want ricky sacked , don fired etc etc.

Why is it just acceptable to keep the refs performing so badly as a "club"?

As a club all nrl teams assess and review making changes where they can to improve be it in the areas of fitness, recovery, game plan etc etc


There is obviously (lets hope) unconscious bias towards certain teams and against others based on the different refs
What are the refs doing about it? Nothing

No feel for the game, time awareness such as yesterday, what are the refs doing about it? Nothing

Refs missing a lot of forward passes , once again nothing is happening

It's all dandy for Anneseley to come out today and say oops we got it wrong but that changes nothing.

We have a multi million dollar competition with clubs and the nrl using millions of dollars worth of technologies and scientific processes but we have a bunch of refs from the ice age

SO you don't think the referees are doing anything at all to try and limit their errors and ref the games to the highest standard?

[Northern Raider]

Every team gets good and bad calls. We've had a couple of absolute clangers this season though.

I'd love to see the Panthers on the end of a few of these. We've seen in the past that Cleary doesn't react well if the decisions don't go their way. Unfortunately it rarely happens and they seem to get the rub of the green on a regular basis. Roosters were always getting the calls their way when they were leading the comp. Todd Payten was 100% correct when he said that teams at the pointy end get a lot more contentious calls go their way.

[cat]

I'm not going to get into the debate if raiders get the rough end of the pineapple more often then certain other clubs

What I will say is though fans of all clubs would be a lot more forgiving of the refs IF they stopped acting like they are superior and error free

There are people on here wanting a number of players dropped for bad performances and rightly so.

They want ricky sacked , don fired etc etc.

Why is it just acceptable to keep the refs performing so badly as a "club"?

As a club all nrl teams assess and review making changes where they can to improve be it in the areas of fitness, recovery, game plan etc etc


There is obviously (lets hope) unconscious bias towards certain teams and against others based on the different refs
What are the refs doing about it? Nothing

No feel for the game, time awareness such as yesterday, what are the refs doing about it? Nothing

Refs missing a lot of forward passes , once again nothing is happening

It's all dandy for Anneseley to come out today and say oops we got it wrong but that changes nothing.

We have a multi million dollar competition with clubs and the nrl using millions of dollars worth of technologies and scientific processes but we have a bunch of refs from the ice age

SO you don't think the referees are doing anything at all to try and limit their errors and ref the games to the highest standard?

No I dont because they cant see the problem and are untouchable in the media

Can you honestly tell me you can see an improvement and a higher level of accountability with the refs ( as an organisation/"club") within the last 5 years?

[greeneyed]

Every team gets good and bad calls. We've had a couple of absolute clangers this season though.

I'd love to see the Panthers on the end of a few of these. We've seen in the past that Cleary doesn't react well if the decisions don't go their way. Unfortunately it rarely happens and they seem to get the rub of the green on a regular basis. Roosters were always getting the calls their way when they were leading the comp. Todd Payten was 100% correct when he said that teams at the pointy end get a lot more contentious calls go their way.

It is unrecognised bias on the part of the officials. But given the extensive psycological studies of the phenomenon, it is possible for a forward thinking NRL and a forward thinking NRL football department to understand that it exists. Recognising it is an issue is the first step to addressing it. But, as we know, Graham Annesley recently went to extreme lengths to deny there is a possible problem... and in the process showed that he doesn't understand the concept at all. It won't improve until they understand the nature of the issue.

[The Nickman]

I'm not going to get into the debate if raiders get the rough end of the pineapple more often then certain other clubs

What I will say is though fans of all clubs would be a lot more forgiving of the refs IF they stopped acting like they are superior and error free

There are people on here wanting a number of players dropped for bad performances and rightly so.

They want ricky sacked , don fired etc etc.

Why is it just acceptable to keep the refs performing so badly as a "club"?

As a club all nrl teams assess and review making changes where they can to improve be it in the areas of fitness, recovery, game plan etc etc


There is obviously (lets hope) unconscious bias towards certain teams and against others based on the different refs
What are the refs doing about it? Nothing

No feel for the game, time awareness such as yesterday, what are the refs doing about it? Nothing

Refs missing a lot of forward passes , once again nothing is happening

It's all dandy for Anneseley to come out today and say oops we got it wrong but that changes nothing.

We have a multi million dollar competition with clubs and the nrl using millions of dollars worth of technologies and scientific processes but we have a bunch of refs from the ice age

SO you don't think the referees are doing anything at all to try and limit their errors and ref the games to the highest standard?

No I dont because they cant see the problem and are untouchable in the media

Can you honestly tell me you can see an improvement and a higher level of accountability with the refs ( as an organisation/"club") within the last 5 years?

I think it's ridiculous to suggest they don't do anything at all. I'd wager they spend hours upon hours of video sessions every week identifying situations they've made the wrong calls and figuring out strategies to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Nickman, I think they do the training and analysis. But the issue is unconscious bias, and some are just plain bad decision making like the Lodge penalty v Warriors. It doesn't affect just us, but other clubs as well. e.g. Roosters v Penrith game when Verrills was penalised for a tackle deemed to be dangerous.

We should never have been in that position though at the mercy of the ref on the last play. We (meaning the team AND the coach) need to take ownership of the loss and not blame it on others.

The fact that we were not good enough to beat Dragons, Brisbane and Parra in the last few weeks is solely on us and not due to external factors. Those 6 points would have had us in the 8.

[The Nickman]

I genuinely don't get all this hubbub about the Lodge penalty; he was hit high, he laid down, he got the penalty... which is literally what every single player who has been hit high since the video ref got brought in has done!

You want to be upset, be upset at the **** idiot who hit him high with a minute to go.

[gangrenous]

I genuinely don't get all this hubbub about the Lodge penalty; he was hit high, he laid down, he got the penalty... which is literally what every single player who has been hit high since the video ref got brought in has done!

You want to be upset, be upset at the **** idiot who hit him high with a minute to go.

It went against their rules. It was not a reportable offence.

[Northern Raider]

I genuinely don't get all this hubbub about the Lodge penalty; he was hit high, he laid down, he got the penalty... which is literally what every single player who has been hit high since the video ref got brought in has done!

You want to be upset, be upset at the **** idiot who hit him high with a minute to go.

Bunker can only rule if it's reportable. A tackle that slips up and brushes an opponent's head is not reportable.