2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
Some wasted spots in that side.
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- David Grant
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
2 forwards, a full back and an out of form dummy half, on the bench, what could go wrong
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- Raiders_Pat
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
I could understand persisting with Whitehead at second row if we named Mooney on the bench to sub on for him at some stage but otherwise it's a horrible selection. No surprises at all here with the 17 though, pretty much what I expected Ricky to pick if Nicoll-Klokstad was ready to go this week.
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
Yep- bloody bizarre.Raiders_Pat wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 4:11 pm I could understand persisting with Whitehead at second row if we named Mooney on the bench to sub on for him at some stage but otherwise it's a horrible selection. No surprises at all here with the 17 though, pretty much what I expected Ricky to pick if Nicoll-Klokstad was ready to go this week.
Such stupid team selections and Ricky will never learn.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
I dont even know what to make of that bench. Yuck.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
Agree. But if we can't ignore the impact on his form, why can the selection panel. Give Trev a bit of game time and give Starling a few weeks out of the spotlight
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Klokstadt could survive 10 mins at lock or backrow if he has to chip in. Not the worst #14 choice.
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
CNK should be in reserve grade not taking up butt space on our bench.
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#emptythetank
#emptythetank
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- Laurie Daley
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews
Agree, I can only presume its Ricky's way of saying we believe and support you
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
The only thing I can think of doing with that bench is bringing on CNK for Whitehead and shifting Kris to second row, CNK to centre.
What will actually happen though is Whitehead will have another disastrous and/or ineffectual 80 minutes and CNK will rot on the bench as a wasted bench spot as we inevitably get run down through fatigue.
Happy days and bring on that Ricky extension!
What will actually happen though is Whitehead will have another disastrous and/or ineffectual 80 minutes and CNK will rot on the bench as a wasted bench spot as we inevitably get run down through fatigue.
Happy days and bring on that Ricky extension!
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
I wouldn't worry too much about CNK on the bench. I can see a good old sticky Smokescreen in the works. Savage AND CNK swapping 1 hour before kickoff, the dragqueens won't no what hit em.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Canberra Raiders get back Jack Wighton, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad for Dragons showdown
Raiders five-eighth Jack Wighton will be back in action for the Raiders' Sunday afternoon game against the Dragons in Wollongong. Also returning is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad who was greenlit after a hamstring injury kept him sidelined late last month.
Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
Raiders five-eighth Jack Wighton will be back in action for the Raiders' Sunday afternoon game against the Dragons in Wollongong. Also returning is Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad who was greenlit after a hamstring injury kept him sidelined late last month.
Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Yeah I don't actually mind it. He is actually the closest thing we have to a utility player we have for backline coverage. However I seriously hope that Ricky resists the urge to 'hook' Savage if he makes an error.BadnMean wrote:Klokstadt could survive 10 mins at lock or backrow if he has to chip in. Not the worst #14 choice.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
The line up shows that the brains trust is again being too slow to identify when players are well below form, and that opportunity should really be provided to others. I understand the problems that also come with changing the team line up too often, that causes instability. But this isn't the first time this year, that many of the fans have identified where changes are needed well before the coaches... changes that eventually get made, but too late.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Savage will make one mistake, rick will dust his hands off and say “see, i told you all it was too early” and replace him with cnk. Savage will then learn his trade for the next 2 years in reggies with trey mooney before going elsewhere.
Dont delete this GE
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
*sigh*
This post is triggering me
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Just trying to think of a player who had made the mistakes that savage has and eventually come right. Maybe someone else can? I sincerely hope I’m wrong and we have the next Ryan Papenhuyzen on our hands but the concern for me is the errors are not able to be matured out of him. Star fullbacks are normally pretty solid and reliable from the get go and then they kick on from there with a bit more structure to their attack but some of his tackles and decisions have been well below average for the position he’s playing on field.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
ol EDIT fingers Rapana might have a thing or two to say about that
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly
The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity
Horsbrah this year has improved his handling errors significantly
The league is littered with players who had a loose carry in their first season or two who corrected it with time and maturity
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Love rapa and horse but they still drop the ball.
I’m talking about elite fullbacks like we all hope this kid will be.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
I’d be interested in the Stats, but I don’t reckon Rapana would be at Savages level. Someone told me Xavier had set a new record, but I don’t know whether that’s true or not. Steve Marvin may have had more in one game than Savage this season.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows
Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333
Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
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- David Furner
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Preach!!Botman wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 7:18 pmWho ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows
Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333
Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Savage needs to improve his handling, there is no doubt about that. His loose carries in heavy contact is something that needs correcting.
But we're very much blowing this out of proportion too. He touches the footy a lot, his nature is going to lead to more high variance play, which means more errors... but he's not CLOSE to what some people seem to think he is.
But we're very much blowing this out of proportion too. He touches the footy a lot, his nature is going to lead to more high variance play, which means more errors... but he's not CLOSE to what some people seem to think he is.
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- David Furner
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Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
It’s a shame - I was starting to think it might be a good idea to throw the bank at Burton on November 1 - now I’ve seen that error rate it’s clear he’ll never make it.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Yeah I’ll have to word him up about that one. I don’t know if he’s going to give me a caveat around a certain type of error.Botman wrote:Who ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows
Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333
Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
But he is a Dragons fan and was defending Zac Lomax who I said was a walking error machine.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Zac Lomax, 19 errors in 14 games
1.357142857
HIGER than Xavier Savage.
Next time you see him, please ask him to leave his shoes at the door
1.357142857
HIGER than Xavier Savage.
Next time you see him, please ask him to leave his shoes at the door
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
what happens if you limit that to just games he started?Botman wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 7:18 pmWho ever told you that wouldn’t know his **** from his elbows
Some context around Savages errors:
Name Games Errors Average
Xavier Savage 9 12 1.333333333
Cody Walker 14 27 1.928571429
Lachlan Illias 14 24 1.714285714
Matt Burton 15 23 1.533333333
Reece Walsh 14 22 1.571428571
Nicho Hynes 14 19 1.357142857
Clint Gutherson 14 18 1.285714286
James Tedesco 14 15 1.071428571
S. Drinkwater 11 14 1.272727273
Kayln Ponga 12 13 1.083333333
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
No idea. NRL stats made available the public arent mature enough to isolate that quickly. You'd need to go to the match stats where he didnt start, count up the non starts and the errors and remove them from the totals and redo it.
Id imagine since he's avaraging 1.3 errors a game and i remember a few errors in the games he came off the bench in, i would guess it wouldnt move the needle dramatically one or the other, and certain not put him in "record" terrirtory. But you're welcome to do that work.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
If you use the last 4 games (his starting sequence) and use NRL stats, he has either 12 errors or 10 errors, depending on how you are supposed to count them. So 2.5 errors per game at best, but more likely 3 per game.Botman wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 7:49 pmNo idea. NRL stats made available the public arent mature enough to isolate that quickly. You'd need to go to the match stats where he didnt start, count up the non starts and the errors and remove them from the totals and redo it.
Id imagine since he's avaraging 1.3 errors a game and i remember a few errors in the games he came off the bench in, i would guess it wouldnt move the needle dramatically one or the other, and certain not put him in "record" terrirtory. But you're welcome to do that work.
The depending on how you count them is because has two instances of having one more handling error in a game than total errors. Not sure how that works.
This doesn't include his couple of terrible defensive efforts.
I think we all can see how exciting he is and all want him to succeed. But you have to be realistic about the numbers and not skew them based on 5 minute appearances from the bench.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
NRL.com also credit him with 5 errors against the knights and 4 against the broncos... i'd have to watch the game but boy that strikes me as off! haha. But my skepticism and long standing preference of Fox Sports stats over NRL aside, we have two very high error count games which account for, and using your words 75% at best, but more likely 90% of his errors.
So we have a 50% of your sample size that says he's 2-3 errors a game, which is very bad
And we have 50% of your sample size that says he's 1 error per game, which is fine
Edit: Just on this
So we have a 50% of your sample size that says he's 2-3 errors a game, which is very bad
And we have 50% of your sample size that says he's 1 error per game, which is fine
Edit: Just on this
It also doesnt credit him for a couple of the great defensive efforts he's made either. He saved a couple of tries and 40-20's that only he and his speed allowed him to save. So it's not all one way traffic on that front.
Last edited by Botman on June 28, 2022, 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
I'll add that Jack went through a period where he made a heap of errors at FB and Sticky backed him. I hope Sticky does similar with Savage too, as long Savage's confidence doesn't get shaken by being manhandled on both sides of the ball once or twice a game. No sign of that yet - he is still attacking the ball and line all the time.
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
Prob the club needs to look at the scenario if neither is the future.Botman wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 8:23 pm Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
Re: 2022 Rd 16 V Dragons: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*
The club has already tacitly admitted CNK is not the future. It very well maybe is Savage isnt either. I want to keep stressing this. I am a big defender of Savage and want him to play but i am by no means rusted on thinking this guy is an NRL fullback of the future, let alone a star fullback. We need to perservre with him but yes, there is a very real, and ill say it again as i have many times, very likely chance that Savage is just a winger. (And what level, that also remains to be seen)...lightning wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 8:26 pmProb the club needs to look at the scenario if neither is the future.Botman wrote: ↑June 28, 2022, 8:23 pm Which player do you believe he is? Entirely each posters perogative. Me? I say 4 games and even the 6 he has started is not enough to say. He needs more time. We as a club need more time to properly assess that. CNK should not play another minute of fullback this season unless injury/suspension/sin bin necessitates it
but for now, where we are in this season and where this squad is in it's team building process in regards to winning a comp.... Savage must (IMO anyways) play this year out at fullback. And then lets figure out how we feel about him with a greater body of work to assess
Last edited by Botman on June 28, 2022, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.