This is not rugby league

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GreenMachine
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by GreenMachine »

greeneyed wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:28 pm
papabear wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:26 pm Great move and I hope they stick to it, any head contact should be a penalty.
A penalty is quite different to being sin binned or sent off, however. There are accidents in a contact sport.
Yep.
And if this weekend is the line in the sand, let’s see that maintained through Origin and Finals...
I bet it doesn’t and Papalli was just scapegoated because V’landys shot from the hip ..again.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by greeneyed »

T_R wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:55 pm Can anyone think of a sport that consistently changes rules midseason other than the NRL? It's bloody weird.
It’s not weird. It’s maladministration.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by rayden83 »

I agree with the rule change but some playing have problems with their technique, eg Tedesco, where they are constantly falling into tackles. Why should a player be sin binned or sent off when a player loses their footing or crouches into a tackle? What is a defender supposed to do? Avoid using their arms?

Papalii’s shot was probably a send off but I noticed there was an identical hit in the Sharks v Rabbitohs game and that player only got ten in the bin.

Essentially they need to adopt the same process as rugby where the video ref and on field ref collaborate to determine if there are mitigating factors and whether it warrants a send off. It will slow the game down but will ensure more consistent refereeing in regards to sin bins and send offs.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by myanonymoususername »

raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
I'm staggered by the number of NRL fans who seem to enjoy concussion as a design feature of the sport.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by RedRaider »

Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Finchy »

Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:45 pm
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
No. You really are.
I’m very squarely on a side of this fence on this. You’ve misread it dreadfully, Dubs
Just waiting for Nickman, gangers, and GE to jump in with a “Stop attacking raiderskater the only female in the room. She has a different perspective you may not have considered. It’s clear (no matter what you say) that you intended to be offensive. Stop being so defensive and just apologise already.”

Wait, that only happens when I say something? Oh ok, cool...
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Crash Ball »

raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
There are plenty of non contact sports for you to follow.

Please stop infantilizing the players. They are aware of the risks.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Vintagecrop »

T_R wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:55 pm Can anyone think of a sport that consistently changes rules midseason other than the NRL? It's bloody weird.
Union. Grew up with it. Played it. Used to understand it. Don't any more, and pretty much couldn't care less about it.

NRL is heading the same way IMHO. It's starting to remind me of Sevens - fast and boring.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Vintagecrop »

raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:58 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:45 pm
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
No. You really are.
I’m very squarely on a side of this fence on this. You’ve misread it dreadfully, Dubs
I'm holding my ground on this.

This is the sort of casual sexism that happens every day that is more harmful than you realise.

Do you know how tough you have to be to be a professional ballet dancer? How strong? How many hours and years of work it takes? Azza is stating that ballet dancers are not strong and not tough. And why did he pick ballet? Because it's predominantly a woman's sport. Azza stopped short of saying that the players have to "play like girls now", but that's absolutely what he meant, and that's absolutely harmful as an attitude.
Not predominantly a woman's 'sport'. Nijinsky, Nureyev, Baryshnikov, Hines - the biggest names from ballet in the last 100 years. All male. You are even more guilty of projecting your prejudice on another.

Stick to the main discussion and stop pointing fingers, please.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Vintagecrop »

raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:58 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:45 pm
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
No. You really are.
I’m very squarely on a side of this fence on this. You’ve misread it dreadfully, Dubs
I'm holding my ground on this.

This is the sort of casual sexism that happens every day that is more harmful than you realise.

Do you know how tough you have to be to be a professional ballet dancer? How strong? How many hours and years of work it takes? Azza is stating that ballet dancers are not strong and not tough. And why did he pick ballet? Because it's predominantly a woman's sport. Azza stopped short of saying that the players have to "play like girls now", but that's absolutely what he meant, and that's absolutely harmful as an attitude.
Not predominantly a woman's 'sport'. Nijinsky, Nureyev, Baryshnikov, Hines - the biggest names from ballet in the last 100 years. All male. You are even more guilty of projecting your prejudice on another.

Stick to the main discussion and stop pointing fingers, please.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Crash Ball »

Who’s world Ballet champion again?
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by BadnMean »

RedRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 11:50 pm Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
I was at Magic Round. Been a Raiders member on and off for 25 years.

Reaching the point now where if this is really going to be it then ok, I won't bother.

Yes it is accepted that things which grow the game are right and good. Most people accept that. But if you want to appeal to everybody , the very widest of all possibilities you run the risk of moving away from things which were once fundamental to the game. So have you really grown the game? Or just diluted it to the point more people find it palatable but it's pretty hard ti love anymore?
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

As someone said above, this is just a over reaction to the incompetence of the video and field referee in the Parra v Easts game where they stuffed up even after reviewing the incident of the Tedesco high tackle by Niukore and late knees by Brown into the ribs/kidney of a player lying on the ground. They should get it right in the first instance. The NRL are doing a lot of things right, like attempting to eradicate wrestling from the game. But the solution to this and slow play the balls being 6 agains - they need to be consistent so it's not a lottery. There's too much inconsistency between and during games. They need to be consistent now and not get to the point where discretion as to the use of the sin bin could decide games. That is going to create more controversy and I can see envisage a situation where someone changes direction and gets low gets hit in the head as a result, this is not usually a sin bin but could decide the fate of games and the competition.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by mick63 »

RedRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 11:50 pm Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
Yes.I’ve wondered why headgear isn’t mandatory in RL.
It seems like it’s a last resort move for all concerned and it does seem hard to imagine but if they want to truly make players safe it has to be considered.
Chances are that if the RL doesn’t implement headgear a court will in the future
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

T_R wrote:Can anyone think of a sport that consistently changes rules midseason other than the NRL? It's bloody weird.
V8’s are getting there. The last few seasons have seen rule changes if one manufacturer / team seems to have an advantage. They’ve changed qualifying formats mid season. To top it off, they’ve just announced Gen III will be getting rolled out MID 2022. Mid…. So they’ll be running one car at the start of the season, and changing cars for the second half.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by -PJ- »

They ruined the product years ago...

The whole video/bunker circus is to blame.

And all these rule changes. It’s what the fans want apparently.

RUBBISH.

Take me back to the 80s and 90s right now. One referee who either got it right or got it wrong.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by sprintman »

Legal reasons for new rules
Last edited by sprintman on May 16, 2021, 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vintagecrop
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Vintagecrop »

Crash Ball wrote: May 16, 2021, 12:53 am Who’s world Ballet champion again?
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by julian87 »

Stuart needs to get a grip.

Of all the sin bins/send offs, the Canberra ones were the most obvious. That Papalii tackle is like the exact reason they brought the changes in. Wighton’s was awkward but if someone did that to him we’d be crying for blood.

We were actually lucky because Hodgson should have been binned as well.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by julian87 »

mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 2:00 am
RedRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 11:50 pm Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
Yes.I’ve wondered why headgear isn’t mandatory in RL.
It seems like it’s a last resort move for all concerned and it does seem hard to imagine but if they want to truly make players safe it has to be considered.
Chances are that if the RL doesn’t implement headgear a court will in the future
Headgear does zero against concussion. All it does it lesser the chance of head cuts.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Botman »

julian87 wrote: May 16, 2021, 8:03 am
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 2:00 am
RedRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 11:50 pm Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
Yes.I’ve wondered why headgear isn’t mandatory in RL.
It seems like it’s a last resort move for all concerned and it does seem hard to imagine but if they want to truly make players safe it has to be considered.
Chances are that if the RL doesn’t implement headgear a court will in the future
Headgear does zero against concussion. All it does it lesser the chance of head cuts.
Correct
I’m staggered by the number of people who don’t know this. Concussion is the brain bouncing around your noggin, not a result of being hit in the head

Concussion can occur without a blow to the head at all.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by kiwi raider »

They've got to be seen to be protecting the head of players going forward. otherwise 10 years down the track they'll have 100's of players lining up court cases for CTE.
Football bodies have banned heading the ball in certain areas of the world especially in junior programmes.

Union did this 5 years ago, it makes it frustrating but theres no real option imo unless you want to run the risk of the sport being bankrupted down the track.
Players will adjust. Fans will adjust. just like the outcry when the shoulder charge was banned. It will change the game but we'll get over it.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

I think if we are serious about zero tolerance for head knocks we also have to keep attackers accountable. If you dip 50% of your running height in the last step, you're responsible not the defender. Tedesco vs Burr was a clear example. It was Tedesco's error in technique that cause the accident. Why not send him off for 10 minutes. And Teddy is repeat offender. His loading would be terrible at the judiciary.

This of course seems ludicrous. But if you're serious about eliminating head knocks - everyone has to be held accountable.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by RTW »

mick63 wrote:
RedRaider wrote: May 15, 2021, 11:50 pm Rugby League is a collision sport, but while we see every player wearing a mouth guard to protect their teeth there are only a few who wear head gear to protect their heads. I don't have a problem with the rules to reduce contact with the head. The long term effects of multiple concussions can not be denied. I don't understand why this is only changing in May 2021. Was it not also a problem in March 2021 when this competition began?? Has someone threatened a class action on the League which has made for the changes?

The six again rule is baffling in that there is zero consistency even within games, let alone between different Refs decision making. The desire to bring more fatigue into the game comes with an increase in actual playing time. This means there are more collisions between fewer rest periods and this in itself is likely to increase the possibility of injury (accidental or foul play) whether to the head or other parts of the body. For me the lack of consistency with the six again rule is the biggest turn off in the game. I sat with an Eels fan during our match against Parramatta. Neither of us could figure out why the six again was being applied in some circumstances but not others. There seems to be no accountability from the Refs as to why the calls are being made. Eventually fans will turn away from a game they can no longer understand.
Yes.I’ve wondered why headgear isn’t mandatory in RL.
It seems like it’s a last resort move for all concerned and it does seem hard to imagine but if they want to truly make players safe it has to be considered.
Chances are that if the RL doesn’t implement headgear a court will in the future
Many people don’t realise but Mouth guards actually play a greater role in decreasing concussion then headgear do. If your goal was to reduce concussion and you could only pick one then you would wear a mouth guard.


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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Canberra Milk »

Vintagecrop wrote: May 16, 2021, 12:39 am
T_R wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:55 pm Can anyone think of a sport that consistently changes rules midseason other than the NRL? It's bloody weird.
Union. Grew up with it. Played it. Used to understand it. Don't any more, and pretty much couldn't care less about it.

NRL is heading the same way IMHO. It's starting to remind me of Sevens - fast and boring.
7s and 9s yes, that's exactly the direction it's gone actually. Not to that extent obviously but has moved in that direction
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by mick63 »

So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
With the coming litigation regarding player welfare the technology will only improve regarding the efficacy of PPE .
These rules have all been in the book and havent been acted upon so that leaves the NRL in a tricky situation regarding their complicity in a legal action due to CTE.
The way this directive is being handled,ham fistedly and without due consultation,you have to consider that V’Landys has been given some advice to act immediately.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Also, while I am not a legal expert - the argument that the game will end up broke because of being sued for negligence seems farfetched. The game has a duty to properly inform participants of risk, and establish penalties for breaches of rules. They already do these things. There are more brutal sports, as others have noted.

This crackdown has everything to do with V'landy's vision for the game, and nothing to do with risk management. And V'landy's and many others have very different visions for what the game should be, and how it should be seen.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Botman »

mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
Concussion isn’t caused by impact to the head
It’s caused by the brain hitting the inside of the skull

With or without a helmet, when your head bounces off the turf, the brain still smashes against the side of the skull
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Crash Ball »

kiwi raider wrote: May 16, 2021, 8:12 am They've got to be seen to be protecting the head of players going forward. otherwise 10 years down the track they'll have 100's of players lining up court cases for CTE.
Looks up the principle of volenti non fit injuria. It’s unlikely any CTE case would even be attempted for a current player.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
With the coming litigation regarding player welfare the technology will only improve regarding the efficacy of PPE .
These rules have all been in the book and havent been acted upon so that leaves the NRL in a tricky situation regarding their complicity in a legal action due to CTE.
The way this directive is being handled,ham fistedly and without due consultation,you have to consider that V’Landys has been given some advice to act immediately.
It would be marginal at best with the headgears used in the NRL I believe.

Look at the NFL. Give them helmets and they start using their heads as offensive weapons haha. There are arguments there about getting rid of the helmet as players would use more self preservation going into contact.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:23 am
mick63 wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:17 am So a helmet wouldn’t lessen the impact on the brain when a players head bounced off the turf after being tackled?
Concussion isn’t caused by impact to the head
It’s caused by the brain hitting the inside of the skull

With or without a helmet, when your head bounces off the turf, the brain still smashes against the side of the skull
Yep. Helmeted headgear are more protection from tissue injury i.e. cuts and fractures. Doesn't help with concussion.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Crash Ball wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:23 am
kiwi raider wrote: May 16, 2021, 8:12 am They've got to be seen to be protecting the head of players going forward. otherwise 10 years down the track they'll have 100's of players lining up court cases for CTE.
Looks up the principle of volenti non fit injuria. It’s unlikely any CTE case would even be attempted for a current player.
Exactly. This is all about V'landy's clamoring for the approval of inner city soccer mums, and has nothing to do with risk management.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by Boomercm »

Boomercm wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:48 am
Crash Ball wrote: May 16, 2021, 9:23 am
kiwi raider wrote: May 16, 2021, 8:12 am They've got to be seen to be protecting the head of players going forward. otherwise 10 years down the track they'll have 100's of players lining up court cases for CTE.
Looks up the principle of volenti non fit injuria. It’s unlikely any CTE case would even be attempted for a current player.
Exactly. This is all about V'landy's clamoring for the approval of inner city soccer mums, and has nothing to do with risk management.
For the record, I suspect he truly believes that he needs to make these changes as he believes it will attract more and new fans.

I think this is false. We should be pitching the sport unapologetically as a gladiatorial but ethical contest - played by superheroes with a strong and discliplined code of ethics. Pandering to the inner city mob is a death spiral for a sport like league imo. Those folk will never like league no matter what you do.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by raiderskater »

Vintagecrop wrote: May 16, 2021, 12:50 am
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:58 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:45 pm
raiderskater wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:38 pm
Botman wrote: May 15, 2021, 9:13 pm Look, I didn’t read all that post
But I was mocking Stick’s sexist remarks, so thanks Dubs

You’re jumping at shadows.
No, I'm really not. And I know what you were referencing, but Azza's post was absolutely sexist.

But also, if you want to talk about toxic masculinity, this idea that our sport isn't tough or worth watching if men aren't having their brains scrambled like eggs is absolutely it.
No. You really are.
I’m very squarely on a side of this fence on this. You’ve misread it dreadfully, Dubs
I'm holding my ground on this.

This is the sort of casual sexism that happens every day that is more harmful than you realise.

Do you know how tough you have to be to be a professional ballet dancer? How strong? How many hours and years of work it takes? Azza is stating that ballet dancers are not strong and not tough. And why did he pick ballet? Because it's predominantly a woman's sport. Azza stopped short of saying that the players have to "play like girls now", but that's absolutely what he meant, and that's absolutely harmful as an attitude.
Not predominantly a woman's 'sport'. Nijinsky, Nureyev, Baryshnikov, Hines - the biggest names from ballet in the last 100 years. All male. You are even more guilty of projecting your prejudice on another.

Stick to the main discussion and stop pointing fingers, please.
And how many of those names, apart from Baryshnikov, do you think the average joe knows?

And if we're talking about male ballet dancers why did Azza reference tutus, which are traditionally only worn by women (except occasionally in satirical performances)?

You know damn well why Azza referenced tutus and what his comment meant. The fact that you're trying to defend it says it all, really.
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Re: This is not rugby league

Post by afgtnk »

Bart Simpson did ballet once didn't he?

Had a lot of potential too from memory.
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