CHN and Horsburgh

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Botman
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: April 7, 2021, 1:18 pm Holy ****, surely I'm having a bubble bath, mate!

I, ummmm, don't know who I drop for Sutton, but he should definitely have been in there. Probably Horsburgh.
Yeah it's Sutto in for Hors i think. Which is a shame for Hors but also the likelihood of all those guys being health for the long haul is pretty low so he'll get his chance.
But that's the same 10 players I'd have in our 17 as well
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Finchy »

The Nickman wrote: April 7, 2021, 1:06 pm Here's the pack I'd eventually be transitioning towards over the next two months:

8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. James
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. Guler
16. Horsburgh
17. CHN
Looks like Sid’s influence has finally rubbed off on you regarding Sutton haha
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

Yeah good call
Nickman and Sid really do hate Sutton, dont they?

Its a very strange agenda they're running here
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Seiffert82 »

Nickman has hated Sutton from the get-go. Sid was a slow burn.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Raiders666 »

Nickman hated Horsburgh more haha
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by cat »

Hors will be back before CHW , I wouldn't be surprised if CHW doesn't make it back this year.

Emre and Hors know their time is coming and we don't make those guys playing nsw cup feel separate to the team.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

Not based on this week's team selection
The problem Hors has that CHN doesnt is that there is a TON of middle third options. We can sustain injuries and suspension and he could still miss out

We had Young miss one game and immediately had to turn to a big bodied centre to fill the edge spot. CHN can play middle and edge, Hors cant hang on the edge. So i dont know that you're going to be right on that, Cat
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Azza »

We need to cash in on this depth while we have it. It won't last long. Time for us to win the comp, and that right soon.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by simo »

Disgusting stuff from The Sidman. Would we trade horsbrah to the dogs for cotric back?
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by rayden83 »

All this talk about trading Hors is making me nauseous. Imagine if we let Papa go before he hit his prime? Hors has significant upside, like Papa esque upside. Was Papa definitely better at 23 than Hors? Dunno, possibly not, fringe SOS player back then.

Sutton and James having a few good games doesn’t usurp one of our best prospects. Maybe I overrate him but he runs hard, hits hard and bends the line. I see Matthew Scott capability in him. James has fancy footwork. Sutton is Papalii lite.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

I cant agree comparing Hors to Papa
Not comparable in talent or athleticism

still, you'd not want to lose Hors because you hung on to Sia or Lui too long. But James is not in this conversation. He's shown he is an impact player better than Hors and even my guy Guler right now. And Sutton has probably always been better than him. Guler too for me but others seem to disagree

if we're going to lose a young middle and i think maybe we will as much as it pains me... Sutton, Guler, Young are HARD no's. Hors i would very relucently and sadly accept as just the nature of the business and understand it may look in hindsight like a bad decision
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by pickles »

Botman wrote:It's also important to remember whilst we fans might have some concerns, there has not been a peep out of the boys playing NSW Cup thus far. And its early days yet, but i think it does speak a little bit to the culture of the club. They're not looking for shortcuts, they're trying to forcen their way in
I’d say the position of these players at the moment is 100% about culture. Ricky has set a high standard for the team and is fortunate enough to have the depth to make it stick.

They will get their opportunity over the season through injury or rotation and it will be up to them to be too good to replace.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by pickles »

rayden83 wrote:All this talk about trading Hors is making me nauseous. Imagine if we let Papa go before he hit his prime? Hors has significant upside, like Papa esque upside. Was Papa definitely better at 23 than Hors? Dunno, possibly not, fringe SOS player back then.

Sutton and James having a few good games doesn’t usurp one of our best prospects. Maybe I overrate him but he runs hard, hits hard and bends the line. I see Matthew Scott capability in him. James has fancy footwork. Sutton is Papalii lite.
This is a stretch. Hors is awesome and I love the way he rips in but he also has the capacity to massively overdo it at times. If he can learn to balance the passion and aggression and use them constructively at the right times then he will be on the journey to comparison with papalii.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by BadnMean »

rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:02 pm All this talk about trading Hors is making me nauseous. Imagine if we let Papa go before he hit his prime? Hors has significant upside, like Papa esque upside. Was Papa definitely better at 23 than Hors? Dunno, possibly not, fringe SOS player back then.

Sutton and James having a few good games doesn’t usurp one of our best prospects. Maybe I overrate him but he runs hard, hits hard and bends the line. I see Matthew Scott capability in him. James has fancy footwork. Sutton is Papalii lite.
Papa was taking on the best forwards in the game and owning them as a teenager- Gallen 2012, at his peak, Papa was 19. Not in the same stratosphere really.

Anyway I hope Hors shows us his best this year. He needs to put a run of games together.
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CHN and Horsburgh

Post by BJ »

I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Rick »

Imagine some of the Manly, Bulldogs, Cows, Tigers, knights fans looking in on these conversations and then also seeing some of the players we are rolling out into reserves each week.

Some sides are struggling to name 21 and we are rolling around with three hookers in our 17 all of whom would at least walk into another side and are naming CHN, Horse and Guler in seconds.


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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by rayden83 »

BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by rayden83 »

Rick wrote: April 7, 2021, 10:22 pm Imagine some of the Manly, Bulldogs, Cows, Tigers, knights fans looking in on these conversations and then also seeing some of the players we are rolling out into reserves each week.

Some sides are struggling to name 21 and we are rolling around with three hookers in our 17 all of whom would at least walk into another side and are naming CHN, Horse and Guler in seconds.


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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by I'm Bate Man »

rayden83 wrote:
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
Papa played Origin in 2013, he was a second rower and one of the best in the league for a long time before he went to prop.

Comparing Hors to Papa is just unfair on Hors, I don’t want to lose him but he’s never going to be as good as Papa.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by bonehead »

I'm happy with stick being patient with Hors, he's just come off a lisfranc and showed some lack of emotional control in matches - I'm comparing him to Nathan Brown from Parra in his need to learn some control and grow into his body

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by dubby »

Good comparison boney.

I think we'll see Lui released and Sia retire end of the year anyway.

Hors will get his chance this year, he's just got to work hard and RIP in at NSW Cup.

If this new Brisbane team is admitted I think we may lose big red to them tho.

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Northern Raider »

Yeah, Nathan Brown is a good comparison. He was a real hot head and would go on tilt pretty easily. Looks to have reined it in these days.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by twistedbydesign »

I'm not so concerned here, to be honest. Assuming they stay fit, the natural ebb and flow of an NRL season means that both these guys will get plenty of opportunities in the top grade. If they play to their ability they're both good enough to cement a role when these opportunities present, but neither is a 'must-pick' at this point IMO.

I like the Nathan Brown comp for Horsburgh as well. He has the game to be a real difference maker through his energy and physicality, but Papalii he is not.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Pete Cash »

The idea that Papalii only hit his stride by the time he was in his mid 20s is a bit silly.

Papalii was a gun from day 1 basically. Remember his game in 2011 against the Broncos ? There was a very brief period of time where he struggled with his weight, discipline and possibly motivation and started to perform badly until he was moved into the middle of the field where his build was now better suited for but that was an exception to his excellent career here. He has more or less always been in our best few players since debut

Like the guy has played at least one origin game every year since he made his debut for Queensland in 2013 and played for Australia before he was 23
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by BadnMean »

rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
What are you talking about? He was one of the best backrowers in the game for years before he was a prop.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by gergreg »

I'd expect the Papalii recency bias from so called NRL media experts, but not from our own fan base. Sure there have been some nupties play Origin or rep football but rarely do the nupties get selected year after year like Papalii has.

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

BadnMean wrote: April 8, 2021, 9:20 am
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
What are you talking about? He was one of the best backrowers in the game for years before he was a prop.
This thing came up about a month ago and i thought it was utterly wild, and still do
It is unfathomable that people, including Raiders fans forget the guy was one of the best 3-4 backrowers IN THE WORLD about about 5 years before his switch to the front row :lol:
And he did that playing mostly outside of Joshua Benardrick McCrone
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by dubby »

Papa was a beast of a backrower

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote: April 8, 2021, 9:20 am
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
What are you talking about? He was one of the best backrowers in the game for years before he was a prop.
Rayden obviously didn't watch too many Raiders games pre-2017. Also overlooks the fact that Papalii became a regular for QLD Origin and made the Australian team 4 years before he apparently "hit his stride". QLD team from 2013-2017 was pretty loaded too.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

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rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
Suddenly your posts in the Croker thread make more sense to me
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by rayden83 »

BadnMean wrote: April 8, 2021, 9:20 am
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
What are you talking about? He was one of the best backrowers in the game for years before he was a prop.
Even if this were true, he was still not a great middle back then. He only played one origin in 2015 and missed game three of 2016. He didn’t become an automatic selection for QLD until 2017. Lets not forget that he was dropped in 2018, and admitted needing to be dropped in 2014. He won his first Dally M accolade in 2020. Papalii is most definitely NOW a great player, but in order to get to that point he improved significantly. Same for Horsburgh, he is only 23 and has significant upside. It would be massive mistake to lose him to another club while propping up 30yo James and his fragile body.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Northern Raider »

Raider Azz wrote: April 8, 2021, 10:30 am
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
Suddenly your posts in the Croker thread make more sense to me
:lol: Not read those but I can guess. Croker didn't exist pre 2017?
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Northern Raider »

rayden83 wrote: April 8, 2021, 10:34 am
BadnMean wrote: April 8, 2021, 9:20 am
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 11:39 pm
BJ wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:55 pm I can’t put Hors even close to Papa over his first few seasons. That’s some rose coloured glasses.
Papa didn’t really hit his stride until 2017, as a 24-25yo. Until then he was a good prop, somewhat inconsistent, and definitely not a great prop. He was in and out of QLD SOS. I see a similar trajectory with Hors, if he can get a few seasons under his belt he can develop into a world class prop. I can’t say the same for James and Sutton. It would be an absolutely catastrophe if we lose Horsburgh.
What are you talking about? He was one of the best backrowers in the game for years before he was a prop.
Even if this were true, he was still not a great middle back then. He only played one origin in 2015 and missed game three of 2016. He didn’t become an automatic selection for QLD until 2017. Lets not forget that he was dropped in 2018, and admitted needing to be dropped in 2014. He won his first Dally M accolade in 2020. Papalii is most definitely NOW a great player, but in order to get to that point he improved significantly. Same for Horsburgh, he is only 23 and has significant upside. It would be massive mistake to lose him to another club while propping up 30yo James and his fragile body.
Paps was playing on as an edge forward back then.
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by Botman »

And he played middle in SOO and did so quite well, well enough to be a staple automatic selection for the most dominant SOO side in history and the key bench forward to spell guys like Matt Scott

I dont know what the **** we're even talking about here :lol:
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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Post by The Nickman »

**** me Daryl, rayden's net absolutely chock-filled with balls right now!
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