2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
1
10%
Raiders 1-12
7
70%
Storm 1-12
0
No votes
Storm 13+
2
20%
 
Total votes: 10

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afgtnk
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

RedRaider wrote: October 17, 2020, 10:14 am Just focusing on the right side for a moment. Next year we will be without an England International backrower and a SOO standard winger. At this point it would be rookie Timoko in the center for me with Rapa outside him. Backrow spot most likely CHN but he does not seem to be an 80 minute player so the right side will be shuffled in defence during matches. Hudson Young could be an 80 minute option on the right edge. He has the mobility and defensive game. I know he is being groomed as a middle but with Hors, Sutton and Guler to come back in, it would probably be better for the team if he was on an edge. Thoughts?
You can't be a backrower nowadays and not be able to play a full game. He'll be doing 80 come next season.

As for Young, I think he's clearly shown to be an average/mediocre edge player. His future is in the middle - unless he's temporarily filling in, he shouldn't be out on the edge.
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T_R
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by T_R »

Insult to injury, the Sunny Coast junior rugby grandfinals have been kicked out of Sunshine Coast Stadium in case Melbourne needs it for a recovery session.

What a bloody disgrace

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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amiafish
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by amiafish »

I think we pray too often at the altar of the mystical notion of "form".

Humans are not fungible widgets, but coaches would do better to behave as if they were. That is to say...

Rather than asking if so and so is "playing well", let us interrogate his essential attributes. Is he fast? Does he break tackles? Is he big and strong? Does he read attacking patterns well when pressed in defense? Et cetera, et cetera.

If our dear leader Ricky Stuart was wont to pursue such an analysis, what would he make of our back five?
Are they fast? No, not unless the word slow has surreptitiously swapped places with the word fast in the shorter Oxford.
Do they break tackles? Rapana hasn't seen the other side of a defensive line since 2018, CNK is where backline plays go to die, Croker would barely trouble a high school team these days, such is his physical decline. This leaves Cotric, who is leaving, and Valemi, who is but a babe in the woods.

I won't sport with you further by continuing the analysis. The direction of my thinking should be clear by now.

We need a younger backline, a faster backline, and a more skillful backline. Bellamy knew this, and revealed that the emperor had no clothes in the first 20 minutes. We can't continue picking on echoes of former glory, where the spirit may be willing, but the flesh is now too weak. Rugby League, like any other zero sum game, requires forward thinking that places the team ahead of the opposition. Ricky made no attempt to do this, instead falling back upon his fortress of green blood and heroic passion. But, speaking for myself as a fan, I am not interested in a noble death, but am seeking a feasible pathway to team growth and excellence. We need to get real...and make haste while getting it.
Begbie
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Begbie »

The only altar I bow down and pray to is to the True Lord and Saviour who Saved us all with his selfless acts and teachings. Big Mal.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by nachopants »

I hate to say it but I've finally come to the conclusion that we simply cannot win a grand final with Croker in our squad.
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afgtnk
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

amiafish wrote: October 17, 2020, 12:15 pm I think we pray too often at the altar of the mystical notion of "form".

Humans are not fungible widgets, but coaches would do better to behave as if they were. That is to say...

Rather than asking if so and so is "playing well", let us interrogate his essential attributes. Is he fast? Does he break tackles? Is he big and strong? Does he read attacking patterns well when pressed in defense? Et cetera, et cetera.

If our dear leader Ricky Stuart was wont to pursue such an analysis, what would he make of our back five?
Are they fast? No, not unless the word slow has surreptitiously swapped places with the word fast in the shorter Oxford.
Do they break tackles? Rapana hasn't seen the other side of a defensive line since 2018, CNK is where backline plays go to die, Croker would barely trouble a high school team these days, such is his physical decline. This leaves Cotric, who is leaving, and Valemi, who is but a babe in the woods.

I won't sport with you further by continuing the analysis. The direction of my thinking should be clear by now.

We need a younger backline, a faster backline, and a more skillful backline. Bellamy knew this, and revealed that the emperor had no clothes in the first 20 minutes. We can't continue picking on echoes of former glory, where the spirit may be willing, but the flesh is now too weak. Rugby League, like any other zero sum game, requires forward thinking that places the team ahead of the opposition. Ricky made no attempt to do this, instead falling back upon his fortress of green blood and heroic passion. But, speaking for myself as a fan, I am not interested in a noble death, but am seeking a feasible pathway to team growth and excellence. We need to get real...and make haste while getting it.
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sprintman
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by sprintman »

nachopants wrote: October 17, 2020, 1:22 pm I hate to say it but I've finally come to the conclusion that we simply cannot win a grand final with Croker in our squad.
I’ve been saying that for years
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gangrenous
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

afgtnk wrote: You don't post enough
I saw this previewed and thought - bet afgtnk is quoting me. Loves my posts.
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Azza
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Azza »

Yeah look I am glad many on here seem to share my view - we have the fundamental ingredients to challenge for a premiership, but are being badly held back by our deficiencies in the outside backs. It's dad's army out there, and just won't cut it in today's game. We need to be faster, stronger and more athletic at the back or else it'll be more of the same next year where we are good against the weaker sides, but find it hard to match the top guns.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by benda »

afgtnk wrote: October 17, 2020, 9:07 am
benda wrote: October 17, 2020, 8:33 am While it is disappointing we should remember ehat happened was realistic.
The travel would have killed the players. Cant play footy by travelling in and out on the same day.
We had injuries too.
And we were outplayed by a fresh side.

I wouldnt overthink this. Back to drawing board for 2021.
The Storm do and did, and comprehensively outplayed us.
The Storm did but not the whole season like us.
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greeneyed
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Keep trying to convince myself it’s been a good season. I’m failing. Just incredibly down and out.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: October 17, 2020, 2:24 pm
afgtnk wrote: You don't post enough
I saw this previewed and thought - bet afgtnk is quoting me. Loves my posts.
I was hoping it was me! Me! Let it be me!
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greeneyed
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

John Bateman bows out with unfinished business and parting words of hope for Canberra Raiders

It's been the best two years of his life, but the ending to his time with the Canberra Raiders has John Bateman open to an NRL return.

"I was pretty emotional out there and it was pretty tough to take. The loss got me," Bateman said. "The group of boys in there they've been me family. They've looked after me. Whenever I've had to go somewhere, whenever I've needed a shoulder to cry on, whenever I've needed some help the boys, the coaching staff as well, I couldn't ask for much more from them.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-league ... -c-1401650

'A fly on the wall': NRL coaches share heartwarming post-game moment: https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-league ... -c-1402508
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

greeneyed wrote: October 17, 2020, 3:05 pm Keep trying to convince myself it’s been a good season. I’m failing. Just incredibly down and out.
It's all good Fergus.

Come up to my place and we have a beer.

I'm ok today. Boney and I watched the boys last night. Yeah sure it's was horrible but hey..
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
#emptythetank :shock:
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-TW-
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:Keep trying to convince myself it’s been a good season. I’m failing. Just incredibly down and out.
Why? We lost our best player in round 9 and made the prelim.

We had the majority of the pack on the pine at times and still found ways to roll over teams.

Had a half preseason post 10 weeks break with all kinds of new rules, had to travel most weeks.

I'm disappointed, but imo that season is a pass considering.

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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

I think we've been very good.

We finished 5th and disposed of two mediocre teams with all our dramas.

I'm happy with that..
3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment..Old Faithful
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greeneyed
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

-PJ- wrote: October 17, 2020, 3:28 pm
greeneyed wrote: October 17, 2020, 3:05 pm Keep trying to convince myself it’s been a good season. I’m failing. Just incredibly down and out.
It's all good Fergus.

Come up to my place and we have a beer.

I'm ok today. Boney and I watched the boys last night. Yeah sure it's was horrible but hey..
Thanks PJ. Would love to when I’m up that way and the garage door is up!
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gangrenous
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

-PJ- wrote:I think we've been very good.

We finished 5th and disposed of two mediocre teams with all our dramas.

I'm happy with that..
One mediocre team and one very good team.

I think the narrative of the end of the Roosters season is overtaking reality. Still a very good team.
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Azza
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Azza »

-TW- wrote: October 17, 2020, 3:32 pm
greeneyed wrote:Keep trying to convince myself it’s been a good season. I’m failing. Just incredibly down and out.
Why? We lost our best player in round 9 and made the prelim.

We had the majority of the pack on the pine at times and still found ways to roll over teams.

Had a half preseason post 10 weeks break with all kinds of new rules, had to travel most weeks.

I'm disappointed, but imo that season is a pass considering.

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I think, like me, Steve is a bit over not winning the whole damn thing. We've been waiting a long time. It's nice to find positives, sure, and we did do well given our injury toll... but we didn't win. That sucks.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Begbie »

Yeah i think we are all in a big pit right now. We need to be kind to each other. Its not nice to get so far and drop out at the last hurdle. Overall we did really well but we need a premiership.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Johno »

Woke up after maybe too many drinks and felt bad, hangover and no GF next week.

But im really proud of our club, we faced adversity at a number of times this year, losing Hodgo, young hungry forwards injured, then Ryan Sutton goes down, the travel scenario.

Yes all excuses, but real excuses, we do need to look more dangerous in the backline, Sticky will know this, its his job to fix it.

Id love to know what money we have available in the cap given Cotric has freed up a chunk, maybe theres something in the wind..I hope so.

All in all....im proud of every single one of them.

2021 will be a very good year
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Whitty wrote: October 17, 2020, 9:26 am Has anyone on this forum been able to say that since Valemei has been starting, that you have felt confident that the outcome of any type of play (bomb, grubber, passing movement) towards his wing would be positive, ie. he would catch/tackle/stay in play ? He is quickly turning into the Albert Fulivai of wingers (some of you kids might have to look that up) I am baffled how he has been getting a jersey week after week, and last night only cemented my opinion of him.
Fulivai was a bloody decent winger! So is Valemei! Did you not watch the Roosters game last week?
Even Noa Nadruku had a few drama's under the high ball but in the end was a sensation, be patient
Valemei will be Noa 2.0 in 2021
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Begbie wrote: October 17, 2020, 12:42 pm The only altar I bow down and pray to is to the True Lord and Saviour who Saved us all with his selfless acts and teachings. Big Mal.
He touched us like it was the hand of god!
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by RedRaider »

afgtnk wrote: October 17, 2020, 10:32 am
RedRaider wrote: October 17, 2020, 10:14 am Just focusing on the right side for a moment. Next year we will be without an England International backrower and a SOO standard winger. At this point it would be rookie Timoko in the center for me with Rapa outside him. Backrow spot most likely CHN but he does not seem to be an 80 minute player so the right side will be shuffled in defence during matches. Hudson Young could be an 80 minute option on the right edge. He has the mobility and defensive game. I know he is being groomed as a middle but with Hors, Sutton and Guler to come back in, it would probably be better for the team if he was on an edge. Thoughts?
You can't be a backrower nowadays and not be able to play a full game. He'll be doing 80 come next season.

As for Young, I think he's clearly shown to be an average/mediocre edge player. His future is in the middle - unless he's temporarily filling in, he shouldn't be out on the edge.
Here's hoping that CHN has a big off season. Sticky has used him for mini-minutes in his time at the Club. I know he started behind the rest of our players but he has been with us for months now. I hope he becomes a gun for us on both sides of the football in 21.

Would you go with Timoko over Scott on the right or look outside the club? We should have some cap space after losing JB and Cotric.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Neeeegz »

Some thoughts..
Rapana is a winger.. great club man but should be pushing the young guys next year.. like Timoko and Shieldsmith who should be playing firsts ahead of him.
Our captain is solid, but now ineffective with Jack or Elliot running a centre line, so crokes gets little room...
So I think his form can be fixed by changing the left attack lines...
Corey was massive... he was one of the only raiders forwards to dominate the storm and make meters.
Right second row for coza next season.
Bye Johnny I was a critic. But want good things for you. Thanks for your time in green.
Thanks Nick. Hope the extra 30k per year is worth it.
George is the man to lead us to glory.
Wighton Has to run like a 5/8.. Not a left centre.
Semi will be a very good first grader next season.
Our weak points seem to be our centre position.
Ricky made a mistake not getting Starling in after 20 minutes. He helped us get to the prelim after all...
Good year. I believed
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: October 17, 2020, 6:27 am I think this game was lost 6 or so weeks ago, whenever it was that Timoko was named and Sticky ultimately replaced him with Valemei. From what they had both shown against first graders I had Timoko ahead on readiness. Being a centre meant that bringing him in would mean changing only the one spot. Leaving the established attacking and defensive combo of Croker and Cotric in tact and Rapana in his natural wing spot. Reshuffling for Valemei weakened both edges.

The second problem was the dour game plan. It was an excellent mid season adjustment that gave the team what was needed to strangle sub-par teams. But has consistently looked insufficient against the best teams. Not easy to do, but I think the plan needed more adjustment to beat the best teams in finals. Having said this, I think this paled in insignificance due to the backs issues since the game was over before the attacking tactics became an issue.

I was expecting that result last week actually. The team really played outstanding and surprised me knocking off the Roosters. I think they really put everything on the line last week for vengeance and it came off, and in doing so took a lot out of the tank. I know how stressful that game was to watch last week. Can’t imagine what it was like to play.

Overall the team has done really well this year. It’s been incredibly tough and they won a lot of games. We can only hope they can be as successful next year and maybe it’ll be our turn to knock off Storm in a prelim.
It's difficult to disagree that the selections in the backs were not, ultimately, critical.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Ticket shambles makes a mockery of Queensland's biosecurity red tape

So, it's unsafe for the Canberra Raiders to spend a couple of hours napping in a Brisbane hotel. But it's perfectly fine for 20,000 people to be crammed together like sardines trying to get into Lang Park. And then even safer to simply open the gates and let everyone flood in at once.

Welcome to another baffling chapter in the Queensland government's relationship with Canberra during the coronavirus pandemic. Let's hope for the ACT's sake there's no serious repercussions.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

greeneyed wrote: It's difficult to disagree that the selections in the backs were not, ultimately, critical.
Why phrased in so many negatives GE? Image

Is agreeing with me so distasteful that it has to be disguised? Image
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by MrPosh »

Just a few thoughts from an outsider...

Firstly, the Storm were insane yesterday. Watching the other final, they'd have put 50 on either of these sides.

The game was lost in the forwards. Paps has been ineffective in probably only one or two games in the last three years and it's a shame yesterday was another. Coupled with Taps, Whitehead and Bateman all being quiet, it was always going to be a struggle.

Rightly or wrongly, the game plan is based on forward dominance and it's unfair to blame the backs when they fail to pick up the pieces. That being said, a better balance is needed.

Croker is struggling. I think you could carry him if he was the weakest of the three quarters, but he's not. Only Cotric is better than him and that's going to be a problem next season.

I think Timoko and HSS have moved ahead of Valemi in people's minds because they haven't been in the team, getting their rookie errors out the way. Their time, and their mistakes, will come. The club desperately needs Scott to step up next year or to find a replacement for Cotric.

I also think the club needs to think of a succession plan for Sticky. So much of what he brings, particularly around the culture, is unrivalled anywhere, but some of the game plan and coaching needs a refresh. There should be a solution that gets the club all of this.

Finally, some perspective. I only started having an affinity for the club when Whitehead arrived, although I'm sure it will now outlast the Bradford connection.

At that point, the Raiders were clearly an afterthought. Not even relevant enough to be a laughing stock.

Five years on, you're disappointed about losing a Prelim final. The club has made a step change for the better and is rightly amongst the giants of the game once more.

These are good times for the Raiders and the quality of recruitment and youngsters coming through suggests it's a change that will last for a least a generation.
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2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

MrPosh wrote: The game was lost in the forwards. Paps has been ineffective in probably only one or two games in the last three years and it's a shame yesterday was another. Coupled with Taps, Whitehead and Bateman all being quiet, it was always going to be a struggle.

Rightly or wrongly, the game plan is based on forward dominance and it's unfair to blame the backs when they fail to pick up the pieces. That being said, a better balance is needed.

I think Timoko and HSS have moved ahead of Valemi in people's minds because they haven't been in the team, getting their rookie errors out the way. Their time, and their mistakes, will come. The club desperately needs Scott to step up next year or to find a replacement for Cotric.
I’m a fan of yours Mr. Posh and I think you’ve made some spot on points in that post, I’m going to ignore them and focus on the above that I disagree on.

Storm won that game pulling apart the edges in the first 20 minutes. The forwards didn’t have a chance to get into the game. There’s quite a few posters playing what ifs on the injuries this season - but I don’t think any of our injured players change the outcome last night except MAYBE simonsson.

Whilst it’s easy to say young gun x would be better when they’re not on the field to make errors, I think you’re underplaying the arguments for playing Timoko or HSS. A number of posters are on record of questioning this decision at the time it was made when the players had similar experience. But the most important component of the argument is that even if Timoko or HSS had the errors of Valemei, the fact that they’re centres meant that Rapana and Cotric would not have been shifted from their positions which fundamentally weakened both edges for the Raiders.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: October 17, 2020, 9:06 pm
MrPosh wrote: The game was lost in the forwards. Paps has been ineffective in probably only one or two games in the last three years and it's a shame yesterday was another. Coupled with Taps, Whitehead and Bateman all being quiet, it was always going to be a struggle.

Rightly or wrongly, the game plan is based on forward dominance and it's unfair to blame the backs when they fail to pick up the pieces. That being said, a better balance is needed.

I think Timoko and HSS have moved ahead of Valemi in people's minds because they haven't been in the team, getting their rookie errors out the way. Their time, and their mistakes, will come. The club desperately needs Scott to step up next year or to find a replacement for Cotric.
I’m a fan of yours Mr. Posh and I think you’ve made some spot on points in that post, I’m going to ignore them and focus on the above that I disagree on.

Storm won that game pulling apart the edges in the first 20 minutes. The forwards didn’t have a chance to get into the game. There’s quite a few posters playing what ifs on the injuries this season - but I don’t think any of our injured players change the outcome last night except MAYBE simonsson.

Whilst it’s easy to say young gun x would be better when they’re not on the field to make errors, I think you’re underplaying the arguments for playing Timoko or HSS. A number of posters are on record of questioning this decision at the time it was made when the players had similar experience. But the most important component of the argument is that even if Timoko or HSS had the errors of Valemei, the fact that they’re centres meant that Rapana and Cotric would not have been shifted from their positions which fundamentally weakened both edges for the Raiders.
I have to not disagree here. The forward battle never happened. There were lots of posters saying the selections in the backs were not the right calls, and I think, ultimately, they were proven not to be incorrect.
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by Azza »

greeneyed wrote: October 17, 2020, 9:11 pm
gangrenous wrote: October 17, 2020, 9:06 pm
MrPosh wrote: The game was lost in the forwards. Paps has been ineffective in probably only one or two games in the last three years and it's a shame yesterday was another. Coupled with Taps, Whitehead and Bateman all being quiet, it was always going to be a struggle.

Rightly or wrongly, the game plan is based on forward dominance and it's unfair to blame the backs when they fail to pick up the pieces. That being said, a better balance is needed.

I think Timoko and HSS have moved ahead of Valemi in people's minds because they haven't been in the team, getting their rookie errors out the way. Their time, and their mistakes, will come. The club desperately needs Scott to step up next year or to find a replacement for Cotric.
I’m a fan of yours Mr. Posh and I think you’ve made some spot on points in that post, I’m going to ignore them and focus on the above that I disagree on.

Storm won that game pulling apart the edges in the first 20 minutes. The forwards didn’t have a chance to get into the game. There’s quite a few posters playing what ifs on the injuries this season - but I don’t think any of our injured players change the outcome last night except MAYBE simonsson.

Whilst it’s easy to say young gun x would be better when they’re not on the field to make errors, I think you’re underplaying the arguments for playing Timoko or HSS. A number of posters are on record of questioning this decision at the time it was made when the players had similar experience. But the most important component of the argument is that even if Timoko or HSS had the errors of Valemei, the fact that they’re centres meant that Rapana and Cotric would not have been shifted from their positions which fundamentally weakened both edges for the Raiders.
I have to not disagree here. The forward battle never happened. There were lots of posters saying the selections in the backs were not the right calls, and I think, ultimately, they were proven not to be incorrect.
While I find it hard not to argue against the proposition you're not an idiot, in this case I'm afraid I'm going to have to not avoid making an exception to that scruple.
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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

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gangrenous
Laurie Daley
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Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

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BJ
Steve Walters
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Joined: February 2, 2007, 12:14 pm

Re: 2020 Finals Week 3 V Storm: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Yep Storm broke us apart out wide. I can’t place this on our forwards.

Storm didn’t play through the middle and instead decided to move the ball quickly to our edges. Smart coaching and perfect implementation of their gameplan.

I thought our interchange forwards came on and ran straighter and harder in both attack and defence. So well done them.

But Storm killed our outside back defensive structure and individual tackling techniques. I don’t see any other conclusion.
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