The Politics Thread 2020

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Manbush
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Manbush »

“Forget testing, ventilators, and PPE. Donald Trump’s big plan to beat COVID-19 involved distributing millions of doses of an unproven drug. Behind the scenes, senior administration officials pushed hard to bend the rules and back up his boasts.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04 ... aster-plan

Placed all his hope and confidence in a drug which looks to now do more harm than good so what does he do when that plan fails, starts talking about injecting disinfectants😂
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-TW-
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by -TW- »

One way to eradicate half the American population.

I can see his response "We had tremendous success against the virus, tremendous. A lot of Americans took a sacrifice in the fight against the virus but in the end we overcome it"

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by gangrenous »

https://www.news.com.au/finance/why-mal ... 56d1b1418f

Joe Hildebrand opining along similar lines to our discussion last year. Reform in our democracy only really able to be brought about by the party most ideologically opposed to it.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Sterlk »

Alan Jones is calling it quits on his radio career.

I wonder if it was voluntary, or 'voluntary'.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by BJ »

Sterlk wrote:Alan Jones is calling it quits on his radio career.

I wonder if it was voluntary, or 'voluntary'.
Probably claiming Jobkeeper payment too.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gergreg »

Fries n burger being tested for coronavirus.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by bonehead »

gergreg wrote:Fries n burger being tested for coronavirus.

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yesterday, cleared

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gergreg »

Where do people see this China/US pissing contest ending?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

War
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by BJ »

gergreg wrote:Where do people see this China/US pissing contest ending?

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With NZ becoming the world superpower and someone from Big Brother being the Australian Governor General.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by The Nickman »

gangrenous wrote:War
You serious? I don’t think it will get THAT far

And just on Trump, the best thing to come out of 2020 is going to be the US Presidential election when Trump gets fired into the ocean via catapult

That is, if he even MAKES it to the election
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Manbush »

The Nickman wrote: July 27, 2020, 7:30 am
gangrenous wrote:War
You serious? I don’t think it will get THAT far

And just on Trump, the best thing to come out of 2020 is going to be the US Presidential election when Trump gets fired into the ocean via catapult

That is, if he even MAKES it to the election
So you tipping he’ll lose this time mate?

It’s looking good and it’s the one positive from Covid but anything can happen it the next couple of months.

Also been reading ways he can legally retain office even if he loses.
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The Politics Thread 2020

Post by The Nickman »

Manbush wrote:
The Nickman wrote: July 27, 2020, 7:30 am
gangrenous wrote:War
You serious? I don’t think it will get THAT far

And just on Trump, the best thing to come out of 2020 is going to be the US Presidential election when Trump gets fired into the ocean via catapult

That is, if he even MAKES it to the election
So you tipping he’ll lose this time mate?

It’s looking good and it’s the one positive from Covid but anything can happen it the next couple of months.

Also been reading ways he can legally retain office even if he loses.
Yup, I’ve been saying it for months, as soon as it became apparent to me just how badly COVID was going to decimate America... he’s GOOOOONE at the end of the year
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

The Nickman wrote: July 27, 2020, 7:30 am
gangrenous wrote:War
You serious? I don’t think it will get THAT far

And just on Trump, the best thing to come out of 2020 is going to be the US Presidential election when Trump gets fired into the ocean via catapult

That is, if he even MAKES it to the election
I think that's the scariest thing. I'm legitimately concerned with what he will get up to between the Election being determined and Biden's inaugeration. He will have a good 2 months to burn the place to the ground and salt the ashes before he hands over to Joe and the catapault is set in place.

As messed up as it seems, I think him getting voted out could be just as bad as him getting four more years
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Manbush »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 27, 2020, 11:14 am
The Nickman wrote: July 27, 2020, 7:30 am
gangrenous wrote:War
You serious? I don’t think it will get THAT far

And just on Trump, the best thing to come out of 2020 is going to be the US Presidential election when Trump gets fired into the ocean via catapult

That is, if he even MAKES it to the election
I think that's the scariest thing. I'm legitimately concerned with what he will get up to between the Election being determined and Biden's inaugeration. He will have a good 2 months to burn the place to the ground and salt the ashes before he hands over to Joe and the catapault is set in place.

As messed up as it seems, I think him getting voted out could be just as bad as him getting four more years
Short term him being voted out could be worse but long term definitely for the better. He’s already setting up the idea the election is rigged if he loses, hell he said it was rigged when he won simply because he lost the popular vote.

What will his fan base do, what if he attempts to stay in office, he’s got his fan base pumped that it’s rigged and the Democrats hate America and want to destroy it, definitely a few interesting months to come.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »



Amazing.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:

Amazing.
Compare and contrast to the rambling tangerine buffoon.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by T_R »

Yep. Good viewing.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

Superannuation is a bit of a bug bear of mine.

Labor playing it off as if super protects the little man when in reality, I figure they are just playing the game because they likely want to keep industry super mates happy.

In the private sector everyone calculates a potential hire on there on cost to the business which includes super and pretty much everyone (up to a certain tax bracket) would prefer to receive the entirety of their salary package as opposed to 9.5 percent in super or 10 percent in super.

Honestly, it is beyond me that the so called party for the working man wants to increase super (thereby effectively decreasing the amount into the working mans pocket) whilst the so called party for the rich man is putting the breaks on super.

If it were up to me, super would be entirely discretionary with an upper limit on what you can kick in before it gets taxed as taxable income. Additionally, just give everyone at a certain age basic small pension and then people who worked but didn't accumulate sufficient super a slightly bigger hit.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by T_R »

papabear wrote:Superannuation is a bit of a bug bear of mine.

Labor playing it off as if super protects the little man when in reality, I figure they are just playing the game because they likely want to keep industry super mates happy.

In the private sector everyone calculates a potential hire on there on cost to the business which includes super and pretty much everyone (up to a certain tax bracket) would prefer to receive the entirety of their salary package as opposed to 9.5 percent in super or 10 percent in super.

Honestly, it is beyond me that the so called party for the working man wants to increase super (thereby effectively decreasing the amount into the working mans pocket) whilst the so called party for the rich man is putting the breaks on super.

If it were up to me, super would be entirely discretionary with an upper limit on what you can kick in before it gets taxed as taxable income. Additionally, just give everyone at a certain age basic small pension and then people who worked but didn't accumulate sufficient super a slightly bigger hit.
Unions own superfunds and use the money to fund Labor

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

papabear wrote: If it were up to me, super would be entirely discretionary with an upper limit on what you can kick in before it gets taxed as taxable income. Additionally, just give everyone at a certain age basic small pension and then people who worked but didn't accumulate sufficient super a slightly bigger hit.
Sounds like the current system except for enforcing some level of compulsory saving... Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

It would be a massive step backwards if superannuation were discretionary. There's no reason for governments to fund pensions except for those in extreme poverty. The reason it should be compulsory is that people have cognitive biases, which mean that they often fail to save adequately for retirement. Some argue that people are rational and should be able to choose when to consume and when to save over their lifetimes. But in reality most people find that decision far too difficult to calibrate... and then you have some who very deliberately decide to transfer the cost of their living expenses in retirement onto future taxpayers. And that's not really sustainable for public finances, when populations age. Giving everyone a pension is certainly not fiscally responsible or sustainable.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Botman »

I didnt know there were people against super...
It seems to me to be a very prudent measure to ensure people have the ability to live within their means into retirement without the need for significant government intervention.

I ask this genuinely, mandatory super seems like a slam dunk, no questions ask, great policy... why is it not?
I get that for SOME people they could probably better invest that money if it was in their hand and make greater returns on it, but to me that seems like a fairly minor inconvience to some people who are probably going to get by perfectly fine anyways to ensure a huge stack of people arent soley reliant on social security in their retirement.
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GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

Fair question

In no particular order
- I am libertarian
- I don’t like govt forcing capital flows in a certain direction I think it makes our companies globally less efficient as they have access to capital they probably wouldn’t have in a free market.
- I don’t like the idea of young people saving for a house losing 9.5 percent or ten percent or 12 percent that could assist in getting a house or whatever else they want to spend there money on.
- it takes money out of the small business economy...
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Northern Raider »

Super is a contribution paid by the employer on top of normal salary/wages. It is compulsory for them to pay it. It's not taking money away from the employee.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by T_R »

Northern Raider wrote: August 27, 2020, 10:58 am Super is a contribution paid by the employer on top of normal salary/wages. It is compulsory for them to pay it. It's not taking money away from the employee.
Well, yes and no. Under the Accord we had three years of 'wage restraint' to partially compensate companies.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Botman »

papabear wrote: August 26, 2020, 6:39 pm Fair question

In no particular order
- I am libertarian
- I don’t like govt forcing capital flows in a certain direction I think it makes our companies globally less efficient as they have access to capital they probably wouldn’t have in a free market.
- I don’t like the idea of young people saving for a house losing 9.5 percent or ten percent or 12 percent that could assist in getting a house or whatever else they want to spend there money on.
- it takes money out of the small business economy...
I dont much about the global markets, or the trickle down economics of small business but as NR said, the super is a mandatory contribution outside of normal wages, so the young people arent losing anything on that front.

Re: libertarian... this is interesting to me, because one thing that fascinates me are people who politically oppose policy on these rusted on labels they apply to themselves. Not that this is the case for you, as you've outlined other reasons for your dislike for super, but to me good policy is good policy... i think part of the problem with politics these days is there is no a lot of people or voters willing to accept good ideas from the other sides of the aisle.
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GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Libertarianism isn’t really consistent with making superannuation optional, but giving everyone a pension. Because the universal pension is a massive imposition on taxpayers... it’s just a compulsory transfer of wealth from future to current taxpayers. It’s not sustainable when taxpayers are a shrinking proportion of the population.

Libertarians would logically argue for no government pension at all, alongside optional superannuation.

But that is not a society I’d like to live in.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

Northern Raider wrote: August 27, 2020, 10:58 am Super is a contribution paid by the employer on top of normal salary/wages. It is compulsory for them to pay it. It's not taking money away from the employee.
In every small private company the employer considers the gross cost and of their cost add ons (ie payroll tax on or gear etc) when making a hire.

If compulsory super wasn’t a thing, I would pay the entire (super inclusive) package to the employee.

In my industry wages are negotiated on a higher a package (gross including super basis).

All industries are different but you can bet when it’s coming out of your company’s pocket you don’t think this guy (on 110k including super) is costing you 100k and bringing x value to the company or his / her market value is x, you think they are costing you 110k.

Just to reiterate I, as an employer, when making hiring or review decisions think about the gross and I can’t see any small business owner thinking differently... although they could... obviously.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

greeneyed wrote: August 27, 2020, 7:29 pm Libertarianism isn’t really consistent with making superannuation optional, but giving everyone a pension. Because the universal pension is a massive imposition on taxpayers... it’s just a compulsory transfer of wealth from future to current taxpayers. It’s not sustainable when taxpayers are a shrinking proportion of the population.

Libertarians would logically argue for no government pension at all, alongside optional superannuation.

But that is not a society I’d like to live in.
Lol like all good men I pick the label when it suits me ;)
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

Botman wrote: August 27, 2020, 7:19 pm
papabear wrote: August 26, 2020, 6:39 pm Fair question

In no particular order
- I am libertarian
- I don’t like govt forcing capital flows in a certain direction I think it makes our companies globally less efficient as they have access to capital they probably wouldn’t have in a free market.
- I don’t like the idea of young people saving for a house losing 9.5 percent or ten percent or 12 percent that could assist in getting a house or whatever else they want to spend there money on.
- it takes money out of the small business economy...
I dont much about the global markets, or the trickle down economics of small business but as NR said, the super is a mandatory contribution outside of normal wages, so the young people arent losing anything on that front.

Re: libertarian... this is interesting to me, because one thing that fascinates me are people who politically oppose policy on these rusted on labels they apply to themselves. Not that this is the case for you, as you've outlined other reasons for your dislike for super, but to me good policy is good policy... i think part of the problem with politics these days is there is no a lot of people or voters willing to accept good ideas from the other sides of the aisle.
Imo they are depending on which company / industry etc they work in...

Obviously it’s good for govt employees (and large corporates) but everyone else it probably isn’t.

See my reasoning in the post above.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Northern Raider »

papabear wrote: September 2, 2020, 5:02 pm
Northern Raider wrote: August 27, 2020, 10:58 am Super is a contribution paid by the employer on top of normal salary/wages. It is compulsory for them to pay it. It's not taking money away from the employee.
In every small private company the employer considers the gross cost and of their cost add ons (ie payroll tax on or gear etc) when making a hire.

If compulsory super wasn’t a thing, I would pay the entire (super inclusive) package to the employee.

In my industry wages are negotiated on a higher a package (gross including super basis).

All industries are different but you can bet when it’s coming out of your company’s pocket you don’t think this guy (on 110k including super) is costing you 100k and bringing x value to the company or his / her market value is x, you think they are costing you 110k.

Just to reiterate I, as an employer, when making hiring or review decisions think about the gross and I can’t see any small business owner thinking differently... although they could... obviously.
You might take that approach but many wouldn't. Hence it's a compulsory addition to base pay. Bottom line is people can't be trusted to put money aside for their own future.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

Northern Raider wrote: You might take that approach but many wouldn't. Hence it's a compulsory addition to base pay.
Disagree
Northern Raider wrote: Bottom line is people can't be trusted to put money aside for their own future.
Agree
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Northern Raider »

gangrenous wrote: September 2, 2020, 6:22 pm
Northern Raider wrote: You might take that approach but many wouldn't. Hence it's a compulsory addition to base pay.
Disagree
Northern Raider wrote: Bottom line is people can't be trusted to put money aside for their own future.
Agree
The point you disagree with. Do you think all employers would channel that money back into wages if it wasn't compulsory?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

I think in time that’s what it would revert to, yes.
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