Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 12:38 pm
Not saying this happens but throwing it out there. We all know that many player managers represent players for the sole benefit of the player manager. So consider this scenario:
Managers get circa 5% of the player's contract. Player X is at a club for $300k and coming off contract. That player's stock has risen and could probably earn $500k-$600k if he went to the open market. Club CEO is a canny business man not afraid to manipulate the system. He offers a $400k contract of which the manager's cut is $20k. On top of this he offers to pay the manager directly another $20k per annum for the contract period. From the manager's perspective the commission is equivalent to an $800k contract, which he knows will not be achievable. So his choices are earn $40k through that deal or shop around and do a ton of extra work to maybe earn $25k-$30k commission.
Manager therefore goes back to the player and says "Your current club is offering $400k. I've called around and other clubs are offering similar. You're in a good spot here so not worth moving when there's not financial benefit". Player listens to his manager believing it to be in his best interests.
Player re-signs with Club X without ever testing the market. The general league community questions how Club X can keep such a stacked roster under the cap. Commentators call it "roster management".
Sounds like it could be a thing.Those player manager cuts could easily be manipulated for players to get more bang for their buck.
Especially with the likes of uncle Nick wining and dining his select band of chosen player managers. As much as we hear about the player managers manipulating the clubs, there is nothing stopping the reverse from happening. I'm sure a lot of interesting deals are done on the golf course or through a boozy lunch.
My sitiuation is hypothetical. I have no idea who this "uncle Nick" is that you're referring to. But I'm happy to use this "uncle Nick" as the hypothetical NRL CEO.
Yes, it's feasible that "uncle Nick" could have a secondary agreement in place with particular player managers where they receive bulk payments separate to any NRL contracts. A bit like a retainer. In return he gets to keep players on his books well below their market value. It's therefore a negative incentive for the manager to shop players around unless of course that manager is working in the best interests of the player.
..... ....... .......
Sorry couldn't keep a straight face with that last bit.
Yikes, apologies. You may know him as hubby, studmuffin or perhaps just 'Nick'.
Yeah, the whole player manager thing is a complete mess. The NRL should set up a central unit that players can work through to negotiate with clubs.
Who am I talking to here? Sieffert or Chachi?
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 12:38 pm
Not saying this happens but throwing it out there. We all know that many player managers represent players for the sole benefit of the player manager. So consider this scenario:
Managers get circa 5% of the player's contract. Player X is at a club for $300k and coming off contract. That player's stock has risen and could probably earn $500k-$600k if he went to the open market. Club CEO is a canny business man not afraid to manipulate the system. He offers a $400k contract of which the manager's cut is $20k. On top of this he offers to pay the manager directly another $20k per annum for the contract period. From the manager's perspective the commission is equivalent to an $800k contract, which he knows will not be achievable. So his choices are earn $40k through that deal or shop around and do a ton of extra work to maybe earn $25k-$30k commission.
Manager therefore goes back to the player and says "Your current club is offering $400k. I've called around and other clubs are offering similar. You're in a good spot here so not worth moving when there's not financial benefit". Player listens to his manager believing it to be in his best interests.
Player re-signs with Club X without ever testing the market. The general league community questions how Club X can keep such a stacked roster under the cap. Commentators call it "roster management".
Sounds like it could be a thing.Those player manager cuts could easily be manipulated for players to get more bang for their buck.
Especially with the likes of uncle Nick wining and dining his select band of chosen player managers. As much as we hear about the player managers manipulating the clubs, there is nothing stopping the reverse from happening. I'm sure a lot of interesting deals are done on the golf course or through a boozy lunch.
My sitiuation is hypothetical. I have no idea who this "uncle Nick" is that you're referring to. But I'm happy to use this "uncle Nick" as the hypothetical NRL CEO.
Yes, it's feasible that "uncle Nick" could have a secondary agreement in place with particular player managers where they receive bulk payments separate to any NRL contracts. A bit like a retainer. In return he gets to keep players on his books well below their market value. It's therefore a negative incentive for the manager to shop players around unless of course that manager is working in the best interests of the player.
..... ....... .......
Sorry couldn't keep a straight face with that last bit.
Yikes, apologies. You may know him as hubby, studmuffin or perhaps just 'Nick'.
Yeah, the whole player manager thing is a complete mess. The NRL should set up a central unit that players can work through to negotiate with clubs.
So, I just read that the roosters will be signing SBW for between 50-75k. That's a bit of a joke. Typical roosters fashion though, just how they like it.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 4:44 pm
On his Wolfpack form it sounds about right.
You can bet your bottom dollar he will come over here be a huge reason why the roosters make the grand final and/or win the premiership.
Where does he play? He's not a middle forward. Cordner and Crichton are starting 2nd rowers. If he's replacing someone like Tupouniua on the bench I don't see it improving their squad.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
GMGT wrote:So, I just read that the roosters will be signing SBW for between 50-75k. That's a bit of a joke. Typical roosters fashion though, just how they like it.
Making the Salary Cap an even bigger joke than it is already. What happened to deemed market value?
Northern Raider wrote:Not saying this happens but throwing it out there. We all know that many player managers represent players for the sole benefit of the player manager. So consider this scenario:
Managers get circa 5% of the player's contract. Player X is at a club for $300k and coming off contract. That player's stock has risen and could probably earn $500k-$600k if he went to the open market. Club CEO is a canny business man not afraid to manipulate the system. He offers a $400k contract of which the manager's cut is $20k. On top of this he offers to pay the manager directly another $20k per annum for the contract period. From the manager's perspective the commission is equivalent to an $800k contract, which he knows will not be achievable. So his choices are earn $40k through that deal or shop around and do a ton of extra work to maybe earn $25k-$30k commission.
Manager therefore goes back to the player and says "Your current club is offering $400k. I've called around and other clubs are offering similar. You're in a good spot here so not worth moving when there's not financial benefit". Player listens to his manager believing it to be in his best interests.
Player re-signs with Club X without ever testing the market. The general league community questions how Club X can keep such a stacked roster under the cap. Commentators call it "roster management".
I see you’ve gone to the Isaac Moses School of Management.
Throw in the Manager looking after the Coach, and how he can create a package deal of coach and x amount of represented players
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 4:44 pm
On his Wolfpack form it sounds about right.
You can bet your bottom dollar he will come over here be a huge reason why the roosters make the grand final and/or win the premiership.
Where does he play? He's not a middle forward. Cordner and Crichton are starting 2nd rowers. If he's replacing someone like Tupouniua on the bench I don't see it improving their squad.
So you're saying having SBW come on for 20-30 minutes a game doesn't improve their squad? Rightttt. Probably the best bench forward you could ever hope for really, except for Dave taylor of course
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 4:44 pm
On his Wolfpack form it sounds about right.
You can bet your bottom dollar he will come over here be a huge reason why the roosters make the grand final and/or win the premiership.
Where does he play? He's not a middle forward. Cordner and Crichton are starting 2nd rowers. If he's replacing someone like Tupouniua on the bench I don't see it improving their squad.
So you're saying having SBW come on for 20-30 minutes a game doesn't improve their squad? Rightttt. Probably the best bench forward you could ever hope for really, except for Dave taylor of course
Didn't answer the question
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 4:44 pm
On his Wolfpack form it sounds about right.
You can bet your bottom dollar he will come over here be a huge reason why the roosters make the grand final and/or win the premiership.
Where does he play? He's not a middle forward. Cordner and Crichton are starting 2nd rowers. If he's replacing someone like Tupouniua on the bench I don't see it improving their squad.
So you're saying having SBW come on for 20-30 minutes a game doesn't improve their squad? Rightttt. Probably the best bench forward you could ever hope for really, except for Dave taylor of course
Didn't answer the question
Who didn't answer the question? You?
I'll answer it again though, he plays off the bench.. one better he plays In the number 13 Jersey in place of Liu.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
He simply shouldn't be cleared by the NRL. His most recent market contract value is far in excess of what should be permitted on the Roosters' cap.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
He simply shouldn't be cleared by the NRL. His most recent market contract value is far in excess of what should be permitted on the Roosters' cap.
Maybe. It would be interesting to know what he's actually being offered. If he ends up only being able to play 6-7 games and they pay him $200k, that's not too far off the mark. I know he's being paid a ridiculous sum at Toronto, but seeing his recent performances, his real value in the NRL would be lucky to be more than $500k.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
5 games left in the most important part of the season... followed by a finals series to help the chooks go 3 in a row. He is an x factor and would be enormous off the bench. I must know a different sonny bill to everyone else though...
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
He simply shouldn't be cleared by the NRL. His most recent market contract value is far in excess of what should be permitted on the Roosters' cap.
Maybe. It would be interesting to know what he's actually being offered. If he ends up only being able to play 6-7 games and they pay him $200k, that's not too far off the mark. I know he's being paid a ridiculous sum at Toronto, but seeing his recent performances, his real value in the NRL would be lucky to be more than $500k.
Maybe a week ago I heard that the Roosters had 400k free on their cap. Then on one of the fox shows a couple of days ago i heard 300k. Tonight on NRL Live they said 200. Possibly the NRL itself could clarify (possibly they couldn't - they aren't auditors apparently). My first point is that SBW would probably be assessed for his value over the rest of the regular season, which as we all know is ludicrous because his value is actually in what he brings to a team who are playing in increasingly big games, which the Roosters are pretty much likely to be in up to and including the GF. So assessing him on ten or so future H&A games is clearly a bogus metric.
My second point is that SBW's value to some teams would be far greater than others, and who the hell are the NRL to make a hard judgement on that? Actually I'd be really happy if he came back and the Roosters fizzled anyway, because they don't need any cultural improvement, nor do they need a moderately sized, not all that fast back rower who wants to offload too much. But maybe that's wishful thinking.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
5 games left in the most important part of the season... followed by a finals series to help the chooks go 3 in a row. He is an x factor and would be enormous off the bench. I must know a different sonny bill to everyone else though...
Did you watch any of his games for toronto? He was legit garbage. And I mean so bad I dont think he'd get s look in with this current broncos side. Add 4 months of no game time.time ontop of that and I see zero value he brings to the nrl. That said knowing the chooks he'll magically rediscover his vintage form and wi them 3 in a row. No doubt.
But as it stands if you are even remotely suggesting he is a good.signing, I know you didn't watch any of his games for Toronto
GMGT wrote:You dont win premierships by "promoting from within" when you've just lost one of the best wingers in the comp and whilst your premiership window is open. Seriously. I thought you people were rugby league geniuses???
Yeah but at the same time, you don’t win premierships by buying big average players from other teams.
There was a comment that there were no decent outside backs out in the market to replace Cotric. So in that instance, I would prefer to promote a back from within, that buy a back for the sake of buying someone
Feel free to call me RickyRicky StickStick if you like. I will also accept Super Fui, King Brad, Kid Dynamite, Chocolate-Thunda... or Brad.
Nickman's love of NSW
NSW has done a superb job - 18/12/2020
NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. - 04/02/2021
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
5 games left in the most important part of the season... followed by a finals series to help the chooks go 3 in a row. He is an x factor and would be enormous off the bench. I must know a different sonny bill to everyone else though...
Did you watch any of his games for toronto? He was legit garbage. And I mean so bad I dont think he'd get s look in with this current broncos side. Add 4 months of no game time.time ontop of that and I see zero value he brings to the nrl. That said knowing the chooks he'll magically rediscover his vintage form and wi them 3 in a row. No doubt.
But as it stands if you are even remotely suggesting he is a good.signing, I know you didn't watch any of his games for Toronto
I'm sure he won't be expected to be the focal point for the Roosters. Robinson will slot him straight into Radford's role, being the link player and in the attacking zone targeting the weak defensive player.
The people thinking nothing of this signing because 'he's past it' will be whinging loudest when he actually goes alright.
You can bet your bottom dollar he will come over here be a huge reason why the roosters make the grand final and/or win the premiership.
Where does he play? He's not a middle forward. Cordner and Crichton are starting 2nd rowers. If he's replacing someone like Tupouniua on the bench I don't see it improving their squad.
So you're saying having SBW come on for 20-30 minutes a game doesn't improve their squad? Rightttt. Probably the best bench forward you could ever hope for really, except for Dave taylor of course
Didn't answer the question
Who didn't answer the question? You?
I'll answer it again though, he plays off the bench.. one better he plays In the number 13 Jersey in place of Liu.
Thanks for answering. Apologies if it confused you, although I thought it was pretty clear.
So you believe he could play middle forward in the NRL. Based on his Wolfpack form he would need to improve about 400% to provide any meaningful upgrade for the Roosters in that department. I'm not one of those people who believes he'll come straight in and replicate his performances from 6 years ago.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
He simply shouldn't be cleared by the NRL. His most recent market contract value is far in excess of what should be permitted on the Roosters' cap.
Agree with both of you.
He shouldn't be allowed to play for minimum cap impact.
With that being said, he is over the hill and if he eats into the playing time of their younger forwards, then great.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑July 23, 2020, 11:14 pm
By the time SBW gets a release, goes through his quarantine and gets NRL fit there will be about 5 games left in the regular season.
I'm not expecting him to have a huge impact to be honest.
5 games left in the most important part of the season... followed by a finals series to help the chooks go 3 in a row. He is an x factor and would be enormous off the bench. I must know a different sonny bill to everyone else though...
Did you watch any of his games for toronto? He was legit garbage. And I mean so bad I dont think he'd get s look in with this current broncos side. Add 4 months of no game time.time ontop of that and I see zero value he brings to the nrl. That said knowing the chooks he'll magically rediscover his vintage form and wi them 3 in a row. No doubt.
But as it stands if you are even remotely suggesting he is a good.signing, I know you didn't watch any of his games for Toronto
You're right, I didn't watch any of his Toronto games. I'm more in the boat of " knowing the chooks he'll magically rediscover his vintage form and win them 3 in a row. No doubt." That's the way I'm looking at it. The challenge of the nrl and another premiership will light a fire underneath him.
.......
. We're never playing poker.
