What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

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The Nickman
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by The Nickman »

Matt wrote: January 7, 2020, 11:06 am
The Nickman wrote: January 6, 2020, 1:36 pm Ok, I'm going to have a crack at this before I read anyone else's teams... here goes:

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker (c)
4. Leilua
5. Scott
6. Wighton
7. GWilliams
8. Paps
9. Hodgo (c)
10. Sia
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tarps

14. Simonsson
15. Havili
16. Horse
17. Guler

How'd I go??
Simmo and Havili?!?! Pretty sure you are going to have to pick 1, as Lui or Sutton will likely be the other.
This is how I've always said it should be done, and this is MY best 17. Havili could easily cover a running forward spot on the bench, I just don't think Stuart uses him effectively. With this team you have cover for ALL positions and Havili isn't a "wasted" spot at all.
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by simo »

The Nickman wrote: January 7, 2020, 11:51 am
Matt wrote: January 7, 2020, 11:06 am
The Nickman wrote: January 6, 2020, 1:36 pm Ok, I'm going to have a crack at this before I read anyone else's teams... here goes:

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker (c)
4. Leilua
5. Scott
6. Wighton
7. GWilliams
8. Paps
9. Hodgo (c)
10. Sia
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tarps

14. Simonsson
15. Havili
16. Horse
17. Guler

How'd I go??
Simmo and Havili?!?! Pretty sure you are going to have to pick 1, as Lui or Sutton will likely be the other.
This is how I've always said it should be done, and this is MY best 17. Havili could easily cover a running forward spot on the bench, I just don't think Stuart uses him effectively. With this team you have cover for ALL positions and Havili isn't a "wasted" spot at all.
Wonder if simmos doing some training to pinch cover hooker
Dont delete this GE
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greeneyed
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by greeneyed »

This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
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The Nickman
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:04 pm This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
Hey Ferg, I agree on the spine, but not necessarily the backrow. I'm still not convinced Bateman and Tapine aren't the wrong way around and I know a few people believe the same.
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greeneyed
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by greeneyed »

No worries, I will go with what everyone would like. I’ll still assess the contenders in every position... and the depth in every position.
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

GE is going to put Alan Tongue in the No. 14 poll.
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by zim »

1. Wighton
2. Cotric
3. Scott
4. Leilua
5. CNK
6. G Williams
7. Hodgson
8. Papalii
9. Havili
10. Horsburgh
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. J Bateman

14. Croker
15. Guler
16. Soliola
17. Tapine
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Matt
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:04 pm This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
Ive heard that young Josh Papalii bloke goes alright, you can probably slate him down at prop.
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Matt
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Matt »

The Nickman wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:11 pm
greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:04 pm This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
Hey Ferg, I agree on the spine, but not necessarily the backrow. I'm still not convinced Bateman and Tapine aren't the wrong way around and I know a few people believe the same.
I do too, but I think Ricky showed that switching them last yr wasnt exactly a mistake.
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greeneyed
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Matt wrote: January 7, 2020, 1:06 pm
greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:04 pm This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
Ive heard that young Josh Papalii bloke goes alright, you can probably slate him down at prop.
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The Nickman
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by The Nickman »

Papalii is a lock now?? These polls are getting ridiculous!!
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Matt
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Matt »

The Nickman wrote: January 7, 2020, 1:37 pm Papalii is a lock now?? These polls are getting ridiculous!!
:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Matt »

greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 1:16 pm
Matt wrote: January 7, 2020, 1:06 pm
greeneyed wrote: January 7, 2020, 12:04 pm This week we will start up our series on “The Contenders”. We will supplement with polls for contentious positions.

I’m proposing that we take these positions as a “lock”... so no poll required this year... subject to comments from others.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
9. Josh Hodgson

Tempted to make

11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

“locks” as well.

Meaning we’d have polls for centres, wingers, starting props, bench.

Not to imply that some players like Papalii are not a lock... just that the partner is up for debate.

Views?

We will determine The GH Choice strongest team from those polls and responses in this thread once we kick off.
Ive heard that young Josh Papalii bloke goes alright, you can probably slate him down at prop.
Honestly GE, there are probably 3 starting spots up for grabs, and one of those, prop (even if I suspect it will be Sia's), is a determining factor of the makeup of bench. My understanding would be, that there are 4 forwards slots available for 5 players, as it was last yr.

1. CNK
2. Cotric
3. Croker
4. BJ vs Scott
5. Scott vs Simmo
6. Jack
7. George Double U ( :lol: :lol: :lol: )
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Sia vs Lui vs Horse vs Guler vs Sutton
11. Bateman (according to Stuart)
12. Whitey
13. Tarpz (according to Stuart)

14. Simmo vs Scott vs BJ vs Havili vs Smalling vs ???
15. Sia vs Lui vs Horse vs Guler vs Sutton
16. Sia vs Lui vs Horse vs Guler vs Sutton
17. Sia vs Lui vs Horse vs Guler vs Sutton
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greeneyed
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Yes, but it will probably be more practicable to set up polls for centres, wingers, starting props, second rowers pairings, giving people two choices in the polls.

Alternatively... no polls and people list their team. Which would have the advantage of transparency for the smart alec responses.
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Johno
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by Johno »

Given BJ's history, it shouldn't be too long before he misses games and Scott goes to centre and Simmo on the wing
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Re: Strongest 17 for 2020

Post by BadnMean »

Johno wrote: January 7, 2020, 2:39 pm Given BJ's history, it shouldn't be too long before he misses games and Scott goes to centre and Simmo on the wing
To be fair to Joey, I think that idea gets a bit overblown around league fan circles.

BJ played 24 or 25 games for us each and every year in 2016, 2017, 2018. Same or more over those three years as guys (rightly) regarded as reliable iron men like Whitehead, Toots, Wighton (civic suspension aside).

But he gets no credit for it.
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, we started doing something a little different last year - assessing "The contenders" for each position and inviting you to have your say... and to post your strongest possible team.

Now we are in the New Year, and the Raiders' top 30 is close to final, we'll kick off a new series of articles... "Locks and contenders". Why the change in title? Any team that makes the Grand Final has quite a few positions locked down.

The team lists that you post in this thread will be collated into a consensus view on the Canberra Raiders strongest possible 2020 line up. We might even supplement the lists with some polls for the contentious positions.

Remember, when posting your top 17 squad - it should be irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals!

Locks and contenders

Fullback

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At this time last year, Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad was a fringe player for the New Zealand Warriors. As 2018 drew to a close, it seemed likely Jack Wighton would again line up at fullback. But Wighton's shift to five eighth threw the race for Canberra's No. 1 jersey wide open.

Nicoll-Klokstad joined the Raiders just days before the club started playing their trial matches for 2019. He wasn't exactly "Charzne who?" but he wasn't far from that for a lot of Raiders fans. Keen followers of the game knew he was a good young winger and a good signing for Canberra. He had to beat another bolter for the fullback job, Bailey Simonsson. But Nicoll-Klokstad looked much more assured at the back during the trials. He was named at No. 1 for Round 1 - but no-one would have expected he would finish 2019 as one of the top fullbacks in the NRL, voted the Canberra Raiders Fans' Choice Best Back, with a Grand Final appearance and a Kiwis jersey to his name.



Nicoll-Klokstad still has some things to improve in his game. He's safe under the high ball and is a brilliant runner. In 2019, he finished second in the NRL, to James Tedesco, for total running metres and finished first for kick return metres. He was in the top 10 players for running metres per game, and first for kick return metres per game amongst the regular fullbacks. He made five in goal escapes, more than any player in the NRL. He was seventh in the NRL for total tackle breaks - and first at the Raiders.

Nicoll-Klokstad's defence was good, with an 81 per cent tackle efficiency rate... in a tough spot to defend. More positively, he was credited with only seven try causes and four line breaks conceded, which was close to the benchmark amongst NRL fullbacks.

The area where he'll be no doubt looking to improve is his ball playing. He had four try assists for the season, and three try contributions, but that was well down the list of fullbacks. He still finished fourth at the Raiders for total try involvements. In any case, Nicoll-Klokstad has an absolute lock on the No. 1 jersey for 2020. But what depth do the Raiders have in the position, in the unfortunate event of injury or suspension?

Two players who could handle fullback in the 2019 squad, Jordan Rapana and Brad Abbey, have now both left the club. Jack Wighton is the most experienced player in the team in the position. It is conceivable that he could be moved from five eighth to fullback in an emergency, with George and Sam Williams available to play in the halves. But there is virtually no chance of that happening. Wighton became indispensable at five eighth in 2019. Nick Cotric can also handle fullback at a pinch. He played fullback in junior grades and played five NRL games in the No. 1 in 2018, while Jack Wighton was sidelined. However, while he's played first grade games at fullback and centre, he didn't really look happy in either role.

That leaves Bailey Simonsson as the most likely cover at fullback. Simonsson deputised for Nicoll-Klokstad when he was rested in Round 25 last season - and he handled it pretty well. Bailey Simonsson was a Canberra Raiders junior in 2014, playing in the Harold Matthews team alongside the likes of Nick Cotric and centre partner Sebastian Kris. His father Paul Simonsson, a New Zealand rugby union player and North Sydney Bears winger, had settled the family in Canberra - and Bailey played junior footy with the West Belconnen Warriors. When Bailey Simonsson returned to the Green Machine late in 2018, aged 20, he'd played junior rugby league with the Canterbury Bulldogs and rugby union in New Zealand, including with the All Blacks Sevens team.

He signed a development contract with the Raiders just before Christmas 2018, after trialing with the club during the pre season. By the time the 2019 season commenced, he'd become a part of the top 30 squad, on a two year deal. Before the 2019 Meninga Medal night was over, he'd shared the Rookie of the Year award with Corey Horsburgh. And just before the Raiders' historic Preliminary Final in Canberra this year, he was rewarded with a long term contract, keeping him in the nation's capital until the end of 2023.

Simonsson played 21 first grade games in 2019, including the Grand Final. He started in 14 matches on the wing, one at centre, one at fullback and the rest on the bench.

Simonsson scored eight tries last season, ranking fourth at the Raiders - which is a pretty good strike rate for a player who was often filling in for other players... or injecting fresh legs off the bench. He ranked third at the club for average runs (14 per game), average running metres (114 per game) and line breaks (12). He ranked fifth for dummy half runs (30) and seventh for average tackles breaks (two per match). Obviously, it is fairly tough defending out on the wing, and he posted 10 try causes (third at the club) and nine line break causes (ranked sixth). Only Jordan Rapana had a lower tackle efficiency rate amongst the Raiders backs. That said, he produced some pretty memorable try savers, the best coming in the win over the Wests Tigers at Western Sydney Stadium. He ranked fourth for errors at the Raiders (18), but the number of penalties he conceded were very low.

Overall, Simonsson is a quality depth player for the fullback position - and is a player who will likely make the top 17 on the wing or on the bench in any case. But the fullback depth does look a little thin overall.

The Raiders also have Andre Niko in their squad as a fullback - but as he's a development player, he won't be able to play first grade in the first half of the season, unless there is an injury crisis and it is approved by the NRL. He has shown a good deal of potential in junior grades - but has looked stronger on the wing. Harley Smith-Shields has been promoted to the top 30 from Jersey Flegg for 2020 and can play fullback - but is much better as a centre or winger.

Tomorrow, we'll continue with a more contentious position - centres.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by Dusty »

I thought we’d moved on from all the Kocks at the club.


Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
2020: 1. Nicol-Klokstad 2. Cotric 3. Croker (c) 4 Leilua 5. Scott 6. Wighton 7. G. Williams 8. Papalii 9. Hodgson (c) 10. Sutton 11. J. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. Tapine ----
14. Simmonson 15. Soliola 16. Guler 17. Horsburgh
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

Every NRL club’s predicted Round 1 line-up and the biggest calls they have make

RAIDERS

Analysis: The biggest problem facing Ricky Stuart in 2020 is how to fit three class centres into two positions. The acquisition of former Storm centre Curtis Scott has added to the impressive pairing of skipper Jarrod Croker and Joey Leilua who got them to the Grand Final last season. Bailey Simonsson is tipped to fill Jordan Rapana’s vacant wing spot meaning Leilua or Scott could find themselves coming off the bench in the same role that Somonsson filled last season. English import George Williams will fill Aidan Sezer’s shoes at halfback. The Raiders’ pack is pretty much set in stone.

1. Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad
2. Nick Cotric
3. Jarrod Croker
4. Curtis Scott
5. Bailey Simonsson
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Sia Soliola
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Josh Papalii
11. John Bateman
12. Elliott Whitehead
13. Joe Tapine

14. Joey Leilua
15. Corey Horsburgh
16. Dunamis Lui
17. Emre Guler

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... bf6fffb73e

Raiders’ best 17: Why Leilua’s time in Canberra isn’t over – and the forward bolting for an Origin call: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... rOSNpoyuHg
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, we started doing something a little different last year - assessing "The contenders" for each position and inviting you to have your say... and to post your strongest possible team.

Now we are in the New Year, and the Raiders' top 30 is close to final, we'll kick off a new series of articles... "Locks and contenders". Why the change in title? Any team that makes the Grand Final has quite a few positions locked down.

The team lists that you post in this thread will be collated into a consensus view on the Canberra Raiders strongest possible 2020 line up. We will supplement the lists with some polls for the contentious positions.

Remember, when posting your top 17 squad - it should be irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals!

Locks and contenders

Centres

Image

At this time last year, I wrote this: "Jarrod Croker and Joey Leilua are the Raiders incumbent centres - and there's virtually no doubt that is where they'll line up."

That's not quite the case today. While co-captain Jarrod Croker is a "lock" at left centre, the recruitment of Melbourne Storm centre Curtis Scott - and indications from the Raiders that they'd be prepared to release Joey Leilua from his contract early - has thrown the right centre spot wide open.

The records kept tumbling for Canberra Raiders co-captain Jarrod Croker in 2019. He scored his 120th try against the Sharks in Canberra, equalling Jason Croker's record. He broke the record in Wollongong against the Dragons in Round 17... and that night became the youngest player ever in the NRL to score 1900 points. He went on to play his 250th game in green in Round 21 against the Roosters - the second youngest NRL player to do so. He is now the second most capped Raider of all time, overtaking Simon Woolford and Laurie Daley. He is the top Raiders' point scorer of all time, by a long way, and is now just four points away from 2000 career points.

Croker appeared in all 27 of the Canberra Raiders matches in 2019, after injury restricted him to just 17 games in 2018. He was the Raiders' top try scorer last year (13, up from seven in 2018). He was credited with 21 total try involvements, third at the Raiders behind Jack Wighton and Josh Hodgson. He ranked fifth in the try scoring stakes amongst NRL centres, and fourth for try involvements.

He was the top point scorer at the Raiders, his 228 points the fourth highest by any Raiders' player in a season. Only he (in 2016, 2015) and Clinton Schifcofske (2001) have scored more in a season. Only Latrell Mitchell scored more points in the NRL in 2018 than Croker. His goal kicking percentage (73) was down on his best (85 in 2013 and 77 in 2018) and the lowest of his career (just below the 74 recorded in 2012). It is no doubt it's something he'll want to lift in 2020.

Croker's average metres per game in 2019 (74m) were up on 2018 (69m), as were his metres per carry (10m, compared with 8.5m in 2018). His line breaks were up on a per match basis as well, compared with 2018... but his tackle breaks were down slightly on the same basis.

Croker's defence is the area of his game that has been often criticised. But as Ricky Stuart has said... he hears a lot about the tackles that Croker misses, but not the ones he makes. And that is probably borne out in his defensive statistics last season. He was credited with 21 try causes in 2019, the highest at the club and ranking top six for most in the NRL. But let's remember that it is very tough defending on the edges - and every player in the top 10 for try causes this year was an outside back or fullback. You also need to remember that sometimes, a player may be being asked to do particular things, as part of the overall defensive structure - and that might not always work out for an individual player. The Raiders still ended up with the third best defence in the NRL this season.

More positively, Croker's tackle efficiency rate lifted to 83 per cent in 2019 (80 per cent in 2018 and 78 per cent in 2017). There are 50 odd players who turned out at centre this season with a lower rate. He cut his missed tackles per game to 1.4 (1.8 in 2018) and lifted his one-on-one tackles to 1.4 per match (0.9 in 2019).

While there might be areas of his game that Croker will look to improve - and despite the calls from some fans to shift him to the wing - there is absolutely no doubt he'll be pulling on the No. 3 jersey in 2020.

Right centre, Joey Leilua had a tough year in 2019. He suffered a serious neck injury, one that could have ended his career, or worse. He woke up in pain on the morning of the Canberra Raiders' Round 8 clash with the Penrith Panthers in Wagga. He was a late withdrawal from the game and scans later revealed he has a bulging disc, requiring surgery. He was in great form over the opening seven rounds of the season and his loss was a serious blow for the Raiders. But Leilua went on to make a remarkable recovery from surgery, returning in the Round 22 clash with the Storm in Melbourne.

His finals campaign was eventful too. In Week 1, debris from fireworks lodged in his eye as he ran onto the field for the clash with the Melbourne Storm - delaying his entry in the match. Some fans were left wondering "what if" he'd passed to Jordan Rapana at a crucial stage in the second half of the Grand Final. But we know with Joey, there's always going be a stone or two amongst the diamonds. Sometimes things don't come off, but they do for Leilua more times than not.

It also emerged in September last year that the Raiders indicated that Leilua was free to test the market, after his manager approached the club about a contract extension beyond 2020 - and that the club would be prepared to release him early. Leilua has been linked to some other clubs, including the Canterbury Bulldogs and Wests Tigers, but there is no sign yet that he will be anywhere else this season.

To top it off, Leilua lost the other half of "Leipana", his wing parter, Rapana, at the end of the season - with Rapana departing for Japanese union. They became the most lethal right edge in the NRL in 2016, producing some magical attack. But in 2020, it will be no more - unless the NRL relents, allowing Rapana to return mid season.

Leilua made just 12 appearances for the Green Machine last year, so all his total numbers were down. But if you look at his contributions per match, he was an improved player in 2019 in a number of ways, when on the field. There is no doubt that Leilua is a very damaging attacking player, but his try scoring strike rate (four in 12 matches) was understandably down last season. His total try involvements, running metres (91) and tackle breaks (3.3) per match were down slightly as well. He made as many metres per carry (8.9) in 2019 as he did in 2018.

He continued to play a more controlled style in 2019, and his error count per match fell further. He'd already cut his error count from 31 in 2016 to 21 in 2018. He maintained the improvement in discipline that he achieved in 2018 - conceding about 0.7 penalties per game.

His defence improved. He registered an 88 per cent tackle efficiency rate in 2019, compared with 78 per cent in 2018 and 80 per cent in 2017. In 2018 he finished second, behind Blake Austin, for total try causes (17) at the Raiders, and was amongst the top 15 players in the NRL for tries conceded. He registered just one try cause in 2019. His missed tackle count fell from 1.6 per game in 2018 to just over one this year.

Will Leilua take the No. 4 jersey in 2020? In the modern world of rugby league, contracts don't seem to be worth the paper they're written on. So it wouldn't shock me if Leilua moved to another club before the end of his current deal. Just this week, one media figure with close contacts to the Raiders was tipping he'd make a move to the Wests Tigers before the middle of the year.

Given all that, it won't surprise if new recruit Curtis Scott takes the right centre position, with Leilua pushed to the bench. The Storm released Scott from his contract two years early to join the Raiders on a four year deal - and it seems likely that coach Ricky Stuart sees him as the club's long term starting centre.

Scott has played 48 games at centre for the Melbourne Storm, including two Grand Finals. At age 22, he already has one NRL premiership to his name. He is a Cronulla Sharks junior, captaining the Sharks' SG Ball to a premiership in 2015. He also played that year for the Sharks' NYC team, before being poached by the Melbourne Storm. He made his NRL debut for the Storm in Round 2 of 2016 against the Titans, but broke his leg in Round 4, ruling him out for the rest of the season. He broke back into first grade in the middle of 2017.

Scott had a disrupted 2019, playing just nine games. He struggled a little with form, but also with injury, fracturing his foot. He pushed his way into first grade, late in the season, playing in two finals matches for Melbourne. He finished the year by being selected in the Australian Under 23s team to play France and in the Australian World Nines team.

It is difficult to make too much of his 2019 statistics. He scored three tries in nine games last year - and produced one try assist, 19 tackle breaks, five line breaks and averaged 118 running metres per game. He had a tackle efficiency rate of 82 per cent.

Whether to stick with Leilua or start Scott is one of the more difficult choices facing coach Ricky Stuart this year. Leilua at his peak is probably a more damaging player in attack, but he is probably also more inconsistent. Moreover, I'm sure Curtis Scott hasn't been signed to play for Mounties. I'd want both players in my top 17, the question is how to do it. If Scott starts, the best place for Leilua is probably as an impact player on the bench. If Leilua starts, Scott's best spot might be on the wing.

What is the depth looking like? Jack Wighton can obviously play at centre - he played in that position for the Blues and the Kangaroos last year. But he is best used at five eighth or fullback at the Raiders. Nick Cotric can also cover at centre, playing eight games in the role in 2019 while Leilua was sidelined. But he looks much more comfortable and more dangerous on the wing - and he has dropped down the depth chart for centre with Scott's recruitment. Michael Oldfield is also primarily a winger, but he covered centre in five matches for the Raiders last year. The journeyman always does his job when he comes into the team.

Sebastian Kris made his NRL debut last year in Round 10 against the Rabbitohs and went on to make a total of four NRL appearances, two starting at centre and one on the wing. His average statistics were impacted by the fact he only played five minutes in his debut match, but it is worth noting his tackle efficiency rate (88 per cent) was the best of any of the Raiders' backs. Kris played 17 games in NSW Cup for Mounties in 2019, with one on the wing and the remainder at centre. He scored five tries and averaged 94 running metres, 55 kick return metres, 14 tackles and 1.2 missed tackles per game. He also produced five line breaks and four tackle breaks. His tackle efficiency rate in NSW Cup was 86 per cent. Kris is a player with very good potential, though he's probably developed more slowly than I thought he might, given the dominance of some of his performances at junior level. He'll be working on his consistency and involvement rates, but he might struggle to get opportunities in firsts given the depth the Raiders now have in the outside backs.

My player to watch at centre is Harley Smith-Shields. He has been a star for the Raiders at under 20s level, and is principally a centre - though he can also cover wing and fullback. He was the Raiders' Jersey Flegg Player of the Year in 2019. When he stepped up to NSW Cup with Mounties last year, it would be an understatement to say he didn't look out of place. He scored 15 tries for the Raiders' Under 20s and six for Mounties in 2019. At Flegg level last year, he made 148 tackle breaks, 18 line breaks, averaged 173 running metres per game and posted an 81 per cent tackle efficiency rate. An exciting prospect. He's about to turn 20 and stands at 183cms and 95kgs. He's been promoted to the top 30 and if he were called on, I think he'd make a impact at NRL level. Good judges tip him to be a future representative player.

One player I don't want to overlook is Matt Timoko. He made a big impact in Jersey Flegg last year, scoring 13 tries. He also produced 157 tackle breaks, 18 line breaks, five try assists, 134 running metres per game and recorded an 86 per cent tackle efficiency rate. He scored two tries in four appearances for Mounties. He's about to turn 20, and is on a train and trial contract, but has also been named in the Jersey Flegg training squad for 2020. A player with very good potential.

So what's your view on the Raiders' top centre pairing for 2020? We are supplementing this story with a special poll.

POLL: Who should partner Jarrod Croker in the centres in 2020?

Tomorrow, we'll look at another contentious position - winger.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

Raiders’ best 17: Why Leilua’s time in Canberra isn’t over – and the forward bolting for an Origin call

Sometimes the milk can go off. Not this lot, though. It’s a tough ask, picking up a side that lost in a grand final. But Canberra are in a good spot heading into the new season, and you can rest assured that Ricky Stuart will be licking his lips at the prospect of going one better in 2020. Canberra has all the hallmarks of a team ready to win a premiership.

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... rOSNpoyuHg
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LastRaider
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by LastRaider »

1. CNK
2. Croker
3. Scott
4. Leilua
5. Cotric
6. Wighton
7. G.Williams
8. Horsburgh
9. Hodgson (c)
10. Papalii
11. Bateman
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Simonnson
15. Soliola
16. Guler
17. Murchie / Young

Scott didn’t come to the Raiders to play wing and you can’t have Leilua out of the side when we have a points scoring problem at the moment. Croker to wing to leverage his kick chase ability at the line and to kick goals.

Bench really hard to pick at this stage and would need to change to accommodate different oppositions.

Also I think we need to change how we train CNK, we need him to be our sprint man, so short, sharp and explosive as we lack speed now.

Croker fan club come at me... but deep down you know it’s the right thing!
Last edited by LastRaider on January 9, 2020, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by Azza »

I very much doubt Croker will be playing wing.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by afgtnk »

I don't see how you can get away with not having a cover for the five backs on the bench with the current concussion rules. All it takes is one small knock and your entire game takes a hit accomodating a second rower in your backline. Same goes for hooker/halves (more so hooker, given the greater physical impact they're exposed to).

Not worth the risk IMO - you'd like to think that in this day and age, two middle forwards on the bench can bust out enough minutes between them to give the starters enough of a break. The days of fat Junior Paulo pumping out 30 minutes before needing an oxygen mask are nigh.
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, we started doing something a little different last year - assessing "The contenders" for each position and inviting you to have your say... and to post your strongest possible team.

Now we are in the New Year, and the Raiders' top 30 is close to final, we'll kick off a new series of articles... "Locks and contenders". Why the change in title? Any team that makes the Grand Final has quite a few positions locked down.

The team lists that you post in this thread on will be collated into a consensus view on the Canberra Raiders strongest possible 2020 line up. We will supplement the lists with some polls for the contentious positions.

Remember, when posting your top 17 squad - it should be irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals!

Locks and contenders

Wingers

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The Raiders have lost one of their incumbent wingers, Jordan Rapana, with his departure for Japanese rugby union. It is possible he could be back mid season, after he completes his union duties - but so far, the NRL has ruled that out. Regardless, one wing position is vacant for Round 1 2020. Who should fill it?

There is no doubt who will line up on one wing: Nick Cotric. Cotric played his third season in the NRL in 2019. He was Canberra Raiders Rookie of the Year in 2017 - and the Dally M Rookie of the Year and joint winner of the Canberra Raiders Fans' Choice Award. In 2019, he made his debut for New South Wales and Australia. Yet his is still only 21 years old. He has some extraordinary achievements on his record, already.

His 2019 for the Raiders was a bit disrupted and his form was a bit down on 2017 and 2018. He made 22 appearances in green, missing the Round 12 match against the Bulldogs on representative duty. He then suffered an ankle injury in the Round 14 win over the Sharks, which kept him on the sidelines for two weeks - and out of State of Origin II. He was then controversially suspended for three weeks, after a dangerous tackle on Tim Lafai in his comeback from injury, the Round 17 win over the Dragons at Wollongong.



He was also forced into the centres for a good part of the season, due to a serious neck injury for Joey Leilua. He played eight of his 22 games at centre, rather than his regular wing position.

Cotric scored just four tries in 2019, compared with 12 in 2018 and 16 in 2017. That left him equal ninth, with Joey Leilua, in the try scoring stakes at the club - and well down the try scoring list for NRL wingers/centres. He was also less dangerous with the ball in hand. In 2018 he ranked second in the NRL for tackle breaks (over five per match), just behind James Tedesco, and fourth for line breaks (22). In 2019, he ranked outside the top 20 players for tackle breaks (just over three per game) and outside the top 40 players for line breaks (10). He still averaged around 9 metres per run and 93 metres per match (compared with 8.5 metres per run over 100 metres per game in 2019). His error count was well down and he remained highly disciplined.

With the shift to centre, Cotric did more tackling and his tackle efficiency rate improved - but he was still well down the list for NRL wingers/centres in that department. He was credited with 12 try causes, which at best could be considered middle of the pack in his two positions. It is probably something he'll want to keep working on. Despite all that, Cotric is certainly a "lock" for the No. 2 jersey in 2020.

Who then are the contenders for the vacant spot?

It is possible that Curtis Scott could fill the role, should Joey Leilua retain his starting centre spot. However, Scott has not played one NRL game on the wing, and all the indications coming out of Raiderland are that Scott will take over at right centre. Should that happen, the leading contender for the vacant wing spot is Bailey Simonsson.

Simonsson shared the honours with Corey Horsburgh for Canberra Raiders Rookie of the Year in 2019. He played 21 first grade games last season, including the Grand Final. He started in 14 matches on the wing, one at centre, one at fullback and the rest on the bench.

Simonsson scored eight tries last year, ranking fourth at the Raiders - which is a pretty good strike rate for a player who was often filling in for other players... or injecting fresh legs off the bench. He ranked third at the club for average runs (14 per game), average running metres (114 per game) and line breaks (12). He ranked fifth for dummy half runs (30) and seventh for average tackles breaks (two per match). Obviously, it is fairly tough defending out on the wing, and he posted 10 try causes (third at the club) and nine line break causes (ranked sixth). Only Jordan Rapana had a lower tackle efficiency rate amongst the Raiders backs. That said, he produced some pretty memorable try savers, the best coming in the win over the Wests Tigers at Western Sydney Stadium. He ranked fourth for errors at the Raiders (18), but the number of penalties he conceded were very low.

Michael Oldfield is a more experienced option. He joined the Canberra Raiders in mid 2017 - and has now made 18 first grade appearances for the club, half of them in 2019. He played five of his nine games this season at centre, four on the wing. He's something of a journeyman - having previously played at the Sea Eagles, Roosters, Rabbitohs, Panthers and Catalan Dragons. And while he's not been a regular in firsts at the Raiders, he's become an important senior figure at the club, part of the leadership group - and always does his job professionally when called upon.

Oldfield scored five tries in the 2019 season, which is not a bad strike rate in nine matches. He averaged one try involvement per match, equal first at the Raiders with Jack Wighton. He ranked eighth at the club for average running metres and equal second, with Jarrod Croker for metres per run (10). His tackle efficiency improved (83 per cent, compared with 71 per cent in 2018) and he reduced his try causes from eight to two. He conceded only two penalties, but averaged one error per match, ranking fourth at the club. I don't think he'll be playing in firsts in Round 1, but he'll play a valuable role should injury or suspension strike.

Sebastian Kris is another option. He is probably more a centre, but can certainly handle wing. 2019 was his rookie year, making four appearances, two at centre and one on the flank.

The other contenders are probably bolters - but they certainly are players to watch.

Harley Smith-Shields is an outstanding prospect in the outside backs. Just promoted from Under 20s into the top 30, he is listed by the Raiders at centre, but he'd also make a very good winger at NRL level.

Semi Valemei is a young Fijian winger who has just been elevated to the top 30 squad from the Jersey Flegg squad. He was reportedly being courted by the Melbourne Storm, but he signed a new two year deal with Canberra in 2019. He scored nine tries in 17 matches last season in Jersey Flegg, averaging 118 running metres. He finished the season by being selected in Fiji's World Nines squad. Another very good prospect.

Andre Niko is listed as a fullback, but he's another talented young player who I think looked better on the wing in Under 20s. As he's a development player, he wouldn't be able to play first grade in the first half of the season, unless there is an injury crisis and it is approved by the NRL.

So what's your view on who should replace Jordan Rapana on the wing? We are supplementing this story with a special poll.

Next week we'll start by looking at the halves.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by The Nickman »

I'm not sure I agree with this whole process. Some people will want Croker on the wing, others will want Cotric in the centres… don't they get a say?
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Nickman wrote:I'm not sure I agree with this whole process. Some people will want Croker on the wing, others will want Cotric in the centres… don't they get a say?
They list their team in this thread, so everyone has their say. I will then develop a consensus team... by counting the number of times that a certain player is selected in particular positions.

So start posting your teams!


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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by The Nickman »

Ah apologies, I seem to have missed the whole explanation of the process here, Ferg.

So what's the purpose of the polls?
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

To encourage some more discussion.

It is interesting that the poll for centre has the majority of people voting for Leilua to start... will be interesting to see if the majority then votes for Simonsson in the poll for wingers.
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What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by greeneyed »

The Greenhouse has traditionally run a series of polls in the off season to determine the fans' view of the strongest possible top 17... irrespective of injuries. However, we started doing something a little different last year - assessing "The contenders" for each position and inviting you to have your say... and to post your strongest possible team.

Now we are in the New Year, and the Raiders' top 30 is close to final, we'll kick off a new series of articles... "Locks and contenders". Why the change in title? Any team that makes the Grand Final has quite a few positions locked down.

The team lists that you post in this thread will be collated into a consensus view on the Canberra Raiders strongest possible 2020 line up.

Remember, when posting your top 17 squad - it should be irrespective of injuries. Think of it this way: it is the team you want firing in the finals!

Locks and contenders

Halves

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With the departure of halfback Aidan Sezer and the recruitment of English half, George Williams, the Canberra Raiders' halves partnership is locked down. New recruit Williams will start in the No. 7 jersey, while Jack Wighton is a "lock" at five eighth, after his stellar first year in the No. 6.

Not only did Jack Wighton successfully make the transition from fullback to five eighth, he made his debut for the Blues and the Kangaroos and won the Clive Churchill Medal, judged the best on the ground in the Grand Final.

Wighton made 26 appearances in green in 2019. The only match he missed was due to State of Origin duty. He ranked third at the club in the try scoring stakes (9), and equal third amongst regular NRL five eighths. No player at the Raiders produced more try involvements (25) and he was second only to Josh Hodgson for try assists (10). He also delivered 13 line break assists. He was outside the top 10 NRL five eighths for try assists and line break assists - but his running game was a real strength. He ranked first amongst the regular NRL five eighths for total running metres and running metres per match. He was second at the Raiders for total tackle breaks (72) and second amongst regular NRL five eighths. He finished equal fifth for line breaks at the club (10).

Wighton took on a leading role in the Raiders' kicking game in 2019, and overall, he performed admirably. He averaged more kicking metres than any player at the club (235 metres from just under eight kicks per game). That placed him inside the top 20 NRL players for kicking metres per match. He got two 40/20 kicks and forced 15 line drop outs. He was inside the top 10 NRL players for 40/20s and just outside the top 10 for FDOs. Though he ranked equal first with Anthony Milford and Mitchell Pearce for kicks dead (10), his weighted kicking game was good. Overall, he was well down the list of NRL players for kick errors.

Jack Wighton was often criticised for his error rate and positioning in defence at fullback. But he's always been a tough, aggressive defender, with good technique. His tackling ability was a key reason that Ricky Stuart wanted him at five eighth. It was part of the overall strategy to fix the Raiders' defensive woes. It paid off. Wighton was second only to Josh Hodgson at the Raiders for one on one tackles (26). He averaged two missed tackles per game (0.5 per game in 2018), ranking fifth at the club. But he lifted his tackle efficiency to 84 per cent (82 per cent in 2018), while quadrupling his defensive workload. He produced just nine try causes, compared with six in half a season in 2018.

George Williams, aged 25, comes to the Raiders with over 170 first class games for the Wigan Warriors, a Challenge Cup Final, four Super League Grand Finals and two premierships to his name. Williams, born in Wigan, played his junior football with Ince Rose Bridge and Wigan St Patricks, before he was signed to the Warriors' Academy team in 2011 on a four year contract. He scored a try in his debut for Wigan in April 2013, a Challenge Cup match against the Leigh Centurions. He followed that up a month later, with a debut in Super League at halfback against the London Broncos - again scoring a try. He helped the Wigan Under 19s to a premiership in 2013, before he became a regular in the top squad in 2014.



Early in his career, Williams played five games at halfback and five at hooker, but since 2015 he has regularly played at five eighth. He came off the bench in his first Super League Grand Final in 2014 - a loss to St Helens - but started at six in his other three Grand Finals, including the victories of 2016 and 2018. Williams made his international debut for England in 2015 against France, going on to play two Tests at half against New Zealand that year. He has represented England or Great Britain in 11 Tests, five at five eighth.

Williams was selected for the Great Britain Lions 2019 tour of the southern hemisphere, but only played in the final Test against Papua New Guinea. Coach Wayne Bennett consistently preferred Jackson Hastings, despite the disastrous results. The Lions failed to win a match. Does Williams' non-selection worry me? Not really. I think it says more about time passing by the super coach, Bennett.



So what sort of player are the Raiders fans going to see when Williams debuts? He has good physical presence, and is the same height (180cms) and weight (90kgs) as the player he replaces, Aidan Sezer. There are some similarities between Williams and Jack Wighton. Both like playing on the left side of the field, both are runners and both can kick. Some fans are questioning whether Williams is the sort of player the Raiders need at halfback. Can he be an organiser? Can he handle the shift to the other side of the ruck? Raiders recruitment guru Peter Mulholland thinks so.

"George can organise and structure a game but both him and Jack Wighton ask questions," Mulholland said recently.

"He will develop that structured game ability as well. Defensively he’s sound and has a good kicking game. He just needs to learn that little bit of game management, I never doubt his running game."

“I don’t think they used him properly at Wigan to be honest. I would have given him more responsibility. They tended to use Leuluai more than him. When the ball went to the left side, though, he was doing pretty well with it."

It will be interesting to see how things pan out. Williams is on a three year deal with the Green Machine, so time will tell. And even if Williams is not Ricky Stuart Mark II in terms of organisational ability, we have to remember that the Raiders have one of the best play making dummy halves in the world. It might not be traditional, but the combination of Hodgson with Wighton and Williams might well gel into a powerful force.

What about the depth in the halves? The Raiders effectively released not only Sezer, but also young halves Ata Hingano and Brendan O'Hagan.

The Raiders, however, still have one of the best back up halves in the business in Sam Williams. He can play either five eighth or half. He re-signed with the Raiders in November on a deal which will keep him in Canberra until the end of 2021.

Williams made 10 appearances in first grade in 2019. He came into the team for an injured Aidan Sezer in Round 3 and good form saw him hold onto the halfback spot until the Round 12 win over the Bulldogs. Sezer grabbed back the No. 7 jersey in Round 13 - and that turned out to be the end of Williams' first grade season. Williams also played nine games for the Raiders' NSW Premiership affiliate, Mounties - all but one in the second half of the season. He did not play quite a few weeks, simply because he was 18th or 19th man in the NRL squad.

Williams is a good organiser and kicker - but defence is not his relative strength. That's not because of any lack of effort or hard work, it is simply because some players take advantage of his body size, and he gets targetted when defending. It is probably one reason that Aidan Sezer was preferred in the second half of the season - as Sezer has generally been considered the better defender. But Williams didn't do a whole lot wrong before being dropped. His tackle efficiency rate was a fairly good 84 per cent - though he averaged one try cause and 1.3 line break causes per match. He scored two tries and delivered six try assists and nine total try involvements for the season. Williams also averaged 225 kicking metres per game, while posting one 40/20 and six forced line drop outs. That's pretty handy for your back up half.

The Raiders have also brought Matt Frawley, 25, back to the nation's capital. Frawley was born in Canberra, playing his junior football with the Belconnen United Sharks and West Belconnen Warriors. He went on to play for the Raiders' Under 20s team in 2013 - and captained the team in 2014. He went to Sydney for an opportunity, joining the Canterbury Bulldogs in 2015. He played 31 first grade games for the Dogs (2017-18), before heading to the Huddersfield Giants in England in 2019 (20 matches). He's on a one year development contract - so he can't play in the first half of the year, unless there is a serious injury crisis, and the NRL gives permission. But he certainly adds some depth to the squad. He is listed by the Raiders at five eighth, but can also play half. He even has an NRL game at hooker under the belt.

Jarrett Subloo was the Canberra Raiders Jersey Flegg five eighth in 2019, and he has been rewarded with a development contract in 2020. He's still just 19 years of age, standing at 185cms and 90kgs. Born in Innisfail, he was tied up by the Brisbane Broncos at a young age. He played with the Norths Devils at junior level and featured in Queensland junior representative teams. He joined the Raiders' SG Ball team in 2018, playing at fullback. He made 18 appearances in the Raiders' Jersey Flegg team in 2019, unfortunately missing the finals through injury. He scored seven tries and 11 goals and produced seven try assists and nine line break assists. His tackle efficiency was a respectable 85 per cent. He's been selected for the extended Queensland Maroons Under 20s squad for 2020. He might not get a chance in 2020 in the NRL, but he's a player with good potential to keep your eye on.

What's your view on the potential of a Williams-Wighton halves pairing? What impact will George Williams make on the NRL? Tell us below.

Tomorrow we'll start looking at the forwards.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by Beejay »

afgtnk wrote: January 9, 2020, 2:45 pm I don't see how you can get away with not having a cover for the five backs on the bench with the current concussion rules. All it takes is one small knock and your entire game takes a hit accomodating a second rower in your backline. Same goes for hooker/halves (more so hooker, given the greater physical impact they're exposed to).

Not worth the risk IMO - you'd like to think that in this day and age, two middle forwards on the bench can bust out enough minutes between them to give the starters enough of a break. The days of fat Junior Paulo pumping out 30 minutes before needing an oxygen mask are nigh.
I think this is a fair call. This will likely be the new normal that we will have to get used to.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by simo »

Beejay wrote: January 13, 2020, 11:20 am
afgtnk wrote: January 9, 2020, 2:45 pm I don't see how you can get away with not having a cover for the five backs on the bench with the current concussion rules. All it takes is one small knock and your entire game takes a hit accomodating a second rower in your backline. Same goes for hooker/halves (more so hooker, given the greater physical impact they're exposed to).

Not worth the risk IMO - you'd like to think that in this day and age, two middle forwards on the bench can bust out enough minutes between them to give the starters enough of a break. The days of fat Junior Paulo pumping out 30 minutes before needing an oxygen mask are nigh.
I think this is a fair call. This will likely be the new normal that we will have to get used to.
Agree and this is where havili can really shine.
14. Simonson
15. Havili
Gives us cover across the whole park as well as a middle forward if needed. Simonson to get minutes spelling a different players each week if un needed
Dont delete this GE
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by Botman »

afgtnk wrote: January 9, 2020, 2:45 pm I don't see how you can get away with not having a cover for the five backs on the bench with the current concussion rules. All it takes is one small knock and your entire game takes a hit accomodating a second rower in your backline. Same goes for hooker/halves (more so hooker, given the greater physical impact they're exposed to).

Not worth the risk IMO - you'd like to think that in this day and age, two middle forwards on the bench can bust out enough minutes between them to give the starters enough of a break. The days of fat Junior Paulo pumping out 30 minutes before needing an oxygen mask are nigh.
yeah thats an interesting situation re: the outside backs'
I would say it depends on the make up of your team.... Like the Raiders could run 4 forwards and i'd be fairly confident that we could cover any of the back positions because John Bateman offers some pretty good utility as a guy who can probably handle centre for a game if needed

If you lost CNK, you could move Simo or Cotric to the back, shift Croker to the wing and slot Bateman at centre.
If you lost a centre, it's a straight swap for JB
If you lost a winger, its JB to centre, Croker to that wing.
If you lost a half, you probably just put JB in the halves and tell him to defend his **** off and float, and have the remaining half play both sides

Now none of those are ideal and certainly we're a worse team in each of those scenarios than if we just had Simo/Scott/Bj (how ever it shakes out) on the bench. So then it becomes a question about your risk appetite and the prevalence of outside backs being concussed/injured and how you feel about those contingencies

I'd personally be OK with going to with the 4 forwards (or rather 3, with Havilii being the 4th) but i think it's reasonable if people (and coaches) feel that's outside their risk appetite.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by Raider47 »

I also think that in any given game, excluding if there is an injury, at least 1 of your bench players is going to get very limited minutes. Most of last season that was Havili. If not him then it was someone like Young, Murchie, Collins or even Sutton. For that reason I think we're best served by having a back on the bench. Between Papalii, Guler, Horsburgh, Soliola, Tapine and one of Sutton/Lui/Young/Havili we have enough minutes there to cover three middle forward positions and the second row if required. In every one of those games at the backend of the season, an outside back being called upon was necessary due to injury, sin binning or concussion. The only time it was done out of tactical freedom was in that regular season Melbourne Storm game where Cotric got pulled for having a bit of a stinker.

For this reason, I'm going:

4. Leilua
5. Scott

14. Simonsson
15. Guler
16. Horsburgh
17. Havili/Sutton

Having Havili there ahead of Sutton obviously provides us cover if Hodgo goes down or if he needs a rest. But I don't think that reason is solely enough to give him the nod. I think he is underrated as a middle forward and that is what gives him the edge for mine. If we opt for Sutton I'd be just as happy though really. I think he has real potential.
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Re: What's your strongest possible Canberra Raiders 2020 line up?

Post by BadnMean »

Botman wrote: January 13, 2020, 11:53 am
afgtnk wrote: January 9, 2020, 2:45 pm I don't see how you can get away with not having a cover for the five backs on the bench with the current concussion rules. All it takes is one small knock and your entire game takes a hit accomodating a second rower in your backline. Same goes for hooker/halves (more so hooker, given the greater physical impact they're exposed to).

Not worth the risk IMO - you'd like to think that in this day and age, two middle forwards on the bench can bust out enough minutes between them to give the starters enough of a break. The days of fat Junior Paulo pumping out 30 minutes before needing an oxygen mask are nigh.
yeah thats an interesting situation re: the outside backs'
I would say it depends on the make up of your team.... Like the Raiders could run 4 forwards and i'd be fairly confident that we could cover any of the back positions because John Bateman offers some pretty good utility as a guy who can probably handle centre for a game if needed

If you lost CNK, you could move Simo or Cotric to the back, shift Croker to the wing and slot Bateman at centre.
If you lost a centre, it's a straight swap for JB
If you lost a winger, its JB to centre, Croker to that wing.
If you lost a half, you probably just put JB in the halves and tell him to defend his **** off and float, and have the remaining half play both sides

Now none of those are ideal and certainly we're a worse team in each of those scenarios than if we just had Simo/Scott/Bj (how ever it shakes out) on the bench. So then it becomes a question about your risk appetite and the prevalence of outside backs being concussed/injured and how you feel about those contingencies

I'd personally be OK with going to with the 4 forwards (or rather 3, with Havilii being the 4th) but i think it's reasonable if people (and coaches) feel that's outside their risk appetite.
Thing is, it is the teams ability to carry on and thrive during that compulsory 10-15 minutes minimum you WILL get every 2nd game of NRL these days (or worse if the HIA is failed).

In one scenario you move our most impactful forward out wide where he can't have the same influence on a match and a new forward into the back row- which means we have to carry a back rower on the bench... Because Sia can't move well enough these days, Haviliii is similar- great in the middle but not mobile enough for back row. Tapine maybe but now we are moving yet another position...

In the other scenario we have Simonsen, Scott or Joey on the bench. We are well covered for any backline HIA or injury event. If it is a half, then Havillii can cover (if he is on the bench) or the back comes on and plays as a running 5/8. Not a million miles different to how we will play in 2020 anyway- we are fortunate to have Hodgo who can share kicking so we'll always have 2 kickers anyway.

I think the way we played and the results we achieved in 2019 in games where he had to scramble a forward into the centres vs games where we had SImonsen to come on and absolutely ADD value to the team, rather than the team limping along on one engine made it really clear that 4 bench forwards is not the way these days.

HIA is just too common and it involves a mandatory sit down period that is just such a huge chunk of a half.
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