fairly certain CNK has pledged his allegiance to the cook islands rather than NZ, he would have easily made the NZ 9's squad at leastSeiffert82 wrote: ↑October 9, 2019, 6:51 pm How do we rate in 2020 I wonder?
9. English test rep
7. English test rep
6. Australian test rep
1. CNK...surely in line for a Kiwi jersey one day if Bailey Simonsson can snag a 9s rep jumper
Surely we're a top 4 spine next season, unlike this year?
Worst spine in the competition
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Nailed it again, Rickman.The Rickman wrote: ↑March 17, 2019, 7:07 amI think you’ll find the key difference is the fourth player in that spine is now gone, and rightfully so.exrefhollywood wrote:our 3 current spine players took us to where the last two seasons????
given hodgson was injured, however we were rubbish.
until we get a decent half who can win/close a game out, we are with the suggested few
I like the look of the new spine, and once they gel I think they can be top shelf. The missing link now is fullback, but I’m quietly confident CNK will do the job.
Barring that, there’s always Jordan Raps
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I have to say this thread has aged well after the *checks notes* "worst spine in the competition" came pretty close to winning the comp haha
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
scratch that just read CNK is available for the kiwis and expected to be named in there squad for the tests against AUS later this month Great Britain in Novemberkiwi raider wrote: ↑October 10, 2019, 9:20 amfairly certain CNK has pledged his allegiance to the cook islands rather than NZ, he would have easily made the NZ 9's squad at leastSeiffert82 wrote: ↑October 9, 2019, 6:51 pm How do we rate in 2020 I wonder?
9. English test rep
7. English test rep
6. Australian test rep
1. CNK...surely in line for a Kiwi jersey one day if Bailey Simonsson can snag a 9s rep jumper
Surely we're a top 4 spine next season, unlike this year?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=12274318
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Worst spine in the competition
Good stuff. Well deserved.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
Internationals across the spine.
We're good
We're good
Re: Worst spine in the competition
I'm very confident with a full pre-season CNK will improve massively. Which is pretty exciting.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
Even being in camp with the Kiwis if he doesn't play will do him wonders
He'll be hungry knowing he's not far off a jumper
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He'll be hungry knowing he's not far off a jumper
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I'll be so disappointed if our spine takes a backwards step next season. I honestly think Wighton has more in him. His kicking game improved immensely as the year went on, his defence and running game is top shelf, it's just that organisation and short passing game that needs a bit of work. I think he can improve.
I think CNK also has more in him. If he can improve his ball playing and support around the ruck, he could become an elite fullback. So much effort and skill there.
Williams is the unknown factor. You'd like to think he'll be a great addition in the halves. Not sure how he'll combine with Wighton as another running half, but if CNK can improve his combos with both sides of the field, then maybe it's irrelevant.
On the whole, we should be better. Doesn't always work out that way though.
I think CNK also has more in him. If he can improve his ball playing and support around the ruck, he could become an elite fullback. So much effort and skill there.
Williams is the unknown factor. You'd like to think he'll be a great addition in the halves. Not sure how he'll combine with Wighton as another running half, but if CNK can improve his combos with both sides of the field, then maybe it's irrelevant.
On the whole, we should be better. Doesn't always work out that way though.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
Yeah and i think he and club both realise the area that he needs to really take a leap in, and knowing the style of person CNK is, he'll leave no stone unturned in trying to make gains in that area
George Williams aside, CNK is the guy im most looking forward to seeing play in the early rounds next year
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I agree with this.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑October 10, 2019, 10:43 pm I'll be so disappointed if our spine takes a backwards step next season. I honestly think Wighton has more in him. His kicking game improved immensely as the year went on, his defence and running game is top shelf, it's just that organisation and short passing game that needs a bit of work. I think he can improve.
I think CNK also has more in him. If he can improve his ball playing and support around the ruck, he could become an elite fullback. So much effort and skill there.
Williams is the unknown factor. You'd like to think he'll be a great addition in the halves. Not sure how he'll combine with Wighton as another running half, but if CNK can improve his combos with both sides of the field, then maybe it's irrelevant.
On the whole, we should be better. Doesn't always work out that way though.
Jack is a funny one because he is playing top shelf footy but I agree that he has another level he can to go to and if he gets there he will be in rare air.
CNK I’m not so sure on. He’s doing a great job and played a brilliant game in the GF on the back of a great season. I think he could improve his passing game but overall I get the sense he is already giving it everything and there may not be much room for improvement. If he can maintain his current level I’d be happy.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I disagree entirely. I think CNK absolutely had another level to go to, and he will.Billy Walker wrote: ↑October 11, 2019, 8:49 amI agree with this.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑October 10, 2019, 10:43 pm I'll be so disappointed if our spine takes a backwards step next season. I honestly think Wighton has more in him. His kicking game improved immensely as the year went on, his defence and running game is top shelf, it's just that organisation and short passing game that needs a bit of work. I think he can improve.
I think CNK also has more in him. If he can improve his ball playing and support around the ruck, he could become an elite fullback. So much effort and skill there.
Williams is the unknown factor. You'd like to think he'll be a great addition in the halves. Not sure how he'll combine with Wighton as another running half, but if CNK can improve his combos with both sides of the field, then maybe it's irrelevant.
On the whole, we should be better. Doesn't always work out that way though.
Jack is a funny one because he is playing top shelf footy but I agree that he has another level he can to go to and if he gets there he will be in rare air.
CNK I’m not so sure on. He’s doing a great job and played a brilliant game in the GF on the back of a great season. I think he could improve his passing game but overall I get the sense he is already giving it everything and there may not be much room for improvement. If he can maintain his current level I’d be happy.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
CNK will get some improvement out of his ball playing and being match fit/hardened for a full season.
But he doesn't have the equipment to be a Slater/RTS/Teddy/Turbo level fullback. The size (Slater excepted) and sheer speed isn't there. His ball playing is a work in progress, we'll see how it comes along.
We're getting more out of CNK than Newcastle are out of Ponga, just because CNK turns up and plays great every single week. So he is incredible value. But imo, he'll be a top 6 FB who isn't in the top 3 because they are the very best talents in the game.
And that is fine. Jack is an Origin level talent. Hodgo is top 2 (you can argue about #1) in his position. They are the absolute top drawer quality in our spine so CNK being amazingly consistent, a true top drawer defensive FB and good in attack (not top drawer great) is about all you can hope for with a salary cap to work with.
Our other spine position was mediocre or inconsistent for much of the year but very effective for the back end of the season and also fit our defence mindset perfectly. GWilly will probably be much the same for most of the year as he adapts- if he is as good in contact as Sezer I'll be very happy but I am hoping for a few more try assists or threat in the 20m zone.
But he doesn't have the equipment to be a Slater/RTS/Teddy/Turbo level fullback. The size (Slater excepted) and sheer speed isn't there. His ball playing is a work in progress, we'll see how it comes along.
We're getting more out of CNK than Newcastle are out of Ponga, just because CNK turns up and plays great every single week. So he is incredible value. But imo, he'll be a top 6 FB who isn't in the top 3 because they are the very best talents in the game.
And that is fine. Jack is an Origin level talent. Hodgo is top 2 (you can argue about #1) in his position. They are the absolute top drawer quality in our spine so CNK being amazingly consistent, a true top drawer defensive FB and good in attack (not top drawer great) is about all you can hope for with a salary cap to work with.
Our other spine position was mediocre or inconsistent for much of the year but very effective for the back end of the season and also fit our defence mindset perfectly. GWilly will probably be much the same for most of the year as he adapts- if he is as good in contact as Sezer I'll be very happy but I am hoping for a few more try assists or threat in the 20m zone.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
Given where he is at in his career I'm not too worried. Tedesco wasn't playing at the level he is now 3-4 years back.PigRickman wrote: ↑October 11, 2019, 7:37 amYeah and i think he and club both realise the area that he needs to really take a leap in, and knowing the style of person CNK is, he'll leave no stone unturned in trying to make gains in that area
George Williams aside, CNK is the guy im most looking forward to seeing play in the early rounds next year
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
It’s a pretty good position when a guy with so much scope for improvement was also one of our best players this year.Azza wrote: ↑October 11, 2019, 10:19 amGiven where he is at in his career I'm not too worried. Tedesco wasn't playing at the level he is now 3-4 years back.PigRickman wrote: ↑October 11, 2019, 7:37 amYeah and i think he and club both realise the area that he needs to really take a leap in, and knowing the style of person CNK is, he'll leave no stone unturned in trying to make gains in that area
George Williams aside, CNK is the guy im most looking forward to seeing play in the early rounds next year
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Yeah. I thought CNK had gone a little quiet in the 3-4 games before the GF but thought this GF performance was one of his best for us.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
Spine:
Wighton will go to another level with a full preseason at 5/8. CNK's running game is A++ but needs to improve his support and ball playing ability. Williams will be an amazing recruit and will hopefully give us options in the 20. Hodgo is the best hooker in the game at the moment.
Forwards:
I'm extremely excited to see how the Horse and Guler progress. They are looking amazing and also have definitely A LOT more to give. Here is to hoping Tapine gets more minutes next year because when he is on, he is amazing...
Outside Backs:
I really hope we keep BJ at least for next year. Simmonson will only get better with a full NRL offseason. Cotric needs to improve the most out of the lot. In my opinion, he has gone backwards when compared to his breakout season in 2017, but here we are with him being involved in the Blues and Australian team.
Wighton will go to another level with a full preseason at 5/8. CNK's running game is A++ but needs to improve his support and ball playing ability. Williams will be an amazing recruit and will hopefully give us options in the 20. Hodgo is the best hooker in the game at the moment.
Forwards:
I'm extremely excited to see how the Horse and Guler progress. They are looking amazing and also have definitely A LOT more to give. Here is to hoping Tapine gets more minutes next year because when he is on, he is amazing...
Outside Backs:
I really hope we keep BJ at least for next year. Simmonson will only get better with a full NRL offseason. Cotric needs to improve the most out of the lot. In my opinion, he has gone backwards when compared to his breakout season in 2017, but here we are with him being involved in the Blues and Australian team.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
100% - no complaints about what CNK is turning out and some potential to improve but he hasn’t got the natural attributes to be in the absolute elite class. The bloke has a serious crack though and brings plenty week in week out.BadnMean wrote: ↑October 11, 2019, 9:58 am CNK will get some improvement out of his ball playing and being match fit/hardened for a full season.
But he doesn't have the equipment to be a Slater/RTS/Teddy/Turbo level fullback. The size (Slater excepted) and sheer speed isn't there. His ball playing is a work in progress, we'll see how it comes along.
We're getting more out of CNK than Newcastle are out of Ponga, just because CNK turns up and plays great every single week. So he is incredible value. But imo, he'll be a top 6 FB who isn't in the top 3 because they are the very best talents in the game.
And that is fine. Jack is an Origin level talent. Hodgo is top 2 (you can argue about #1) in his position. They are the absolute top drawer quality in our spine so CNK being amazingly consistent, a true top drawer defensive FB and good in attack (not top drawer great) is about all you can hope for with a salary cap to work with.
Our other spine position was mediocre or inconsistent for much of the year but very effective for the back end of the season and also fit our defence mindset perfectly. GWilly will probably be much the same for most of the year as he adapts- if he is as good in contact as Sezer I'll be very happy but I am hoping for a few more try assists or threat in the 20m zone.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
It seemed like he was just limping in to peak again in the GF. He plays a hard game and it's his first proper year. One of his improvements next year will be picking his moments a bit better. He'll learn how to recover better as well.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
CNK went up multiple levels in that GF, I have full faith in him developing his ball playing and middle support to being a very very good fullback.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
I think CNK is gonna enjoy the off season. He is a very full on player and was getting a little worn down. He put in a mighty shift in the GF though.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
I'd say both CNK and George will need to be the hardest working players in the off season.
George will need get himself in a condition that can withstand the rigours of weekly NRL football, otherwise the rest of his game will be going no where.
With CNK his current limitations as a ball player are obvious, but if you offered me now to trade that for David Milne-esque support play every game I'd take it instantly. However, I think to be able to do that in general a lot of it has to come down to conditioning, which he'll need to also work hard on.
George will need get himself in a condition that can withstand the rigours of weekly NRL football, otherwise the rest of his game will be going no where.
With CNK his current limitations as a ball player are obvious, but if you offered me now to trade that for David Milne-esque support play every game I'd take it instantly. However, I think to be able to do that in general a lot of it has to come down to conditioning, which he'll need to also work hard on.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Yeah, happy days, pretty sure our spine had a pretty good year when sezer had a go, the rest are top notch players too.Sid wrote:Raiders travelling pretty well for the team with the worst spine in the competition
He is good for about 15% of the time he's played with us. Ok defence.
Played well when he was going for a new contract after George Williams signed coincidently.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Just watching Gilliams highlights. He appears to play left edge. Not sure what the plans with him and jack are.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I am apprehensive about a pommy half.
I hope he exceeds and goes brilliantly though
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I hope he exceeds and goes brilliantly though
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Mate he was busted.Pete Cash wrote:I think CNK is gonna enjoy the off season. He is a very full on player and was getting a little worn down. He put in a mighty shift in the GF though.
He'll be better next year. Needs to add a few strings to his bow though
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
He's right out of that David Milne straight running, gap finding, support playing fullback. He'll never be a Mullins/Belcher type.CJ42 wrote:CNK went up multiple levels in that GF, I have full faith in him developing his ball playing and middle support to being a very very good fullback.
I'm keen to know how he develops because I love his heart and dedicated
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I have a theory that we rate players performance with a view that is biased by our expectations of them. Players like CNK and Hors benefit from this as expectations at the start of the year weren’t high so we are thrilled when they regularly turn out a 6.5/10 performance. On the other side players like Papa and Hodgo knock out a 7/10 game and we question their form given we know how good they can be.
I wonder whether we all might hold higher expectations for CNK going into next season? Perhaps Cotric suffered from that a bit? I thought he had a tough season but maybe I was judging him against a higher expectation than his breakout season.
I wonder whether we all might hold higher expectations for CNK going into next season? Perhaps Cotric suffered from that a bit? I thought he had a tough season but maybe I was judging him against a higher expectation than his breakout season.
Re: Worst spine in the competition
We probably do. But it doesn't mean your perceptions of this year are off.Billy Walker wrote: ↑October 12, 2019, 10:44 pm I have a theory that we rate players performance with a view that is biased by our expectations of them. Players like CNK and Hors benefit from this as expectations at the start of the year weren’t high so we are thrilled when they regularly turn out a 6.5/10 performance. On the other side players like Papa and Hodgo knock out a 7/10 game and we question their form given we know how good they can be.
I wonder whether we all might hold higher expectations for CNK going into next season? Perhaps Cotric suffered from that a bit? I thought he had a tough season but maybe I was judging him against a higher expectation than his breakout season.
I'm Cotric's biggest fan but his form this year wasn't as good as other years, objectively: He broke the most tackles in the comp last year, 140 vs 80 this season; 15 less line breaks, 8 less tries. He didn't finish all his chances this year vs last year he was turning half chances into points. He was still good enough to play origin, based on previous years form, body type and suitability. But it was measurably not even close to his best. And his best is top drawer, so even just going ok he's still one of the better wingers going around.
This year CNK and Hors had the "young guy" pass. So we rode Hors' inconsistent form during the early stages and enjoyed his good form later. But we'll expect his best next year, not a regression.
CNK didn't need any rose coloured glasses or to be held to a lower standard. He was literally leading the comp in run metres for a while. His "escape from the in goal" stats are insane- more than twice as good as the next best FB, which is a statistical way to measure/reflect his excellent positioning and determination + footwork.
He's up in the top 6 FB's for things in attack like tackle breaks, run metres, tries etc. That's pretty good, when most would say it's his positioning and defence that are his best qualities. He started our sets off well, regularly beating players on kick returns, which was one of Wighton's worst areas (weird, considering how good a running #6 Jack is). He had a good year. I think the only disappointment might be if people expect him to be a top3 elite FB next year, which he isn't, he's just a very good one.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Cheers BnM - the stats you provided back up what I intuitively thought, although I was surprised how good Cotric’s numbers were in his second year. I thought his rookie year was top shelf and then it been a slow decline but obviously his second year was very good off the numbers you provided. Impressive stats for CNK and happy if he can maintain that level.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
People need to remember that this season was CNK's first full year at fullback in the NRL. If you look at any good fullback with ballplaying skills, they were all ball runners at the start of their career. I can't remember which game it was but Slater mentioned in the post-match commentary after one game that it took him several years playing fullback full-time in first grade before he started to develop his ball playing skills. I wouldn't say he's anywhere near his ceiling at this stage...
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
My biggest concern is that CNK plays all heart. I’m not sure long term his body can cash the cheques that his heart is writing.
I hope I’m wrong because he’s quickly become a favourite player of mine to watch.
I hope I’m wrong because he’s quickly become a favourite player of mine to watch.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Very true - the obvious thing would be to bulk him up a bit over the off season but if not done carefully it can lead to a loss of pace and he’s not the quickest. Very hard not to like the guy but I share your concerns.gangrenous wrote: ↑October 13, 2019, 12:36 pm My biggest concern is that CNK plays all heart. I’m not sure long term his body can cash the cheques that his heart is writing.
I hope I’m wrong because he’s quickly become a favourite player of mine to watch.
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
I’m looking forward to see what CNK can do with a full pre season at our club under his belt
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Re: Worst spine in the competition
Campo will definitely benefit from a full pre season
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