Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Billy Walker »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:50 pm
gergreg wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:46 pm
Billy Walker wrote:Good on Ricky!!

It’s illegal to discuss opinion on a law matter before it goes before a court.

That will never happen in sports as it is this drama and speculation that engages fans on website, provides content for talk shows and sells paper.

That aside there needs to be some level of common decency around the commentary from people of influence in the media.

It’s hard to imagine the judiciary wasn’t influenced by the public outrage.
This is what I don't get. Just who has the judiciary been influenced by, when there are/were mixed opinions on the punishment he should have received. Some people have said he shouldn't be even charged and some say he should get 20 weeks.

Just looking at the outcome, in my opinion, the judiciary has not been influenced by anybody.

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Haha it's ludicrous. It wasn't "trial by media" in the slightest. At the end of the day he's very LUCKY to not get 12+ weeks, and the reason he didn't was because we had a very good lawyer.
I’d say the footy shows and media can go crazy not providing commentary on whether it was a good or bad decision, whether he got of easily or has been hard done by. I suggest there needs to be some level of care shown by commentators ahead of the hearing. It’s people’s livelihoods and reputations at stake. The process is there - let it appropriately run its course. The wild commentary in the media on both sides isn’t helpful.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:50 pm
gergreg wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:46 pm
Billy Walker wrote:Good on Ricky!!

It’s illegal to discuss opinion on a law matter before it goes before a court.

That will never happen in sports as it is this drama and speculation that engages fans on website, provides content for talk shows and sells paper.

That aside there needs to be some level of common decency around the commentary from people of influence in the media.

It’s hard to imagine the judiciary wasn’t influenced by the public outrage.
This is what I don't get. Just who has the judiciary been influenced by, when there are/were mixed opinions on the punishment he should have received. Some people have said he shouldn't be even charged and some say he should get 20 weeks.

Just looking at the outcome, in my opinion, the judiciary has not been influenced by anybody.

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Haha it's ludicrous. It wasn't "trial by media" in the slightest. At the end of the day he's very LUCKY to not get 12+ weeks, and the reason he didn't was because we had a very good lawyer.
I you think he should have got 12+ weeks do believe this incident was worse than Burgess who got 9 weeks?
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by The Nickman »

I don't care about Burgess' incident, I haven't seen footage of Burgess' incident and I also don't give the slightest **** about the length of Burgess' suspension. I'm only making my judgement based on Young's actions that I've seen, his past disciplinary record and what I feel he deserves.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:09 pm I don't care about Burgess' incident, I haven't seen footage of Burgess' incident and I also don't give the slightest **** about the length of Burgess' suspension. I'm only making my judgement based on Young's actions that I've seen, his past disciplinary record and what I feel he deserves.
Ok, so it's not a fully informed judgement then. :)
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by The Nickman »

I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
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Re: Hudson Young referred straight to judiciary

Post by Northern Raider »

PigRickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 9:45 am
Northern Raider wrote: September 11, 2019, 9:08 am
PigRickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 8:08 am
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 7:26 am 8 weeks is about 4 weeks light on IMO, but I think the fact the judiciary has been a complete farce this season in regards to eye gouges has absolutely played in Hudson’s favour

Next year the NRL needs to be a lot stricter on this, for everyone involved
1000% agree
The decision is defensible in context with how they’ve handled this all year long but boy changes for how they handle gouges is a must this off season
True they need to come down harder, particularly for repeat offenders. However if they do so it needs to be made clear that it will be the case from now on. You can't suddenly make an example of one player based on media reaction after letting other recent cases off so lightly.

They completely ballsed up the McGuire cases by relying on a player to make an "official complaint" for it to be classed as an eye gouge. They then took a harder stance in Burgess and gave him a somewhat light penalty of 9 weeks. That created a new standard which put them in a difficult position with Young. They couldn't hand down a tougher penalty for a lesser incident. So they took the easy path and gave him 1 week less than Burgess.

They now have to come out and publicly announced that future penalties will be harsher for repeat offenders. No excuses for any player after that.
I dont even think it can be in season tbh... the paramaters around gauging have been set in stone now for 2019.
However i think as part of the standard review post GF, they should be looking at beefing up the points on these charges significantly. As i said, id favor 2 grades of charge

Where the contact is deemed purposeful and/or avoidable to the eye region and where a clear gauging action takes place, it's a grade 2 and a base penalty of 2400 points
Where the contact is deemed purposeful and/or avoidable to the eye region and where no clear gauging action takes place, it's a grade 1 and a base penalty of 1200 points
Where contact is deemed accidental and/or unavoidable to the eye region and where no clear gauging action takes place, no charge is laid.

Basically, you put your hands up into the eye region of the player and make a gauging action, you're **** cooked.
Yes, I'm talking about introducing tougher measure for next season. Not shifting the goalposts on the eve of the 2019 finals.

I agree that the charge system needs to be adjusted with more specific charges for incidents like eye gouging. Currently it all falls under the "Dangerous Contact" category, which has 100, 200 and 300 points applied. This is way too low for blatant eye gouging incident like we've seen from McGuire*, Burgess and Young. (* referring to McGuire's first indescretion which was the worst of his 3. Curiously only classified as 'Contrary Conduct'). The current system has more severe penalties for shoulder charges, which is ridiculous given the fine line between legal and illegal hits e.g. arms out, elbow away from body etc.

I can't agree with your points suggestion of 1200 and 2400. Its way too much and the MRC would cop out and never resort to laying such charges. Even if they did they would still stuff it up as we've already seen this year with Young and McGuire getting dramatically different charges for almost identical incidents. Bottom line is the MRC does not have the necessary competence to handle this kind of power over players and clubs.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:37 pm I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
OK so based on your own standards Young would get 12 weeks. Burgess probably 16. McGuire 20. I'm cool with that. :thumbsup
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:49 pm
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:37 pm I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
OK so based on your own standards Young would get 12 weeks. Burgess probably 16. McGuire 20. I'm cool with that. :thumbsup
Sounds reasonable. I feel like McGuire should've been rubbed out for a very long time and the NRL absolutely bungled it.

Can you link me to footage of the Burgess incident??
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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I think that’s the key issue. The McGuire offence looked worse on video and affected the player attacked.

The HY one on the weekend had fuzzy video footage, a player who didn’t react in the slightest and who also said he didn’t even notice the incident.

I’m OK with the 8 weeks as HY isn’t keeping his hands away from peoples faces.

What I can’t understand is the lack of action by the MRC and the lack of reaction by media personalities to the McGuire incident.
Why didn’t Finch and Reni Matua go off their nana at McGuire?
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by afgtnk »

Billy Walker wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:35 pm
afgtnk wrote: September 11, 2019, 1:06 pm Really, really disappointed with Young's comments after that verdict was given, above all.

He could've showed some contrition and vowed not to do this again. The act was cut and try, there is no ambiguity. He's done this multiple times now and I feel he's learned nothing from it. I'm not expecting players to be saints, but there needs to be some kind of capacity to change behaviour.

This surely has to be last chance.
I don’t follow your logic regarding his comments mate. Wouldn’t it be worse if he changed his story post hearing? After spending 2 hours saying he’s innocent and didn’t eye gouge to then turn around and own it and effectively say “yeah I did it but won’t do it again” would burn all credibility and make him a liar.

If he truly believes he was innocent I think it’s fair for him to thank those involved but note his disappointment with the outcome like he did.
Nah I only heard what he said after the hearing on the radio.

So knowing now that his position in the hearing was to proclaim innocence, my disappointment is extended to that too. I don't feel an eight week suspension is going to be enough of a deterrent to a guy who's done this for a third time.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by greeneyed »

Paul Kent on why Ricky Stuart went after Ben Ikin: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... f2d9bdf52f
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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greeneyed wrote: September 11, 2019, 5:23 pm Paul Kent on why Ricky Stuart went after Ben Ikin: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... f2d9bdf52f
Kenty makes a pretty good **** point. Of all the idiot media I'd be directing my wrath at, Ben Ikin would've been the last.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:49 pm
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:37 pm I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
OK so based on your own standards Young would get 12 weeks. Burgess probably 16. McGuire 20. I'm cool with that. :thumbsup
Sounds reasonable. I feel like McGuire should've been rubbed out for a very long time and the NRL absolutely bungled it.

Can you link me to footage of the Burgess incident??
About 20 sec into the video
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nine.c ... a6b8ed067f
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by GreenMachine »

Agree with Ricky.

Ikin and his ilk have no right to question whether Ricky’s defensive comments about HY’s incident on the weekend were perpetrated by anything other than the comments from Pompey, the lack of reaction from Pompey and the fact that the issue didn’t even warrant referee action or make it onto the referee report.

The inference made by Ikin, is a bit of a joke, when you consider he openly admits to glossing over Cam Smith’s dirty play, because he was a successful Queensland captain.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Anyway, that was yesterday’s news and there are more important issues for Ricky and us fans to look forward to.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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GreenMachine wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:37 pm Agree with Ricky.

Ikin and his ilk have no right to question whether Ricky’s defensive comments about HY’s incident on the weekend were perpetrated by anything other than the comments from Pompey, the lack of reaction from Pompey and the fact that the issue didn’t even warrant referee action or make it onto the referee report.

The inference made by Ikin, is a bit of a joke, when you consider he openly admits to glossing over Cam Smith’s dirty play, because he was a successful Queensland captain.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Anyway, that was yesterday’s news and there are more important issues for Ricky and us fans to look forward to.
Well said.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by TongueFTW »

Gus Gould on his podcast totally up in arms about the process, particularly the head of the judiciary telling the panel to essentially disregard Pompey’s testimony. Agree 100% with him.

Again want to say - the result is correct (if a little light), but the way it came about and the process was flawed.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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GreenMachine wrote:Agree with Ricky.

Ikin and his ilk have no right to question whether Ricky’s defensive comments about HY’s incident on the weekend were perpetrated by anything other than the comments from Pompey, the lack of reaction from Pompey and the fact that the issue didn’t even warrant referee action or make it onto the referee report.

The inference made by Ikin, is a bit of a joke, when you consider he openly admits to glossing over Cam Smith’s dirty play, because he was a successful Queensland captain.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Anyway, that was yesterday’s news and there are more important issues for Ricky and us fans to look forward to.
Spot on.

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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote:
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:49 pm
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:37 pm I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
OK so based on your own standards Young would get 12 weeks. Burgess probably 16. McGuire 20. I'm cool with that. :thumbsup
Sounds reasonable. I feel like McGuire should've been rubbed out for a very long time and the NRL absolutely bungled it.

Can you link me to footage of the Burgess incident??
About 20 sec into the video
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nine.c ... a6b8ed067f
That’s pretty awful. I’d be giving that 8 weeks for a first offence and throwing the book at him for a second offence, 12-16 weeks
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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What’s the judiciary supposed to do? Let him off because Pompey says so when every man and his dog can see what happened in the vision plain as day?

Result - every charge now goes to the judiciary and they bring their opponent to help get them off. Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty, just who your friends are.

Yet another comment in a long history of Phil Gould touting “common sense” solutions that in reality are actually **** stupid.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by TongueFTW »

The head of the judiciary cannot be giving the panel instructions before they deliberate. It makes a complete mockery of the supposedly independent process.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:52 pm What’s the judiciary supposed to do? Let him off because Pompey says so when every man and his dog can see what happened in the vision plain as day?

Result - every charge now goes to the judiciary and they bring their opponent to help get them off. Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty, just who your friends are.

Yet another comment in a long history of Phil Gould touting “common sense” solutions that in reality are actually **** stupid.
Ever seen a player not react on field after getting eye gouged before now?
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by TongueFTW »

Besides, most people I know - if they were eye gouged, they would not want to be testifying on behalf of the grub that did it. Wonder if Burgess asked Farah to testify? I genuinely think Pompey did not believe he was eye gouged.
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Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by gangrenous »

kiwi raider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:52 pm What’s the judiciary supposed to do? Let him off because Pompey says so when every man and his dog can see what happened in the vision plain as day?

Result - every charge now goes to the judiciary and they bring their opponent to help get them off. Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty, just who your friends are.

Yet another comment in a long history of Phil Gould touting “common sense” solutions that in reality are actually **** stupid.
Ever seen a player not react on field after getting eye gouged before now?
Ever considered that failing in your endeavour to be a grub doesn’t justify a pass, particularly when you are returning from being suspended from that exact act and are supposed to have learned something?
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

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TongueFTW wrote:Besides, most people I know - if they were eye gouged, they would not want to be testifying on behalf of the grub that did it. Wonder if Burgess asked Farah to testify? I genuinely think Pompey did not believe he was eye gouged.
Pompey is happy to do that since Young didn’t actually succeed in getting him very well. Had he succeeded then Pompey would have undoubtedly been less impressed.

Doesn’t change that you can see what he was going for.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by GreenMachine »

gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:52 pm What’s the judiciary supposed to do? Let him off because Pompey says so when every man and his dog can see what happened in the vision plain as day?

Result - every charge now goes to the judiciary and they bring their opponent to help get them off. Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty, just who your friends are.

Yet another comment in a long history of Phil Gould touting “common sense” solutions that in reality are actually **** stupid.
You make a good point.
I’ve advocated for a while now that I would get rid of the judicial process altogether.
Players get charged post a review and the penalties are standard.
I’d get rid of the ‘grey’ in the grading system.
It’s either an accident, careless, reckless or deliberate.
As long as you have ‘contact’, you cop one of the 4 categories.
Accidents would be a fine based on % of salary.
Careless 3 weeks.
Reckless 6 weeks
Deliberate 9 weeks.
Double the penalty for a repeat offence within a season.
That’s it.
Same panel come up with the charge for every game to ensure consistency and there’s no wasted time on Tuesday nights.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by kiwi raider »

gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:58 pm
kiwi raider wrote:
gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:52 pm What’s the judiciary supposed to do? Let him off because Pompey says so when every man and his dog can see what happened in the vision plain as day?

Result - every charge now goes to the judiciary and they bring their opponent to help get them off. Doesn’t matter if you’re guilty, just who your friends are.

Yet another comment in a long history of Phil Gould touting “common sense” solutions that in reality are actually **** stupid.
Ever seen a player not react on field after getting eye gouged before now?
Ever considered that failing in your endeavour to be a grub doesn’t justify a pass, particularly when you are returning from being suspended from that exact act and are supposed to have learned something?
Fair, I just don't think you should be able to be found guilty of eye gouging when you didn't actually eye gouge
Is everyone that takes a swing and misses now getting charged with striking? All People that stick a foot out but miss get charged with tripping? It just doesn't make sense from a law/criminal point of view imo, it'd be like just chucking murder charges at people when no one died
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by raiderskater »

I have no issues with the conviction; it was obvious he did it. I was surprised at the penalty; 8 weeks is lighter than I expected.

I am massively uncomfortable with the chair of the judiciary effectively calling Pompey a liar out of "player loyalty", particularly when earlier this year, Munster refusing to make a complaint was the reason McGuire got a fine. And Munster and McGuire have actual ties of loyalty (QLD Origin), as opposed to Pompey and Young, who as far as I know, have no ties beyond that they were opponents last weekend.

It really is a kangaroo court and something needs to be done about it.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by greeneyed »

Canberra Raiders players baffled by Hudson Young suspension

Canberra players say they're baffled by the NRL judiciary's decision to ban Hudson Young despite the alleged victim defending the Raiders forward.

"I feel sorry for Hudson," said Elliott Whitehead. "I don't really understand how you can get [suspended] when the victim is saying he didn't do it. I'm sure he'll he get the support from the club and the players here.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Canberra Times sport podcast: Was it right to ban Hudson Young for eight weeks? https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by gangrenous »

kiwi raider wrote: Fair, I just don't think you should be able to be found guilty of eye gouging when you didn't actually eye gouge
Is everyone that takes a swing and misses now getting charged with striking? All People that stick a foot out but miss get charged with tripping? It just doesn't make sense from a law/criminal point of view imo, it'd be like just chucking murder charges at people when no one died
Your murder analogy has the obvious “attempted murder” charge.

You can consider Young’s charge as “attempted gouge” if it makes you happy. It still is deserving of this punishment.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 6:48 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:49 pm
The Rickman wrote: September 11, 2019, 2:37 pm I'm just not comparing him to other people. With the inconsistency of the MRC and the judiciary you could make a case for him getting anywhere between a fine and life in jail.

I'm judging it solely on his own actions and history, and I think it's 12 weeks. Very happy he got 8.
OK so based on your own standards Young would get 12 weeks. Burgess probably 16. McGuire 20. I'm cool with that. :thumbsup
Sounds reasonable. I feel like McGuire should've been rubbed out for a very long time and the NRL absolutely bungled it.

Can you link me to footage of the Burgess incident??
About 20 sec into the video
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nine.c ... a6b8ed067f
That’s pretty awful. I’d be giving that 8 weeks for a first offence and throwing the book at him for a second offence, 12-16 weeks
It was his 2nd offence which is why he got 9 weeks.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by gangrenous »

raiderskater wrote: I am massively uncomfortable with the chair of the judiciary effectively calling Pompey a liar out of "player loyalty", particularly when earlier this year, Munster refusing to make a complaint was the reason McGuire got a fine. And Munster and McGuire have actual ties of loyalty (QLD Origin), as opposed to Pompey and Young, who as far as I know, have no ties beyond that they were opponents last weekend.
It doesn’t matter what Pompey says to be honest. Everyone knows the player code and he’s likely to say the same damn thing in any scenario.

The Munster issue stemmed more from there being no footage IIRC. So they couldn’t charge without any evidence. Not the case here. Having said that I think they should have charged him on the basis of Munster’s initial complaint. Letting him withdraw it is a bad look for the game once all the viewers know the guilty man walks.
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by greeneyed »

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Hear from Canberra Raiders forwards Elliott Whitehead and Ryan Sutton on re-signing with the Green Machine - and the suspension of Hudson Young. WIN News Canberra reports: http://ow.ly/2AW850w59bz

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kiwi raider
Steve Walters
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by kiwi raider »

gangrenous wrote: September 11, 2019, 7:13 pm
kiwi raider wrote: Fair, I just don't think you should be able to be found guilty of eye gouging when you didn't actually eye gouge
Is everyone that takes a swing and misses now getting charged with striking? All People that stick a foot out but miss get charged with tripping? It just doesn't make sense from a law/criminal point of view imo, it'd be like just chucking murder charges at people when no one died
Your murder analogy has the obvious “attempted murder” charge.

You can consider Young’s charge as “attempted gouge” if it makes you happy. It still is deserving of this punishment.
So charge him with attempted eye gouging/ contrary conduct .
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by gangrenous »

Does it really matter? Are we that worried about the wording?
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Re: Hudson Young suspended for eight weeks

Post by -PJ- »

greeneyed wrote: September 11, 2019, 7:10 pm Canberra Raiders players baffled by Hudson Young suspension

Canberra players say they're baffled by the NRL judiciary's decision to ban Hudson Young despite the alleged victim defending the Raiders forward.

"I feel sorry for Hudson," said Elliott Whitehead. "I don't really understand how you can get [suspended] when the victim is saying he didn't do it. I'm sure he'll he get the support from the club and the players here.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239

Canberra Times sport podcast: Was it right to ban Hudson Young for eight weeks? https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
I'd like the boys to let this go and focus on a game they're invited to this weekend.

It's done..
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