Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
Refs are freely using the sin bin lately, which I applaud. But I don't think they're sure when to use it or not. This is the true source of the inconsistency. Thats not the fault of the officials on the field. Its poor leadership by those that direct them.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
And look I’m being as straight as I can here

You say that last sentence and believe that. I know you’re not trolling, I know there is no inherent know bias here. And you really believe this is cut and dry, black and white, Wrong call

And you don’t even think it’s debatable

And I’m here feeling the same way about the call the other. With again no trolling, no bias. And to me it’s clear and not debatable

So how can the refs win? Because next week we could see the same incident but the official on duty that week might interpret it the way you did instead or mine. When the fans can even figure it out with a consensus, it’s hard to hang the officials for inconstancy imo
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by reptar »

Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 29, 2019, 5:45 pm
BJ wrote:
Matt wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: July 29, 2019, 1:00 pm A funny thought. Would also be typical of the NRL to try and introduce a sophisticated and expensive technology to counteract a lack of basic competence.
Image
Its a great idea, and yet, as NR points out, the reason for it is ridiculous.
TBH, even if they did, these people watch footy, and therefore will know the incident even with the technological digital reenactment that is person-less.
I’d like to see amateur actors used to recreate the incident for the judiciary.

Anyone who remembers the Wizz Bang theatre company from fast forward will get the acting levels I require.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Coastalraider »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
And look I’m being as straight as I can here

You say that last sentence and believe that. I know you’re not trolling, I know there is no inherent know bias here. And you really believe this is cut and dry, black and white, Wrong call

And you don’t even think it’s debatable

And I’m here feeling the same way about the call the other. With again no trolling, no bias. And to me it’s clear and not debatable

So how can the refs win? Because next week we could see the same incident but the official on duty that week might interpret it the way you did instead or mine. When the fans can even figure it out with a consensus, it’s hard to hang the officials for inconstancy imo
I think a piece missing is the explanation. I know it’s very dangerous territory to require explanations for decisions, but when I listen to sports ears on the odd occasion, I’m far more balanced in my opinion of the refs. Even though I may not always agree, hearing what the reasoning was rather than just thinking they are biased or incompetent makes it a lot more tolerable.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Coastalraider wrote: July 30, 2019, 6:15 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
And look I’m being as straight as I can here

You say that last sentence and believe that. I know you’re not trolling, I know there is no inherent know bias here. And you really believe this is cut and dry, black and white, Wrong call

And you don’t even think it’s debatable

And I’m here feeling the same way about the call the other. With again no trolling, no bias. And to me it’s clear and not debatable

So how can the refs win? Because next week we could see the same incident but the official on duty that week might interpret it the way you did instead or mine. When the fans can even figure it out with a consensus, it’s hard to hang the officials for inconstancy imo
I think a piece missing is the explanation. I know it’s very dangerous territory to require explanations for decisions, but when I listen to sports ears on the odd occasion, I’m far more balanced in my opinion of the refs. Even though I may not always agree, hearing what the reasoning was rather than just thinking they are biased or incompetent makes it a lot more tolerable.
Yeah I agree that it’s a missing piece of the puzzle and dangerous. I think the MRC should be releasing their reasoning for each referral and charge too. Doesn’t have to be in-depth just a quick paragraph that says “we felt it met the criteria for grade 1 because of x y z and failed to meet the criteria for grade 2 for a b c”

I don’t know if it stops any of the complaints, but at least you know where they came from
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Coastalraider »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 6:23 pm
Coastalraider wrote: July 30, 2019, 6:15 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:44 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
And look I’m being as straight as I can here

You say that last sentence and believe that. I know you’re not trolling, I know there is no inherent know bias here. And you really believe this is cut and dry, black and white, Wrong call

And you don’t even think it’s debatable

And I’m here feeling the same way about the call the other. With again no trolling, no bias. And to me it’s clear and not debatable

So how can the refs win? Because next week we could see the same incident but the official on duty that week might interpret it the way you did instead or mine. When the fans can even figure it out with a consensus, it’s hard to hang the officials for inconstancy imo
I think a piece missing is the explanation. I know it’s very dangerous territory to require explanations for decisions, but when I listen to sports ears on the odd occasion, I’m far more balanced in my opinion of the refs. Even though I may not always agree, hearing what the reasoning was rather than just thinking they are biased or incompetent makes it a lot more tolerable.
Yeah I agree that it’s a missing piece of the puzzle and dangerous. I think the MRC should be releasing their reasoning for each referral and charge too. Doesn’t have to be in-depth just a quick paragraph that says “we felt it met the criteria for grade 1 because of x y z and failed to meet the criteria for grade 2 for a b c”

I don’t know if it stops any of the complaints, but at least you know where they came from
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Matt »

reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 29, 2019, 5:45 pm
BJ wrote:
Matt wrote:
Image
Its a great idea, and yet, as NR points out, the reason for it is ridiculous.
TBH, even if they did, these people watch footy, and therefore will know the incident even with the technological digital reenactment that is person-less.
I’d like to see amateur actors used to recreate the incident for the judiciary.

Anyone who remembers the Wizz Bang theatre company from fast forward will get the acting levels I require.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by reptar »

Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 29, 2019, 5:45 pm
BJ wrote: I’d like to see amateur actors used to recreate the incident for the judiciary.

Anyone who remembers the Wizz Bang theatre company from fast forward will get the acting levels I require.
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I like where your heads are at @BJ and Reptar
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

PigRickman wrote:
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:59 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
And look I’m being as straight as I can here

You say that last sentence and believe that. I know you’re not trolling, I know there is no inherent know bias here. And you really believe this is cut and dry, black and white, Wrong call

And you don’t even think it’s debatable

And I’m here feeling the same way about the call the other. With again no trolling, no bias. And to me it’s clear and not debatable

So how can the refs win? Because next week we could see the same incident but the official on duty that week might interpret it the way you did instead or mine. When the fans can even figure it out with a consensus, it’s hard to hang the officials for inconstancy imo
I think the refs are good. Even though I don’t agree with everything, I think the main problem with the referees is the perception of how perfect they’re going to be.

Most of the calls people claim cost them the game are straight up 50/50’s.

Every once in a while there’s a Clanger, but overwhelmingly they do a great job.

I think the NRL should ban CH9 in particular carrying on about calls during the game, has a big effect on the culture IMO

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gangrenous »

The thing that **** me about the commentators ref bashing is that half the time they don’t even know the rules.

Like from this weekend, whinging about Penrith’s knock on because the tackler didn’t play at it...
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:15 pm The thing that **** me about the commentators ref bashing is that half the time they don’t even know the rules.

Like from this weekend, whinging about Penrith’s knock on because the tackler didn’t play at it...
Haha the panthers players were having that too and what about that young kid Laui, who tried to argue about the offside because the ball bounced... like what the **** are you talking about m8?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Neeeegz »

If we had our time again, i would like to of seen us challenge the grading at least. Nicks was a great tackle, and it rolled with momentum at high speed. There was worse intent with jurbos tackle.

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gangrenous »

Throwing my two cents in on Ponga. I see that as him moving off his line and playing the man not the ball. So penalty and mandatory sin bin for professional foul on try scoring opportunity and high tackle.

Given the injury suffered he should also have been suspended due to it coming from an illegal play.

My two cents on Jurbo. Cotric’s was worse to my eyes. Think Jurbo should have had a grade 2 though.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

1000% agree with that

All this **** is driven by media Bull, the personalities at channel 9 are cheif among them.
It's what i was saying earlier, like you can write the monalogue Gould would go on right now if a MRC that included some legal minded people who had limited experience in the game started making calls he disagreed with, and the mindless masses would latch on

One of the things really holding this code back is the agenda driven Bull that comes from those covering the game who think they own the game and own it's direction. Like who **** died and make Phillip Ronald **** Gould the grand emperior of "understanding footy"
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:19 pm Throwing my two cents in on Ponga. I see that as him moving off his line and playing the man not the ball. So penalty and mandatory sin bin for professional foul on try scoring opportunity and high tackle.

Given the injury suffered he should also have been suspended due to it coming from an illegal play.

My two cents on Jurbo. Cotric’s was worse to my eyes. Think Jurbo should have had a grade 2 though.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gangrenous »

For the record you’re presently smashing it out of the park on Phil Gould too. His takes are, for the most part, completely devoid of logic. The NRL would do itself a huge favour by punting 9 and cleaning the commentary slate.

If he gets a terminal illness (not wishing that upon him of course, I hope he lives a long happy life off my television screen), then he should request that he should only be treated by those who’ve had terminal illness before. They’re the only people who understand after all
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

I’ll tell you what. Initially I started by thinking Pigman was joking.
But this thread has really opened my eyes to how wrong most of you are.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gerg »

The problem is the lack of consistency and the lurching from focusing on one area of the game then onto the next, and it's completely reactive.

They have been criticised for letting forward passes go for far too long. They ignore the criticism for 18 rounds, then bang, we have 5 called a game. They'll focus on it for another week or two then they'll target something else for two weeks.

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:55 pm I’ll tell you what. Initially I started by thinking Pigman was joking.
But this thread has really opened my eyes to how wrong most of you are.
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

I was just thinking today after the discussions here who was on the MRC and just stumbled into this

Annesley defended the panel's independence from League Central, which adjudicates each year on who makes up the MRC.

Former Eels and Bears five-eighth Michael Buettner acts as the committee's chairman with ex-players Stuart Raper, Michael Robertson and Michael Hodgson currently serving and up for review at the end of the season.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/29/ref ... er-errors/

That's two former raiders on the committe, no?

Make of that what you will
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Coastalraider »

I am constantly amazing at how many people in the game that make their living from the NRL spend such a large majority of their time creating negative commentary around the product that pays them.

If any of us spent half the energy badmouthing our own industries, we would be finding ourselves in the unemployment cue very quickly.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Woodgers »

FYI i'm with Beejay on the Ponga call.

I mostly played fullback or outside backs growing up and I think about scenarios like that and you're just competing for the ball. If you don't they call you horrible names like Darius. This incident crosses over with the spear tackle thing on intent because Ponga is coming across battling for the ball, not shouldering a bloke into next week on purpose (don't get me started on the shoulder charge rule on the whole). The fact Chee Kam got jammed between 2 desperate defenders is the result of a collision sport, not someone breaking the rules. It happens. If Ponga is half a second in front there and Chee Kam dives for the ball but bumps Ponga in the head accidently I say it's no penalty against the Tigers either. We're 100% oversanitising the game. People are going to have views on that comment and agree or disagree again, and i'm all about the rules protecting the players long term (i've even worked on concussion in sport policy), but I also understand that when I sign the form for my 9 year old lad to play the game there is every chance he cops a whack unintentionally here or there like I did. It's a high risk activity, if we dilute that completely then you might as well just pack up the NRL completely as a marketable sport.

I actually don't know what the solution is on the intent part because as others have said in the past 2 days in this thread it is a very grey area to officiate....but what makes me feel a desperate amount of hopelessness is Perenara (worst ref in the comp) played fullback and understood what went on but the delay in the game meant he got the call from upstairs and had to put a player in the bin that he would've known was just doing what he was supposed to. I can't explain Ponga's comments besides he's been media trained within an inch of his life to exhibit perfection because I bet he said the opposite to his teammates who expect he dives for that ball.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Woodgers »

One of them completely aggrieved with the club from all reports. I won't argue the toss because I know your agenda on this stuff but I don't think listing Robertson is a tick in the Raiders box.

I am glad to see Hodgson is on there though. In all my few dealings with NRL players, he seemed like an extremely level-headed bloke. Glad to see he's still involved in the game and I can't for the life of me understand how him and Buettner lost the fight against Raper and Robertson on the Jake T call :D
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Haha, no agenda. It was presented without comment.
There is plenty of examples where people with history sway too far one way in a sort of way to prove they aren't biased, and plenty where it goes the otherway. But i just found it interesting that those two were in that position.

But the Raiders do have an interesting sort of connnection throughout the game, be it in places like this, and most noteably the coaching ranks.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Woodgers »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 9:07 pm Haha, no agenda. It was presented without comment.

There is plenty of examples where people with history sway too far one way in a sort of way to prove they aren't biased, and plenty where it goes the otherway. But i just found it interesting that those two were in that position.

But the Raiders do have an interesting sort of connnection throughout the game, be it in places like this, and most noteably the coaching ranks.
To be honest that's a fair assessment and I see it and why I needed a good month or so break from this forum and online footy chat.
We continue to **** about with blokes that are part of some fraternity. It's infuriating.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by yeh raiders »

gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:19 pm Throwing my two cents in on Ponga. I see that as him moving off his line and playing the man not the ball. So penalty and mandatory sin bin for professional foul on try scoring opportunity and high tackle.

Given the injury suffered he should also have been suspended due to it coming from an illegal play.

My two cents on Jurbo. Cotric’s was worse to my eyes. Think Jurbo should have had a grade 2 though.
I think I’m leaning toward this regarding the Ponga incident. Accident or not, he has responsibility not to make contact with the head. That’s the way the game has been officiated for the last decade or so, and it’s probably fair.

I don’t think it’s worth much more thought, these things rarely happen and it’s not like the completely ridiculous situation we’re suffering from with this absurd crackdown on flat passes.

As a rugby league diehard, It pains me to watch these passes being called back. I loath the Melbourne Storm, but that forward pass call during Golden Point deserved a penalty ... against the referee’s pay check ... for royalling **** up.

Fancy making a forward pass call from 20 metres away, with a pass that provided absolutely no advantage to the attacking team whatsoever and never looked forward or even ugly. Sometimes ugly passes can look worse than they really are, this was a regulation end-over-end 2 metre pass from one man standing next to another who is behind him when the ball is thrown. Embarrassing.

Can you tell I’m upset?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Seiffert82 »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:17 pm
gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:15 pm The thing that **** me about the commentators ref bashing is that half the time they don’t even know the rules.

Like from this weekend, whinging about Penrith’s knock on because the tackler didn’t play at it...
Haha the panthers players were having that too and what about that young kid Laui, who tried to argue about the offside because the ball bounced... like what the **** are you talking about m8?
Yeah, the Penrith players, coach and many of their fans lost their **** on Sunday based on absolutely nothing at all. They just got squarely beaten by a much better team, but refused to believe it.

On the whole I think the refs do a damn good job in a high speed, high impact, high stress environment. I've never refereed a game of League in my life, but I can't imagine it's an easy thing to do. There are many times I've blown up wondering what the hell the ref is doing, only to concede after the replay that they got the decision spot on.

What irritates me is the mistakes made by the video refs (admittedly becoming less of an issue) and particularly the inconsistencies in what is considered worthy of 10 mins in the bin, and/or the penalties handed down by the MRC - who have all the time in the world to consider the evidence and precedence. Gouging, trips, spear tackles - we've seen it all this season - so much inconsistency.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gangrenous »

Woodgers, if Ponga is competing for the ball - why is he still almost fully upright over the ball at the point of collision?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

gangrenous wrote: July 31, 2019, 6:50 am Woodgers, if Ponga is competing for the ball - why is he still almost fully upright over the ball at the point of collision?
He never gets to the ball. It’s on the other side of Chee Kam. Chee Kam misses it as he’s bumped by the other Newcastle player, and the ball beats them all.

I still can’t comprehend we are all watching the same replay.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/26/ponga-sin-binned/
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by The Nickman »

reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:02 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm It's on my shoulders, Matt!
Don't ever change.
How's Frank?
I don't know, currently on a flight to Sydney. He was good this morning when I left for work, but he knows the suitcase means I won't be home for a while. He's probably plotting revenge now.
Oh nice!! What's Frank doing in Sydney??
The Nickman
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by The Nickman »

gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:19 pm Throwing my two cents in on Ponga. I see that as him moving off his line and playing the man not the ball. So penalty and mandatory sin bin for professional foul on try scoring opportunity and high tackle.

Given the injury suffered he should also have been suspended due to it coming from an illegal play.

My two cents on Jurbo. Cotric’s was worse to my eyes. Think Jurbo should have had a grade 2 though.
Oh my god, I agree with everything in a gangrenous post. Might need to reassess my **** life...
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reptar
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by reptar »

The Rickman wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:02 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm It's on my shoulders, Matt!
Don't ever change.
How's Frank?
I don't know, currently on a flight to Sydney. He was good this morning when I left for work, but he knows the suitcase means I won't be home for a while. He's probably plotting revenge now.
Oh nice!! What's Frank doing in Sydney??
Looking for better biscuits.

I dunno, I'll ask him when he gets home tonight.
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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gangrenous
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by gangrenous »

The Rickman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:19 pm Throwing my two cents in on Ponga. I see that as him moving off his line and playing the man not the ball. So penalty and mandatory sin bin for professional foul on try scoring opportunity and high tackle.

Given the injury suffered he should also have been suspended due to it coming from an illegal play.

My two cents on Jurbo. Cotric’s was worse to my eyes. Think Jurbo should have had a grade 2 though.
Oh my god, I agree with everything in a gangrenous post. Might need to reassess my **** life...
Life reassessment result - finally getting something right

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T_R
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by T_R »

The Rickman wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:02 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm It's on my shoulders, Matt!
Don't ever change.
How's Frank?
I don't know, currently on a flight to Sydney. He was good this morning when I left for work, but he knows the suitcase means I won't be home for a while. He's probably plotting revenge now.
Oh nice!! What's Frank doing in Sydney??
He's plotting revenge.

It's right there in the post, Nickman. Make an effort, mate.

Sent from my SM-G975F using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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simo
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by simo »

T_R wrote: July 31, 2019, 5:57 pm
The Rickman wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 7:02 pm
Matt wrote:
reptar wrote: July 30, 2019, 4:53 pm It's on my shoulders, Matt!
Don't ever change.
How's Frank?
I don't know, currently on a flight to Sydney. He was good this morning when I left for work, but he knows the suitcase means I won't be home for a while. He's probably plotting revenge now.
Oh nice!! What's Frank doing in Sydney??
He's plotting revenge.

It's right there in the post, Nickman. Make an effort, mate.

Sent from my SM-G975F using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk
What a complete TR
Dont delete this GE
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