Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:18 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:15 pm You're drunk
Na, i sobered up hours ago!
It's simple NR, if you play the man, hit him early and hit him high, you're going to have a good chance of sitting down for 10
Ponga himself apparently conceded after the game he was correctly penalised. He knows he played the man and fair enough, he's trying to save the game. Didnt work and here we are
I can't tell if you're being serious or taking the piss :lol:
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:47 pm I can't tell if you're being serious or taking the piss :lol:
Funny! Im thinking the same.

Answer these questions, and we'll completely ignore whether Ponga played the man or the ball, because that is probably subjective enough that neither of us will agree, i think he's playing the man, you say the ball... so lets ignore that and agree to disagree.

Does Kalyn Ponga make contact on the chaser early?
Not in question, the answer is yes he did. As per the screen grabs posted above.

Is Kalyn Ponga's first point of contact a shoulder?
Not in question, the answer is yes it was. As per your final screen grab.

Is the that initial contact, with a shoulder, make at the head/neck area?
Not in question, the answer is yes it was. As per your final screen grab.

So we've got early contact with the head or neck, with a shoulder in a clear try scoring situation. And apparently you think that's not a sin bin?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:18 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:15 pm You're drunk
Na, i sobered up hours ago!
It's simple NR, if you play the man, hit him early and hit him high, you're going to have a good chance of sitting down for 10
Ponga himself apparently conceded after the game he was correctly penalised. He knows he played the man and fair enough, he's trying to save the game. Didnt work and here we are
Its plane as day in those picks he's going for the ball then baces for the collision. I can't argue with somebody pointing at the sky and saying its green.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:55 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:47 pm I can't tell if you're being serious or taking the piss :lol:
Funny! Im thinking the same.

Answer these questions, and we'll completely ignore whether Ponga played the man or the ball, because that is probably subjective enough that neither of us will agree, i think he's playing the man, you say the ball... so lets ignore that and agree to disagree.

Does Kalyn Ponga make contact on the chaser early?
Not in question, the answer is yes he did. As per the screen grabs posted above.

Is Kalyn Ponga's first point of contact a shoulder?
Not in question, the answer is yes it was. As per your final screen grab.

Is the that initial contact, with a shoulder, make at the head/neck area?
Not in question, the answer is yes it was. As per your final screen grab.

So we've got early contact with the head or neck, with a shoulder in a clear try scoring situation. And apparently you think that's not a sin bin?
WOW so you are :lol:

He is going for the ball. He doesn't get to it because of a collision of bodies all competing for the ball.
You're off your head.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:58 pm Its plane as day in those picks he's going for the ball then baces for the collision. I can't argue with somebody pointing at the sky and saying its green.
He doesnt brace for the collision, he initiates it with Chee Kam, and in doing so makes contact with his shoulder, to the head. As said, even if you ignore the component of going for the ball... he's got early contact with his shoulder, to the head/neck area. That's not even a subjective call, that's a mandatory penalty. Doesnt matter how it happens.

But i think we've got the root of the problem, you're over there jabbering on about green or blue skies and im left here wondering why when im not point at the sky at all, im pointing at the tackle!
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Northern Raider »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:58 pm Its plane as day in those picks he's going for the ball then baces for the collision. I can't argue with somebody pointing at the sky and saying its green.
He doesnt brace for the collision, he initiates it with Chee Kam, and in doing so makes contact with his shoulder, to the head. As said, even if you ignore the component of going for the ball... he's got early contact with his shoulder, to the head/neck area. That's not even a subjective call, that's a mandatory penalty. Doesnt matter how it happens.

But i think we've got the root of the problem, you're over there jabbering on about green or blue skies and im left here wondering why when im not point at the sky at all, im pointing at the tackle!
You didn't mention eyes only for the player.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

Anyone who knows the rules of the game knows that he didn't break them. It's (funnily enough) the reason he wasn't charged.
He wasn't effecting a tackle, he was competing for the ball. So accidental contact with the head is not breaking the rules.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:14 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:58 pm Its plane as day in those picks he's going for the ball then baces for the collision. I can't argue with somebody pointing at the sky and saying its green.
He doesnt brace for the collision, he initiates it with Chee Kam, and in doing so makes contact with his shoulder, to the head. As said, even if you ignore the component of going for the ball... he's got early contact with his shoulder, to the head/neck area. That's not even a subjective call, that's a mandatory penalty. Doesnt matter how it happens.

But i think we've got the root of the problem, you're over there jabbering on about green or blue skies and im left here wondering why when im not point at the sky at all, im pointing at the tackle!
You didn't mention eyes only for the player.
IMO he plays the man, you disagree. But what im saying is as far as the rules go, we dont even need to debate that. Firstly we'll never agree. Secondly it's actually irrelevant. Whether he's playing the man or the ball, if his first contact is with a shoulder to the head or neck, it's a penalty. Again, not a subjective call, if the officials see it, and they could because Chee Kam was KO'd and it allowed them time to review it... it's mandatory. It's a shoulder to the head/neck. You dont need any other component of the tackle known, that's it. And it's a mandatory penalty.

We can all agree ponga's first contact was with his shoulder, and made contact with the head/neck area. So that's locked in. It's absolutely a stone cold, no questions asked penalty.

Given the penalty occurred in a try scoring situation, the sin bin is appropriate imo.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Botman »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:25 pm Anyone who knows the rules of the game knows that he didn't break them. It's (funnily enough) the reason he wasn't charged.
He wasn't effecting a tackle, he was competing for the ball. So accidental contact with the head is not breaking the rules.
You can take that one up with Annesley.

NRL head of football Graham Annesley backed the decision made by the referees on field at his weekly Monday briefing, despite Ponga escaping a match review committee ban.

"The match officials were faced with a situation where they could identify, based on the replay of the video, that there was shoulder to head contact," Annesley said. "There was a serious injury – on the face of it – that flowed from that incident. They decided to take the action that they did based on that shoulder to head contact."

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/if-it- ... 52bup.html
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

He backed his officials who made the call in that moment. But ultimately the decision was wrong.

This is a strange hill to die on :lol:
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:27 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:14 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:11 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 1:58 pm Its plane as day in those picks he's going for the ball then baces for the collision. I can't argue with somebody pointing at the sky and saying its green.
He doesnt brace for the collision, he initiates it with Chee Kam, and in doing so makes contact with his shoulder, to the head. As said, even if you ignore the component of going for the ball... he's got early contact with his shoulder, to the head/neck area. That's not even a subjective call, that's a mandatory penalty. Doesnt matter how it happens.

But i think we've got the root of the problem, you're over there jabbering on about green or blue skies and im left here wondering why when im not point at the sky at all, im pointing at the tackle!
You didn't mention eyes only for the player.
IMO he plays the man, you disagree. But what im saying is as far as the rules go, we dont even need to debate that. Firstly we'll never agree. Secondly it's actually irrelevant. Whether he's playing the man or the ball, if his first contact is with a shoulder to the head or neck, it's a penalty. Again, not a subjective call, if the officials see it, and they could because Chee Kam was KO'd and it allowed them time to review it... it's mandatory. It's a shoulder to the head/neck. You dont need any other component of the tackle known, that's it. And it's a mandatory penalty.

We can all agree ponga's first contact was with his shoulder, and made contact with the head/neck area. So that's locked in. It's absolutely a stone cold, no questions asked penalty.

Given the penalty occurred in a try scoring situation, the sin bin is appropriate imo.
It wasn't a tackle, so it doesn't break any rule. Accidental contact. Seriously. That's why he wasn't charged. He was competing for the ball. My god. Most people know this after playing/following the game for years.

But you can read the rule book here if you like: https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... k-2019.pdf
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:41 pm Most people know this after playing/following the game for years. But you can read the rule book here if you like https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... k-2019.pdf
Thanks mate, you might want to read the rule book yourself, friend.

Page 38
Section 15
PLAYER’S MISCONDUCT
Definition of 1. A player is guilty of misconduct if he:
misconduct
(b) when effecting or attempting to effect a tackle makes contact with the head or neck of an opponent intentionally, recklessly or carelessly.

It's quite literally black and white.

You'll have to point me to the part of the rule which states accidental contact to the head or neck area is not misconduct.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:49 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:41 pm Most people know this after playing/following the game for years. But you can read the rule book here if you like https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/operatio ... k-2019.pdf
Thanks mate, you might want to read the rule book yourself, friend.

Page 38
Section 15
PLAYER’S MISCONDUCT
Definition of 1. A player is guilty of misconduct if he:
misconduct
(b) when effecting or attempting to effect a tackle makes contact with the head or neck of an opponent intentionally, recklessly or carelessly.

It's quite literally black and white.
:shock:
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by Beejay »

He's going for the ball. How many times does it need to be said.

The ball is bouncing around in his ingoal, and he is trying to get to it to knock it dead.
Unreal
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:54 pm He's going for the ball. How many times does it need to be said.

The ball is bouncing around in his ingoal, and he is trying to get to it to knock it dead.
Unreal
Go on, Beejay.
You find me the part of that rule book that states accidental contact to the head or neck is not a penalty.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Anyone have a replay of this I can watch?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:56 pm
Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:54 pm He's going for the ball. How many times does it need to be said.

The ball is bouncing around in his ingoal, and he is trying to get to it to knock it dead.
Unreal
Go on, Beejay.
You find me the part of that rule book that states accidental contact to the head or neck is not a penalty.
Rule books don't list things that aren't penalties, jesus.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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I dont know what more i can do for you, Beejay.

You've given me your rule book, i've shown you clearly where it states he's in breach of the rules by making contact with the head/neck area (and by initiating contact, he is deemed to be attempting to attempting a tackle, which is also obstruction under Section 15 too since the tigers player was not in possession of the football) and was penalised accordingly.''

You may not like the rule, you may think the rule is overkill in terms of player safety and you may think the rule is applied inconsistently. But contact in this context, where a defender initiates contact, to the head or neck is a penalty. It's that simple.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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It's not my rule book, it's the ARL rule book. He's not attempting a tackle. Not in any definition. He's competing for the ball, he's on his line, it's not obstruction. There is not anything you said there that is correct.

The MRC have clearly reviewed it in the cold light of day. They haven't charged him with a grade 1, 2 or 3. They did not charge him. Why do you think that is? Do you think maybe it's because he didn't break the rules?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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The Rickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:56 pm Anyone have a replay of this I can watch?
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/26/ponga-sin-binned/
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Yeah look, im done. We'll do this all day :lol:

We're already at the point of repeating ourselves adnauseaum. I've said how i saw it, ive watch that replay a dozen times now and am comfortable with it. IMO and many others the refs got it right. You and many others think he got it wrong.

Hard for officials to win, isnt it?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Pigman, you should the right attributes to be part of the MRC.

Take that in any way you like. :)
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:21 pm Why do you think that is? Do you think maybe it's because he didn't break the rules?
Probably the same reason they didnt charge Nathan Cleary for his high shot on Croker. They deemed the penalty handed down by the officials was sufficient.

Not every high contact incident in a game receives a charge from the MRC, in fact the vast majority dont as they are deemed to have been sufficiently dealt with in the game.

Ugh, see you're trying to drag me back in! :lol:

Im actually done. There is nothing to be gained here.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:28 pm Pigman, you should the right attributes to be part of the MRC.

Take that in any way you like. :)
I cant even understand it, least of all take it anyway NR!
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:30 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:28 pm Pigman, you should the right attributes to be part of the MRC.

Take that in any way you like. :)
I cant even understand it, least of all take it anyway NR!
Meant to be 'show'. Combination of typo an autcorrect. :lol:

Anyway, I've put in a recommendation for you. Expect a call from Peter Beattie any time soon. :)
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:32 pm
PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:30 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:28 pm Pigman, you should the right attributes to be part of the MRC.

Take that in any way you like. :)
I cant even understand it, least of all take it anyway NR!
Meant to be 'show'. Combination of typo an autcorrect. :lol:

Anyway, I've put in a recommendation for you. Expect a call from Peter Beattie any time soon. :)
Haha foiled by your own eagerness!

I’d enjoy that job I reckon, I could really spice things up around here

Like imagine having the power to grant Nic Cotric a fine for his tackle and then sit Cleary 8 weeks for his high shot and watching the GH fall over themselves to justify such a thing?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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OK, sounds promising.

....and Josh McGuire?
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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I'd really like to see a poll on this. I can't believe Pigman thinks this.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:39 pm ....and Josh McGuire?
Oh that prick is getting a direct referral if he even steps on the god damn field
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:40 pm I'd really like to see a poll on this. I can't believe Pigman thinks this.
It's not a poll, but the comments here are pretty varied. Plenty of reasonable people, with no dog in the fight saying it was the right call

Plenty saying it was wrong too
https://forums.leagueunlimited.com/thre ... 08/page-17

Greeneyed was in agreement in our own matchday thread that it was the correct call.

Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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Now you're saying anonymous people on an internet forum are 'reasonable people'. You've definitely lost it. :lol:
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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haha, i've got no reason to believe they're any more reasonable than you, old friend!

In fact knowing them less than you is a decisive mark in their favor
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

Post by The Nickman »

Beejay wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:21 pm
The Rickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 2:56 pm Anyone have a replay of this I can watch?
https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/26/ponga-sin-binned/
Seems like a penalty and 10 in the bin suits that, IMO. No need for a suspension.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:44 pm
Which is my point when bringing this up. The officials cant win, can they? Half of us think it was correct, half of us think it was a joke.

Hate #refsfault culture.

That is an issue.

The Ponga decision didn't cost anyone the game. But it was wrong.
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Re: Nick Cotric takes early plea, suspended three weeks

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PigRickman wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:41 pm
Northern Raider wrote: July 30, 2019, 3:39 pm ....and Josh McGuire?
Oh that prick is getting a direct referral if he even steps on the god damn field
OK. I'm on board.
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