Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

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Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by greeneyed » July 8, 2019, 8:03 pm

... about to appear now.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by -PJ- » July 8, 2019, 8:13 pm

What's he wearing ?
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by greeneyed » July 8, 2019, 8:20 pm

Ricky Stuart interview:

English players... what do they bring that is different? Over the years, recruited players from Queensland, led by Mal Meninga, and New Zealand. When I first got to the club, the squad had to be re-built. I found it difficult to recruit the sort of players we need, experienced players, players who know how to win. They're all internationals, except Ryan Sutton, who I believe will play for England. They're all really good blokes and you know where they stand as football players. They're good players, that's what you need at the big end of the season. Good players in form.

More mature squad. John Bateman is very mature, the core of the squad has matured immensely, off the back of some tough results of the last 12 or 18 months. It could have broken the team up, but they stuck solid. We're in a healthy position on the ladder but we still haven't achieved anything.

We know what our goals are, what our standard are. We've put a lot of hard work in off the field as well as on the park. I personally believe there are games we should have won this year, when we didn't meet the standard, we should be higher on the ladder.

Eels loss. Some bad individual misses in the tackles and they scored tries. Three tries, when we fell off tackles. The standards of our best players were not reached last match, the younger players come along for the ride. The senior leadership group have to lead, they have contributed to our maturity as well.

Winning close games. Is it attitude or skill? It wasn't attitude, the reason we were losing close games, the players were trying. We just turned over the ball too much, and that's the key. We didn't know how to close out games as we still kept wanting to score points. It is a game won inch by inch, metre by metre, worrying about this set of six. We have to knuckle down and jump into the trenches.

Game management. You need to kick, put the ball into the "cage zone". If you don't get the kicking game right, you don't perform.

How have you changed the defence? A lot more emphasis on defence. 70 per cent of the pre season was defensive work. Not just attitude, you need mentally strong teams. We've had a change of style in defence, as the personnel have allowed the change. We didn't have the squad last year to defend like we do this year.

When is a team premiership ready? You get a feel towards the back end of the season. You have to be battle hardened, you need confidence. I'm not concerned about our attack, I'm focused on making sure we get our defence where it needs to be.

Mick Ennis has been very valuable for us, just come out of the game. Presents very well. Does good video work. The footy players can "smell a rat" quickly. Mick Ennis accepted straight away, he's there for the right reasons. The player like to have him around.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by gangrenous » July 8, 2019, 8:21 pm

Thanks for the heads up GE!

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by bonehead » July 8, 2019, 8:30 pm

cheers General
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by -PJ- » July 8, 2019, 8:38 pm

Good stuff Stick..

We've been a bit stop start the past 3-4 weeks and now we have 9 weeks to jimmy for position in this finals series.

We'll get Papa and Jack back after Origin, Cotric back as well and maybe even BJ..

It's exciting times for the club and its fans..
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by greeneyed » July 8, 2019, 9:27 pm

It was a good interview... they almost got Ricky to say things beyond the generalities on some issues!
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Lui_Bon » July 8, 2019, 11:22 pm

Rick did really well to say that defence is about... how the personnel have allowed the defence to get better. Without saying that getting rid of some personnel has allowed the defence to get better...

All up he seemed pretty confident, which made me happy.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Lui_Bon » July 8, 2019, 11:24 pm

Oh, and while he seemed reluctant to talk up Mick Ennis, it seems that he rates his input pretty highly.

Maybe that's with an eye to the future?
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by greeneyed » July 8, 2019, 11:48 pm

Lui_Bon wrote:
July 8, 2019, 11:22 pm
Rick did really well to say that defence is about... how the personnel have allowed the defence to get better. Without saying that getting rid of some personnel has allowed the defence to get better...

All up he seemed pretty confident, which made me happy.
He pretty much said that.
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Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by gangrenous » July 9, 2019, 8:01 am

It was a good interview. Only bit I found concerning was when Ricky talked about shifting the game plan at 22-0 to go to grind rather than for 42-0.

Now there’s certainly some merit to shifting the game plan when you’ve secured enough points for victory. But the game plan the Raiders have been shifting to either hasn’t been executed, or actively aided the opposition getting back into the match.

Could use a review of the strategy defending comfortable leads imo.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Rickmando » July 9, 2019, 8:32 am

gangrenous wrote:
July 9, 2019, 8:01 am
It was a good interview. Only bit I found concerning was when Ricky talked about shifting the game plan at 22-0 to go to grind rather than for 42-0.

Now there’s certainly some merit to shifting the game plan when you’ve secured enough points for victory. But the game plan the Raiders have been shifting to either hasn’t been executed, or actively aided the opposition getting back into the match.

Could use a review of the strategy defending comfortable leads imo.
I’m concerned too gangers, and voiced this on the Fading Fast thread.

It’s clear that we go into our shells once we get into the lead. This concept of “the grind”, as our HC preaches it, and our current roster interprets it, is way too negative in its execution. They play scared. It’s happened way too often in the past few years for it to be a coincidence.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Botman » July 9, 2019, 8:36 am

This happens across sports worldwide and it'll never make sense to me

You play a certain style and it gets you up 22-0. Why would you change that? It's clearly working.
Conversely, you play a certain style, go down 22-0, then start playing a different style to play "catch up" and drag it back to 22-18, then all of a sudden you go back to the original game plan which got you in the hole to begin with!

It's crazy
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Northern Raider » July 9, 2019, 8:53 am

PigRickman wrote:
July 9, 2019, 8:36 am
This happens across sports worldwide and it'll never make sense to me

You play a certain style and it gets you up 22-0. Why would you change that? It's clearly working.
Conversely, you play a certain style, go down 22-0, then start playing a different style to play "catch up" and drag it back to 22-18, then all of a sudden you go back to the original game plan which got you in the hole to begin with!

It's crazy
Yep, always baffled me. It's very prevelant in the NFL where teams get out to a lead then try to run the clock down. Basically opens the door for the other team to come back.

It should be simple. If your game plan is working, stick to it.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Botman » July 9, 2019, 8:55 am

Soccer too, teams go down 2-0, start playing aggressively on the counters and pushing up field, get it back to 2-1 or 2-2.. immediately revert back to some super passive park the bus style
It's just insane.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Northern Raider » July 9, 2019, 8:55 am

"We didn't have the squad last year to defend like we do this year."

Interesting comment this one. I can only think it directly references the lack of mobility in the middle from Boyd and Paulo along with Austin doing his own thing on the edge.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by simo » July 9, 2019, 9:23 am

Northern Raider wrote:
July 9, 2019, 8:55 am
"We didn't have the squad last year to defend like we do this year."

Interesting comment this one. I can only think it directly references the lack of mobility in the middle from Boyd and Paulo along with Austin doing his own thing on the edge.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by amiafish » July 9, 2019, 10:29 am

I love Ricky Stuart as a person and player, but he is simply dead wrong about protecting a lead...and it has cost us numerous times in the last few years.

He's laboring under a false dichotomy; that when you hold a healthy lead the only two choices are to throw the ball around with gay abandon or to shut up shop and play super low-risk football. Of course, there is a third way...simply play balanced football (the kind of football that probably got you the lead in the first place).

Think of it in terms of game theory. If an opposition team is down 18-nil at half-time, and they had the choice to select the winning team's strategy for the next 40 minutes, how would they choose from the following three options in order of preference:
(1) Winning team starts throwing the ball around;
(2) Winning team goes risk-off and starts going one-out/running from dummy-half for the first 4 tackles, runs a spreading block play on the 5th, and kicks on the sixth; or
(3) Winning team keeps playing the type of football they played in the first half to get the 18-nil lead?

In my opinion, they would choose option 2 first, option 1 as second, and would avoid option 3 like the plague.

Shutting up shop holds no down-side risk for the losing team...they don't need to worry about going down further on the scoreboard, so they can increase the riskiness of their own play with impunity. This tends to increase their confidence, tends to result in tries, which further increases their confidence, which leads to further tries etc. Put simply, option 2 is a the worst strategy possible...it is all downside with no compensatory upside.

Option 1, by contrast, is a 'flip of the coin' proposition. There is the risk that errors will mount up, the losing opposition gets possession and field position, and then works their way back into the game. There is however, the upside potential that the opposition is blown off the park, the attack grows in confidence for future games, and our for/against ratio improves.

That leaves us with our clear winner...option 3. Just keep playing good quality, attacking football. It keeps the pressure on the opposition, they stay gassed in defence which makes their attack less effective. They are more likely to revert to panic football with the ball. We are more likely to keep scoring and increase the lead. They are more likely to, at some point, throw in the towel and start arm-tackling.

Am I missing something obvious here?

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 9, 2019, 10:57 am

Winning close games. Is it attitude or skill? It wasn't attitude, the reason we were losing close games, the players were trying.

That was the most interesting comment for me. So is he saying the team wasn't skillful enough to win close games last year?
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Rickmando » July 9, 2019, 10:59 am

amiafish wrote:
July 9, 2019, 10:29 am
I love Ricky Stuart as a person and player, but he is simply dead wrong about protecting a lead...and it has cost us numerous times in the last few years.

He's laboring under a false dichotomy; that when you hold a healthy lead the only two choices are to throw the ball around with gay abandon or to shut up shop and play super low-risk football. Of course, there is a third way...simply play balanced football (the kind of football that probably got you the lead in the first place).

Think of it in terms of game theory. If an opposition team is down 18-nil at half-time, and they had the choice to select the winning team's strategy for the next 40 minutes, how would they choose from the following three options in order of preference:
(1) Winning team starts throwing the ball around;
(2) Winning team goes risk-off and starts going one-out/running from dummy-half for the first 4 tackles, runs a spreading block play on the 5th, and kicks on the sixth; or
(3) Winning team keeps playing the type of football they played in the first half to get the 18-nil lead?

In my opinion, they would choose option 2 first, option 1 as second, and would avoid option 3 like the plague.

Shutting up shop holds no down-side risk for the losing team...they don't need to worry about going down further on the scoreboard, so they can increase the riskiness of their own play with impunity. This tends to increase their confidence, tends to result in tries, which further increases their confidence, which leads to further tries etc. Put simply, option 2 is a the worst strategy possible...it is all downside with no compensatory upside.

Option 1, by contrast, is a 'flip of the coin' proposition. There is the risk that errors will mount up, the losing opposition gets possession and field position, and then works their way back into the game. There is however, the upside potential that the opposition is blown off the park, the attack grows in confidence for future games, and our for/against ratio improves.

That leaves us with our clear winner...option 3. Just keep playing good quality, attacking football. It keeps the pressure on the opposition, they stay gassed in defence which makes their attack less effective. They are more likely to revert to panic football with the ball. We are more likely to keep scoring and increase the lead. They are more likely to, at some point, throw in the towel and start arm-tackling.

Am I missing something obvious here?
Very eloquently put.

Can we get amiafish booked in for a meeting with Rick to discuss? When you lay it out as well as you have above, there is almost no chance he shoves that back in your face

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Northern Raider » July 9, 2019, 11:12 am

This is exactly where Bellamy and Melbourne Storm are successful. They stick to their task, particularly when its working. That's why they are such good front runners. They could turn an 18-0 lead into a 36-6 victory without doing anything spectacular. The flip side is they aren't as good at coming back from being down 18-0 but because of their discipline they are rarely in that position.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 9, 2019, 11:16 am

Northern Raider wrote:
July 9, 2019, 11:12 am
This is exactly where Bellamy and Melbourne Storm are successful. They stick to their task, particularly when its working. That's why they are such good front runners. They could turn an 18-0 lead into a 36-6 victory without doing anything spectacular. The flip side is they aren't as good at coming back from being down 18-0 but because of their discipline they are rarely in that position.
Agreed. It's almost impossible to beat the Storm if they're up at halftime.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Botman » July 9, 2019, 11:18 am

Northern Raider wrote:
July 9, 2019, 8:55 am
"We didn't have the squad last year to defend like we do this year."

Interesting comment this one. I can only think it directly references the lack of mobility in the middle from Boyd and Paulo along with Austin doing his own thing on the edge.
Yeah i dont think there is any doubt that was a DIRECT shot at Paulo, Boyd and Austin.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by amiafish » July 9, 2019, 11:55 am

Rickmando wrote:
July 9, 2019, 10:59 am
Very eloquently put.

Can we get amiafish booked in for a meeting with Rick to discuss? When you lay it out as well as you have above, there is almost no chance he shoves that back in your face
Haha, thank you. But I suspect this is a deeply held article of faith for Ricky that's unlikely to be up for revision.

I remember back at the start of 2017, he said something like "we're not going to be trying to blow teams off the park like we did last year...we need to look after possession to compete with the top teams".

It's a classic case of learning the wrong lesson (something we're all prone to doing). There was nothing wrong with our attack in 2016...in fact it was terrific and was one of the reasons we got to within a whisker of the GF (thanks again Edrick!). Rather, we simply had too many turnstiles in defence, and a general lack of commitment to treating defensive structures seriously.

But Ricky took the view (which he obviously still holds) that we need to neuter our attack to protect leads (rather than simply working on defensive structure/commitment to absorb errors in attack).

It's an exemplar of "weakening a strength to strengthen a weakness"...rarely a good idea.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 9, 2019, 11:59 am

Honestly, I don't think anyone has taken the decision to "neuter our attack", I just think our attack is a bit off the pace with the departure of Mick Crawley, who was a simply outstanding attacking coach. It's really largely coincidence IMO.

Having said that, I'm enjoying the first season we've concentrated mainly on defence so much more than our attacking years anyway, so long may then reign!
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by amiafish » July 9, 2019, 12:16 pm

The Rickman wrote:
July 9, 2019, 11:59 am
Honestly, I don't think anyone has taken the decision to "neuter our attack"
Agree. There's no general decision to limit our attack.

However, I was referring specifically to attacking strategy when holding a sizable lead. I think there's no question Ricky is coaching a very conservative approach when leading, as his comments last night confirm.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Billy Walker » July 11, 2019, 4:51 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
July 9, 2019, 11:12 am
This is exactly where Bellamy and Melbourne Storm are successful. They stick to their task, particularly when its working. That's why they are such good front runners. They could turn an 18-0 lead into a 36-6 victory without doing anything spectacular. The flip side is they aren't as good at coming back from being down 18-0 but because of their discipline they are rarely in that position.
Very true but I’d also add that Bellamy would be blowing up about the 6. It makes him look over the top at times but it really is that level of perfection that makes champion teams.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 11, 2019, 5:07 pm

Billy Walker wrote:
July 11, 2019, 4:51 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
July 9, 2019, 11:12 am
This is exactly where Bellamy and Melbourne Storm are successful. They stick to their task, particularly when its working. That's why they are such good front runners. They could turn an 18-0 lead into a 36-6 victory without doing anything spectacular. The flip side is they aren't as good at coming back from being down 18-0 but because of their discipline they are rarely in that position.
Very true but I’d also add that Bellamy would be blowing up about the 6. It makes him look over the top at times but it really is that level of perfection that makes champion teams.
Yeah, you are absolutely spot on, and it's a big reason why I was so pleased in the game against the tigers where we bundled the tigers winger over the sideline in the closing stages of the match even though we had it won. Those sorts of efforts are what confirmed in my mind the squad has turned the corner attitude wise, but those sorts of efforts were missing against the eels.
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by dubby » July 11, 2019, 5:42 pm

Ricky is great at NOT answering a direct question.

Plenty of words, no answers.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by dubby » July 11, 2019, 5:45 pm

The Rickman wrote:Winning close games. Is it attitude or skill? It wasn't attitude, the reason we were losing close games, the players were trying.

That was the most interesting comment for me. So is he saying the team wasn't skillful enough to win close games last year?
No, he's saying that the players love to run up points, but he wants them to NOT run up points.

So the players (imo) have no idea what to do when they're ahead.

So they lose. Why? They're listening to the coaches voice rather than piling on the points, which is their instinct.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by Seiffert82 » July 12, 2019, 2:49 am

To be fair, in the games we were up by plenty and then blown a good lead (Manly, Parramatta and Cronulla) it was more about the opposition playing like crap to start off with and then the opposition suddenly deciding to hold onto the ball and start playing football, while we threw possession away.

I think in those games we weren't really switching into a 'protect the lead' mentality. On the contrary, we continued to throw the ball around in ridiculous situations, gifting the opposition possession and field position.

Stuart is right to an extent - we have played some pretty **** dumb football when we've hit good leads. We haven't been putting the cue in the rack at all.

You can't continue to pile on the points if you refuse to hold onto the **** football or get to your 5th tackle kick.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 12, 2019, 6:57 am

Seiffert82 wrote:To be fair, in the games we were up by plenty and then blown a good lead (Manly, Parramatta and Cronulla) it was more about the opposition playing like crap to start off with and then the opposition suddenly deciding to hold onto the ball and start playing football, while we threw possession away.

I think in those games we weren't really switching into a 'protect the lead' mentality. On the contrary, we continued to throw the ball around in ridiculous situations, gifting the opposition possession and field position.

Stuart is right to an extent - we have played some pretty **** dumb football when we've hit good leads. We haven't been putting the cue in the rack at all.

You can't continue to pile on the points if you refuse to hold onto the **** football or get to your 5th tackle kick.
Yeah, I agree with you on this one, Seiff. We haven’t been losing our leads from putting the cue in the rack at all, in fact it’s quite the obvious... we get a good lead, completely lose our minds and start playing stupid football
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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by gergreg » July 12, 2019, 8:19 am

I think we are instructed and attempt to close out games but we just can't do it and then start to doubt ourselves. TBF there are only two sides in the comp who can do it in high pressure situations and it's no coincidence they are the 2 best sides.

I'm not saying Seiffert and Nickman are wrong because I think our teams natural instinct is to play a loose attacking style but we half **** it because Ricky's halftime speech "grind out a win or I'm kicking chairs" is in the back of their minds. The players are stuck between wanting to play the way they have for the previous 40 minutes (and season after season) and the grind.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by The Rickman » July 12, 2019, 9:23 am

gergreg wrote:
July 12, 2019, 8:19 am
I think we are instructed and attempt to close out games but we just can't do it and then start to doubt ourselves. TBF there are only two sides in the comp who can do it in high pressure situations and it's no coincidence they are the 2 best sides.

I'm not saying Seiffert and Nickman are wrong because I think our teams natural instinct is to play a loose attacking style but we half **** it because Ricky's halftime speech "grind out a win or I'm kicking chairs" is in the back of their minds. The players are stuck between wanting to play the way they have for the previous 40 minutes (and season after season) and the grind.

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Re: Canberra Raider coach Ricky Stuart on NRL 360

Post by dubby » July 14, 2019, 8:51 am

Maybe it's a little of both?

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