Williams or Sezer?

[Brew]

Sezer is a must next week even if Jack isn’t selected for Origin.
Sezer always lifts against the Bulldogs. Williams can’t sustain more than a month in the NRL. He can come in patches and look like a good fit for the team but as in previous times extended runs in first grade and he fades out.


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[Botman]

Hah, the bulldogs point is very good. If there is ONE game you have to play Sezer, its the dogs. I think 3 of his best 5 games have been against them.

[LP Raider]

Hah, the bulldogs point is very good. If there is ONE game you have to play Sezer, its the dogs. I think 3 of his best 5 games have been against them.

Wow, that's some stat.

[Botman]

Haha it was just a guess, but i feel like we've seen very little quality football from him but i feel like every time he's played the bulldogs he's given them the business

[LP Raider]

Haha it was just a guess, but i feel like we've seen very little quality football from him but i feel like every time he's played the bulldogs he's given them the business

You must have paid close attention to him whilst at the Titans.

[LP Raider]

I can only recall once at Belmore in "16", without doubt his best game for the Raiders.

Other than that you must be thinking of Austin when he went nuts for 10 minutes.

[Peter]

Sezer will be on the bench this week regardless, now that Hodgson is out. No way Havili can play 80 at 9.

[Botman]

Haha it was just a guess, but i feel like we've seen very little quality football from him but i feel like every time he's played the bulldogs he's given them the business

You must have paid close attention to him whilst at the Titans.

Na, i was speaking of him strictly at the Raiders. But per Rugby League Project he's 8-2 against them in his career.

[gerg]

Our defence has been garbage since the Broncos game. Williams needs a spell and Croker needs some assistance from the coaching staff.

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[Roger Kenworthy]

Sezer always had one of his few decent games for us last season vs the Dogs.

I am completely on board with rotating Williams and Sezer based on their career records vs opponents. Where it's a tie we can have an egg and spoon or sack race to see who gets the spot.

[RedRaider]

Sam should have taken the inside pass from Oldfield. It was above his head and he had to leap for it at full tilt, but still it should have been taken imo. The grubber kick into a Raiders player who had over run the play was poor and running into the posts on a kick chase was hilarious (See my rant last week when Papa was denied a try by the goal posts, why are they in a position which can affect play?). Having said that - Sam set up the try for Oldfield with a kick through the line which stays in goal long enough for the chasers to make it a try.

Sam made 23 tackles during the match including 3 memorable one on ones, 2 on Cooper and one on Baptiste. This placed him 5th on the list of top tacklers for the Raiders in the game. Almost twice as many as Jack who made 12. I note with interest that Sam will be given a 'try cause' by the 'anonymous' statisticians for the Granville break which led to a try and Sam was stepped. I would also ask why we only had one marker in that play. Granville is a good enough player to capitalize on a single marker and he did.

[Whitty]

...and running into the posts on a kick chase was hilarious (See my rant last week when Papa was denied a try by the goal posts, why are they in a position which can affect play?).

Do you think we should also get rid of them pesky sidelines which are also in positions to affect the play? I understand what you mean by them affecting play, but they have been there since 1908 in Australia and since around 1895 overall. Lets leave them where they are. If Sam cant get around the field without running into them, that's a problem him and Ricky should sort out, not change the layout of every footy field in Australia to suit.

[-PJ-]

Let's release Sam, and bring him back for the 4th time..

[edwahu]

Let's release Sam, and bring him back for the 4th time..

Only if George changes his name.

[woppadingo]

Ok so here is the thing. So now Williams is apparently the incumbent half at the Raiders. Whenever you see a half getting dropped at any club, is it because the backup playing reggies is playing awesomely? I say no. Almost all the time, a half is dropped because they play poorly.
I get why some people say Sezer doesn't deserve an opportunity, but really its got to do with the need to drop Williams.
If you want to try Hingano then fine, but Williams has shown he lacks the creativity and punch required to retain his spot in 1st grade.
Time for a change.

[RedRaider]

...and running into the posts on a kick chase was hilarious (See my rant last week when Papa was denied a try by the goal posts, why are they in a position which can affect play?).

Do you think we should also get rid of them pesky sidelines which are also in positions to affect the play? I understand what you mean by them affecting play, but they have been there since 1908 in Australia and since around 1895 overall. Lets leave them where they are. If Sam cant get around the field without running into them, that's a problem him and Ricky should sort out, not change the layout of every footy field in Australia to suit.

The goal posts stopped Papa scoring a try last week. If immovable objects affect the out come of games then imo, Yes, they should be moved behind the dead ball line. The side lines are the boundaries of where the game can be played. I've not seen a side line stop a player dead in his tracks like the goal posts did to Papa last week. This is now a full time professional sport. Gridiron in the USA moved them because they were interfering with play back in 1927. It then took decades before it was implemented in the NFL. The reasons are the same. The players should be allowed to determine the game not 2 large immovable posts.

[Makaveli]

Sezer a late exclusion for the mounties today hopefully that means Williams is out next week

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[-TW-]

More likely Sticks got the call about Wighton playing origin

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[Makaveli]

Touche didn't think of that

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[Azza]

Wighton is in, Sezer and Williams will be our halves combo next week, ace.

[BadnMean]

...and running into the posts on a kick chase was hilarious (See my rant last week when Papa was denied a try by the goal posts, why are they in a position which can affect play?).

Do you think we should also get rid of them pesky sidelines which are also in positions to affect the play? I understand what you mean by them affecting play, but they have been there since 1908 in Australia and since around 1895 overall. Lets leave them where they are. If Sam cant get around the field without running into them, that's a problem him and Ricky should sort out, not change the layout of every footy field in Australia to suit.

The goal posts stopped Papa scoring a try last week. If immovable objects affect the out come of games then imo, Yes, they should be moved behind the dead ball line. The side lines are the boundaries of where the game can be played. I've not seen a side line stop a player dead in his tracks like the goal posts did to Papa last week. This is now a full time professional sport. Gridiron in the USA moved them because they were interfering with play back in 1927. It then took decades before it was implemented in the NFL. The reasons are the same. The players should be allowed to determine the game not 2 large immovable posts.

Headline: "Goal posts cruel Raider's season"

We should get in that inanimate carbon rod as coach...

[yurithe1]

...and running into the posts on a kick chase was hilarious (See my rant last week when Papa was denied a try by the goal posts, why are they in a position which can affect play?).

Do you think we should also get rid of them pesky sidelines which are also in positions to affect the play? I understand what you mean by them affecting play, but they have been there since 1908 in Australia and since around 1895 overall. Lets leave them where they are. If Sam cant get around the field without running into them, that's a problem him and Ricky should sort out, not change the layout of every footy field in Australia to suit.

Yeah, and get that up you too, Meninga. (TIC). Oh, yeah, that's why the posts have padding on them now.

Anyway, I think Wighton has done enough to get picked for NSW. So, we'll see Williams and Sezer in the halves next week.

Yesterday's game was the second time we've seen Williams running around lost in broken field play when we needed a creative half. He does a great job as an organiser, but he's been exposed on the creative side. Sezer is going to have to take on that role against the Bulldogs and perhaps other opponents.

[RedRaider]

They said on ABC radio this afternoon that both Jack and Nic Cotric have been called to Sydney as part of the NSW SOO squad.

[zim]

A live look at Sam Williams heading up the Hume to Mt Pritchard

Poor Williams but I lol'd.

[Brew]

I can only recall once at Belmore in "16", without doubt his best game for the Raiders.

Other than that you must be thinking of Austin when he went nuts for 10 minutes.

Last year too for our first win of the season he killed it, Williams went off injured


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[amiafish]

Felt so strongly about this...registered on the forum just to make this post.

Sam Williams, by all accounts, is a terrific young man. He is however, a lamb among lions in the NRL.

Watching him toddle toward the line at a break-neck walking pace, turn like a dreadnought, and then inevitably shovel the ball out the back is a burden too heavy to bear for even the most magnanimous Raiders fan.

Watching his lips move in silent prayer as grown men run at him in defense is even worse.

One could be forgiven for thinking that his presence in the side (and in the NRL) is some form of cosmic joke. But then, we see him dribble the ball off the boot into a teammate standing a mere 3 inches in front of him, and then pole-axe himself on the goal-post chasing his own kick that (presumably) was deliberately aimed at the posts - was he surprised it was there? No, this is no joke, it is a veritable Greek tragedy.

Please Ricky, end his suffering, end our suffering...think of the children.

[simo]

Felt so strongly about this...registered on the forum just to make this post.

Sam Williams, by all accounts, is a terrific young man. He is however, a lamb among lions in the NRL.

Watching him toddle toward the line at a break-neck walking pace, turn like a dreadnought, and then inevitably shovel the ball out the back is a burden too heavy to bear for even the most magnanimous Raiders fan.

Watching his lips move in silent prayer as grown men run at him in defense is even worse.

One could be forgiven for thinking that his presence in the side (and in the NRL) is some form of cosmic joke. But then, we see him dribble the ball off the boot into a teammate standing a mere 3 inches in front of him, and then pole-axe himself on the goal-post chasing his own kick that (presumably) was deliberately aimed at the posts - was he surprised it was there? No, this is no joke, it is a veritable Greek tragedy.

Please Ricky, end his suffering, end our suffering...think of the children.

As accurate a first post as you will see

[afgtnk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

[FROG]

If there is one thing williams brings, it's that he somehow brings the best out of his halves partner. Some people asked if Williams and Sezer played together last year. I can tell you with 100% certainty that they did. What's more is that these were the games where Sezer actually played good for the club (until Williams got injured that is). Wighton too seems to be benefiting from the 'Williams effect'.

For the record, I'm not saying he should be kept in first grade for this reason, his commitment in defence or lack thereof is killing me just as much as everyone else, but i thought it was worth mentioning and hopefully it holds again this weekend and Sezer leads us to victory against the dogs!

[amiafish]

What's more is that these were the games where Sezer actually played good for the club (until Williams got injured that is). Wighton too seems to be benefiting from the 'Williams effect'.

Fair point.

But you need to factor in the opportunity cost incurred to pick up that "Williams effect".

You obviously lose the defensive starch that every other possible replacement would add compared to Sam.
You lose the running potency that every other possible replacement would add compared to Sam.
I have to believe that you'd be at least a wash on the passing game with any other replacement - Sam's service is generally very slow and his long left-to-right pass is a (pre-Ricky torpedo) 1980s style shovel...

The other thing to consider is that the "Williams effect" on Sezer and Wighton may not be contingent on the presence of Williams per se, but could be elicited by any "low expectations" half who is content to leave the creative stuff to his outside men (or his Number 9). Until you've tested that hypothesis, you can't be sure that you're not paying an exorbitant price to get good performances out of Sezer and Wighton.

[BadnMean]

Wighton has said he prefers playing with Sam- I think they played some junior footy together somehow (but they are a couple years apart, Jack may have been prodigal?).

It's a bit vicious on here saying Sam is scared of blokes running at him or not committed- that's not true. He goes in for the contact. He's just not a very big or effective defender. I think he might be over-revving/over-reading as a result to try and overcompensate for that which is why when he shoots out it can look good but those other times he's over thought it and is thinking about player X when player Y goes straight through the hole. Not good defence- but not necessarily someone who is copping out.

All Sezer has to come in and do is kick competently and defend - he can do the former, just doesn't do it consistently and he can certainly do the latter- and he'll have the starting spot over Sam when Jack returns.

[julian87]

Sezer needs to offer more than that this week with virtually no ball play from our 9 or 1 and Wighton out tbh.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Sezer needs to keep his errors down as well.

[Northern Raider]

If there is one thing williams brings, it's that he somehow brings the best out of his halves partner. Some people asked if Williams and Sezer played together last year. I can tell you with 100% certainty that they did. What's more is that these were the games where Sezer actually played good for the club (until Williams got injured that is). Wighton too seems to be benefiting from the 'Williams effect'.

For the record, I'm not saying he should be kept in first grade for this reason, his commitment in defence or lack thereof is killing me just as much as everyone else, but i thought it was worth mentioning and hopefully it holds again this weekend and Sezer leads us to victory against the dogs!

I used to know people who went out clubbing with their less attractive friends to make themselves appear better looking. This would be similar theory to the 'Williams effect'.

[LP Raider]

10 years later this is just another Herbert V McCrone debate.

Both should be moved on, I'd be happy enough with having Hingano as our backup next year on minimum wage.

Teams like Manly and Storm have 4th stringers better than these 2, it's rather embarrassing even debating it.