The Politics Thread 2019

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Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm

Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Green eyed Mick » May 16, 2019, 9:14 am

Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 9:58 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Nice bail out
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 10:46 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by dubby » May 16, 2019, 10:47 am

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater over "climate change".

We're told to believe that carbon dioxide (CO2) is our enemy , and that the sky will fall in if we continue to produce it. Carbon is not our enemy, in fact apart from oxygen (water), the human body is predominantly carbon.

We know that the invisible, odourless, weightless substance - carbon dioxide is produced by burning coal, one of Australia's greatest natural resources to produce cheap energy for our population.

Concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere is 400 parts per million. (0.04%)

3% of that is man made - (0.0012%)

Australia's contribution to man made CO2 is 1.3% of that. - (0.000000156%)

A 50% CO2 reduction by Australia would be take that figure to 0.000000078%

Even Australia going 100% renewable will not make any perceivable difference in affecting climate change. It is akin to raising sea levels by urinating in the ocean.

Are we willing to destroy our economy, kill free enterprise and exports through carbon taxes and increased electricity prices, and sign away Australia's sovereignty through foreign energy agreements to reduce our CO2 by 0.07 of a millionth of a percent?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 11:02 am

dubby wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:47 am
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater over "climate change".

We're told to believe that carbon dioxide (CO2) is our enemy , and that the sky will fall in if we continue to produce it. Carbon is not our enemy, in fact apart from oxygen (water), the human body is predominantly carbon.

We know that the invisible, odourless, weightless substance - carbon dioxide is produced by burning coal, one of Australia's greatest natural resources to produce cheap energy for our population.

Concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere is 400 parts per million. (0.04%)

3% of that is man made - (0.0012%)

Australia's contribution to man made CO2 is 1.3% of that. - (0.000000156%)

A 50% CO2 reduction by Australia would be take that figure to 0.000000078%

Even Australia going 100% renewable will not make any perceivable difference in affecting climate change. It is akin to raising sea levels by urinating in the ocean.

Are we willing to destroy our economy, kill free enterprise and exports through carbon taxes and increased electricity prices, and sign away Australia's sovereignty through foreign energy agreements to reduce our CO2 by 0.07 of a millionth of a percent?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Why would we be killing our exports by going 100% renewable, dubs? That doesn't make sense.

I work in the coal industry, my current quality of life absolutely depends on there being a coal export market for the next decade, and even I want to see Australia shifting towards renewables.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Green eyed Mick » May 16, 2019, 12:01 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:46 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
The link between carbon emissions and climate change was established decades ago and the countless studies since have only enhanced our knowledge on the subject.

If you want to 'debate' something that isn't up for debate, have at it but I have about as much patience and respect for climate deniers as I have for anti-vaxxers, which FTR is none.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 12:49 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:01 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:46 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
The link between carbon emissions and climate change was established decades ago and the countless studies since have only enhanced our knowledge on the subject.

If you want to 'debate' something that isn't up for debate, have at it but I have about as much patience and respect for climate deniers as I have for anti-vaxxers, which FTR is none.
LOL. I didn't deny any link. I even said direclty that it did contribute to climate change. I said it was difficult to quantify exactly how much man made emissions contributed to it overall. You somehow interpreted that as a denial of any link. Next time learn to read and comprehend before you engage in a conversation with the grown ups.
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The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 1:37 pm

Well, I just voted

And for the first time in my life I actually took both the Labor and LNP How to Vote cards, studied them both, filled out one set of voting slips, changed my mind and had to go back and ask for more

This election really has been tough

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 1:54 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 1:37 pm
Well, I just voted

And for the first time in my life I actually took both the Labor and LNP How to Vote cards, studied them both, filled out one set of voting slips, changed my mind and had to go back and ask for more

This election really has been tough
I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of decent independents in the electorate who champion local issues. I'm feeling federal pariliament will be a wash whoever gets in so may as well look after my own back yard.

Of course that also means my preferences may count so had to put a bit of thought into that. As it turned out I started with the more centred parties and worked my way down put the extremist at the bottom. Of course that meant the ALP and LNP were both very high in my preferences. I doubt my ballot paper would resemble anybody's How to Vote card.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Green eyed Mick » May 16, 2019, 2:28 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:49 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:01 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:46 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
The link between carbon emissions and climate change was established decades ago and the countless studies since have only enhanced our knowledge on the subject.

If you want to 'debate' something that isn't up for debate, have at it but I have about as much patience and respect for climate deniers as I have for anti-vaxxers, which FTR is none.
LOL. I didn't deny any link. I even said direclty that it did contribute to climate change. I said it was difficult to quantify exactly how much man made emissions contributed to it overall. You somehow interpreted that as a denial of any link. Next time learn to read and comprehend before you engage in a conversation with the grown ups.
It can and has been quantified to within an acceptable margin of error. What more do you want?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by papabear » May 16, 2019, 2:39 pm

Honestly, the responses towards dubby have been very disappointing.

He has put his argument out there.

A lot of people disagree with it. TBH I disagree the premise behind denying climate change.

However, the point about Australia's contribution towards CO2 emissions and what changing to 50% renewables will do for the atmosphere and climate change is a reasonable one that no one who seems to think its ok to just rip into dubby has put a reasonable response to yet.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 2:41 pm

papabear wrote:
May 16, 2019, 2:39 pm
Honestly, the responses towards dubby have been very disappointing.

He has put his argument out there.

A lot of people disagree with it. TBH I disagree the premise behind denying climate change.

However, the point about Australia's contribution towards CO2 emissions and what changing to 50% renewables will do for the atmosphere and climate change is a reasonable one that no one who seems to think its ok to just rip into dubby has put a reasonable response to yet.
What are you talking about?? Please tell me a single "unreasonable" response to dubby's opinion??

All he's presented are pseudo-facts and internet memes as his "proof"!! I've asked him a direct follow-up question to his latest statement and he's refused to respond.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by papabear » May 16, 2019, 2:42 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:01 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:46 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am
Northern Raider wrote:
May 15, 2019, 9:12 pm
Any chance you can formulate you own discussion or can you just post links?
I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
The link between carbon emissions and climate change was established decades ago and the countless studies since have only enhanced our knowledge on the subject.

If you want to 'debate' something that isn't up for debate, have at it but I have about as much patience and respect for climate deniers as I have for anti-vaxxers, which FTR is none.
the bolded is just mean spirited and if thats how we are going to talk to eachother on this thread.

Either put up your argument against his point, you can even post some of the countless studies that you have read that reinforce your position.

Otherwise if you are just full of ****, **** off or post nice.

As for your analogy personally I think it makes you stink of more **** then what was already on display in a mighty **** post.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 2:44 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 2:28 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:49 pm
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 12:01 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:46 am
Green eyed Mick wrote:
May 16, 2019, 9:14 am

I can do lots of things. One of which is avoiding pointless discussions with demonstrably stupid people.
Wowee... nice way to lose a debate with one simple post.
The link between carbon emissions and climate change was established decades ago and the countless studies since have only enhanced our knowledge on the subject.

If you want to 'debate' something that isn't up for debate, have at it but I have about as much patience and respect for climate deniers as I have for anti-vaxxers, which FTR is none.
LOL. I didn't deny any link. I even said direclty that it did contribute to climate change. I said it was difficult to quantify exactly how much man made emissions contributed to it overall. You somehow interpreted that as a denial of any link. Next time learn to read and comprehend before you engage in a conversation with the grown ups.
It can and has been quantified to within an acceptable margin of error. What more do you want?
I want you to stop being an overly sensitive prat and having a sook because somebody had a point of view that didn't match up to your own.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by zim » May 16, 2019, 2:56 pm

dubby wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:47 am
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater over "climate change".

We're told to believe that carbon dioxide (CO2) is our enemy , and that the sky will fall in if we continue to produce it. Carbon is not our enemy, in fact apart from oxygen (water), the human body is predominantly carbon.

We know that the invisible, odourless, weightless substance - carbon dioxide is produced by burning coal, one of Australia's greatest natural resources to produce cheap energy for our population.

Concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere is 400 parts per million. (0.04%)

3% of that is man made - (0.0012%)

Australia's contribution to man made CO2 is 1.3% of that. - (0.000000156%)

A 50% CO2 reduction by Australia would be take that figure to 0.000000078%

Even Australia going 100% renewable will not make any perceivable difference in affecting climate change. It is akin to raising sea levels by urinating in the ocean.

Are we willing to destroy our economy, kill free enterprise and exports through carbon taxes and increased electricity prices, and sign away Australia's sovereignty through foreign energy agreements to reduce our CO2 by 0.07 of a millionth of a percent?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Economics arguments aside the line I've bolded shows an embarrassing lack of understanding for someone trying to discredit the extreme majority of expert opinions. The effects molecules have on their surroundings are completely related to their composition. It's the difference between something being lethal and helpful. You need to drop that part of your argument if you're trying to convince someone.
As one common example carbon is also present in CO or carbon monoxide and I don't think we need to discuss how lethal that can be.

My own limited opinion on the economics side: I agree that we shouldn't destroy our economy. I don't want the Greens in power. But there's money to be made in renewables in a sustainable way.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 3:03 pm

I need to reiterate the fact that we will NOT destroy the coal mining industry or harm our exports in the slightest in this country if we were somehow going to magically switch to 100% renewables tomorrow.

The two are completely separate issues, in fact we burn the WORST quality coal in Australia and export the "good stuff" overseas, so it only makes sense to me that we move towards renewables sooner rather than later. And the whole argument that our contribution doesn't matter on a world scale doesn't wash with me at all. If that's the case why do I even bother recycling and why don't I just throw my rubbish on the footpath??
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Manbush » May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm

T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:35 pm
Manbush wrote:With the outrage over Folaus comments I’m surprised people are happy to vote for someone who shares identical beliefs and less likely to end religious privilege to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom.
Please show evidence of that.


Sharing the beliefs of another Pentecostal whose beliefs include a literal fire and brimstone hell, his refusal to answer a simple yes or no question.

Being a Pentecostal I’m also curious as to his views on end times, it’s popular amongst them to be looking forward to it and believing it’s going to happen soon which would impact on governing.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm

zim wrote:
May 16, 2019, 2:56 pm
dubby wrote:
May 16, 2019, 10:47 am
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater over "climate change".

We're told to believe that carbon dioxide (CO2) is our enemy , and that the sky will fall in if we continue to produce it. Carbon is not our enemy, in fact apart from oxygen (water), the human body is predominantly carbon.

We know that the invisible, odourless, weightless substance - carbon dioxide is produced by burning coal, one of Australia's greatest natural resources to produce cheap energy for our population.

Concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere is 400 parts per million. (0.04%)

3% of that is man made - (0.0012%)

Australia's contribution to man made CO2 is 1.3% of that. - (0.000000156%)

A 50% CO2 reduction by Australia would be take that figure to 0.000000078%

Even Australia going 100% renewable will not make any perceivable difference in affecting climate change. It is akin to raising sea levels by urinating in the ocean.

Are we willing to destroy our economy, kill free enterprise and exports through carbon taxes and increased electricity prices, and sign away Australia's sovereignty through foreign energy agreements to reduce our CO2 by 0.07 of a millionth of a percent?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Economics arguments aside the line I've bolded shows an embarrassing lack of understanding for someone trying to discredit the extreme majority of expert opinions. The effects molecules have on their surroundings are completely related to their composition. It's the difference between something being lethal and helpful. You need to drop that part of your argument if you're trying to convince someone.
As one common example carbon is also present in CO or carbon monoxide and I don't think we need to discuss how lethal that can be.

My own limited opinion on the economics side: I agree that we shouldn't destroy our economy. I don't want the Greens in power. But there's money to be made in renewables in a sustainable way.
Agree with Zim. Dubby's post may have been a reasonable topic for discussion but prefacing it with a sarcastic comment does not inspire rational debate.

I made comment earlier that I'm less worried about Australia's impact on CO2 levels and it's affect on climate change. I am far more concerned about the amount of **** we pump into the atmosphere. If that continues we'll probably be victims of toxic air long before any rising sea levels become a major problem. Lets not forget the finite nature of fossil fuels as well. We need to invest in renewables to for both sustainable energy consumption and to breath clean air.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by papabear » May 16, 2019, 3:21 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm
Agree with Zim. Dubby's post may have been a reasonable topic for discussion but prefacing it with a sarcastic comment does not inspire rational debate.

I made comment earlier that I'm less worried about Australia's impact on CO2 levels and it's affect on climate change. I am far more concerned about the amount of **** we pump into the atmosphere. If that continues we'll probably be victims of toxic air long before any rising sea levels become a major problem. Lets not forget the finite nature of fossil fuels as well. We need to invest in renewables to for both sustainable energy consumption and to breath clean air.
Regardless of the sarcastic comment at the start the point of his post was pretty clear from the body of it.

TBH I agree with your point regarding pumping crap into the air ala China and the finite nature of non renewable sources of energy and these arguments to me are more convincing in terms of an action required for our country then climate change which requires if anything a more global response from the big polluters.

That said, both majors are making the argument regarding what percentage of our energy will be sourced from renewables based on climate change (which is where dubby is arguing) which to be honest doesn't appear to have a valid argument (or counter argument) posted on this site by the people who are pushing so hard for it. Not to say it doesnt exist, I am just waiting to hear it instead of snide bull **** comments coming from individuals who should know better.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by papabear » May 16, 2019, 3:23 pm

Manbush wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm
T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:35 pm
Manbush wrote:With the outrage over Folaus comments I’m surprised people are happy to vote for someone who shares identical beliefs and less likely to end religious privilege to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom.
Please show evidence of that.


Sharing the beliefs of another Pentecostal whose beliefs include a literal fire and brimstone hell, his refusal to answer a simple yes or no question.

Being a Pentecostal I’m also curious as to his views on end times, it’s popular amongst them to be looking forward to it and believing it’s going to happen soon which would impact on governing.
honestly i think it is beneath either party to bring in peoples personal beliefs on stuff.

Whether you want to criticize bill for not believing in hell or whatever morrison believes, eitherway I think your notion that scomo is going to govern on a bias towards an incoming end times is full of ****.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 3:24 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:03 pm
I need to reiterate the fact that we will NOT destroy the coal mining industry or harm our exports in the slightest in this country if we were somehow going to magically switch to 100% renewables tomorrow.

The two are completely separate issues, in fact we burn the WORST quality coal in Australia and export the "good stuff" overseas, so it only makes sense to me that we move towards renewables sooner rather than later. And the whole argument that our contribution doesn't matter on a world scale doesn't wash with me at all. If that's the case why do I even bother recycling and why don't I just throw my rubbish on the footpath??
Would be a topic you know more about than me but isn't the coal Adani want to pull out of the Galilee Basin better grade than what they are currently using in India? That would mean allowing them to use it would actually reduce their carbon emissions. Also my understanding is its also fairly low grade coal by our own standards (i.e. Bowen Basin and other Galilee Basin coal seams).
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 3:30 pm

papabear wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:21 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm
Agree with Zim. Dubby's post may have been a reasonable topic for discussion but prefacing it with a sarcastic comment does not inspire rational debate.

I made comment earlier that I'm less worried about Australia's impact on CO2 levels and it's affect on climate change. I am far more concerned about the amount of **** we pump into the atmosphere. If that continues we'll probably be victims of toxic air long before any rising sea levels become a major problem. Lets not forget the finite nature of fossil fuels as well. We need to invest in renewables to for both sustainable energy consumption and to breath clean air.
Regardless of the sarcastic comment at the start the point of his post was pretty clear from the body of it.

TBH I agree with your point regarding pumping crap into the air ala China and the finite nature of non renewable sources of energy and these arguments to me are more convincing in terms of an action required for our country then climate change which requires if anything a more global response from the big polluters.

That said, both majors are making the argument regarding what percentage of our energy will be sourced from renewables based on climate change (which is where dubby is arguing) which to be honest doesn't appear to have a valid argument (or counter argument) posted on this site by the people who are pushing so hard for it. Not to say it doesnt exist, I am just waiting to hear it instead of snide bull **** comments coming from individuals who should know better.
Thats the issue. Start with a snide remark you will receive those back as a natural reaction. The detail of his post gets losts in a haze of agitation by the reader. TBH after I read that opening paragraph I lost interest in the reading the rest of his post. He immediately devalued his position by taking that approach.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 3:54 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:24 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:03 pm
I need to reiterate the fact that we will NOT destroy the coal mining industry or harm our exports in the slightest in this country if we were somehow going to magically switch to 100% renewables tomorrow.

The two are completely separate issues, in fact we burn the WORST quality coal in Australia and export the "good stuff" overseas, so it only makes sense to me that we move towards renewables sooner rather than later. And the whole argument that our contribution doesn't matter on a world scale doesn't wash with me at all. If that's the case why do I even bother recycling and why don't I just throw my rubbish on the footpath??
Would be a topic you know more about than me but isn't the coal Adani want to pull out of the Galilee Basin better grade than what they are currently using in India? That would mean allowing them to use it would actually reduce their carbon emissions. Also my understanding is its also fairly low grade coal by our own standards (i.e. Bowen Basin and other Galilee Basin coal seams).
Yes, you're spot on. Adani's coal in the Galilee basin is quite poor by our export thermal standards, HOWEVER it is still superior than most Indian coal, and it would be better for the environment in general if they burned their Galilee coal over domestic stuff.

Having said that, there are far superior coals around, but Adani's aim is to dig this stuff up and essentially sell it to themselves, so I can understand their reasoning.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 4:05 pm

The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:54 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:24 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:03 pm
I need to reiterate the fact that we will NOT destroy the coal mining industry or harm our exports in the slightest in this country if we were somehow going to magically switch to 100% renewables tomorrow.

The two are completely separate issues, in fact we burn the WORST quality coal in Australia and export the "good stuff" overseas, so it only makes sense to me that we move towards renewables sooner rather than later. And the whole argument that our contribution doesn't matter on a world scale doesn't wash with me at all. If that's the case why do I even bother recycling and why don't I just throw my rubbish on the footpath??
Would be a topic you know more about than me but isn't the coal Adani want to pull out of the Galilee Basin better grade than what they are currently using in India? That would mean allowing them to use it would actually reduce their carbon emissions. Also my understanding is its also fairly low grade coal by our own standards (i.e. Bowen Basin and other Galilee Basin coal seams).
Yes, you're spot on. Adani's coal in the Galilee basin is quite poor by our export thermal standards, HOWEVER it is still superior than most Indian coal, and it would be better for the environment in general if they burned their Galilee coal over domestic stuff.

Having said that, there are far superior coals around, but Adani's aim is to dig this stuff up and essentially sell it to themselves, so I can understand their reasoning.
Thought that was the case. I've been involved with the coal mining companies the past (administrative more than operational) so my understanding is anecdotal from conversations. The gist was that we were happy for them to start mining that area because none of the local companies would bother with it. Quality of product did not justify cost of investment for infrastructure and ongoing operation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 4:14 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 4:05 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:54 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:24 pm
The Rickman wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:03 pm
I need to reiterate the fact that we will NOT destroy the coal mining industry or harm our exports in the slightest in this country if we were somehow going to magically switch to 100% renewables tomorrow.

The two are completely separate issues, in fact we burn the WORST quality coal in Australia and export the "good stuff" overseas, so it only makes sense to me that we move towards renewables sooner rather than later. And the whole argument that our contribution doesn't matter on a world scale doesn't wash with me at all. If that's the case why do I even bother recycling and why don't I just throw my rubbish on the footpath??
Would be a topic you know more about than me but isn't the coal Adani want to pull out of the Galilee Basin better grade than what they are currently using in India? That would mean allowing them to use it would actually reduce their carbon emissions. Also my understanding is its also fairly low grade coal by our own standards (i.e. Bowen Basin and other Galilee Basin coal seams).
Yes, you're spot on. Adani's coal in the Galilee basin is quite poor by our export thermal standards, HOWEVER it is still superior than most Indian coal, and it would be better for the environment in general if they burned their Galilee coal over domestic stuff.

Having said that, there are far superior coals around, but Adani's aim is to dig this stuff up and essentially sell it to themselves, so I can understand their reasoning.
Thought that was the case. I've been involved with the coal mining companies the past (administrative more than operational) so my understanding is anecdotal from conversations. The gist was that we were happy for them to start mining that area because none of the local companies would bother with it. Quality of product did not justify cost of investment for infrasture and ongoing operation.
There are plenty of companies hoping the Galilee basin opens up and that Adani wears the cost of setting up the vital infrastructure so they can get their own operations off the ground.

The Galilee Basin has a LOT of coal, that's what it has going for it, but its quality is nowhere near as good as the Bowen Basin or even the Hunter/Gunnedah regions (and Frankly, the quality of Adani's Carmichael deposit is much worse than Adani themselves even think, but that's a different story). And without any infrastructure like power/water/rail I didn't think we'd ever see it opened up in our lifetime. But now we have Adani.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Manbush » May 16, 2019, 4:16 pm

papabear wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:23 pm
Manbush wrote:
May 16, 2019, 3:15 pm
T_R wrote:
May 15, 2019, 7:35 pm
Manbush wrote:With the outrage over Folaus comments I’m surprised people are happy to vote for someone who shares identical beliefs and less likely to end religious privilege to discriminate under the guise of religious freedom.
Please show evidence of that.


Sharing the beliefs of another Pentecostal whose beliefs include a literal fire and brimstone hell, his refusal to answer a simple yes or no question.

Being a Pentecostal I’m also curious as to his views on end times, it’s popular amongst them to be looking forward to it and believing it’s going to happen soon which would impact on governing.
honestly i think it is beneath either party to bring in peoples personal beliefs on stuff.

Whether you want to criticize bill for not believing in hell or whatever morrison believes, eitherway I think your notion that scomo is going to govern on a bias towards an incoming end times is full of ****.
Beliefs inform actions though so certain beliefs are very relevant.

Take Trump bowing to the evangelicals with Israel because to them it’s part of end times prophecy.

Also take climate change denial, I know correlation does not equal causation but I don’t think it’s a coincidence it’s generally the domain of the more religious.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by The Rickman » May 16, 2019, 4:17 pm

Hahaha I love how we're trying to have a decent discussion about politics and Manbush is just rambling about absolute garbage.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by T_R » May 16, 2019, 4:29 pm

I've heard Morrison come out and say directly that he doesn't believe gay people go to hell.

There's nothing equivocal about that, no matter how much Manbush wants to rave.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Sterlk » May 16, 2019, 5:56 pm

"Decent discussion about politics"?

This is 2019, and nobody here has a time machine.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 6:00 pm

Sterlk wrote:
May 16, 2019, 5:56 pm
"Decent discussion about politics"?

This is 2019, and nobody here has a time machine.
Sterlk wins
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Manbush » May 16, 2019, 6:02 pm

T_R wrote:
May 16, 2019, 4:29 pm
I've heard Morrison come out and say directly that he doesn't believe gay people go to hell.

There's nothing equivocal about that, no matter how much Manbush wants to rave.
Hats off to him then, don’t know why he couldn’t have said as much when he was asked.

I’m just seeing religion play a major role in the USA politics and really don’t want it expanding its already strong influence here, abortion laws, euthanasia, chaplaincy program, public school funding versus private school, religious privilege to discriminate, even the correlation with climate change, the religious rights influence over the LNP is just too strong for me to consider them.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by T_R » May 16, 2019, 6:27 pm

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
May 16, 2019, 4:29 pm
I've heard Morrison come out and say directly that he doesn't believe gay people go to hell.

There's nothing equivocal about that, no matter how much Manbush wants to rave.
Hats off to him then, don’t know why he couldn’t have said as much when he was asked.

I’m just seeing religion play a major role in the USA politics and really don’t want it expanding its already strong influence here, abortion laws, euthanasia, chaplaincy program, public school funding versus private school, religious privilege to discriminate, even the correlation with climate change, the religious rights influence over the LNP is just too strong for me to consider them.
And the massive control the Catholic dominated unions have over the ALP is OK with you?

SDA influence is why we had Penny Wong opposed to SSM a few years back ... while the LNP, which you think is under religious control, got it passed.

I think you are being a little inconsistent.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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The Politics Thread 2019

Post by gangrenous » May 16, 2019, 6:33 pm

papabear wrote:waiting to hear it instead of snide bull **** comments coming from individuals who should know better.
Below is what I have written recently in the Climate Change thread. Nickman commented that it actually had an impact on his opinion, which reflected why it’s worth the time discussing and debating with people like Nickman because he actually engages with your response even if he disagrees you.
gangrenous wrote: Do we need other countries to help - absolutely!

Are we an insignificant part of the problem? Absolutely not. 300 countries and we’re over 1% of the total, so we’re at least triple the average per country. Plus if I recall correctly we’re the absolute worst in the world per capita.

We have benefitted from the advantages of being a polluting developed nation for a long time. It’s time we at the very least pulled our heads in on a per capita basis, and ideally took a leading stance in this problem. It absolutely is “our” problem, and it defies all logic to me why people think Chinese people should be finding a way to live on a quarter of our emissions per capita because they happen to be in the one country. The only thing that makes it easier is that when they change laws and behaviour their cumulative effect is much bigger. But there is absolutely no fairness in the large countries being the only ones needing to tighten their belts.

And you know what? It might just make us some cash if we’re the ones who can crack the problem and license the technology. But yeah yeah, it’s not as certain as the cash we get from watching the planet burn. I’m sure that won’t impact the economy hey Liberals?
One key point I’d like to emphasise further is that everyone in the world is facing the same problem. If we’re clever enough to find a good renewable resource/storage energy solution, it won’t be used just to remove our emissions and leave everyone else mucking around with coal.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2019

Post by Northern Raider » May 16, 2019, 7:43 pm

What are people's current views on nuclear energy? Outside of isolated disasters such as Chernobyl and Fukushima are we in a better position to create safer, cleaner energy with it? Can measures be taken to ensure disasters like those don't reoccur?
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