Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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This was how it was always going to go down
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I'm OK with Cersei being dead, but not Jaime. Ayre seems to be the only living soul.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Indeed. One article I read put it beautifully. It's like they new the ending and have been writing the story backwards.The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Well he decided what's happening in the TV show.The Rickman wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 11:05 pm Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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Dany is mad. Jon must stop her and he will. And this will be the best end.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I'm good with that episode with the exception of the death of the Lannisters. After 8 seasons of waiting to see Cersei die, I feel ripped off. Particularly after the little brother prophecy.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Oh no... they are both going to die with Jon stopping the finally revealed evil Dany. So Sansa takes over. Now I'm finally as obsessed as the rest of you about the outcome!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I’ve heard the actor who played Barristan Selmy said in an interview that GRRM has finished the 6th and 7th book, but agreed to not release them until after the show finished, but this was the ending he had in mind.The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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Interesting if true. I’m just not sure how he would know that info
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Yep, this is the right end point but how they got there will be very different in the booksThe Rickman wrote: ↑May 13, 2019, 11:05 pm Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Yeah, the storylines the last few seasons are pretty bad, it’s almost like George-RR-Martin gave them the main points (Jon being a Targaryen, Dany burning King’s Landing) and left D&D to their own devices with getting there.
Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered. And unlike people like GE (who has obviously never read the books) thinks, ASOAIF never has been and never was supposed to be about a pure “good vs evil” battle, every character was always supposed to have an element of grey about them.
If this final episode boils down to Jon and the Starks (good) vs Dany and the Unsullied/Dothraki (evil), then that’s a pretty disappointing conclusion to an epic tale IMO
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Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered. And unlike people like GE (who has obviously never read the books) thinks, ASOAIF never has been and never was supposed to be about a pure “good vs evil” battle, every character was always supposed to have an element of grey about them.
If this final episode boils down to Jon and the Starks (good) vs Dany and the Unsullied/Dothraki (evil), then that’s a pretty disappointing conclusion to an epic tale IMO
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
My thoughts were that it was the idea of fear that caused her to snap. She realised she’d never be secure as queen if the people don’t fear her. She knew they’d never love her, because in her mind they loved Jon more. All season she’s been losing friends, family and loved ones, and I think she’s been feeling like she’s losing power, and in previous seasons she’s shown to make emotional, snap decisions to enforce her power.The Rickman wrote:Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered.
I haven’t read the books, that’s why I really enjoy your insight and thoughts. I don’t see it as a Good vs Evil fight, but one about nature vs nurture. I’m hoping Jon wins, uses Dany to show the world how this obsession for the throne effs up even those with the best intentions, destroys it, and democracy prevails.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I wouldn’t read too much into that if I were you. Apparently Ian MnIlhenney was furious that they re-wrote his character and killed him off (he didn’t die in the books and they were still very much within book territory when they offed him) and he begged the writers to reconsider.Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:I’ve heard the actor who played Barristan Selmy said in an interview that GRRM has finished the 6th and 7th book, but agreed to not release them until after the show finished, but this was the ending he had in mind.The Rickman wrote:Make no mistake about it, the show has diverged pretty seriously from the books since they overtook them, but this was absolutely George RR Martin’s ending
This was how it was always going to go down
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Interesting if true. I’m just not sure how he would know that info
Doesn’t seem like a man who’s had all you can eat to me.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I believe that she snapped well before that final act of burning the city. It was protrayed as such with her demeanor following Missandei's execution.Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 9:24 amMy thoughts were that it was the idea of fear that caused her to snap. She realised she’d never be secure as queen if the people don’t fear her. She knew they’d never love her, because in her mind they loved Jon more. All season she’s been losing friends, family and loved ones, and I think she’s been feeling like she’s losing power, and in previous seasons she’s shown to make emotional, snap decisions to enforce her power.The Rickman wrote:Like you, I’m pretty disappointed with how Dany finally snapped, there was literally no reason for her to do that after the city had surrendered.
I haven’t read the books, that’s why I really enjoy your insight and thoughts. I don’t see it as a Good vs Evil fight, but one about nature vs nurture. I’m hoping Jon wins, uses Dany to show the world how this obsession for the throne effs up even those with the best intentions, destroys it, and democracy prevails.
I was a little disappointed with how easily Drogon took out the Iron Fleet, Golden Company and the battery of scorpions around Kings Landing. We've seen previously how effective these weapons were against dragons and this time round they may as well have been potato guns. Golden Company was a complete waste of time as well. Why even bother introducing them?
I guess what it displayed was the true power of dragons, particularly when wielded by a ruthless leader. It established how the Targaryens held rule for so long without challenge.
Very disappointed in how Cersei went down. A wasteful demise for one the series most critical and best characters. On the flip side I loved how Qyburn was taken out by the monster he created.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ME!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
So much of it didn't work. I can't think of too many scenes that left me satisfied. Cleganebowl was the exception.The Rickman wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 10:30 am There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I just remembered this and it got lost in the shuffle a little bit, but the final Jamie-Tyrion scene was excellent, and really well done by both actors. That hit me right in the feels
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
So I just read this on Reddit and it explains my Gendry theory/legitimisation a bit better. This post was in response to someone saying Bran was the next in line for the Iron Throne behind Jon Snow and Daenerys...
"It doesn’t work quite like that. Jon derives his claim from his descent from Aegon the Conqueror... all rulers (except Cersei*) have relied upon that lineage to justify their claims to the throne. Jon is the last of Aegon the Conqueror’s male bloodline: an unbroken line of father to son successions.
Once Jon is gone, that’s it: The Targaryen family will be “extinct in the male line”, and the claim must be based on female descendants of Aegon the Conqueror, as close to the most recent heir of the male line possible. This was how Robert Baratheon claimed the throne: his grandmother (or great grandmother, I forget which) was a Targaryen. This gave him the best claim to the throne at the time (outside of Viserys and Dany who were in exile, and Jon whose parentage was secret).
Tl;dr - After the extinction of the Targaryen male line, the Baratheon dynasty is next in line, the first succession based on descent from AtC via a woman. This means that after Jon and Dany, Gendry is the next in line for the throne.
*Cersei claimed power due to, basically, right of conquest."
"It doesn’t work quite like that. Jon derives his claim from his descent from Aegon the Conqueror... all rulers (except Cersei*) have relied upon that lineage to justify their claims to the throne. Jon is the last of Aegon the Conqueror’s male bloodline: an unbroken line of father to son successions.
Once Jon is gone, that’s it: The Targaryen family will be “extinct in the male line”, and the claim must be based on female descendants of Aegon the Conqueror, as close to the most recent heir of the male line possible. This was how Robert Baratheon claimed the throne: his grandmother (or great grandmother, I forget which) was a Targaryen. This gave him the best claim to the throne at the time (outside of Viserys and Dany who were in exile, and Jon whose parentage was secret).
Tl;dr - After the extinction of the Targaryen male line, the Baratheon dynasty is next in line, the first succession based on descent from AtC via a woman. This means that after Jon and Dany, Gendry is the next in line for the throne.
*Cersei claimed power due to, basically, right of conquest."
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Something else that just hit me would be how devastated Jon would be feeling. Imagine going through that epic battle of Winterfell to save the living, only for your ally to go and wipe out a million people in Kings Landing. What was the point?
On the other hand, if he did anything, he would probably have suffered the same fate. So there wasn't much else he could have done.
On the one hand, Varys was caught committing treason, and was being punished. I kind of relate that back to S01E01 when Ned killed that guy for leaving the Wall. So in that way, I think him hanging around and watching Varys getting punished was fitting.The Rickman wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 10:30 am There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
On the other hand, if he did anything, he would probably have suffered the same fate. So there wasn't much else he could have done.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Yeah, that was lump in the throat stuff. We knew at that point they would not be seeing each other again and Jaime was doomed.PigRickman wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 12:30 pm I just remembered this and it got lost in the shuffle a little bit, but the final Jamie-Tyrion scene was excellent, and really well done by both actors. That hit me right in the feels
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I'm with Fui. Varys was found guilty of treason based on the unquestioned testimony of Tyrion and quite possibly Jon himself. Varys didn't claim innocence either. Jon has overseen a number of executions for treason/mutiny. Lets not forget the hanging of Alliser Thorne, Olly et al for the mutiny at Castle Black. Since then he went soft on capital punishment because he needed every man alive in the battle against the dead. That war has come an gone so that particular philosophy is out the window.Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 1:02 pm Something else that just hit me would be how devastated Jon would be feeling. Imagine going through that epic battle of Winterfell to save the living, only for your ally to go and wipe out a million people in Kings Landing. What was the point?
On the one hand, Varys was caught committing treason, and was being punished. I kind of relate that back to S01E01 when Ned killed that guy for leaving the Wall. So in that way, I think him hanging around and watching Varys getting punished was fitting.The Rickman wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 10:30 am There was plenty that seemed out of place in that episode for me. Jon Snow just standing there while Varys got burned seems totally out of character as well.
On the other hand, if he did anything, he would probably have suffered the same fate. So there wasn't much else he could have done.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
I'm gobsmacked at how much people read into this.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
No one who saw Game of Thrones would say that.dubby wrote: ↑May 14, 2019, 5:22 pm I'm gobsmacked at how much people read into this.
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Let's get him!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Watched every episode. Read every book.
Books were meh. TV show very good.
I'm still a little surprised.
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Books were meh. TV show very good.
I'm still a little surprised.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Well that’s a massive dubby by the great man himself!dubby wrote:Watched every episode. Read every book.
Books were meh. TV show very good.
I'm still a little surprised.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
[Emoji unknown]
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
What did you find meh about the books, Dubs?
Genuinely curious?
Genuinely curious?
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Yeah, I don’t know anybody who has read the books who would a) describe them as *checks notes* meh or 2) would claim the show is even remotely better, particularly since it’s gone past the end of the books!
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Books better than the series IMO. Soooo much more happening. By comparison the series feels like the truncated version. Particularly the past couple of seasons where they have trodden their own path.
The books aren't without flaws (what is?) but still a fantastic read.
The books aren't without flaws (what is?) but still a fantastic read.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
OK so I've been away for a month and am just catching up, downloading S8 atm Now I'm discouraged - it sounds like it's rubbish? Even season 7 started to go off the boil a bit.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Na mate it's actually really good, but we all have ridiculously high expectations for it. No one was ever going to be completely satisfied. Well worth a look.Azza wrote:OK so I've been away for a month and am just catching up, downloading S8 atm Now I'm discouraged - it sounds like it's rubbish? Even season 7 started to go off the boil a bit.
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Ok thanks. I guess it's testament to what a good writer Martin is - the last 2 seasons without his detailed novels to base it off have definitely seemed to drop off, good to know it's not horrible though.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
That's pretty accurate.Northern Raider wrote:Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
Except for the first two episodes which were storytelling, and people botched that there was no action.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
Thought they were rather long winded and boring. So many characters, plots it became rather tedious and a chore to read.PigRickman wrote:What did you find meh about the books, Dubs?
Genuinely curious?
I'm not bagging them. Just not something I enjoyed overall.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 *Spoilers*
It is terrible, because that’s not what Game of Thrones is supposed to be.Northern Raider wrote:Nah, its not terrible. I'd best describe it as production values having overtaken story telling. Its become more hollywood style than the intriguing plot twists.
I had no real complaints on first two eps, but the latest three the writing is beyond lazy.