John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

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gergreg
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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by gergreg » January 11, 2019, 10:36 pm

greeneyed wrote:Got to say, I loved the way Gavin Miller played at lock... even though he was a nemesis.
Yes, great player. Won a Rothmans medal or two from memory. Wasn't he a Goulburn lad?

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by gergreg » January 11, 2019, 10:38 pm

BadnMean wrote:
MrPosh wrote:
January 11, 2019, 7:43 pm
edwahu wrote:
January 11, 2019, 11:22 am
Matt wrote:
January 11, 2019, 10:03 am
There is a reason he is considered a backrower/ centre. Which in the NRL leads me to believe that he is more likely to be successful on the edge.
Maybe he is a dogged tough nut that will make it work.
However, as we already know, we have 4 international backrowers, and while is generally accepted that Papa will move to prop, one of the other 3 has to go to lock. If Bateman was 1st crack, have at it.
FWIW, he is the smallest of the 4 we have, and I suspect he will be giving away anywhere from 5-30kgs (Lolo and Surgess are 120-125kgs) to his opponent every week at lock.
Yeah, the reason is because he had an english legend in front of him at lock. When that player was injured or moved to cover an injury it appears he played lock.

He would be 6kgs heavier and 3kgs lighter than the grand final locks, so his size isn't that big of an issue. He is 98kgs, not 88.
He's a better player than O'Loughlin, in my opinion.

However, O'Loughlin is (currently) the last in the line of the English Loose Forward - who takes the role of the third pivot. You can go back through the Farrell, Sculthorpe and Hanley from my lifetime who were greats of the game and back to Mal Reilly and, I'm sure, beyond for other examples.

We've now followed the Australian game in having the full back as the extra playmaker and using the Loose Forward, or Lock, as just another middle forward.

Bateman is better for that role than O'Loughlin, and although he has good hands, he's not the playmaker that O'Loughlin is and doesn't offer the extra dimension he brings.

I suspect he'll be in the middle to shore up the defence behind the ruck in the middle - where there have been plenty of gaps for the last couple of years. And don't worry about his size - you'd take a Pit Bull over a St Bernard in a fight.
Ok, valuable insight.

Anyone who's watched a few games has probably seen us slow up behind the ruck so he could help there.

Just me- I can't see how we stop a 3 Burgii or 2 big bopper roll down the middle with our current pack even if Papalli turns into a Kangaroo prop. Maybe this kid hits and stops 'em, who knows.
Agreed, while it seems nice to lose two lumbering forwards like Paulo and Boyd those sorts of players could quite possibly be our kryptonite.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by greeneyed » January 11, 2019, 11:03 pm

gergreg wrote:
January 11, 2019, 10:36 pm
greeneyed wrote:Got to say, I loved the way Gavin Miller played at lock... even though he was a nemesis.
Yes, great player. Won a Rothmans medal or two from memory. Wasn't he a Goulburn lad?

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Yes, the stand at Goulburn Arena is named The Gavin Miller Stand. I think he moved back to Goulburn.
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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by julian87 » January 12, 2019, 1:58 am

Just on Matt’s post about Bateman. I think being smaller actually makes you more suited to the middle than the edge these days. If you’re not a big athletic body at second row you’re at a huge, huge disadvantage straight away. In the middle so much more of it is up to the individual rather than the team’s structure. It’s why blokes like Radley and Murray are up the guys.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 » January 12, 2019, 7:58 am

He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 » January 12, 2019, 8:00 am

Yeah, I want to see Whitehead and Papa stay on the edge. They are world class weapons attacking the opposition halves.

Tapine is the question mark for me. I think he's better suited to the middle.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by RTW » January 12, 2019, 8:48 am

Tapines is a powerful runner of the football and a player you love sending at opposition halves. As a result he makes the opposition question themselves. However his defensive decision making on the edge is suspect.

The benefit of playing him in the middle is that he attracts a lot of defenders and therefore can create room on the edges and doesn’t have to make as many decisions in defence.




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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Wiki Special » January 12, 2019, 9:06 am

RTW wrote:
January 12, 2019, 8:48 am
Tapines is a powerful runner of the football and a player you love sending at opposition halves. As a result he makes the opposition question themselves. However his defensive decision making on the edge is suspect.

The benefit of playing him in the middle is that he attracts a lot of defenders and therefore can create room on the edges and doesn’t have to make as many decisions in defence.




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Agree.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by -PJ- » January 12, 2019, 9:12 am

Our backrow is outstanding...

Is there another club out there with 3 internationals in the backrow ?

Maybe there is, but they all blow...
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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by LimeGreenMachine » January 12, 2019, 9:16 am

Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 » January 12, 2019, 4:32 pm

LimeGreenMachine wrote:
January 12, 2019, 9:16 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.
Well, hopefully he's not as grubby off the field as Bird, who must have been one of the biggest low-lifes in the NRL.

You could be right, but nothing I've seen or heard indicates he's a rep quality ball playing back rower like Bird. He may have the niggle in defence though.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 » January 12, 2019, 4:32 pm

LimeGreenMachine wrote:
January 12, 2019, 9:16 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.
Well, hopefully he's not as grubby off the field as Bird, who must have been one of the biggest low-lifes in the NRL.

You could be right, but nothing I've seen or heard indicates he's a rep quality ball playing back rower like Bird. He may have the niggle in defence though.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Seiffert82 » January 12, 2019, 4:36 pm

RTW wrote:
January 12, 2019, 8:48 am
Tapines is a powerful runner of the football and a player you love sending at opposition halves. As a result he makes the opposition question themselves. However his defensive decision making on the edge is suspect.

The benefit of playing him in the middle is that he attracts a lot of defenders and therefore can create room on the edges and doesn’t have to make as many decisions in defence.




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Yeah, I agree. He attracts a lot of defence in the middle by running nice angles with footwork and an offload. I prefer him defending there too.

Papa and Whitehead are arguably two of the top half dozen second rowers in the world. I hate the idea of killing their games and reducing their minutes as middles

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Raiders666 » January 12, 2019, 6:24 pm

Papalli was massive in the middle at the back end of last season... Tapine is an out and out edge player imo...

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by bonehead » January 12, 2019, 6:36 pm

Raiders666 wrote:Papalli was massive in the middle at the back end of last season... Tapine is an out and out edge player imo...
what did you think of his defence 666? I thought he was contributing to the pressure on Austin and Beej

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by edwahu » January 12, 2019, 6:42 pm

Pretty sure he played on the opposite side most of the time.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Raiders666 » January 12, 2019, 6:49 pm

bonehead wrote:
January 12, 2019, 6:36 pm
Raiders666 wrote:Papalli was massive in the middle at the back end of last season... Tapine is an out and out edge player imo...
what did you think of his defence 666? I thought he was contributing to the pressure on Austin and Beej

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I thought it was ok...he had his moments but when he was aggressive he was really good . Id like to see how we go without Austin before i judge him to much. His best games for us have been out wide no doubt and i'd be shocked of Ricky doesn't play Papalli at prop this year.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Raiders_Pat » January 12, 2019, 8:03 pm

Raiders666 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 6:49 pm
bonehead wrote:
January 12, 2019, 6:36 pm
Raiders666 wrote:Papalli was massive in the middle at the back end of last season... Tapine is an out and out edge player imo...
what did you think of his defence 666? I thought he was contributing to the pressure on Austin and Beej

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I thought it was ok...he had his moments but when he was aggressive he was really good . Id like to see how we go without Austin before i judge him to much. His best games for us have been out wide no doubt and i'd be shocked of Ricky doesn't play Papalli at prop this year.
Tapine's defence has been good on the edges IMO. He's no Whitehead but he has been better than Papalii has been there since his weight gain. He has also spent most of his game time in first grade playing in the middle so I'd say he will get better the more time he spends there. Plus he's still relatively young. If his defence continues to improve then he is right on track to become one of the best second rowers (if not the best) in the competition.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Raiders666 » January 12, 2019, 8:13 pm

Either way it's a good headache to have..
Papalii going to prop solves a lot more proplems for us though i reckon

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Rick » January 12, 2019, 11:30 pm

Can always change it back if it is not working out.


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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Matt » January 14, 2019, 11:47 am

MrPosh wrote:
January 11, 2019, 7:43 pm
edwahu wrote:
January 11, 2019, 11:22 am
Matt wrote:
January 11, 2019, 10:03 am
There is a reason he is considered a backrower/ centre. Which in the NRL leads me to believe that he is more likely to be successful on the edge.
Maybe he is a dogged tough nut that will make it work.
However, as we already know, we have 4 international backrowers, and while is generally accepted that Papa will move to prop, one of the other 3 has to go to lock. If Bateman was 1st crack, have at it.
FWIW, he is the smallest of the 4 we have, and I suspect he will be giving away anywhere from 5-30kgs (Lolo and Surgess are 120-125kgs) to his opponent every week at lock.
Yeah, the reason is because he had an english legend in front of him at lock. When that player was injured or moved to cover an injury it appears he played lock.

He would be 6kgs heavier and 3kgs lighter than the grand final locks, so his size isn't that big of an issue. He is 98kgs, not 88.
He's a better player than O'Loughlin, in my opinion.

However, O'Loughlin is (currently) the last in the line of the English Loose Forward - who takes the role of the third pivot. You can go back through the Farrell, Sculthorpe and Hanley from my lifetime who were greats of the game and back to Mal Reilly and, I'm sure, beyond for other examples.

We've now followed the Australian game in having the full back as the extra playmaker and using the Loose Forward, or Lock, as just another middle forward.

Bateman is better for that role than O'Loughlin, and although he has good hands, he's not the playmaker that O'Loughlin is and doesn't offer the extra dimension he brings.

I suspect he'll be in the middle to shore up the defence behind the ruck in the middle - where there have been plenty of gaps for the last couple of years. And don't worry about his size - you'd take a Pit Bull over a St Bernard in a fight.
Thanks for the insight

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by julian87 » January 14, 2019, 11:58 am

LimeGreenMachine wrote:
January 12, 2019, 9:16 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.
Disagreed. Fair bit smaller than Bird and with less ball play from what I’ve seen.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by sprintman » January 14, 2019, 1:18 pm

The weather over the next four days will test him

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Goldcoast Raider » January 14, 2019, 5:12 pm

I think he will score over 10 tries this year :cmon

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 14, 2019, 5:24 pm

julian87 wrote:
January 14, 2019, 11:58 am
LimeGreenMachine wrote:
January 12, 2019, 9:16 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.
Disagreed. Fair bit smaller than Bird and with less ball play from what I’ve seen.
According to wikipedia Bateman is taller and only a few kgs lighter than Bird.

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John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Dusty » January 14, 2019, 7:34 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
julian87 wrote:
January 14, 2019, 11:58 am
LimeGreenMachine wrote:
January 12, 2019, 9:16 am
Seiffert82 wrote:
January 12, 2019, 7:58 am
He'll be similar to Alan Tongue. I don't know what everyone else is expecting of him. Defensive terrier with half decent hands.
I think he will be more like Greg Bird. Ball playing backrower/lock and can get grubby.
Disagreed. Fair bit smaller than Bird and with less ball play from what I’ve seen.
According to wikipedia Bateman is taller and only a few kgs lighter than Bird.
Bird 102kg and 183cm
Bateman 98kg and 185cm

Buggar all difference in size


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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Rick » January 14, 2019, 8:05 pm

Only a few pies in it really


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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by LimeGreenMachine » January 15, 2019, 6:31 am

Style of player was what I was referring to. Not size or build. Although I thought they do look similar

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Johno » January 15, 2019, 10:33 am

Rick wrote:
January 14, 2019, 8:05 pm
Only a few pies in it really


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Smaller than most on here then

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Chris-M » March 30, 2019, 7:21 pm

Why are you so obsessed with size? Analyzing him down to the last cm and kg. The last I checked, it wasn't a worlds tallest/heaviest man contest. Apart from competing for a ball in the air (Which a forward doesn't need to do much), I can't think of one situation where strength, technique, and determination won't make up for a lack of size.

Hopefully, you've seen enough from John now, to know that it's not just about pure size when it comes to being a good tackler and making metres. The next step in your development is not to write someone off just because they come from ESL. Which most of you did at first when the Bateman rumors first started surfacing.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by greeneyed » March 30, 2019, 7:42 pm

RTW wrote:
January 12, 2019, 8:48 am
Tapines is a powerful runner of the football and a player you love sending at opposition halves. As a result he makes the opposition question themselves. However his defensive decision making on the edge is suspect.

The benefit of playing him in the middle is that he attracts a lot of defenders and therefore can create room on the edges and doesn’t have to make as many decisions in defence.




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Joe came into Club 82 last night at half time. He's an absolutely great bloke by the way. He is also physically imposing. I don't feel that way often, Junior Paulo and Shannon Body were big, but Joe Tapine is huge and all muscle. No wonder he is such a gun on field.
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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by greeneyed » March 30, 2019, 7:44 pm

Chris-M wrote:
March 30, 2019, 7:21 pm
Why are you so obsessed with size? Analyzing him down to the last cm and kg. The last I checked, it wasn't a worlds tallest/heaviest man contest. Apart from competing for a ball in the air (Which a forward doesn't need to do much), I can't think of one situation where strength, technique, and determination won't make up for a lack of size.

Hopefully, you've seen enough from John now, to know that it's not just about pure size when it comes to being a good tackler and making metres. The next step in your development is not to write someone off just because they come from ESL. Which most of you did at first when the Bateman rumors first started surfacing.
I certainly didn't. I've watched him playing for Wigan and England. I thought he'd be very good. But he has adjusted instantly to the NRL, much faster than I expected. I gave him a 9 rating last night, and I think I gave one 9 all last season. This is Round 3.
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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by simo » March 30, 2019, 7:59 pm

I cant believe i wasnt more excited about this signing. Im sorry john, i love you now
Dont delete this GE

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by Begbie » March 30, 2019, 8:10 pm

Chris-M wrote:
March 30, 2019, 7:21 pm
Why are you so obsessed with size? Analyzing him down to the last cm and kg. The last I checked, it wasn't a worlds tallest/heaviest man contest. Apart from competing for a ball in the air (Which a forward doesn't need to do much), I can't think of one situation where strength, technique, and determination won't make up for a lack of size.

Hopefully, you've seen enough from John now, to know that it's not just about pure size when it comes to being a good tackler and making metres. The next step in your development is not to write someone off just because they come from ESL. Which most of you did at first when the Bateman rumors first started surfacing.
I always had high hopes for him, and he's exceeded them.

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Re: John Bateman signs with Canberra Raiders

Post by dubby » March 30, 2019, 8:13 pm

It's funny. People rave about size, but lamented the size of Junior and Boyd.

Size doesn't mean better.

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