Cap management

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T_R
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Re: Cap management

Post by T_R »

I'd laugh if she then claimed unfair dismissal. Would make for a great court case.

Seriously though, if this isn't punished then it's time to pack it in.
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-PJ-
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Re: Cap management

Post by -PJ- »

So she loses her job at the leagues club.

Val goes to America and fails.

He returns to the Sharks.

Girlfriend gets job back.
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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu »

T_R wrote: December 9, 2018, 12:37 pm I'd laugh if she then claimed unfair dismissal. Would make for a great court case.

Seriously though, if this isn't punished then it's time to pack it in.
Start packing, it isn't even on the NRL radar.

Honestly there is no way for the NRL to stop this stuff unless it's done through the football club and someone is dumb enough to document the link. Really should be doing the same if we don't already.
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greeneyed
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Re: Cap management

Post by greeneyed »

edwahu wrote: December 9, 2018, 1:54 pm
T_R wrote: December 9, 2018, 12:37 pm I'd laugh if she then claimed unfair dismissal. Would make for a great court case.

Seriously though, if this isn't punished then it's time to pack it in.
Start packing, it isn't even on the NRL radar.

Honestly there is no way for the NRL to stop this stuff unless it's done through the football club and someone is dumb enough to document the link. Really should be doing the same if we don't already.
Jobs at leagues clubs for family members is one of the top five things that salary cap auditors are supposed to look for.
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Re: Cap management

Post by gerg »

Earning a six figure salary for collecting glasses at the league's club. Nothing suss!

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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu »

greeneyed wrote: December 9, 2018, 2:08 pm
edwahu wrote: December 9, 2018, 1:54 pm
T_R wrote: December 9, 2018, 12:37 pm I'd laugh if she then claimed unfair dismissal. Would make for a great court case.

Seriously though, if this isn't punished then it's time to pack it in.
Start packing, it isn't even on the NRL radar.

Honestly there is no way for the NRL to stop this stuff unless it's done through the football club and someone is dumb enough to document the link. Really should be doing the same if we don't already.
Jobs at leagues clubs for family members is one of the top five things that salary cap auditors are supposed to look for.
Cap Auditors have never found anything ever though. It needs a whistle blower or paper trail showing the direct link.

I doubt they even have access to the necessary Leagues club records. Even then, they can't make any finding based on inference, it's not like the US codes where they have that power.

The sharks pulled this during a salary cap investigation, shows how worried they are.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Damoni »

Have to agree with Hodgson’s options inside the 20m, however with Paulo and Boyd gone that stupid crash ball option disappears.

One thing stood out to me when the Sharks beat us in the finals was Ennis at the end of his career was on another level and his ability to get repeat sets from hooker won them the game.

If Hodgson could add that to his game that would raise him to top tier.
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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu »

Hodgson was totally dominating that sharks game until he got injured.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Sid »

Will still do the crash ball on the last option, but instead of Paulo or Boyd it’ll be L Bateman or Sutton
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Re: Cap management

Post by Johno »

-PJ- wrote: December 9, 2018, 12:54 pm So she loses her job at the leagues club.

Val goes to America and fails.

He returns to the Sharks.

Girlfriend gets job back.
Gallen retires and the Sharks sign Ponga, TPJ, Sam Burgess and Tedesco.

Roosters and Broncos claim cap rorting
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Re: Cap management

Post by papabear »

edwahu wrote: December 9, 2018, 4:32 pm Hodgson was totally dominating that sharks game until he got injured.
in your opinion what could hodgson do better? what do you think he will work on? What do other hookers have that he doesnt have?
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Re: Cap management

Post by edwahu »

papabear wrote: December 10, 2018, 9:42 am
edwahu wrote: December 9, 2018, 4:32 pm Hodgson was totally dominating that sharks game until he got injured.
in your opinion what could hodgson do better? what do you think he will work on? What do other hookers have that he doesnt have?
He could cut out some of the poor decisions he makes. He does do some dumb things close to the line at times, mostly kicking early.

Other hookers have other strengths. Some like Cook have a better running game. Some have limited games and don't produce any attack so they have a lower error rate but I don't see that as a strength.

I am not saying he is perfect, but no hooker is (except Smith).
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Re: Cap management

Post by papabear »

I dont need our players to be smith.

I also get why the raiders paid him 800k, he is our best spine player.

But in my mind, if Josh Hodgson is your best spine player that is your problem right there. My only hope is that he improves his decision making (which in his defence he did in 2018) again in 2019 to a stage where he injects himself when we have a fast ptb or we really need him, not every second play.
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Re: Cap management

Post by zim »

His worst decisions usually come off the back of poor halves performances. He tries way too hard to make it all happen. If there was one area I'd like to see him improve it's just having patience.

That said he deserves the money he is getting and we're lucky to have him.
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Re: Cap management

Post by BJ »

zim wrote:His worst decisions usually come off the back of poor halves performances. He tries way too hard to make it all happen. If there was one area I'd like to see him improve it's just having patience.

That said he deserves the money he is getting and we're lucky to have him.
Yep agree sometimes he’s way too impatient. Josh just has to pass the ball quickly to another player, not try and engage the markers so regularly.

But as for the payment issue that some are complaining about, if other clubs are Paying props like Boyd and Paulo over $650k a year, there’s no way they wouldn’t pay $800k for a Hooker like Hodgson.

Even if you think Hodgson is only the 8th best Hooker in the NRL, there’s still half the clubs in the comp who would take him if possible.
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Re: Cap management

Post by papabear »

If a club makes stupid decisions to overpay Paulo , maybe they would be stupid enough to dump overs on Hodgson.

I try to compare value for players on what a good club would pay not a mediocre or **** one.

But overs is still overs.

The Cronulla leagues club is another example of other clubs paying a lot more then the cap to get a better list, tbh it’s what we need from our management.

Though in all honesty our list and cap management hasn’t been woeful our coaching has been where we have been let down.
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Re: Cap management

Post by BJ »

Your missing the point. $800k is not overs for one of the best half dozen hookers in the game.

1.2 Million for a spine player like Ben Hunt or $850k for Mitchell Moses is overs for a spine player of their skills and performance ratings.

But $800k for Hodgson is not what rugby league experts would call overs.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Dusty »

Hodgson —> Dally M medal 2019


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Re: Cap management

Post by papabear »

BJ wrote: December 10, 2018, 9:50 pm Your missing the point. $800k is not overs for one of the best half dozen hookers in the game.

1.2 Million for a spine player like Ben Hunt or $850k for Mitchell Moses is overs for a spine player of their skills and performance ratings.

But $800k for Hodgson is not what rugby league experts would call overs.
Through the first half of the season ben hunt looked like a bargain, he also had a good final series, although I agree that he was a massive massive overpay by considerably more then hodgson is.

Hodgson, played for england and hull was the incumbent canberra hooker, I am not sure we needed to pay him 800k nor do I think it represents good value.

No matter how much you pay mitch moses he was a massive overpay. Whether it be 200k or 2m per season.

At 800k you are in the elite territory and hodgson to me isnt putting elite performances on the park week after week. Nor do I think there is an absolute dirth of hookers that you have to pay overs for them.

Though I will concede it isnt a massive anchor handicap of an overpay that mitch moses and ben hunt is, I am not going to concede he is worth 800k until he starts playing like a bloke who is worth 800k.
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Re: Cap management

Post by The Nickman »

papabear wrote: December 7, 2018, 10:12 am
dubby wrote: December 7, 2018, 10:06 am
edwahu wrote:As in Cameron McInnes? Really?
Neither Cook or McInnis are better than Hodgo

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Re: Cap management

Post by BadnMean »

papabear wrote: December 11, 2018, 9:49 am
BJ wrote: December 10, 2018, 9:50 pm Your missing the point. $800k is not overs for one of the best half dozen hookers in the game.

1.2 Million for a spine player like Ben Hunt or $850k for Mitchell Moses is overs for a spine player of their skills and performance ratings.

But $800k for Hodgson is not what rugby league experts would call overs.
Through the first half of the season ben hunt looked like a bargain, he also had a good final series, although I agree that he was a massive massive overpay by considerably more then hodgson is.

Hodgson, played for england and hull was the incumbent canberra hooker, I am not sure we needed to pay him 800k nor do I think it represents good value.

No matter how much you pay mitch moses he was a massive overpay. Whether it be 200k or 2m per season.

At 800k you are in the elite territory and hodgson to me isnt putting elite performances on the park week after week. Nor do I think there is an absolute dirth of hookers that you have to pay overs for them.

Though I will concede it isnt a massive anchor handicap of an overpay that mitch moses and ben hunt is, I am not going to concede he is worth 800k until he starts playing like a bloke who is worth 800k.
I can follow your thinking and it is a reasoned point. But I disagree.

Hodgson was putting in elite performances week in week out the last few seasons. He quickly became the #2 hooker in the game and our most influential player. He was the only one who looked smart and like he had a clue how to manage a game. He has a range of skills and executes at clutch times often.

His form since the ACL was top drawer- we've all seen players comeback hesitant, some never the same, some take 6 months to get going. Testament to him that he hit the ground running and was straight away shaping us to a better team when he returned. We started winning games again and if we'd had a fullback might even have saved something from the season.

I think he and Papa are the only raiders worth that kind of $$. Rapana is fabulous but wingers don't get paid that high.
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Re: Cap management

Post by Lui_Bon »

BadnMean wrote: December 11, 2018, 11:53 am
papabear wrote: December 11, 2018, 9:49 am
BJ wrote: December 10, 2018, 9:50 pm Your missing the point. $800k is not overs for one of the best half dozen hookers in the game.

1.2 Million for a spine player like Ben Hunt or $850k for Mitchell Moses is overs for a spine player of their skills and performance ratings.

But $800k for Hodgson is not what rugby league experts would call overs.
Through the first half of the season ben hunt looked like a bargain, he also had a good final series, although I agree that he was a massive massive overpay by considerably more then hodgson is.

Hodgson, played for england and hull was the incumbent canberra hooker, I am not sure we needed to pay him 800k nor do I think it represents good value.

No matter how much you pay mitch moses he was a massive overpay. Whether it be 200k or 2m per season.

At 800k you are in the elite territory and hodgson to me isnt putting elite performances on the park week after week. Nor do I think there is an absolute dirth of hookers that you have to pay overs for them.

Though I will concede it isnt a massive anchor handicap of an overpay that mitch moses and ben hunt is, I am not going to concede he is worth 800k until he starts playing like a bloke who is worth 800k.
I can follow your thinking and it is a reasoned point. But I disagree.

Hodgson was putting in elite performances week in week out the last few seasons. He quickly became the #2 hooker in the game and our most influential player. He was the only one who looked smart and like he had a clue how to manage a game. He has a range of skills and executes at clutch times often.

His form since the ACL was top drawer- we've all seen players comeback hesitant, some never the same, some take 6 months to get going. Testament to him that he hit the ground running and was straight away shaping us to a better team when he returned. We started winning games again and if we'd had a fullback might even have saved something from the season.

I think he and Papa are the only raiders worth that kind of $$. Rapana is fabulous but wingers don't get paid that high.
I'm on your side with this. Papa, to me I thought Hodgson was putting in elite performances. Especially given the positions he often found himself where selfish dummy half runners forced him out wide on 5th tackle etc (and I know I've used the same argument for Austin and particularly Sezer). I reckon the game is evolving, perhaps thanks to the great hookers starting with Elias through Walters to Smith, where the fulcrum of all attacking play is good decision making at the back of every play the ball. Hodgson is pretty fine at getting this job done. If he had a defence that backed up the attack he quite clearly sets up, he'd be lauded even more. And his own defence is fine.

If he can no longer play the crash ball to Boyd and Paulo, I'm backing him to to be smart enough to stop doing it. Surely Luke Bateman won't be on the field enough to demonstrate his enthusiasm by being the one who is always in place to receive that crash ball... god I hope that's the case anyway.

I reckon about 12 clubs would gladly pay him more than that 800k. Who wouldn't? Melbourne would love him to replace Smith... soon as Smith's career ends. Souths don't need him. He's an upgrade on Issac Luke. Apart from young cheap blokes like Brayley, he'd be welcome just about anywhere.
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Re: Cap management

Post by papabear »

Tbh it’s just his decision making sometimes that gets me, I like all his skills and fundamentals in attack but for me to often he invokes the Farah/ Fidler play when it isn’t on.

Actually to be fair Farah just goes himself usually Hodgson passes after killing the time and space.

Let’s all hope that by the end of this season I am looking profoundly wrong and Hodgson shows the same growth that he did at the end of this year, and definately does not prove me right.
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Re: Cap management

Post by BadnMean »

papabear wrote: December 12, 2018, 8:24 pm Tbh it’s just his decision making sometimes that gets me, I like all his skills and fundamentals in attack but for me to often he invokes the Farah/ Fidler play when it isn’t on.

Actually to be fair Farah just goes himself usually Hodgson passes after killing the time and space.

Let’s all hope that by the end of this season I am looking profoundly wrong and Hodgson shows the same growth that he did at the end of this year, and definately does not prove me right.
I know exactly what you mean. And pretty sure I remember the handful of games where Hodgo "overplayed his hand" or didn't execute the miracle play he attempted (the odd weird kick to no-one or crash ball fetish game- one of which was a clear game plan to hit Papa and props vs Cartwright who normally tackles like a turnstile but put in his best defensive game ever that day). I just think they are rare enough to still be elite or born out of the fact we have structured our team around a gun hooker and average/running halves the last couple of years.

Sezer is supposed to be the steady kicking all rounder, Autin the running dynamo and Hodgo does the creating. When Austo was misfiring and Sezer's "steady" was more like "where is he" then Hodgo was asked to do it all. He often did but I do recognise those off game or two. I just think 1 or 2 of those out of 26 while carrying the can is still elite. Thurstaon has off days too just quietly.
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