I agree with a lot of this post. Great post LastRaiderLastRaider wrote:I blame our entire season failure due to pre-season and the first 4 rounds that basically defecated the entire confidence out of the team.
Due to the loss of Hodgson and the indecision around the hooking role we should have had 2 trial matches and leading into round 1 we should have well and truly been settled in the spine, the most important positions in the team. As much as Havilii has been great, he started off being only a 25 minute player and Garvey should have been given the hooker role from the beginning as he could play the 60 minutes required easily, with Havilii of the bench. Austin and Sezar should have been our halves as they deserved another chance together and Williams in Mounties. This combination of Garvey, Austin, Sezar and Wighton should not have been changed for the first 4 - 6 rounds.
Instead we had swaps and changes of Sezar, Williams and Austin every game. They were not able to get into any rhythm or into the season. There confidence became shattered and all 3 were constantly competing with each other on the field which meant a lot of selfish play was happening. As above we had a 25 minute hooker at best and we just had no flow or stability.
This resulted in massive loss of confidence for the Spine which then went through the team. Also during these 4 games there was no leadership by any of the halves as from week to week they didn’t know who was going to be playing and where. The first 4 losses basically set the scene for the season and it was pretty much season over then.
The results this year fall solely on Ricky and as much as I’m not a fan of Don either it’s not his fault. He relies on Ricky to do his job and he has failed. However it is now time for Don to step in and put Ricky on notice like any other CEO from other clubs would.
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Ricky Stuart coaching
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Re: Sack Ricky
Re: Sack Ricky
I think it might have been Mick Ennis a few weeks ago slam Ricky for not playing more than 1 trial without knowing who'd be the starting hooker come round 1.
Great post LastRaider, spot on.
Great post LastRaider, spot on.
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Re: Sack Ricky
Think you also need a “Sorry, not a loss” post now tooRTW wrote:Sorry not 13+...cancel that sack Ricky comment. Extend his contract instead!
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Re: Sack Ricky
Admittedly a horrendous conundrum, but if the choice of coach for 2019 was between Ricky or Dave Furner, which poison would you choose?
Re: Sack Ricky
That would involve the standard Queanbeyan Nappy Countback System to resolve - essentially who had their nappy changed first. Perfectly normal in the sports world to sort coaching issues in that kind of way.Billy Walker wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 10:27 pm Admittedly a horrendous conundrum, but if the choice of coach for 2019 was between Ricky or Dave Furner, which poison would you choose?
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Sack Ricky
I lost it.T_R wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 8:19 amThat would involve the standard Queanbeyan Nappy Countback System to resolve - essentially who had their nappy changed first. Perfectly normal in the sports world to sort coaching issues in that kind of way.Billy Walker wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 10:27 pm Admittedly a horrendous conundrum, but if the choice of coach for 2019 was between Ricky or Dave Furner, which poison would you choose?
That’s my favourite post ever
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Re: Sack Ricky
Dave Furner. Dave was inexperienced when he made the mistakes that ultimately cost him his job at the Raiders.Billy Walker wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 10:27 pm Admittedly a horrendous conundrum, but if the choice of coach for 2019 was between Ricky or Dave Furner, which poison would you choose?
Re: Sack Ricky
If this were Sophie’s choice you’d let the nazi’s have them both and move on with your lifeBilly Walker wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 10:27 pm Admittedly a horrendous conundrum, but if the choice of coach for 2019 was between Ricky or Dave Furner, which poison would you choose?
But I side with GEM here... Stuart’s been on the job for 15 years, across about 5 different HC positions
This is who he is, he’s not making any wild leaps forward in terms of his coaching development and philosophies
Furner probably isn’t either but you’d hope he learnt some lessons from his first stint and you could at least have hope that he’d improve... it might be unrealistic hope but it’s better than no hope
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Re: Sack Ricky
Furner didn't have the team ready to go to start the season once in his time. For that reason I'd stick with Stuart.
Re: Sack Ricky
You mean the Dave Furner who
- Picked Josh McCrone for 133 FG games
- Couldn't sign or develop a hooker better than Glen Buttriss in his entire time here, and had no inkling of doing so
- Could barely sign an established external player
- Didn't have players respecting him or the club, and fostered a rotten playing culture
- Had us consistently worried about which player was next to leave the club
- Had the team playing one of the most boring styles known to man
- Had the team performing completely unpredictable from one week to the other
- Never made the team serious contenders
I'll stick with Stuart thanks, despite his clear deficiencies.
- Picked Josh McCrone for 133 FG games
- Couldn't sign or develop a hooker better than Glen Buttriss in his entire time here, and had no inkling of doing so
- Could barely sign an established external player
- Didn't have players respecting him or the club, and fostered a rotten playing culture
- Had us consistently worried about which player was next to leave the club
- Had the team playing one of the most boring styles known to man
- Had the team performing completely unpredictable from one week to the other
- Never made the team serious contenders
I'll stick with Stuart thanks, despite his clear deficiencies.
Re: Sack Ricky
Sticky over Furner hands down but that’s purely based on his ability to attract some talent and you can’t argue that he has built a reasonable squad.
Whoever takes over this mess will have something to work with.
Furner did have some fine moments though, however there were way too many times on his watch where the team just simply gave up.
I honestly think with Furner now having worked in successful clubs with Paul Green and now Siebold he’d probably admit himself that he’s not a first grade coach.
Whoever takes over this mess will have something to work with.
Furner did have some fine moments though, however there were way too many times on his watch where the team just simply gave up.
I honestly think with Furner now having worked in successful clubs with Paul Green and now Siebold he’d probably admit himself that he’s not a first grade coach.
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Re: Sack Ricky
gangrenous wrote:Think you also need a “Sorry, not a loss” post now tooRTW wrote:Sorry not 13+...cancel that sack Ricky comment. Extend his contract instead!
Yes, it appears I didn’t buy into Ricky’s plan. I was wrong and Ricky is right. Extend him until 2025 and I’ve him the NSW and Australian jobs whilst we are at it!
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Re: Sack Ricky
Sticky really shoved that in everyone faces!RTW wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 12:29 pmgangrenous wrote:Think you also need a “Sorry, not a loss” post now tooRTW wrote:Sorry not 13+...cancel that sack Ricky comment. Extend his contract instead!
Yes, it appears I didn’t buy into Ricky’s plan. I was wrong and Ricky is right. Extend him until 2025 and I’ve him the NSW and Australian jobs whilst we are at it!
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Sack Ricky
There is no doubt that Austin is a poor defender but one thing that game showed was even without Austin in the team our right edge was still atrocious. They didn’t look like they were in the same library let alone the same page.
The try where BJ came in well after the pass was gone would have been funny if I was watching any other club.
Year after year our edge looks like they are out of sync this can only come down to systems that are in place.
Too often we are sliding when we should be up and in. We consistently slide close to the line. One bloke jamms in and regularly the bloke outside him stays out. We use step D and give up easy metres, we have zero ability to apply pressure when a team is coming of their own line.
If this isn’t a coaching flaw I don’t know what is. The storm can pull blokes like Cheyse **** Blair out of Resefve grade and teach him!
The try where BJ came in well after the pass was gone would have been funny if I was watching any other club.
Year after year our edge looks like they are out of sync this can only come down to systems that are in place.
Too often we are sliding when we should be up and in. We consistently slide close to the line. One bloke jamms in and regularly the bloke outside him stays out. We use step D and give up easy metres, we have zero ability to apply pressure when a team is coming of their own line.
If this isn’t a coaching flaw I don’t know what is. The storm can pull blokes like Cheyse **** Blair out of Resefve grade and teach him!
Re: Sack Ricky
Yeah, that's a fair point. Austin has become such a target it has meant a lot of players aren't getting tested as much.
Re: Sack Ricky
That's a hell of a list, all fairly accurate too.afgtnk wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 11:05 am You mean the Dave Furner who
- Picked Josh McCrone for 133 FG games
- Couldn't sign or develop a hooker better than Glen Buttriss in his entire time here, and had no inkling of doing so
- Could barely sign an established external player
- Didn't have players respecting him or the club, and fostered a rotten playing culture
- Had us consistently worried about which player was next to leave the club
- Had the team playing one of the most boring styles known to man
- Had the team performing completely unpredictable from one week to the other
- Never made the team serious contenders
I'll stick with Stuart thanks, despite his clear deficiencies.
Which makes you wonder how the **** Stuart has managed to basically put up an identical record with objectively a far FAR superior and more talented football team.
Stuart: 53-60
Furner: 53-68
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... rd=percent
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Re: Sack Ricky
Stuart's first couple of years were doing a fix it job. The last couple of years have certainly been poor - most specifically 2017 when most of our top players were on the park all season.Pigman wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 6:47 pmThat's a hell of a list, all fairly accurate too.afgtnk wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 11:05 am You mean the Dave Furner who
- Picked Josh McCrone for 133 FG games
- Couldn't sign or develop a hooker better than Glen Buttriss in his entire time here, and had no inkling of doing so
- Could barely sign an established external player
- Didn't have players respecting him or the club, and fostered a rotten playing culture
- Had us consistently worried about which player was next to leave the club
- Had the team playing one of the most boring styles known to man
- Had the team performing completely unpredictable from one week to the other
- Never made the team serious contenders
I'll stick with Stuart thanks, despite his clear deficiencies.
Which makes you wonder how the **** Stuart has managed to basically put up an identical record with objectively a far FAR superior and more talented football team.
Stuart: 53-60
Furner: 53-68
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... rd=percent
Looking back this year the loss to the Warriors was huge for Stuart's perception. We'd be 2pts out of the 8 if they hadn't thrown that one away, with the help of the refs levelling up the penalty count.
Re: Sack Ricky
And Furner’s first two years were blooding an insane amount of rookies.
Everyone has work to do in the opening 2 years of their coaching stints
Point is Furner was, overall, a disaster of a coach, and yet with a far superior roster Stuart has managed to maintain that level of stink.
It’s quite impressive
Everyone has work to do in the opening 2 years of their coaching stints
Point is Furner was, overall, a disaster of a coach, and yet with a far superior roster Stuart has managed to maintain that level of stink.
It’s quite impressive
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Re: Sack Ricky
Your analysis is pretty basic. I'm no Stuart fan but he clearly has us in a better position to perform week and week out that Furner ever did.Pigman wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 7:33 am And Furner’s first two years were blooding an insane amount of rookies.
Everyone has work to do in the opening 2 years of their coaching stints
Point is Furner was, overall, a disaster of a coach, and yet with a far superior roster Stuart has managed to maintain that level of stink.
It’s quite impressive
Look at our for and against over those seasons:
Furner
For Against
2009 489 520
2010 499 493
2011 423 623
2012 545 536
2013 434 624
2856 3419 (-406)
Stuart
For Against
2014 466 623
2015 577 569
2016 688 456
2017 558 497
2018 354 322
2643 2467 (+176)
You'd need to break this down more into losses by margins, but IMO we've actually been competing in most games since Stuart started here other than his first season.
Contrast that to Furner where we continually went into seasons underdone and fell behind the eight ball early. I also think we took a lot more heavy defeats in his time, we were all over the show with performance. To me the fact we've actually competed week in and week out under Stuart shows how bad Furner really was, and this basket case of an organisation gave him 5 years to learn on the job and turn it around
Last edited by Roger Kenworthy on July 9, 2018, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sack Ricky
Yeah that’s fair, being more competitive would be a real big tick if it actually produced substantially more wins
But if your not going to win the games, what does it ultimately matter if you lose by 4 or by 40?
Furner also made the 8 twice in 5 years, Stuart is on track for 1/5
As I said, if this was Sophie’s choice, you’d let the nazi’s take em both and do what they will with them and never think about them again. There is no good answer here, I just think it’s pretty **** remarkable that after 5 years, Stuart has managed to post almost the same identical record to Furner with a far superior football team.
That’s a masterclass of ineptitude to go stride for stride with Dave Furner’s W-L record given the talent disparity
But if your not going to win the games, what does it ultimately matter if you lose by 4 or by 40?
Furner also made the 8 twice in 5 years, Stuart is on track for 1/5
As I said, if this was Sophie’s choice, you’d let the nazi’s take em both and do what they will with them and never think about them again. There is no good answer here, I just think it’s pretty **** remarkable that after 5 years, Stuart has managed to post almost the same identical record to Furner with a far superior football team.
That’s a masterclass of ineptitude to go stride for stride with Dave Furner’s W-L record given the talent disparity
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Re: Sack Ricky
I think you could argue the team is in a much better state for the next Coach with the emphasis on competing week in and week out. That of course depends on between now and Ricky moving on though, every chance we have to get really bad before he is pushed.Pigman wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 8:27 am Yeah that’s fair, being more competitive would be a real big tick if it actually produced substantially more wins
But if your not going to win the games, what does it ultimately matter if you lose by 4 or by 40?
Furner also made the 8 twice in 5 years, Stuart is on track for 1/5
As I said, if this was Sophie’s choice, you’d let the nazi’s take em both and do what they will with them and never think about them again. There is no good answer here, I just think it’s pretty **** remarkable that after 5 years, Stuart has managed to post almost the same identical record to Furner with a far superior football team.
That’s a masterclass of ineptitude to go stride for stride with Dave Furner’s W-L record given the talent disparity
I think it also points out we were probably one quality half away from having a real golden era the past few years. Give us a half that can control the pace of the game and close out matches and we'd have been one of the best sides in the competition for three years now.
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Re: Sack Ricky
This is the worse debate ever. Both have been failures so why argue which you prefer? We have to move on from both.
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Re: Sack Ricky
Going to be funny when Don hires Dave back as head coach when Ricky's reign is over
Re: Sack Ricky
By about Round 4, when it was clear our defensive issues of the previous 3 years had not improved on iota, I was done with Ricky.
Sure putting Aiden Sezer into the 9 was a poor choice, but really, when it was clear to everyone that we had a good attack but it was defence that let us down at every opportunity year after year, you'd think that would be your priority in the offseason.
I mean Ivan Cleary got Luke friggen Brooks tackling people.
It's so frustrating.
Sure putting Aiden Sezer into the 9 was a poor choice, but really, when it was clear to everyone that we had a good attack but it was defence that let us down at every opportunity year after year, you'd think that would be your priority in the offseason.
I mean Ivan Cleary got Luke friggen Brooks tackling people.
It's so frustrating.
Re: Sack Ricky
What else you gonna do in a lost season but debate things like this.Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 9:21 am This is the worse debate ever. Both have been failures so why argue which you prefer? We have to move on from both.
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Re: Sack Ricky
I too, agree with the vast majority of that.gangrenous wrote: ↑July 7, 2018, 10:15 pmI agree with a lot of this post. Great post LastRaiderLastRaider wrote:I blame our entire season failure due to pre-season and the first 4 rounds that basically defecated the entire confidence out of the team.
Due to the loss of Hodgson and the indecision around the hooking role we should have had 2 trial matches and leading into round 1 we should have well and truly been settled in the spine, the most important positions in the team. As much as Havilii has been great, he started off being only a 25 minute player and Garvey should have been given the hooker role from the beginning as he could play the 60 minutes required easily, with Havilii of the bench. Austin and Sezar should have been our halves as they deserved another chance together and Williams in Mounties. This combination of Garvey, Austin, Sezar and Wighton should not have been changed for the first 4 - 6 rounds.
Instead we had swaps and changes of Sezar, Williams and Austin every game. They were not able to get into any rhythm or into the season. There confidence became shattered and all 3 were constantly competing with each other on the field which meant a lot of selfish play was happening. As above we had a 25 minute hooker at best and we just had no flow or stability.
This resulted in massive loss of confidence for the Spine which then went through the team. Also during these 4 games there was no leadership by any of the halves as from week to week they didn’t know who was going to be playing and where. The first 4 losses basically set the scene for the season and it was pretty much season over then.
The results this year fall solely on Ricky and as much as I’m not a fan of Don either it’s not his fault. He relies on Ricky to do his job and he has failed. However it is now time for Don to step in and put Ricky on notice like any other CEO from other clubs would.
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The bit I disagree with, is that Ricky did know who the hooker was. It was Sezer, debutized by Havilii.
Re: Sack Ricky
Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 9:21 am This is the worse debate ever. Both have been failures so why argue which you prefer? We have to move on from both.
Because if there's two dumpster fires there always has to be a bigger dumpster fire.
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Re: Sack Ricky
This article is a pisser. If the games went for 60 minutes this year we would be on top.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... cfa24174b3
And Supercoach see it’s not a mental thing!
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https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... cfa24174b3
And Supercoach see it’s not a mental thing!
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Re: Sack Ricky
Furner's time here for me will always be first and foremost associated with the likes of Dugan and Ferguson and the absolute embarrassment out club became during that period. Not entirely fair on Dave perhaps, but I just hated that era. At least since Sticky's been here we have salvaged back some credibility within the community, though our current form and the Wighton debacle could soon bring an end to that too.
Ricky has had the most talented roster since our glory days. Admittedly he deserves some credit for assembling these players, but having done so the results are just nowhere near good enough. To miss the 8 last year - given the team we had, a frankly incredible run with injuries, and a soft draw - would have been enough for any club with ambition to start looking to make a change. Not the Raiders though. We're still here watching our team lose games in the exact same fashion and pushing around predictable excuses.
Ricky has had the most talented roster since our glory days. Admittedly he deserves some credit for assembling these players, but having done so the results are just nowhere near good enough. To miss the 8 last year - given the team we had, a frankly incredible run with injuries, and a soft draw - would have been enough for any club with ambition to start looking to make a change. Not the Raiders though. We're still here watching our team lose games in the exact same fashion and pushing around predictable excuses.
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Re: Sack Ricky
I know this post is mostly about defence but our famous “Leipana” has been non-existent since Whitehead was moved - I’d like to see him back there.RTW wrote: ↑July 8, 2018, 2:37 pm There is no doubt that Austin is a poor defender but one thing that game showed was even without Austin in the team our right edge was still atrocious. They didn’t look like they were in the same library let alone the same page.
The try where BJ came in well after the pass was gone would have been funny if I was watching any other club.
Year after year our edge looks like they are out of sync this can only come down to systems that are in place.
Too often we are sliding when we should be up and in. We consistently slide close to the line. One bloke jamms in and regularly the bloke outside him stays out. We use step D and give up easy metres, we have zero ability to apply pressure when a team is coming of their own line.
If this isn’t a coaching flaw I don’t know what is. The storm can pull blokes like Cheyse **** Blair out of Resefve grade and teach him!
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Re: Sack Ricky
Stuart reached second spot, bar one Eddy Lee dropped ball a Grand Final.Pigman wrote:And Furner’s first two years were blooding an insane amount of rookies.
Everyone has work to do in the opening 2 years of their coaching stints
Point is Furner was, overall, a disaster of a coach, and yet with a far superior roster Stuart has managed to maintain that level of stink.
It’s quite impressive
Since then our roster has regressed terribly. Akin to the roster Furner had.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Sack Ricky
If that doesn't say poor quality halves and leadership, then I don't know what does.LastRaider wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 5:43 pm This article is a pisser. If the games went for 60 minutes this year we would be on top.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... cfa24174b3
And Supercoach see it’s not a mental thing!
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Re: Sack Ricky
PUL-Lease.dubby wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 7:08 pmStuart reached second spot, bar one Eddy Lee dropped ball a Grand Final.Pigman wrote:And Furner’s first two years were blooding an insane amount of rookies.
Everyone has work to do in the opening 2 years of their coaching stints
Point is Furner was, overall, a disaster of a coach, and yet with a far superior roster Stuart has managed to maintain that level of stink.
It’s quite impressive
Since then our roster has regressed terribly. Akin to the roster Furner had.
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Re: Sack Ricky
You guys still going? May as well argue about which testicle you would prefer to have removed.
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Re: Sack Ricky
Huh?Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 9, 2018, 8:08 pm You guys still going? May as well argue about which testicle you would prefer to have removed.
Left, always and forever. Wake up, idiot.