The Politics Thread 2018
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
SA to make law mandatory reporting for child abuse, no more confession protection.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.n ... le/9868332
https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.n ... le/9868332
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
TR a legal/business question for you, are there any legal repercussions if a business publicly states they will break the law, a contempt of court type of thing, conspiring or criminal intent?
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
*queue some rant about how governments and law just need to get out of the way of business*
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Much to general a question. In the most general possible sense though, expressing an intent to break a law wouldn't seem to be actionable in any case outside terrorism / violent crime.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
**** offSossman wrote:*queue some rant about how governments and law just need to get out of the way of business*
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
True.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
.T_R wrote:**** offSossman wrote:*queue some rant about how governments and law just need to get out of the way of business*
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Was in regards to mandatory reporting of child abuse.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
How would that work? You've either witnessed it and are therefore breaking the law by not reporting, or you have not witnessed it and expect to do so??
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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The Politics Thread 2018
See his earlier post. It was about whether institutions stating they would break the law was itself breaking the law.
So presumably he’s wondering whether there are any legal ramifications if the Catholic Church made public comments suggesting they were unwilling to comply with confessional laws.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
It's a conspiracy! Literally
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
The institution isnt breaking the law, individual priests would be. But since we're talking about the confessional here and there are only two people present, it would pretty much take an admission to secure a conviction anyway.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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The Politics Thread 2018
But that’s still not what Manbush is asking about (as I understand it).
I think he’s interested in public declarations by the church governance in defiance of the law. E.g. what would happen if the church issued a statement that they had advised their priests to act according to their conscience on confessional reporting?
Not that it would happen.
I think he’s interested in public declarations by the church governance in defiance of the law. E.g. what would happen if the church issued a statement that they had advised their priests to act according to their conscience on confessional reporting?
Not that it would happen.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Wouldn't it be similar to OH&S law where directors can be personally accountable if found that there were inadequate policies, procedures, governance and enforcement in place to ensure compliance?Sossman wrote:Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Back to Manbush's question. I'm a long way past crim law now and haven't touched it in ages. But from what I remember, offences that were "attempted xyz" or "intent to xyz" or "conspiracy to commit xyz" had to themselves be specific offenses in the criminal code?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Would entirely depend on the situationSossman wrote:Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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To clarify, I understand that the confessional specifically precludes the disclosure of information to the organisation.
Hence a reasonable person test.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
For sure.T_R wrote:Would entirely depend on the situationSossman wrote:Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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If an employee was acting outside of company policy and their own authority having had adequate training... probably not.
If the company is definantly and publically stating it will not comply with a law... and directing its people to implement that stance... oooooofff errrrbody getting fisted.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
That legislation is unique to OHS, I believe. It provides for an absolute responsibilty to be held by Directors. It's actually quite alarming, though courts have applied a very loose definition.Sossman wrote:Wouldn't it be similar to OH&S law where directors can be personally accountable if found that there were inadequate policies, procedures, governance and enforcement in place to ensure compliance?Sossman wrote:Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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Good luck.
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Ok good point.T_R wrote:Would entirely depend on the situationSossman wrote:Right, ok.T_R wrote:You'd have to demonstrate that the corporation reasonably could be expected to have knowledge of a private conversation between two people that took place in secrecy in a little two door box.Sossman wrote:All the more reason to have churches treated as corporations under the Corporations Act?
Fines? Director (archbishop?) Accountabilty?
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Good luck.
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So a corporation is not vicariously liable for the acts and omissions of their officers and agents unless they have express knowledge of the breach?
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To clarify, I understand that the confessional specifically precludes the disclosure of information to the organisation.
Hence a reasonable person test.
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How's this one. One priest confesses to another in the box that he's been offending.
The other priest, while not breaching the confidentiality, actively lobbies within the church to have the confessing priest moved from parish to parish.
Now. Senior church figures see this pattern of parish mobility, yet choose to keep quiet.
Was it a rogue element, or is that institutional?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Anyone worth a damn would argue that employees are moved within divisions of an institution all the time for a myriad of reasons, and that no assumptions could be made from that.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Yes the very terse thin lipped legal eagle the company brings in to defend them would run that line immediately.T_R wrote:Anyone worth a damn would argue that employees are moved within divisions of an institution all the time for a myriad of reasons, and that no assumptions could be made from that.
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Is that right though? Should laws around director and board accountability reward those that value plausible deniability over proper governance and assurance?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
No, in this case it's obviously pretty **** far from right.
But that doesn't change the need to ultimately build a case beyond reasonable doubt.
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But that doesn't change the need to ultimately build a case beyond reasonable doubt.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Well Trump might visit Australia in November.
Fortunately I've already organised with TR to hide in a cabin on his ranch for the duration of the trip.
Fortunately I've already organised with TR to hide in a cabin on his ranch for the duration of the trip.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Pretty sure if you threaten to break someones face or murder them, the threat, causing fear amounts to assault in nsw.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
If you engender a fear of being hit, that is assault.
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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
The Justice Kennedy retirement has kicked US politics up a notch. Going to be a very interesting next few months as the mid-terms get closer.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
No surprises in the by elections. Liberals look to have gone backwards everywhere they ran a candidate.
Re: The Politics Thread 2018
Wasn't this supposed to be history in the making?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2018
I took from the Antony Green summary that in Tasmania the Liberal candidate increased his share of the vote but there was an independent who preferenced Labor which has got them over the line.Green eyed Mick wrote: ↑July 28, 2018, 7:22 pm No surprises in the by elections. Liberals look to have gone backwards everywhere they ran a candidate.
Qld proved the big shock though with the collapse of the LNP vote. 'Big Trev' turned out to be a 'Big Trough'. I don't follow it that closely but 'Big Trev' apparently lost a state seat at the last state election and has a smell about him claiming to have a military medal which he did not earn. He also does not live in the area he is seeking election for. Either the depth of talent is poor or the LNP have botched the preselection. Could be both.
In South Australia the 'Downer' factor was a downer. Although I believe she has now moved to the area and will stand again at the next general election. The sitting member is very popular in Mayo and just proved it with a big increase in her primary vote. Good luck to her.