Inability to build pressure

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dubby
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by dubby »

Frankly, I think Hodgson spoiled a few last tackle options with some poor kicks or a crash ball to a forward

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Finite »

Not just the inability to build pressure but it also seems, at least from the sidelines, that there is an unwillingness to do so. More than anything in the past couple of years we have lacked a clear on field leader in close games. It often looks like Austin, Seazer, Hodgo are all doing their own thing which is especially damaging in close games where we just need to hold the ball or get repeat set.

You hear commentators say all the time, don't play the scoreboard. No. Play the damn scoreboard because if your on the wrong side of it at the end of 80 minutes you loose. You cannot win a premiership without adapting your play style to the conditions of the game.

If we are up 6 points with 10 minutes to go we should have a clear leader on the field to stand up and give the team precise instructions on how to defend that lead. Every member needs to know their place in that situation. How often do we see at this time of the game the Raiders get caught out on the last or BJ throw a hail-mary short side pass to Rapa only to loose field position and put our defence under pressure as a result. On top of this 8 times out of 10 our defence simply isn't good enough at the end of a tight game to hold out and we loose.

The Raiders I believe have a team good enough, most of the time, to be in the game but our ability to control it or defend our errors if they do occur is killing us. That's the optimistic view. The pessimistic view is maybe they already know this and we simply just aren't good enough. Unforced errors and missed tackles can be worked on in training but a lot of these come off the back of really risky plays in tight games. Surely that needs to be corrected first.
Last edited by Finite on March 8, 2018, 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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greeneyed
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by greeneyed »

Good post Finite. Nice to see you back posting!
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Finite »

Thanks GE
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Matt »

This, along with our D, have been glaring issues for yrs, yet nothing has been done.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ruben Daley »

Good post, Finite.

I’d add that someone in the forwards needs to lead the line speed. Bateman is the only guy who consistently moves with speed. It’d be great now Elliott is in the middle if he led a quicker, united defensive line. This would have so many flow-on effects on all those other areas you idenfiied.
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Finite
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Finite »

Ruben Daley wrote: March 7, 2018, 7:48 pm Good post, Finite.

I’d add that someone in the forwards needs to lead the line speed. Bateman is the only guy who consistently moves with speed. It’d be great now Elliott is in the middle if he led a quicker, united defensive line. This would have so many flow-on effects on all those other areas you idenfiied.
Yep good call. Certainly with the decreased interchange the Raiders seem to have been one of the slower teams in the comp to lighten their forward pack.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ultima »

Well it happened again... We didn't get a single forced repeat set all game.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by 86 invader »

Ultima wrote: March 2, 2018, 3:23 pm I've said it a few times on here and it looks like this year we will continue to be the team which can't build pressure on the opposition to save our lives (we excel and building pressure on ourselves though).

Our lack of forcing repeat sets, our inability to make meters, our terrible long kicking game, the amount of meters we let them get back on us due to our pathetic line speed in defence. It just lets other teams off the hook so bloody often and I really believe a primary reason we keep losing games in the last twenty minutes... Most of our points are coming from individual brilliants, rarely a team effort, and almost never from sustained pressure or forcing the other team to make mistakes.

It's never been more apparent than in this lovely graphic from the NRL:
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I guess the real question is, how can we fix it? Is it the players we have, so we are screwed, or is it the way they are being told to play?

The full article is here on the short kicking game and repeat set stats:
https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/03/01/sta ... t-kicking/
I think this is the root of all evil... You can't force repeat sets if you're rarely in position to do so...
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ultima »

Can I just confirm, that's two games with no forced repeat sets right?
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by gangrenous »

Also none conceded though tonight wasn’t it?
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by greeneyed »

The Knights didn't need repeat sets. They just scored off every limited opportunity offered.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: March 18, 2018, 11:04 pm The Knights didn't need repeat sets. They just scored off every limited opportunity offered.
Pretty much. They weren't camped in our 20m zone for any extended periods
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by jonisdangerous »

greeneyed wrote: March 18, 2018, 11:04 pm The Knights didn't need repeat sets. They just scored off every limited opportunity offered.
It was truly ridiculous.
"Look at Josh Dugan, his stupidity is amazing." - Brent Tate
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by dubby »

Ultima wrote: March 11, 2018, 7:56 pm Well it happened again... We didn't get a single forced repeat set all game.
40/20 ?
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Canberra Milk
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Canberra Milk »

jonisdangerous wrote: March 19, 2018, 5:26 am
greeneyed wrote: March 18, 2018, 11:04 pm The Knights didn't need repeat sets. They just scored off every limited opportunity offered.
It was truly ridiculous.
Yes, just crazily easy.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ultima »

We got a repeat set against the Warriors.... It was a fluke not really an actual forced repeat set though... That's still behind even last years pathetic average though... Glad we got Williams back to give us a better kicking half...
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ultima »

Back on this again... We yet again managed to no control the game at all... Doesn't help when Sezer can't even pass it to our own team anymore and his kicking game was back to the worst thing to ever wear a Green jersey but the team as a whole had no intention of building pressure or game management... We score a try, against the run of play, go for the mid-field bomb right afterwards... Like seriously ****.... Kick to the corners and setup a scrum 10m out, we needed the break and it keeps us in a dominant field position at least. Later in the game, didn't even get close to a repeat set.... Our halves a ****, we get that, but we aren't even TRYING to build pressure, EVER... We got a few repeat sets in the last couple of weeks mostly through accidents but at least we got something... Now, back to nothing...
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by greeneyed »

The mid field bombs were clearly the game plan... and the responsibility for that not working resides with the coaches.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Relax-init »

greeneyed wrote: May 13, 2018, 11:16 pm The mid field bombs were clearly the game plan... and the responsibility for that not working resides with the coaches.
Fill move those bombs.. no chase pressure, no accuracy, why bomb when you have the lead, no game management when in front. it is terrible to watch. Watching them play this year is almost as bad as watching an evening of tour de france.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by RedRaider »

We score enough points to win matches. I think we are in the top 5 in the entire NRL for tries scored this year. Yet again.

We cannot defend a lead. We go to water with the slightest pressure applied to us. The Coach is too emotional for rational thought. The Captain must have an underarm deodorant sponsorship with the amount of time he waves his arms around, but rarely do we see him call the players into a huddle and lay it on the line. We need some roster changes to oust some of the more pressure prone.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Schifty »

It's almost like we are too scared of giving a 7 tackles set.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by gangrenous »

Not surprising. Every kick towards the in-goal just about ends up in row 5
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by LastRaider »

Our squad is just so far far away from winning a premiership. We need to rebuild around good spine, not a forward pack.


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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Lui_Bon »

Hingano put in two appalling grubbers. perhaps if he'd actually had any practice as a playmaker....
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by jozzas »

Lui_Bon wrote: May 16, 2018, 9:52 pm Hingano put in two appalling grubbers. perhaps if he'd actually had any practice as a playmaker....
Yeah hard to blame him as it appears he was playing off the cuff and there was nothing doing outside him. Not sure how much practice he had calling plays or last tackle kicking. Set up to fail.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by gangrenous »

Disagree, I thought in both those cases a good kick had the Sharks under some pressure.

Surely NRL level halves don’t forget how to grubber.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Botman »

I really think it's unfair to criticise Hingano for playing poorly as a middle defender, or criticising him as a half when the coach has him spending his entire time training and playing as a hooker

He's not a hooker. Never has been, never will be. Likely he's not a good NRL half either. But nothing we see from him right now is worth considering in relation to his long term ability to be an NRL half.

Garvey needs to come in, and Hingano needs to go back to being a 5/8th and see if he can break into the top team at a position he's well suited to. Likely he wont. But im not going to crucify the guy for performing very poorly in a position he absolutely should not be playing.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by dubby »

Pig, I really doubt Garvey will play for us.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Botman »

Which begs the question... if you're going to move TWO halves to the middle and watch them fail, why did you bother signing the guy in the first place?

I dont think Ricky Stuart is a good coach, but i also dont think he's intellectually disabled, and i think anyone with an IQ over 80 might EVENTUALLY decide that rolling out halves to play long minutes at hooker is a bad idea. And maybe Garvey gets a run (more likely Hodgson comes back early haha)

So im giving the coach the BOTD that he's not a drooling idiot and will dispense with this idea that Sezer or Hingano can play 30+ minutes of hooker in a game and hold up. I hope im not giving him too much credit
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by zim »

I'm working under the assumption that he signed Garvey to actually use him then he stuffed something up off the field. It's the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
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Re: Inability to build pressure

Post by Ultima »

We got one repeat set I think, the rest of the time was Sezer kicking with no one even knowing it was on (so no chase) Austin kicking it into row 7, running it on the last, or just TERRIBLE cross field kicks... I guess at least we didn't bomb it constantly, we did it once and it worked then never touched it again.

We had a man out and we didn't kick it out for a scrum once... Like do the players even know the basics of the game? You have a man down, you want to defend as little as possible until they are back, you should pretty much always kick out to get a scrum going if you have no hope of getting a repeat set (which we statistically have no hope of).
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