Croker for the wing

[edwahu]

Toots almost never gets to the contest though. There has never been a player blocked on the run more.

[Finchy]

Gould mentioned last night something along the lines that Croker is the best in the comp at contested catches.. would have to say that it'd be Croker if not Vunivalu.. who else would be up there?

Actually it was "best kick chaser" (which includes grubbers and uncontested catches).

If it was solely contested catches, I'm not sure if Croker would be "the best", but he'd be right up there.

[Finchy]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

[Sid]

Gould mentioned last night something along the lines that Croker is the best in the comp at contested catches.. would have to say that it'd be Croker if not Vunivalu.. who else would be up there?

Actually it was "best kick chaser" (which includes grubbers and uncontested catches).

If it was solely contested catches, I'm not sure if Croker would be "the best", but he'd be right up there.

Ah yep, that's what it was. Makes more sense and I'd have to agree with it!

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

Nothing he couldn't learn - they do train specifically for this with gym mats etc.

[Finchy]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

Nothing he couldn't learn - they do train specifically for this with gym mats etc.

I don't think he has the body type, personally.

But then again Cotric is quite solid yet still reasonably acrobatic, so who knows?

[FuiFui BradBrad]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

Nothing he couldn't learn - they do train specifically for this with gym mats etc.

That’s right. Get Cap onto a trampoline and tell him to get practising.

Is there a Flipout world in Canberra he can go to?

[gangrenous]

He’s had a couple of acrobatic put-downs from big leaps

[raiderskater]

Toots almost never gets to the contest though. There has never been a player blocked on the run more.

Amen to this. The amount of times he gets shoved off, run off, or outright blocked is ridiculous - and we almost never get a penalty for it either.

(This did lead to a really hilarious try against the Rabbitohs in the tail end of 2016 when on the kick, the Rabbits were so busy trying to run Croker off the ball, that they completely forgot about Edrick Lee.)

Even last night, on one of the kicks there was an outright wall formed, three Bulldogs standing shoulder to shoulder and not even trying to do anything other than be a wall, but of course no penalty.

[RedRaider]

Do it for the team JC. If Sezer can be moved from the halves to hooker, surely a move from centre to wing would be less of a sea change. On the wing you have the defenders best friend, the sideline, as an unflinching compatriot.

[CJR]

How many wingers have been captains?


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[yurithe1]

Wasn't Nightingale the Dragons' captain at one stage?

[Finchy]

He’s had a couple of acrobatic put-downs from big leaps

Hurt himself (shoulders?) when doing them too, from memory.

[LastRaider]

How many wingers have been captains?


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Good point, so I think it’s time now we look at appointing Hodgson as Co-Captain.


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[gangrenous]

Sure, let’s appoint a guy who’s out injured currently with an ACL, which some guys never recover from properly.

No thanks. He’s back and performing as expected before it’s even a consideration.

[BadnMean]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

I don't see anything wrong at all with his leaping, sliding and spatial awareness/co-ordination. I've no doubt with a few weeks of the trampoline training they do he'd pick it up. Except this is the GH where you have to be perfect at everything straight away and Cotric will never be a passing fullback because of one game where he played really well actually :/

[gangrenous]

Amen BnM.

Another nail you’ve smashed square in the head.

[twistedbydesign]

I don't really think there's a big question mark against whether Croker can be a good winger, rather it's whether or not he's better there than in the centres. The attributes he showed to score a couple of tries last Thursday are things he has shown in the centres also, just Sezer hasn't always been as accurate with his kicking and sadly we don't get to play the Bulldogs' woefully-positioned back 3 every week.

For mine he's still better off in the 3 jersey. With the assumption that Wighton won't be around much longer I don't see any scenario in which Croker is permanently moved from his left-centre role.

[raiderskater]

Yeah, the Sezer-Croker combination has had plenty of tries like that before while Croker was playing centre, so I'm not sure it really means a move would be necessary.

[DarkRaider]

I don’t mind the idea not because I think he’ll necessarily be a better winger than centre but simply because it would allow Cotric and Wighton to play at 1 and 3 or vice versa and seamlessly switch them as required during a match.

For example Wighton could defend at left centre most of the time shoring up that edge defence, Cotric could spend a bunch of time at the back developing in the position and getting plenty of involvement. But then Jack could jump in at fullback if Nic needs a breather or to run some of those edge plays that Wighton typically executes really well, or even just to mix things up for the opposition.

I think it could play to the strengths of all 3 of Croker, Cotric and Wighton.

[Matt]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

I don't see anything wrong at all with his leaping, sliding and spatial awareness/co-ordination. I've no doubt with a few weeks of the trampoline training they do he'd pick it up. Except this is the GH where you have to be perfect at everything straight away and Cotric will never be a passing fullback because of one game where he played really well actually :/

Its not 1 game in his career though. Its 1 game in the NRL. He was played FB in Jr grades, of which is a larger part of his career to date. Hell, he has probably played more centre than FB too. Anyone who has watched more than just the NRL has seen him play, and his game hasn't changed. He has always been a big, fast, strong kid, the only thing is, and since coming into the NRL, his maturity beyond his years, proves his class, which is why many believe he looks like he could well be a superstar.

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

[edwahu]

Cotric was a center in the U20s, except at rep level where he killed it.

[Johno]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Lolohea is a liability over the course of a season, takes so many poor choices.

[Wiki Special]

How many wingers have been captains?


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Ziggy Niszczot captained Souths from the wing in the 80's.

[Wiki Special]

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Matt, I agree with your general opinion on the evolution of Fullback play over the last 10 years or so. I disagree with the bolded part however. I feel it is more coaching than what those mentioned players do that has changed things. Slater and Boyd particularly were not natural ball players when they came into the NRL. In fact early career Slater when he was a centre was a poor passser.

Cotric is certainly looking like centre is his best position but no reason a quality player with his desire to improve can't develop those aspects of his game like his predecessors.

[Relax-init]

The one area I can't imagine Croker would be much use at is the whole diving finish thing that wingers have perfected these last few years. Could be a deal breaker.

I agree. Toots is a good finisher, but I don't think he has that gymnastic-like athleticism that most wingers have these days. They're really good at being able to contort their bodies, and do acrobatic leaps to get the ball down inside the corner post.

Doesn't mean Croker couldn't be a very adequate winger and score plenty of tries. He just may miss a few opportunities that more athletic wingers could have scored.

Nothing he couldn't learn - they do train specifically for this with gym mats etc.

That’s right. Get Cap onto a trampoline and tell him to get practising.

Is there a Flipout world in Canberra he can go to?

Yep Flipout is in Mitchell. About 10 minute drive from the training ground.

[Matt]

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Matt, I agree with your general opinion on the evolution of Fullback play over the last 10 years or so. I disagree with the bolded part however. I feel it is more coaching than what those mentioned players do that has changed things. Slater and Boyd particularly were not natural ball players when they came into the NRL. In fact early career Slater when he was a centre was a poor passser.

Cotric is certainly looking like centre is his best position but no reason a quality player with his desire to improve can't develop those aspects of his game like his predecessors.

Like the other 2 of the Big 3, U know Slater didnt play his current position as a young man. Cam was a half that moved to hooker. Cronk was a hooker that moved to half. Slater was a 5/8 come centre as a young man, bit like Jack. Limited ball play, but better than none.

As a side note, GI was a fullback, who got moved to centre, before 5/8 and FB.

[BadnMean]

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Matt, I agree with your general opinion on the evolution of Fullback play over the last 10 years or so. I disagree with the bolded part however. I feel it is more coaching than what those mentioned players do that has changed things. Slater and Boyd particularly were not natural ball players when they came into the NRL. In fact early career Slater when he was a centre was a poor passser.

Cotric is certainly looking like centre is his best position but no reason a quality player with his desire to improve can't develop those aspects of his game like his predecessors.

Basically my opinion too @Matt

[edwahu]

Lockyer moved from FB to 5/8th but I can't think of many others. I also think the ball playing of most fullbacks is overstated, as the game is mostly one dimensional compared to the past. I mean Boyd's ball playing is basically catching and passing in the same old out back sweep play every week. Cliffy Lyons they are not.

[Roger Kenworthy]

Lockyer moved from FB to 5/8th but I can't think of many others. I also think the ball playing of most fullbacks is overstated, as the game is mostly one dimensional compared to the past. I mean Boyd's ball playing is basically catching and passing in the same old out back sweep play every week. Cliffy Lyons they are not.

Agree. I'd rate Wighton's ball playing at a decent level. Levels above RTS, for instance. This does not make him a better fullback than RTS by any stretch, as the defence and positioning RTS displays week in and week out make up for his lack of ball playing tenfold.

[BJ]

Lockyer moved from FB to 5/8th but I can't think of many others. I also think the ball playing of most fullbacks is overstated, as the game is mostly one dimensional compared to the past. I mean Boyd's ball playing is basically catching and passing in the same old out back sweep play every week. Cliffy Lyons they are not.

Agree. I'd rate Wighton's ball playing at a decent level. Levels above RTS, for instance. This does not make him a better fullback than RTS by any stretch, as the defence and positioning RTS displays week in and week out make up for his lack of ball playing tenfold.

Wighton has difficulty straightening his attacking line and therefore is not able to pass back on the inside when he gets the ball in hand.

He is one of the better fullbacks for putting his winger away with a good pass, but he can be a bit of a one trick pony always heading out wide on each sweep. Look at how well Slater can go wide, straight or inside.

[Coastalraider]

Lockyer moved from FB to 5/8th but I can't think of many others. I also think the ball playing of most fullbacks is overstated, as the game is mostly one dimensional compared to the past. I mean Boyd's ball playing is basically catching and passing in the same old out back sweep play every week. Cliffy Lyons they are not.

Agree. I'd rate Wighton's ball playing at a decent level. Levels above RTS, for instance. This does not make him a better fullback than RTS by any stretch, as the defence and positioning RTS displays week in and week out make up for his lack of ball playing tenfold.

Wighton has difficulty straightening his attacking line and therefore is not able to pass back on the inside when he gets the ball in hand.

He is one of the better fullbacks for putting his winger away with a good pass, but he can be a bit of a one trick pony always heading out wide on each sweep. Look at how well Slater can go wide, straight or inside.

Yep, thats fair, he can put away a winger, pick a gap, but he regularly runs his outside men out of room as well. Getting him to straighten his runs would open up so many possibilities, especially with the strength of our edges.

[The Nickman]

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Matt, I agree with your general opinion on the evolution of Fullback play over the last 10 years or so. I disagree with the bolded part however. I feel it is more coaching than what those mentioned players do that has changed things. Slater and Boyd particularly were not natural ball players when they came into the NRL. In fact early career Slater when he was a centre was a poor passser.

Cotric is certainly looking like centre is his best position but no reason a quality player with his desire to improve can't develop those aspects of his game like his predecessors.

Like the other 2 of the Big 3, U know Slater didnt play his current position as a young man. Cam was a half that moved to hooker. Cronk was a hooker that moved to half. Slater was a 5/8 come centre as a young man, bit like Jack. Limited ball play, but better than none.

As a side note, GI was a fullback, who got moved to centre, before 5/8 and FB.

Cronk was actually a centre, but your point is spot on.

[The Nickman]

That doesn't change the fact that in the current game, elite FBs are ball players. Yes, some of the current guys have had to learn the skill, but that's also because this has only changed in the last 5yrs. The likes of Slater, Inglis and Boyd made it so. In previous generations the FBs with ball skills moved to 5/8 - like Lockyer. These days its almost the opposite, so guys like Trbojevic, Mbye, Lolohea and even Jack all played halves in the junior grades.

Maybe Cotric can learn, but off what I've seen, he is more likely to be an elite centre. Without wanting to put a mocker on the kid, but lets face it, Im not the 1st, he could well be as influential a centre as Mal himself.

Matt, I agree with your general opinion on the evolution of Fullback play over the last 10 years or so. I disagree with the bolded part however. I feel it is more coaching than what those mentioned players do that has changed things. Slater and Boyd particularly were not natural ball players when they came into the NRL. In fact early career Slater when he was a centre was a poor passser.

Cotric is certainly looking like centre is his best position but no reason a quality player with his desire to improve can't develop those aspects of his game like his predecessors.

Like the other 2 of the Big 3, U know Slater didnt play his current position as a young man. Cam was a half that moved to hooker. Cronk was a hooker that moved to half. Slater was a 5/8 come centre as a young man, bit like Jack. Limited ball play, but better than none.

As a side note, GI was a fullback, who got moved to centre, before 5/8 and FB.

Cronk was actually a centre, but your point is spot on.

[KingDynamite]

Croker can’t be a winger due to poor kick returns. He’s fine in the attacking 20. Other than that he would be a poor choice for a winger.