My suspension from League Unlimited

Suggestions or questions relating to The Greenhouse

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My suspension from League Unlimited

Post by Canberra Milk »

legend wrote: Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:55 pm

You've been suspended from the front row forums indefinitely for spamming. You knew the score and continued to do the wrong thing. LU is not a vehicle for you to recruit members to this forum. Do the hard yakka yourself and earn your stripes like everyone else.

Any issues, e-mail forums@leagueunlimited.com.
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Forum administrators,

I just recieved a PM informing me that I have been suspended indefintely from the Front Row forums. Ironically, the PM was sent via the very site I got pinned for spamming about. I write to inform of you at my strong objection to this suspension, particularly the fact that it's for an indefinite period of time. I have made a total of 3,181 posts at League Unlimited since July 2004, at 11.83 per day, participate in the Forum 7's competition, which I think I can say without arrogance that I have been quite successful in. These points noted, I think I have reason to consider myself a valued poster at the Front Row Forums. In the PM I received, legend said "Do the hard yakka yourself and earn your stripes like everyone else." Well, to be quite honest, I think i have earnt my stripes, I have contributed a lot to the forums over the past 10 months, particularly the Canberra Raiders forum.

The reason given for my suspension was that I was "spamming", legend adding that "You knew the score and continued to do the wrong thing. LU is not a vehicle for you to recruit members to this forum." Whilst I admit to "knowing the score", and I certainly knew that I was doing, I would like to put forward my side of the case: I had been posting at both the Greenhouse and League Unlimited, none any more than the other, and as is normal when both deal with the same topic, sometimes the other forum would come up in conversation, usually something like "At League Unlimited someone posted this, etc". I'll be honest, I was fed up at the seemingly high level of immaturity shown by the people at LU for refusing to allow it's posters to acknowledge the existence of another forum. The Greenhouse often mentions League Unlimited, particularly seeing as though its administrator is captain of the Raiders Forum 7's team.

My mentioning of the Greenhouse at LU was not a piece of spamming, but an expression of frustration, perhaps even an act of revolt, that such a closely related website was not allowed to be mentioned in any post. There are a number of posts still up at the Canberra Raiders forum where in normal situations the Greenhouse would have been mentioned in passing, not as an act of spamming but necessity, and instead it had to be vaguely alluded to due to fear of suspension for mentioning it. I agree that the two forums got off on a bad foot, but it's a few months on, and just about all active members of the Greennhouse are also regular posters at LU, besides of course fellow suspendees.

My claim is that I did not engage in spamming, but rather mentioned the Greenhouse in a neutral fashion as a natural response. I have done the same thing regarding League Unlimited on the Greenhouse on a number of occasions, and there was never a question raised as to whether I was "spamming", or using the Greenhouse to recruit members for LU. This to me is the sensible way to run a forum.

I would appreciate a reply to this email which points directly to the post, or posts, that got me suspended, as well as a notification of the length of my suspension, in order to keep me from being stuck in limbo as I am now. A poster of my reputation and history of posting does not deserve to be caught in such a state of affairs.

Yours sincerely,

Kristopher Karp, aka Kris_man.

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I'm not gonna write any more, 'cos I just spent 45 minutes writing that, and it sums up my reaction to the suspension.

I apologise to Raider_69 for letting the Forum 7's team down. Feel free to post the article I wrote under someone else's ID (although given the reaction to the article, I'm not expexting that to happen :lol: )
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Post by Nick »

Dont worry K Man, i think its a bit stiff but meh
in a week or so send them an email saying although you disgaree you understand their guidelines and will abid by them and you'll be right :)
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Post by Inactive »

Do you want my opinion K_Man ... :lol: :lol:

Seriously I would not have bothered with the email .... spamming Bull ... nature will take care of itself .... why cant they understand that.

Cant wait till R69 is banned ... now that'll place a real dent in the posting thier posting count ... If I knew his password I'd get in there and do one on him. :lol: :lol:

This forum has a wide variety of views on all things Raiders. We also keep ourselves informed of world events, others sports and Raiderettes. What more could you want. :lol:
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Post by legend »

On the contrary Bay, if nature takes care of itself this place will struggle to survive as the only way new members are finding out about this place is through spamming via LU.

You've destroyed the raiders debate page with incessant spamming and left unchecked, there would be no hesitation in doing the same with the LU Raiders forum.
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Post by Sasha »

On a different note I just noticed that we have a link on the links page of www.raiderarmy.com, this URL will be on the back of our army shirts which will ready today for the roosters match :)
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Post by Nick »

Bay56 wrote:Cant wait till R69 is banned ... now that'll place a real dent in the posting thier posting count ... If I knew his password I'd get in there and do one on him. :lol: :lol:
Dont think about it bay ;)
im hell bent on taking the 7's crown this year
and i recon we can do it, if only myself and the team will avoid the judicary, a team of rubin wiki's :lol:
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Post by paulquinn49 »

legend wrote:On the contrary Bay, if nature takes care of itself this place will struggle to survive as the only way new members are finding out about this place is through spamming via LU

Truth be told captain the people that came here from LU wanted to be here. A few have even said they read LU all the time but didnt want to contribute but now find themselves enjoying their time here... and actually posting.

Yes most of our members came from LU but in no way did they come here kicking and screaming. Maybe out of joy but not disappointment.

We also have got members from Rleague (Another Rugby League forum, not sure if you have heard of it though. (www.rleague.com)

A few of the members have come from places you have never heard of aswell.

Struggle to survive? Bull we own LU for Raiders fans, we own it for posts.

Please do go over your little site and see who has more posts about the Raiders from the start of January till now and ill think youll find that you only come here out of desperation to promote your site. We have 6295 posts by the way just on Raiders.

To suggest the only way people find out about The Greenhouse (premier Raiders forum in the land) is through LU is as sensible as me saying that the only way people find out about LU is through gay bars.


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Post by greeneyed »

Legend... good to see you are getting your post count up over here!

Given your stance, it is a bit ironic that you are using PM's at the Greenhouse to advise people that you are suspending them from your site. If we applied your own rules over here, you would probably be banned for spamming about LU via PMs.... You might want to consider that.

We of course wouldn't be looking to do such a thing, as we are quite happy for other forums to be mentioned.
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Post by Inactive »

legend wrote:On the contrary Bay, if nature takes care of itself this place will struggle to survive as the only way new members are finding out about this place is through spamming via LU.

You've destroyed the raiders debate page with incessant spamming and left unchecked, there would be no hesitation in doing the same with the LU Raiders forum.
Legend ... I wont justify your comments with a lengthy assessment of how ridiculous your assumption is ... talk about having tickets on yourself.

Maybe you should PM all members at LU warning them that if they post here they will be automically banned from LU.

As I said before buddy "what goes around comes around".
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Post by Greenblooded »

legend wrote:On the contrary Bay, if nature takes care of itself this place will struggle to survive as the only way new members are finding out about this place is through spamming via LU.

You've destroyed the raiders debate page with incessant spamming and left unchecked, there would be no hesitation in doing the same with the LU Raiders forum.
Legend, I normally have a far bit of time for you but now you're just being ridiculous, "struggle to survive"??? in what way? no one is leaving once they join. As for destroying the raiders debate page because of spamming, what a load of rubbish, the only reason that page is now crap is because most of the old members are posting here.
I think you need to get over yourself mate.
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Post by Butters »

Why can't we just get along? :lol:

On a serious note Legend, we are all happy for LU to be mentioned in the Greenhouse. Most users, including my self, spend time also posting at LU in both the Raiders and other forums including the Entertainment, Computer Games and NRL forums. League Unlimited is still a great Rugby League forum and I, for one, still appreciate the time and effort you put in to such a site. Let us get past these childish games and work together to spread news about the Canberra Raiders and bring Raiders supporters from around the world together.

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Post by Canberra Milk »

League Unlimited wrote:You may be a valued member of your forums Sevens team and may have made over 3,000 posts, but I have been reliably informed that you were bragging about your spamming and I have been following the member flow from LU to the Greenhouse and whilst you may hold both in equal standing, I'm 100% certain almost all the members at the greenhouse originated from LU and not through word of mouth, reciprocal links, advertising etc. So, in light of all this, your case about mentioning LU at the greenhouse has no foundation in my
opinion.

We are not a vehicle for the greenhouse to recruit members so please don't pontificate about being hard done by and the reason people get suspended is because you and like minded others such as Paul Quinn actively promoted spamming as an act of defiance towards us. I have no problem assisting fledgling forums find their feet but it has to be a mutual agreement that works both ways and in this case, all the benefit goes to the greenhouse with the LU Raiders forum decimated as a result. I am merely protecting the interests of my site which we pour thousands of hours into each year and as it stands, we get about ten new members a day without spamming whereas the Greenhouse currently has 85 with 90-95% of those members coming from LU.

I also know you are not the only one spamming and the reason we cracked down is because a lot of members were spamming via pm after we requested them not to but we were ignored, hence the reason we cracked down on any mention of the greenhouse.

To be honest, we were fed up with the high level of immaturity shown by the members of the greenhouse.

I also know the spamming became more sophisticated such as asking members for their MSN address via pm. It is the deceit and underhanded behaviour that left us no alternative but to review our policy on advertising rival forums and deleting all "hostile" links in posts, banners, sig files etc.

E-mail us at the same address on May 9th and we'll review the situation but if we see whinging on the greenhouse as to why you've been suspended, then it will be made permanent.

regards

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Post by Canberra Milk »

League Unlimited wrote:You may be a valued member of your forums Sevens team and may have made over 3,000 posts, but I have been reliably informed that you were bragging about your spamming and I have been following the member flow from LU to the Greenhouse and whilst you may hold both in equal standing, I'm 100% certain almost all the members at the greenhouse originated from LU and not through word of mouth, reciprocal links, advertising etc. So, in light of all this, your case about mentioning LU at the greenhouse has no foundation in my
opinion.
Oh, intriguing. I wonder who passed on that information? :roll: As has been stated before by other people, please do not claim that all the members of the Greenhouse "originated from LU". As you know very well, many of the members of the LU Raiders forum met in the early days of Rleague, and had already formed an on-line community of their own well before the emergence of the Front Row Forums.
League Unlimited wrote:We are not a vehicle for the greenhouse to recruit members so please don't pontificate about being hard done by and the reason people get suspended is because you and like minded others such as Paul Quinn actively promoted spamming as an act of defiance towards us. I have no problem assisting fledgling forums find their feet but it has to be a mutual agreement that works both ways and in this case, all the benefit goes to the greenhouse with the LU Raiders forum decimated as a result. I am merely protecting the interests of my site which we pour thousands of hours into each year and as it stands, we get about ten new members a day without spamming whereas the Greenhouse currently has 85 with 90-95% of those members coming from LU.
Incredible that you make it out that we are the ones "decimating" your forums, considering we actually talk about your forum, we acknowledge its existence, yet you don't allow either. It seems you're the ones who are trying to decimate the Greenhouse, not vice versa. Besides, to claim that the Raiders forum at LU has been decimated is absurd, as plenty of people post there, most of them regulars at the Greenhouse!
League Unlimited wrote:I also know you are not the only one spamming and the reason we cracked down is because a lot of members were spamming via pm after we requested them not to but we were ignored, hence the reason we cracked down on any mention of the greenhouse.
We ignored it as an act of defiance, civil disobedience if you will, because the rule that we may not PM other member about the Greenhouse was absurd.
League Unlimited wrote:To be honest, we were fed up with the high level of immaturity shown by the members of the greenhouse.

I also know the spamming became more sophisticated such as asking members for their MSN address via pm. It is the deceit and underhanded behaviour that left us no alternative but to review our policy on advertising rival forums and deleting all "hostile" links in posts, banners, sig files etc.
It didn't start as "deceit and underhanded behaviour" by any means. You know this as well as I do, so don't try to pretend that it is the reason for your stern action. We were forced to take such measures after the high level of immaturity, and perhaps plain jealousy, that was shown in preventing us from PM'ing other members in regards to the Greenhouse.
League Unlimited wrote:E-mail us at the same address on May 9th and we'll review the situation but if we see whinging on the greenhouse as to why you've been suspended, then it will be made permanent.
This comment just takes the cake, and it is the reason I posted the reply here instead of replying personally. If you see whinging on the Greenhouse?! How dare you! It is incredibly insulting that you feel you are able to judge my punishment by what I write on another forum. Even if my suspension was valid, to claim that I'm not entitled to express my frustration or opposition about it is disgraceful.

I think you guys have missed the point altogether - the forums are about the posters. They are the be-all and end-all of any forum, not the admin, as you seem to think. The admin are simply there to provide service to the posters, at least in a broad sense. Through your incredibly arrogant behaviour you have lost another poster. Do not expect a reply e-mail on May 9th.
League Unlimited wrote:regards

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Post by Greenblooded »

E-mail us at the same address on May 9th and we'll review the situation but if we see whinging on the greenhouse as to why you've been suspended, then it will be made permanent.
What a ridiculous statement, do you also want Kris to carry around a tape recorder to see if he says anything that you regard as derogatory towards LU :doubt:
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Post by Inactive »

K_Man .. when I was "whingeing" about my dismissal I had the support of only a few ... you were not one.

Now you might have a better appreiciation of what I was dealing with and the reasons why I would under no circumstances emaill for re-admission.

I am not going to preach to you on what I think you should do. I'll let you decide on that.

Others can also make up their own minds as to what forum they want to post at ... I know where I'll be.

Ii'm taking a few stats on LU atm and will keep you guys up to date.
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Post by Inactive »

As a moderator of this forum (not an adminsitrator) I would like to make a brief comment on this matter.

I think the treatment handed out to K_Man (and myself fo that matter) is the kind of childish behaviour I'd expect from the kid who took his proverbial bat and ball home.

I was PM'd by LU admin and told that they had the means of promoting themselves and we did not, and that therefore, once the season started, their posting numbers would increase at our expense.

We are told that our only opportunity for promotion is LU and that without the existence of that forum we would not survive.

This existence of this forum will eventually find it's way to every Raiders supporter who likes to discuss football issues with or without the existence of LU.

I encourage all of you who still can to send a PM to LU admin voicing your disgust at K_Man's dismissal and the childish behaviour they have exhibited since the established this forum ... THE PREMIER RAIDERS FORUM in the world.
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Post by Inactive »

Btw I predicted less that a week ago that GH would hit the 20,000 posting mark by the 15th ... I might revise that to the 14th ... thanks for the extra traffic Legend :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Canberra Milk »

Bay56 wrote:K_Man .. when I was "whingeing" about my dismissal I had the support of only a few ... you were not one.
Well, thanks for your support anyway :lol:
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Post by Inactive »

Kris_man wrote:
Bay56 wrote:K_Man .. when I was "whingeing" about my dismissal I had the support of only a few ... you were not one.
Well, thanks for your support anyway :lol:
No probs mate

Another suggestion to all who post on LU is that they call their hand and boycott posting there till May 9th :lol:
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Post by GreenGuy »

I think i'm going to avoid LU a bit more after reading all that.
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Post by Inactive »

GreenGuy wrote:I think i'm going to avoid LU a bit more after reading all that.
As I said, if we all took this attitude (including you R69) we'd go part way to making sure that those in power respect the little man.
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Post by Roger Kenworthy »

I'll try not to post till May 9th.
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Post by Inactive »

what pisses me right off is when people post here only when the other forum is down































:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by greeneyed »

I'm sure LU is never "down" Bay...... and we don't worry about people posting here whenever they like :)
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Post by Inactive »

greeneyed wrote:I'm sure LU is never "down" Bay...... and we don't worry about people posting here whenever they like :)
yea sure greeneyed ... not down :lol: :lol: :lol:

well sometimes I click on that forum "critical error' but it takes me no place :lol: :lol:
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Post by paulquinn49 »

Kristo copped some pretty harsh words there ay. Why do you think because he posts here he is spamming LU about The Greenhouse (premier Raiders forum in the land)
League Unlimited wrote:You may be a valued member of your forums Sevens team and may have made over 3,000 posts, but I have been reliably informed that you were bragging about your spamming
Yeah ill give you that, when I went out on Friday night to Platform 26 at Central I heard some guy bragging about stealing members from LU. Wasnt going to say anything but now that you caught him its fair game. Sorry Kristo :(
League Unlimited wrote:I'm 100% certain almost all the members at the greenhouse originated from LU and not through word of mouth, reciprocal links, advertising etc.
Yes. Word of mouth was used to recruit. As said before members also came from www.rleague.com, other places, MSN and we are in Google and Yahoo search engines. Maybe more . Plus people who have never posted at your site but read for a long time. Wonder why they never contributed?


League Unlimited wrote:I am merely protecting the interests of my site which we pour thousands of hours into each year and as it stands, we get about ten new members a day without spamming whereas the Greenhouse currently has 85 with 90-95% of those members coming from LU.
I dont think LU even has 50 Raiders fans to be honest. We have 80. I spose we stole good honest LU Roosters fans and converted them to make up the 400% or whatever percentage it is now.

League Unlimited wrote:We are not a vehicle for the greenhouse to recruit members so please don't pontificate about being hard done by and the reason people get suspended is because you and like minded others such as Paul Quinn actively promoted spamming as an act of defiance towards us.
Thanks for the mention. Who wouldnt promote SPAM. I love it... get your Spiced Ham today, its great :thumbsup
League Unlimited wrote:I have no problem assisting fledgling forums find their feet but it has to be a mutual agreement that works both ways and in this case, all the benefit goes to the greenhouse with the LU Raiders forum decimated as a result.
Thats fine with me, you never tried to make an agreement or work with us. Of course its being decimated, people dont want to say the same thing twice and we have more people to discuss the issue with here. I guess you could say we are the premier Raiders forum in the land.

League Unlimited wrote:I also know you are not the only one spamming and the reason we cracked down is because a lot of members were spamming via pm after we requested them not to but we were ignored, hence the reason we cracked down on any mention of the greenhouse.
a lot? Ill put my hand, im not sure if you know this... I spammed :shock:

But I was the only one, I PM'ed about 5 people. 2 people asked for the link so of course being the kind lady I am, gave them the link. I guess they joined cause they liked the site?

I have a few of these Greenhouse clowns on my MSN, about 50. You honestly dont believe they all came from LU do you? Not even 10 of them did.
League Unlimited wrote:To be honest, we were fed up with the high level of immaturity shown by the members of the greenhouse.
So they arent your members anymore? I spose only the good ones are :lol:
League Unlimited wrote:I also know the spamming became more sophisticated such as asking members for their MSN address via pm
Thats what I did. Those Iraqis taught us such methods, we are now a very sophisticated, well oiled spamming machine. Hey Legend whats your email addy?


League Unlimited wrote:regards
More lies
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Post by Canberra Milk »

:toofunny :toofunny Absolute gold, Quinny. And like all good humour, it's funny 'cos it's true.
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Post by Nick »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
good work quinny, some of your best

but let me say this, for anyone doing spamming on LU, please stop, we have 85 members and about 50 strong posting members, and about 20 more that read often with little comment (which is cool too), we dont need to boys and girls, we got links on several search engines etc

we are fine :)
Kris i hope you do get reinstated to LU as you are a vital member of the forum 7's team, if you get suspended our numbers drop to 8 which means we may have to start recruiting outside the raiders members as we've exhusted all other options
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Post by Inactive »

R69 support your fellow GH members and dont post at LU until May 9th .... ha I can see the monthly posting graph take a sudden dip :lol:
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Post by thickos »

Deadset quinny you are kidding if you only think there is 50 Raiders fans at LU. The Raiders community over there is one of the biggest club forums on the whole site.

I don't see the need for all this one-upmanship... both forums can and will happily co-exist. This thread however is another disappointing chapter in the greenhouse's history...
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Post by Canberra Milk »

thickos wrote:Deadset quinny you are kidding if you only think there is 50 Raiders fans at LU. The Raiders community over there is one of the biggest club forums on the whole site.

I don't see the need for all this one-upmanship... both forums can and will happily co-exist. This thread however is another disappointing chapter in the greenhouse's history...
Wrong. This is another disappointing chapter in Legaue Unlimited's history.
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Post by paulquinn49 »

Where are they all then Stu? Jed's 25 characters dont count.
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Post by Canberra Milk »

paulquinn49 wrote:Where are they all then Stu? Jed's 25 characters dont count.
:lol: :lol:
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Post by Inactive »

thickos wrote:Deadset quinny you are kidding if you only think there is 50 Raiders fans at LU. The Raiders community over there is one of the biggest club forums on the whole site.

I don't see the need for all this one-upmanship... both forums can and will happily co-exist. This thread however is another disappointing chapter in the greenhouse's history...
Fair dinkum thickos ... most of the time I consider you to be a very reasonable person but comments such as that get up my back pretty quickly.
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Post by Inactive »

Is this what you mean thickos
legend wrote:On the contrary Bay, if nature takes care of itself this place will struggle to survive as the only way new members are finding out about this place is through spamming via LU.

You've destroyed the raiders debate page with incessant spamming and left unchecked, there would be no hesitation in doing the same with the LU Raiders forum.
biggest load of Bull I've read on this thread.
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