Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

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Botman
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Botman »

MrPosh wrote: December 16, 2021, 7:49 am Genuine question, here, but does a player's contract value have to be paid? Could a player opt to forego some salary in order to secure a move they want?

For example, let's say Hodgson is on $900k for his final year at Canberra.

If he opted to sign for Parra for $600k for three years - because he's happier exchanging the lower salary for three years of security. If that starts immediately - and all parties are happy (and I get the point that in most cases the player probably wouldn't be) can that $300k be written off or is there a salary cap obligation.
Theoretically, yes.
If both parties agree to terms to dissolve the contract with no on going payments, then yeah that's a mutual agreement to terminate a contract and that's the end of that.

The problem is in practicality, in this circumstance (so ill use your figures) Josh Hodgson already has 3 years of stability locked in, 1x 900k from the Raiders and 2x 600k from the Eels. Grand total of 2.1 million
Should he agree to walk away without another cent from the raiders to take up 3x 600k, that's 1.8m
Why would he give $300k away? That's why freight is always part of the deals.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by simo »

Botman wrote: December 16, 2021, 8:47 am
MrPosh wrote: December 16, 2021, 7:49 am Genuine question, here, but does a player's contract value have to be paid? Could a player opt to forego some salary in order to secure a move they want?

For example, let's say Hodgson is on $900k for his final year at Canberra.

If he opted to sign for Parra for $600k for three years - because he's happier exchanging the lower salary for three years of security. If that starts immediately - and all parties are happy (and I get the point that in most cases the player probably wouldn't be) can that $300k be written off or is there a salary cap obligation.
Theoretically, yes.
If both parties agree to terms to dissolve the contract with no on going payments, then yeah that's a mutual agreement to terminate a contract and that's the end of that.

The problem is in practicality, in this circumstance (so ill use your figures) Josh Hodgson already has 3 years of stability locked in, 1x 900k from the Raiders and 2x 600k from the Eels. Grand total of 2.1 million
Should he agree to walk away without another cent from the raiders to take up 3x 600k, that's 1.8m
Why would he give $300k away? That's why freight is always part of the deals.
Unless it was a situation where he wouldnt get the further 2 years if he didnt join them this year. Then hey moght forgo the 300k to lock in the extra 2 years of 600k
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Botman »

simo wrote: December 16, 2021, 9:36 am
Botman wrote: December 16, 2021, 8:47 am
MrPosh wrote: December 16, 2021, 7:49 am Genuine question, here, but does a player's contract value have to be paid? Could a player opt to forego some salary in order to secure a move they want?

For example, let's say Hodgson is on $900k for his final year at Canberra.

If he opted to sign for Parra for $600k for three years - because he's happier exchanging the lower salary for three years of security. If that starts immediately - and all parties are happy (and I get the point that in most cases the player probably wouldn't be) can that $300k be written off or is there a salary cap obligation.
Theoretically, yes.
If both parties agree to terms to dissolve the contract with no on going payments, then yeah that's a mutual agreement to terminate a contract and that's the end of that.

The problem is in practicality, in this circumstance (so ill use your figures) Josh Hodgson already has 3 years of stability locked in, 1x 900k from the Raiders and 2x 600k from the Eels. Grand total of 2.1 million
Should he agree to walk away without another cent from the raiders to take up 3x 600k, that's 1.8m
Why would he give $300k away? That's why freight is always part of the deals.
Unless it was a situation where he wouldnt get the further 2 years if he didnt join them this year. Then hey moght forgo the 300k to lock in the extra 2 years of 600k
Yeah if the Eels said the deal was 2022-23 only and they werent interested beyond, then maybe he'd rather lock in the 1.2 mil over 2, over the 900k over 1.
But that's a fair conservative move, and short of an injury, he'd probably back himself to get a deal somewhere for the 600k, so probably just play out the 1 year. But definitely that situation would give a player some cause to pause and think that decision through
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by gergreg »

Salty Eels fans would remind us all of the time where - I think it was either Hayne or Folau - had agreed to terms but the NRL decided the contract value was below market value and refused to sign off on the deal.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

gergreg wrote:Salty Eels fans would remind us all of the time where - I think it was either Hayne or Folau - had agreed to terms but the NRL decided the contract value was below market value and refused to sign off on the deal.
Yeah that was Folau. Then they allowed Gasnier to come back to the Dragons on a $90k deal or something crazy like that.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by greeneyed »

Josh Hodgson’s Raiders career has been under constant speculation but the hooker is staying put in 2022

From speculation about his playing future at Canberra to talk of early releases, Raiders hooker Josh Hodgson has seen all the headlines. The most recent rumour to do the rounds had Hodgson joining his nephews Bailey and Jaylen at Newcastle as an immediate replacement for an injured Jayden Brailey.

“I’ve had more links than a gold chain recently”, Hodgson said. “There’s nothing in it, no. You always want to leave on a high and my ultimate goal is that you always want to win the competition,” Hodgson said.

Read more: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 2ad2c42b20
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Re: Free to leave: Wests Tigers to offer Raiders star Josh Hodgson two-year deal

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: November 15, 2021, 9:39 am
Botman wrote: November 15, 2021, 7:05 am
afgtnk wrote: November 14, 2021, 10:47 pm
Botman wrote: November 14, 2021, 9:53 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 14, 2021, 9:38 pm I guess we will see. I’m not convinced about the suddenly acquired great negotiation skills of the Tigers.
You dont need great negotiation skills here. Just read the papers, understand what the player agent is telling you and hold your ground. That's it. You or i could be doing this deal for the tigers and it'd be fine... the negotations to this point have pretty much been this:

Raiderss: Sorry, we're going to keep Josh unless you up your offer on freight
Tigers: No worries, the deal is firm at 500k, let us know when you're ready to do the deal.

Raiders: No deal, we'll just keep him then.
Tigers: No worries. Let us know if you change your mind

Raiders: *weeks later* just so you know, we'll really keep him unless you up the offer!
Tigers: OK.

Raiders: *weeks later* No, seriously
Tigers: Sure, if you want to keep him, we wish you and him the best of luck in 2022.

Raiders: ...

Raiders: ....

Raiders: .... We'll REALLY keep him! We will!
Tigers: No worries. 500k, the deal is firm.

The tigers management appear to mostly incompetent but there is no reason to believe if they havent folded 3 months into this rumour which has been solidly reported that they are firm on 500k, that that'll suddenly wake up tomorrow and panic... it could happen but the raiders hanging on to him until march and having him involved in pre season, to save 100k of cap space over a single year would be the dumbest **** **** they could do.

Either the club is serious about playing this contract out and they should close down negotiations. Or take the deal and move on. Those are their options.
That'd be fine.... if it were a Curtis Scott level player we're talking about here.

This is Josh Hodgson. Leader, highly experienced international, potential game changer, a guy who can rise the tide for all the boats, who was absolutely instrumental in turning around our fortunes on the field. They don't grow on trees. The Tigers haven't made the finals for a decade, and Maguire and Pascoe are hanging onto their jobs by a thread, with the pressure of Sydney's media on them.

Let's not pretend they hold all the cards here, because they don't. They will have a level of desperation, which should duly be exploited.
That’s clearly not how this club sees him anymore. Otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to shove him out the door.

The tigers know this too.

And what do we say to that?
“Oh we’re only releasing him because he and the coach don’t get along. He’s still a great player!”

And the response? “Oh so this player is such a problem that even though he’s great you want him out? Why would we pay more freight than we’re comfortable with for another problem like BJ?”

There is no way to spin this where the raiders hold the cards unless we are truly willing to walk away from negotiations and tell Josh to saddle up for 2022 in Canberra.

I don’t believe the club is willing to do that.
Yup. You could list down Steve Walters credentials, there's a reason teams aren't paying him 600k to come in and play next season. The credentials don't match the output.
We were right here pignickrainbowtickbotman, and opposition clubs were right to stand their ground on a one year rental of Hodgo.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Botman »

Well i wouldnt say i was THAT right :lol:

I was fairly confident he wouldn't be here this year, and he is
I figured the Raiders would just swallow their pride and move on at some point, and they didn't, which i think is to their credit... People can disagree on the assessment of the player but the general philosophy of saying "this is what it will take to convince us to move player X and if you cant meet that, we're keeping him" is IMO, the right approach. I didnt think the club had the stones to do that, and i thought the relationship between player and coach had soured too much for it to be viable. Which i was clearly, and happily ill say, wrong on both fronts.

... but yeah i was certainly right about who held the leverage in the negotiations. And that the Tigers/Eels/whoever were not going to magically wake up one morning and fold on their position.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman wrote: March 30, 2022, 12:26 pm Well i wouldnt say i was THAT right :lol:

I was fairly confident he wouldn't be here this year, and he is
I figured the Raiders would just swallow their pride and move on at some point, and they didn't, which i think is to their credit... People can disagree on the assessment of the player but the general philosophy of saying "this is what it will take to convince us to move player X and if you cant meet that, we're keeping him" is IMO, the right approach. I didnt think the club had the stones to do that, and i thought the relationship between player and coach had soured too much for it to be viable. Which i was clearly, and happily ill say, wrong on both fronts.

... but yeah i was certainly right about who held the leverage in the negotiations. And that the Tigers/Eels/whoever were not going to magically wake up one morning and fold on their position.
Yeah I was going for the leverage part. Hard to believe some were advocating for other clubs to take a massive chunk of Hodgo on to their cap for this season. It was always high risk/low reward based on 21 and 20.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by yurithe1 »

It's been reported in the Sydney Morning Herald and echoed by Fox Sports in this following report that:

"Parramatta has an option in their favour to cut recruit and currently injured Raiders hooker Josh Hodgson after just one season.

The Sydney Morning Herald reported The Eels have an option in their favour to trigger the final year of Hodgson’s two-year contract, which expires at the end of 2024.

The Eels have lost star hooker Reed Mahoney to the Bulldogs after the 2022 season, with Hodgson recruited to fill his considerable void at No.9.

However Hodgson is currently out for the year with a knee injury, which has seen him rubbed out for the season for the second time in three years."

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/hidden ... 5adzu.html

Parramatta reportedly has an option in their favour to cut recruit and currently injured Raiders hooker Josh Hodgson after just one season: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... bc4ceae26e
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by jimmy82 »

Parra must be thinking they made a huge mistake with this signing
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Finchy »

jimmy82 wrote: April 18, 2022, 6:13 pm Parra must be thinking they made a huge mistake with this signing
Let's face it, they probably did.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Old School Green »

I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Billy Walker »

Old School Green wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:45 pm I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
(It was over…before it began)
A bloke that stood down from a leadership position when he was co captain. A guy that has taken a different stand to the club after players had been released. I don’t necessarily disagree or begrudge him making those calls but I wouldn’t think they are great ingredients for someone on the coaching staff. I think this crazy notion of never being able to move a player on is quite bizarre. We actually need to be ruthless. Get players that perform and move them on when they cease being useful.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Rickmando »

Billy Walker wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:56 pm
Old School Green wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:45 pm I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
(It was over…before it began)
A bloke that stood down from a leadership position when he was co captain. A guy that has taken a different stand to the club after players had been released. I don’t necessarily disagree or begrudge him making those calls but I wouldn’t think they are great ingredients for someone on the coaching staff. I think this crazy notion of never being able to move a player on is quite bizarre. We actually need to be ruthless. Get players that perform and move them on when they cease being useful.
It’s very old fashioned. Once the game went professional - clubs became a business and players became commodities. Queanbeyan is still stuck in the 80’s.

Contracts should be about having players in your team playing to the level (or ideally above) what they’re costing you in the cap. Once they start physically declining, you let other mug clubs pay them on reputation and you re-allocate the money to keep more promising players and/or recruit new ones. It’s not difficult if you keep the emotions out of it.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Botman »

I don’t think Hodgson would want to come and join our coaching staff and I’m not sure he’d be suited to it regardless

But the idea that we wouldn’t want someone who’s got the courage of his convictions on the staff is pretty silly imo

This club needs more people willing to be dissenting voices and not more yes men
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Billy Walker »

Botman wrote: April 19, 2022, 7:01 am I don’t think Hodgson would want to come and join our coaching staff and I’m not sure he’d be suited to it regardless

But the idea that we wouldn’t want someone who’s got the courage of his convictions on the staff is pretty silly imo

This club needs more people willing to be dissenting voices and not more yes men
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by cat »

Old School Green wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:45 pm I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
(It was over…before it began)
I think thats the way we had planned on going here but Hodgo wanted to play on longer than he should

This smells a lot like Campo except no other club was willing to fork out crazy cash for Campo.

Coaching money would be a lot less then what parra are paying him
Hodgo wants to play as long as he can and make the bigger bucks, I get that but sometimes you earn more in the long run if you take the lower pay earlier
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Finchy »

cat wrote: April 19, 2022, 9:47 am
Old School Green wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:45 pm I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
(It was over…before it began)
I think thats the way we had planned on going here but Hodgo wanted to play on longer than he should

This smells a lot like Campo except no other club was willing to fork out crazy cash for Campo.

Coaching money would be a lot less then what parra are paying him
Hodgo wants to play as long as he can and make the bigger bucks, I get that but sometimes you earn more in the long run if you take the lower pay earlier
I’m sure I read somewhere that Hodgo thought he had another 5 years in him. Tell him he’s dreaming. Has he had 3 knee recos in 4 years?
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by cat »

Finchy wrote: April 19, 2022, 10:02 am
cat wrote: April 19, 2022, 9:47 am
Old School Green wrote: April 18, 2022, 9:45 pm I think we miss his leadership and direction greatly as evidenced by the last 5 weeks.
We should make some type of play-transition-to-coach deal with him. We let Sia stick around offering not very much and I think Hodgo would be of greater value and it keeps him where he should be. Eels would be content I dare say to do a Kevin bloody Wilson…
(It was over…before it began)
I think thats the way we had planned on going here but Hodgo wanted to play on longer than he should

This smells a lot like Campo except no other club was willing to fork out crazy cash for Campo.

Coaching money would be a lot less then what parra are paying him
Hodgo wants to play as long as he can and make the bigger bucks, I get that but sometimes you earn more in the long run if you take the lower pay earlier
I’m sure I read somewhere that Hodgo thought he had another 5 years in him. Tell him he’s dreaming. Has he had 3 knee recos in 4 years?
And he is 32yrs old
Even the contract he has with parra makes him 34yrs old when he retires

There are very very few cam smith's who make it as far as he did with no serious injuries


The club had helped him look into if he enjoyed coaching with him being part of the coaching crew during his rehab. He obviously took it as a sign that we thought his playing days were numbered and got his knickers in a knot ( thus the public disagreements with the club)

Really not sure what more we can do

My gut feeling is he will be injured a lot next season at the eels and then have no contract for 2024. How he handles that could be concerning tbh
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by yurithe1 »

The only way Hodgson has another 5 years left in him is if he returns to Super League. The heavier grounds in England might help him out in terms of overall speed of the game.

Alternatively, France is lovely at this time of year or so I hear.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by BJ »

yurithe1 wrote:The only way Hodgson has another 5 years left in him is if he returns to Super League. The heavier grounds in England might help him out in terms of overall speed of the game.

Alternatively, France is lovely at this time of year or so I hear.
The only way Hodgson has another 5 years is if he takes up ET’s Rugby League on PlayStation and doesn’t do a thumb injury.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Finchy »

Hodgson sets record straight on new contract and explains why he refused to be medically retired

The Sydney Morning Herald has claimed the Eels have an option in their favour which would allow them cut ties with Josh Hodgson after 12 months.

“There is an option in both favours so I have got two years, there is a player option and a club option in that one, so I am there for two years just to clear that one up,” Hodgson said. “I heard about the story, but there's an option in my favour and in the club’s favour which is obviously different in salaries, that’s why it is negotiated like that but there is an option in both favours so it will be a two-year deal.”

Read more: https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... K_o8PrAiWs
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Finchy »

I'm a little confused by the club option and player option for 2024, having different salaries.

I'm not sure what his deal is worth, so let's just talk hypothetically, and say he signed a contract worth $600k per year. I assume the contract was framed that way with the following scenarios in mind:

Scenario 1: He plays well, the club are happy with his form, and the club takes up the option to keep him for 2024.
Scenario 2: He plays terribly (or gets injured) in 2023, and the Eels decide they don't really want him for the next year. Hodgo then takes up his option to stay anyway, albeit for less coin, say $300k.

What I don't get is, even if he plays like the second coming of Cameron Smith in 2023 and fully deserves his full pay packet, why on earth would the Eels take up their option for 2024 and pay more, when he can simply take up his player option regardless and they can pay him less? That's more money they can utilise elsewhere.

Am I missing something here?
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by gangrenous »

The missing bit is if he plays like Cam Smith he signs elsewhere for 600k. Parra have to activate to keep him.

Not going to happen. But that’s the theory.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by Finchy »

gangrenous wrote: April 21, 2022, 6:09 pm The missing bit is if he plays like Cam Smith he signs elsewhere for 600k. Parra have to activate to keep him.

Not going to happen. But that’s the theory.
Ah yes, that makes sense. I think Hodgo is a little delusional about his form/longevity/worth, but kudos for backing himself I guess.
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by cat »

I'm confused with the reason for this article from Josh

I presume the journo rang him but the simple answer would have been " I'm still a Raider this season focusing on my rehab, I will worry about Parra next year"

Kinda sounds like he is convincing himself he can still play for 2 or more seasons...
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Re: Josh Hodgson signs with Eels for 2023

Post by cat »

Finchy wrote: April 21, 2022, 6:21 pm
gangrenous wrote: April 21, 2022, 6:09 pm The missing bit is if he plays like Cam Smith he signs elsewhere for 600k. Parra have to activate to keep him.

Not going to happen. But that’s the theory.
Ah yes, that makes sense. I think Hodgo is a little delusional about his form/longevity/worth, but kudos for backing himself I guess.
The worrying part from me is what happens when he doesn't make it at parra?

I have a bad feeling that the crash out of playing and into "normal life" is going to be huge and not pretty
Vaccinated
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