Jamal Fogarty joins Canberra Raiders on three year deal

[Northern Raider]

I see some people are still dissatisfied that we have signed Fogarty. Dissatisfied on what basis ? We had G Williams leave us suddenly and besides Reynolds who joined Broncos for a longer contract which his own junior club refused to grant in which he was the captain, there was no one good coming off the market. Hynes wouldn't have joined us for lifestyle reasons, maybe the same for Reynolds. We should get real - Fogarty, compared to Adam Clune, Townsend, Milford whose contract cannot even be registered, Ash Taylor, the perennially injured Shaun Johnson, Dearden, Corey Norman, Clifford , Mitchell "I want to sample French wines" Pearce is very good. We could not have Sammy Williams in the driver's seat again for more than one game. And he's better than Brooks , Kyle Flanagan who are not off contract as well.

My only complaint is resigning both Sammy and Frawley - I would have gone for a up and coming player(s) with upside such as Luke Metcalf or the St George half Jayden Sullivan or Sean O Sullivan. It is a waste of the cap for Sammy Williams and Frawley to be resigned in lieu of having an up and comer on our books.

Not sure anybody is expressing dissatisfaction with the signing. More like tempering expectations.

[Hong Kong Raider]

You are probably right Northern, dissatisfaction was the wrong word.

[Billy Walker]

You are probably right Northern, dissatisfaction was the wrong word.

Agree with you about the Williams and Frawley signings. At worst sign one but not both.

[Botman]

Yeah NR is exactly right. Its just really trying to get in front bus a bit to slow it down
He's a good signing, under the circumstances we faced, we're pretty lucky to at least have someone like him rather than being forced into playing Williams or Frawley on a game in and game out basis.
It's just we do have to remember that whilst i think we're all happy with this signing, most teams we play will be starting a halfback better than us.

[Northern Raider]

Fogarty's form is well exposed and you know what you get. Nothing special and not terrible. When you look back on his performances he's actually quite consistent. He just doesn't have anything next level to his game.

[Raider Azz]

Yeah NR is exactly right. Its just really trying to get in front bus a bit to slow it down
He's a good signing, under the circumstances we faced, we're pretty lucky to at least have someone like him rather than being forced into playing Williams or Frawley on a game in and game out basis.
It's just we do have to remember that whilst i think we're all happy with this signing, most teams we play will be starting a halfback better than us.

I would consider him about on par to Sezer, and Sezer at halfback got us to a GF. We don't need a game changer, we just need someone to take pressure off Jack so that Jack can hopefully focus on his own game and recapture his 19/20 form. If he can do that, the signing will be a success.

[sprintman]

At least he’s hung around for a while, unlike Dudley Dotoi at Tigpies who’s lasted all of a week…

[BJ123]

Yeah NR is exactly right. Its just really trying to get in front bus a bit to slow it down
He's a good signing, under the circumstances we faced, we're pretty lucky to at least have someone like him rather than being forced into playing Williams or Frawley on a game in and game out basis.
It's just we do have to remember that whilst i think we're all happy with this signing, most teams we play will be starting a halfback better than us.

I would consider him about on par to Sezer, and Sezer at halfback got us to a GF. We don't need a game changer, we just need someone to take pressure off Jack so that Jack can hopefully focus on his own game and recapture his 19/20 form. If he can do that, the signing will be a success.

I reckon Fogarty will prove good value. But I think Sezer showed better form at the Titans and looked a better player with us than Jamaal has over his NRL career. So I can’t put them on par with each other. (Yet!).

[benda]

Its just a relief that we have a first grader as 7.

Good luck to him!

[Seiffert82]

Fogarty's form is well exposed and you know what you get. Nothing special and not terrible. When you look back on his performances he's actually quite consistent. He just doesn't have anything next level to his game.

I'm actually far more comfortable with him in the role than George Williams, who never really clicked with Wighton, nor took control from Hodgson.

[Cranky Old Man]

In hindsight it seems plain that G Williams was a running 5/8, albeit a different style to Wighton. He tried manfully to play a halfback style but under pressure his natural instincts kicked in as is usually the case. He was a good player, but not really the player the Raiders needed. In any case, the arguement is moot as a result of his instability. Fogarty seems a natural half, so under pressure he should revert to the basics of halfback play which should be good for us. He is neither Cronk nor Cleary but he seems entirely competent which is all we should need to improve on last year.
Lets see how he turns out, that is always the most interesting part of being a specctator.

[afgtnk]

Fogarty won't be a patch on George Williams. We voted him our best player last year, and Jack playing alongside him won a Dally M medal. He's a match winner, who won us a number of matches in his short time off his own back. As Botman has said, that's not Fogarty. Not Williams' fault (or Wighton's) that our coached attacking structure has disintegrated the way it has.

Realistically we should be hoping that we have a solid enough player on our hands, who's better than Sam Williams and Frawley, that can hold us over until we either land or develop a gun.

[Wiki Special]

Yeah NR is exactly right. Its just really trying to get in front bus a bit to slow it down
He's a good signing, under the circumstances we faced, we're pretty lucky to at least have someone like him rather than being forced into playing Williams or Frawley on a game in and game out basis.
It's just we do have to remember that whilst i think we're all happy with this signing, most teams we play will be starting a halfback better than us.

I would consider him about on par to Sezer, and Sezer at halfback got us to a GF. We don't need a game changer, we just need someone to take pressure off Jack so that Jack can hopefully focus on his own game and recapture his 19/20 form. If he can do that, the signing will be a success.

I agree with the Sezer comparison.

[Northern Raider]

Fogarty won't be a patch on George Williams. We voted him our best player last year, and Jack playing alongside him won a Dally M medal. He's a match winner, who won us a number of matches in his short time off his own back. As Botman has said, that's not Fogarty. Not Williams' fault (or Wighton's) that our coached attacking structure has disintegrated the way it has.

Realistically we should be hoping that we have a solid enough player on our hands, who's better than Sam Williams and Frawley, that can hold us over until we either land or develop a gun.

Williams is a far more talented player. He was also a lot like Wighton in many respects. That actually worked well in a pure split halves environment. We could play a similar structure on both sides of the field, which was working at the time.

Going forward a more traditional half/five-eigth combo can also work provided we adjust our structure accordingly. We know Foragrty is happy playing both sides. What I'd like to see is Wighton move away from the left edge more in attack. Its almost like he plays behind an invisible wall down the middle of the field.

[Shiv]

agreed - last year I saw him drift to the right once or twice to add to the attack on that side. The couple of times he did it you could see the opposition were not ready for him - and all I could think was "gee, why doesn't he do that more often...."

[Raiders_Pat]

Agreed x2

[Botman]

Yeah the way to get around the ball playing issue at fullback is to play more traditionally, and have Wighton roam as the "fullback" in attacking situations and play both sides
Similar to what NSW did with Tommy T. Line up Fog and Wighton on the open side of the field, with Savage lurking around too, and run the attack mostly through those two halves, and then have your little shot/set plays for the short side, which can be the hooker's territory with crash balls or trying to exploit the numbers advantage when the defence line shifts to account for the 3 main play makers being on the open side

[Seiffert82]

It seems so obvious. Wighton has even played fullback in the past, so it's not like he is allergic to the right side of the field.

There must be reasons why we haven't gone down that path. I'm so desperate for Crawley to fix this up. It could completely transform our team.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

[Raiders_Pat]

It seems so obvious. Wighton has even played fullback in the past, so it's not like he is allergic to the right side of the field.

There must be reasons why we haven't gone down that path. I'm so desperate for Crawley to fix this up. It could completely transform our team.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

I can see why we went this way when Wighton was still learning and developing in the position. Get him to focus on the side he's more comfortable on and keep things simple. But we're a few years down the track now so it's become counterproductive. We should definitely play to his strengths and have him play both sides in the more instinctual/natural second receiver role, while Fogarty is the "director" in the first receiver role. Doesn't stop Wighton from demanding the ball and skipping Fogarty in the situations where that's what needs to happen either.

[Northern Raider]

Reckon it was a big factor in Wighton not being as effective in attack in 2021. Teams adjusted to better contain him by pushing an extra man from the middle out into his corridor. Easy to do when there's very little threat on our right hand side.

[BadnMean]

It seems so obvious. Wighton has even played fullback in the past, so it's not like he is allergic to the right side of the field.

There must be reasons why we haven't gone down that path. I'm so desperate for Crawley to fix this up. It could completely transform our team.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

I seem to remember Wighton only ever really running the left side sweep play when FB too though...

[afgtnk]

Wighton didn't play on the right side. He swept around on the left.

Has to be an issue with his ability to pass from left to right, and/or the arc of his run which is suited for a left sided player.

[Hong Kong Raider]

Wighton did play well as a right centre in the 2019 game versus Tonga as Latrell played left centre. He was one of our best players even though the Kangaroos lost

[Seiffert82]

It seems so obvious. Wighton has even played fullback in the past, so it's not like he is allergic to the right side of the field.

There must be reasons why we haven't gone down that path. I'm so desperate for Crawley to fix this up. It could completely transform our team.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

I seem to remember Wighton only ever really running the left side sweep play when FB too though...

Yeah, there is no question he is a predominantly left hand side link player, but it hasn't been exclusively that way, whether at fullback or at right centre.

I just hope Crawley challenges him to switch it up a bit. As has been pointed out, the opposition has totally figured out how to nullify his running game (only made worse by having a physically lame centre play outside him).

Having a capable centre on the left, the speed of Savage at fullback and Jack play both sides of the ruck could totally transform our attack.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

[BadnMean]

It seems so obvious. Wighton has even played fullback in the past, so it's not like he is allergic to the right side of the field.

There must be reasons why we haven't gone down that path. I'm so desperate for Crawley to fix this up. It could completely transform our team.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

I seem to remember Wighton only ever really running the left side sweep play when FB too though...

Yeah, there is no question he is a predominantly left hand side link player, but it hasn't been exclusively that way, whether at fullback or at right centre.

I just hope Crawley challenges him to switch it up a bit. As has been pointed out, the opposition has totally figured out how to nullify his running game (only made worse by having a physically lame centre play outside him).

Having a capable centre on the left, the speed of Savage at fullback and Jack play both sides of the ruck could totally transform our attack.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

Yeah true, he (Jack) needs to grow again as a player, get out of his comfort zone. He's absurdly athletic so he can do it if he gets his head around it.

And as others have pointed out he's played the odd game here and there on the right and looked good there.

[Love4Noa]

Wighton should be half. First ball off the ruck. It's really very very simple.

[Botman]

Why?

[Seiffert82]

...shouldn't have to explain it really.

It's very simple.

Sent from my CPH2021 using Tapatalk

[Botman]

Yeah, i'm going to need some elaboration on why a run first footballer who excels with athleticism against slower back rowers, and smaller players like halves and centres, who isn't a natural organiser, who isn't a particularly good ball player or distributor, and who's kicking game is hit and miss should be a primary first receiver.

The reason you go and get a guy like Fogarty is so you dont have to have Wighton play that role

[chris83]

Wighton should be half. First ball off the ruck. It's really very very simple.

So you want a half that isn't an organiser, has a below average passing game, a below average long kicking and short kicking game and who's main strength is his running to get the ball first? Good lord!!

[Love4Noa]

Wighton should be half. First ball off the ruck. It's really very very simple.

So you want a half that isn't an organiser, has a below average passing game, a below average long kicking and short kicking game and who's main strength is his running to get the ball first? Good lord!!

Last year, we had a half that had no long kicking game - was meant to be an amazing short kicker of the football, and exhibited very little in terms of his running game. And then he went back to England. And we've had Williams in and around the team for years - who has no running game, no kicking game, and no passing game - who's main strength is he's a good bloke.

And we've had Wighton, sitting back outside those guys while they make the decisions about where best to serve Jack.

Wighton is a monster of a guy, with a very very strong running game. I see zero harm, and a lot of benefit in having a guy who is able to immediately run at the line first ball off the ruck. It would do away substantially with the weakest part of his game, which is the crabbing across field. Wighton is most effective when he runs hard, and he runs straight. He isn't a distributor of the ball, and he isn't an intelligent football player. In saying that - I daresay he would have the nous to accelerate the ball to someone like Fogarty, who seems much more like a ball player.

Fogarty standing two off the ruck and demanding the ball when he sees an opportunity to use the outside backs or to create enough of doubt in an oppositional defensive line seems fine to me.

I'm sick to death of watching Wighton get the ball standing 15 metres behind the play the ball, second or sometimes third man to touch it - and have the single play of run to his left and pass to the centre.

He isn't a good enough kicker to be the 5/8th - as in, to get the ball and be allowed to make any decision about where the placement of the ball should be. He can roost it, he can kick high and long when needed - but he doesn't need time to over complicate it.

Get him the ball immediately. Jack, you see something - run. You see nothing - pass to someone who can do something with it.

It isn't the 90's anymore where there is benefit in having an organising half sitting one off the ruck and directing play - that would be wonderful if players worked both sides of the field and the 5/8th trailed the half , but even if Fogs works left and right, we know Wighton won't go with him.

Again, it's really simple. Slow the game down for the bloke. Put pressure on your markers, put pressure on the defenders closest to the ruck, and have them nervous about a big body running at speed in the centre of the field. Don't neutralise his threat letting him resort to the tried formula of sideways movement.

When is Jack most dangerous? When he gets a short ball close to the line and running at speed. Why not give him the option of running first on EVERY play?

And to quote this - So you want a half that isn't an organiser, has a below average passing game, a below average long kicking and short kicking game and who's main strength is his running to get the ball first? Good lord!! I'm pretty sure this is what we've had for over a decade. May as well try something different because right now we are wasting the talent that Jack has - and the more time he has to think, the more it ends up being kicked out on the full.

[Botman]

The guys in the middle of the field are forwards, they're spending all game tackling guys like Papalii and Tapine... Wighton as a ball runner doesn't scare them play to play... unless he's running at them in broken field situations or when they're in full blown retreat and are thus susceptible to footwork at the line they're not going to be worried by him at all running "straight and hard" in the middle of the field

I just cant fathom it, according to your post... Wighton isnt a good kicker (agree), isn't a good passer (agree), and is not a very smart football player (agree) and yet you want him as the primary first receiver so he can run hard at middle forwards?
Sheeeh.

FWIW, Wigton is very much at his best playing wider of the ruck, where he can isolate a player, and force them to make key 1 on 1 tackles against him. In this scenario, he can use his power running to go through outside shoulders, or his step and strength to beat lazy inside shoulders.

[Love4Noa]

The guys in the middle of the field are forwards, they're spending all game tackling guys like Papalii and Tapine... Wighton as a ball runner doesn't scare them play to play... unless he's running at them in broken field situations or when they're in full blown retreat and are thus susceptible to footwork at the line they're not going to be worried by him at all running "straight and hard" in the middle of the field

I just cant fathom it, according to your post... Wighton isnt a good kicker (agree), isn't a good passer (agree), and is not a very smart football player (agree) and yet you want him as the primary first receiver so he can run hard at middle forwards?
Sheeeh.

FWIW, Wigton is very much at his best playing wider of the ruck, where he can isolate a player, and force them to make key 1 on 1 tackles against him. In this scenario, he can use his power running to go through outside shoulders, or his step and strength to beat lazy inside shoulders.

The game is excessively quick. And becoming more so. It will continue to work towards fatigue, and it will continue to reward smart fast lines back towards tired defenders - usually the big boppers in the middle of the field. A halfback can also get the ball first off the ruck in the three quarters, or have the option to go down the blind. He isn't confined to the middle third and as such I find your comment kind of weird.

He isn't at his best wider of the ruck. Just because it's his fall back play week in week out doesn't actually make it a good thing.

Watch a lot of Sam Williams success this year - it was when he ran....and usually right away either back to the ruck or towards tired forwards. If Sam WIlliams can make clean breaks - Wighton can destroy teams. And if you've got a smart 5/8th sitting off his shoulder with a bit of ball playing ability and guys like Savage etc feeding off the fact the first 2 or 3 defenders at every ruck are preoccupied with Jack, it creates significantly more doubt than lounging around waiting for the ball to get out to the massive 5/8th standing 15 metres back running to his left. Again and again and again.

[Botman]

The vast majority of first ruck touches are going to be in areas of the field where middle third defenders are station, unless it is a short blind side.
It's pretty much a given that if Wighton receives the football on the open side as the primary first receiver, when he looks up, the players in front of him will be middle third defenders pretty much every time.
That's just the structure of NRL defences. And play to play, where the defensive line is set and not in retreat or in broken field situations, they're not remotely worried about tackling Jack Wighton running hard at them.

I honestly think the idea of Wighton being a primary first receiver is one of the strangest ideas i've come across, it makes absolutely no sense given his skill set and where he has thrived before in his role.

But in complete fairness i didnt read that entire post, I simply could not get past the "Watch a lot of Sam Williams success this year" line.
So agree to disagree.

[Love4Noa]

The vast majority of first ruck touches are going to be in areas of the field where middle third defenders are station, unless it is a short blind side.
It's pretty much a given that if Wighton receives the football on the open side as the primary first receiver, when he looks up, the players in front of him will be middle third defenders pretty much every time.
That's just the structure of NRL defences. And play to play, where the defensive line is set and not in retreat or in broken field situations, they're not remotely worried about tackling Jack Wighton running hard at them.

I honestly think the idea of Wighton being a primary first receiver is one of the strangest ideas i've come across, it makes absolutely no sense given his skill set and where he has thrived before in his role.

But in complete fairness i didnt read that entire post, I simply could not get past the "Watch a lot of Sam Williams success this year" line.
So agree to disagree.

I'm not here to disagree with anyone or sway opinion. But Wighton at 5/8 is a waste of time. If you didn't appreciate the benefit of Sammy's running game at tired defenders, you won't be convinced otherwise. I think you've got a pretty locked view of a defensive line controlling play as opposed to how it should be manipulated by decent attack and immediate options that place doubt as to their attention at the ruck, at first receiver, and moving further out.

I won't die on a hill for my argument, but I'd be giving it a crack in a trial.

Whatever makes Jack run first and think later has my support.