2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
6
55%
Raiders 1-12
1
9%
Draw
0
No votes
Broncos 1-12
1
9%
Broncos 13+
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

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afgtnk
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Think the fitness issues did manage to start affecting us towards the back end again. Don't think we're clear of that hurdle, despite the big win.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by mick63 »

Mental or fitness?
I’m saying it’s more mental to allow them to score late,which tmm is even more disappointing.
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-TW-
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

mick63 wrote:
greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 2:15 pm
Elcaptcroker wrote: June 13, 2021, 1:56 pm Just watched the game, best 70 mins, last 10 got alittle sloppy but hey not complaining, a wins a win esp with a score like that


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To be honest, I was disappointed with it. The Raiders should have been piling on points against that Broncos team with just 12 men in that final 20 minutes. Turned out to be one try each. It's not like their for and against didn't need it.
Very disappointed considering the swathe of possession that flowed the Raiders way in the second half
It was definitely an uninspiring win. There were patches where I was thinking wed be flat out beating anyone else.

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gerg
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gerg »

greeneyed wrote:
Elcaptcroker wrote: June 13, 2021, 1:56 pm Just watched the game, best 70 mins, last 10 got alittle sloppy but hey not complaining, a wins a win esp with a score like that


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To be honest, I was disappointed with it. The Raiders should have been piling on points against that Broncos team with just 12 men in that final 20 minutes. Turned out to be one try each. It's not like their for and against didn't need it.
Yeah that was disappointing. Prevent that last Broncos try and you would put it down as a pretty good performance all round.

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Botman
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

We're not really good enough to be expecting to pile points on **** anyone, even when we've got a one man advantage

The level of play was disappointing, but that's what we are, a disappointing team
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Fox Sports Lab has the Raiders with 48 per cent possession in the second half, but the Raiders had 64 per cent of the territory. The discipline was costly, as the Raiders conceded five penalties in the second half (Broncos two). An element of it was self inflicted.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by FROG »

But to be fair, Rapana scored a try that was unfairly denied. We should have also scored another try had we showed some discipline when starling picked up that loose ball. I agree we didn't respect the ball once they were reduced to 12, but on the whole I thought it was a pretty good performance
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius »

I didn't see the game, have only watched the highlights but... Timoko, fantastic. Simo looked great chiming in, can't comment on his defence. Hetherington was very unlucky. Old mate torpedoed his head into his shoulder not the other way around.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

Dr Zaius wrote:I didn't see the game, have only watched the highlights but... Timoko, fantastic. Simo looked great chiming in, can't comment on his defence. Hetherington was very unlucky. Old mate torpedoed his head into his shoulder not the other way around.
Was an utter embarassment. Could cop it if they were consistent but it's all over the shop

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gangrenous
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

gergreg wrote:Yes good game from Simmo but he can't afford to let bombs bounce against better sides. Was it twice it happened?

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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Elcaptcroker »

-TW- wrote:
mick63 wrote:
greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 2:15 pm
Elcaptcroker wrote: June 13, 2021, 1:56 pm Just watched the game, best 70 mins, last 10 got alittle sloppy but hey not complaining, a wins a win esp with a score like that


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To be honest, I was disappointed with it. The Raiders should have been piling on points against that Broncos team with just 12 men in that final 20 minutes. Turned out to be one try each. It's not like their for and against didn't need it.
Very disappointed considering the swathe of possession that flowed the Raiders way in the second half
It was definitely an uninspiring win. There were patches where I was thinking wed be flat out beating anyone else.

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Considering the performances we've dished iut recently it was a great 70 but that last 10 was very sloppy


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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Kryptonite »

Canberra Milk wrote: June 12, 2021, 10:35 pm
radicalraider wrote: June 12, 2021, 10:31 pm Where are all the simmonson critics hiding tonight
I'm still very much a critic of his wing performances. It may just be a case of his skillset being better suited to the 1 jersey. Early days but looks good
Yeah I’m not hiding, he got lucky against a team that would struggle against the Moore Park Rangers
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gangrenous
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Put me down as another on the send off was the wrong call. Debatable whether it’s even 10 in the bin, but probably has to be to keep some semblance of black/white in the rules. Didn’t look like there was much that could have been done to avoid it.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

gangrenous wrote: June 13, 2021, 6:49 pm Put me down as another on the send off was the wrong call. Debatable whether it’s even 10 in the bin, but probably has to be to keep some semblance of black/white in the rules. Didn’t look like there was much that could have been done to avoid it.
I'm quoting you, but not disagreeing with you at all. If there was nothing that could be done to avoid the accident, why is it being penalised at all? The gradings are "careless", "reckless" and "intentional" (from memory). They've given him a grade one careless charge... but I really don't understand how Hetherington was in any way careless. It was a mistake to send him off, and it was a mistake to charge him at all. The NRL is in this situation, because they haven't thought through what it is they're doing, and what the possible consequences are. And they're doing that over and over again, because they shoot from the hip far too often.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Kode Hetherington didn't deserve send off: Canberra Raiders prop Josh Papalii

Kobe Hetherington has found an ally in one of the first victims of the NRL crackdown on high contact, with Canberra Raiders prop Josh Papalii coming to the defence of the Brisbane Broncos hooker.

"I thought it was an accident. Corey getting his legs cut down and falling into the tackle," Papalii said. "He couldn't do much there. I thought the send off was a bit much."

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

Kryptonite wrote: June 13, 2021, 6:29 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: June 12, 2021, 10:35 pm
radicalraider wrote: June 12, 2021, 10:31 pm Where are all the simmonson critics hiding tonight
I'm still very much a critic of his wing performances. It may just be a case of his skillset being better suited to the 1 jersey. Early days but looks good
Yeah I’m not hiding, he got lucky against a team that would struggle against the Moore Park Rangers
Yeah chalk me up here... he played a good game against arguably the worst team in the competition, who were also down on troops... This was a very flat track and kudos to Simo for being the bully
It's a good start and im excited to see where he goes to from here, but he's not going to get it this easy again i wouldnt think and there was some issues in his game as a fullback (to be expected to be clear given its his first run in the position in FG) that better teams will expose.
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2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

I think the thing is that if you don’t draw the line here then you leave open people with tackling techniques where they tend to swing high and any stumble sees them contact the head. Or players leading with the shoulder arriving after the first tackler where there’s likely to be a falling player. Then claiming an accident.

So, there can be an element of carelessness in attempting tackles which should be fine, but have greater potential for serious injury if the scenario deviates slightly from expected.

This is why no shoulder charge is legal - good shots could be put on, but the margins were too risky. They had to go. Similarly here, there is a responsibility for the players to take greater caution in the way they approach a tackle to minimise the risk of a head injury.

In this case, I think it’s a little different because CHN jumps and then is flipped. This wasn’t just the player falling, he elevated and then fell which is incredibly rare and not reasonable to anticipate.

I think for the sake of fans inability to distinguish it has to be a sin bin and that’s just a bit of bad luck for the team it happens to. But I’d expect the expert judiciary* to review the incident carefully and exonerate.

* I mean, I would if I believed the judiciary were actually consistent and rational. Which I don’t.**

** Note I’m not saying they won’t exonerate here. I expect they will with public pressure. I just don’t find the judiciary consistent.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

On a separate note. Was vey concerning to hear Papalii say the team doesn’t need to change the way it plays.

The game fundamentally changed. The team needs to as well.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

The player set high and hit high. The nature of the incident is a little deceptive because CHN leaps, and then falls, but the point at which we fell too was no unusually low. He didnt make contact with CHN 3 feet off the ground or something silly. The contact was at pretty much the same height he would have been if CHN was on his feet.

And the NRL have made it clear mitigating circumstances wont save you. I do agree that a straight send off was probably a tad harsh, but it was a no brainer sin bin based on the way the game has been officiated since magic round, and they've been as consistent about that as you can possibly hope to get from this group of officials which are hopelessly inconsistent with almost everything they do.

People say "What could he have done?"
My answer:
Lower your hit zone. It was bad technique, he set his hit zone too high and paid the price because something happened that he didnt anticipate. You cant be setting your hit zone to be at the upper torso and shoulder area anymore, the margins are too thin, the slightest miscalculation or late change in the player is leaving you exposed. And again, the NRL have made it clear that those mitigating circumstances wont save you from being marched.

I have to say at this point, i dont particularly like the way they are going about this. I understand what they're trying to do but i dont think this is a good or healthy way to do it. But the reality is the players have to play within the rules as they are currently enforced. Whether you like the rule or not, is irrelevant. The onus is on the players to adapt.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Matt »

Postman Pat wrote: June 13, 2021, 12:43 am
Matt wrote:The boys on the GMP called for Simmo to FB. Well, Simmo delivered.
M1’s been pushing that for weeks, the rest of the boys have been laughing at him tbh. It should be a fun podcast this week on this subject.
I can safely say there is 1 other guy who has supported him.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:24 pm The player set high and hit high. The nature of the incident is a little deceptive because CHN leaps, and then falls, but the point at which we fell too was no unusually low. He didnt make contact with CHN 3 feet off the ground or something silly. The contact was at pretty much the same height he would have been if CHN was on his feet.

And the NRL have made it clear mitigating circumstances wont save you. I do agree that a straight send off was probably a tad harsh, but it was a no brainer sin bin based on the way the game has been officiated since magic round, and they've been as consistent about that as you can possibly hope to get from this group of officials which are hopelessly inconsistent with almost everything they do.

People say "What could he have done?"
My answer:
Lower your hit zone. It was bad technique, he set his hit zone too high and paid the price because something happened that he didnt anticipate. You cant be setting your hit zone to be at the upper torso and shoulder area anymore, the margins are too thin, the slightest miscalculation or late change in the player is leaving you exposed. And again, the NRL have made it clear that those mitigating circumstances wont save you from being marched.

I have to say at this point, i dont particularly like the way they are going about this. I understand what they're trying to do but i dont think this is a good or healthy way to do it. But the reality is the players have to play within the rules as they are currently enforced. Whether you like the rule or not, is irrelevant. The onus is on the players to adapt.
But he already had a hit zone that was low.

And we know that the officials "recalibrated" for Origin, and they seem to have "recalibrated" this weekend, in a majority of cases. There were players who were not sin binned on the weekend, who would have been binned or even sent off in Magic Round. The inconsistency has everyone confused. The problem is the way the NRL introduced the crackdown in Magic Round. It was ridiculously harsh. It's a good thing that there's recalibration going on, because we've damaging the product, big time, unnecessarily. It's a complete mess, it's a complete stuff up. And this weekend, we've got some horrible inconsistencies. Hopefully, we soon get back to some sensible and more consistent officiating.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

Botman wrote:The player set high and hit high. The nature of the incident is a little deceptive because CHN leaps, and then falls, but the point at which we fell too was no unusually low. He didnt make contact with CHN 3 feet off the ground or something silly. The contact was at pretty much the same height he would have been if CHN was on his feet.

And the NRL have made it clear mitigating circumstances wont save you. I do agree that a straight send off was probably a tad harsh, but it was a no brainer sin bin based on the way the game has been officiated since magic round, and they've been as consistent about that as you can possibly hope to get from this group of officials which are hopelessly inconsistent with almost everything they do.

People say "What could he have done?"
My answer:
Lower your hit zone. It was bad technique, he set his hit zone too high and paid the price because something happened that he didnt anticipate. You cant be setting your hit zone to be at the upper torso and shoulder area anymore, the margins are too thin, the slightest miscalculation or late change in the player is leaving you exposed. And again, the NRL have made it clear that those mitigating circumstances wont save you from being marched.

I have to say at this point, i dont particularly like the way they are going about this. I understand what they're trying to do but i dont think this is a good or healthy way to do it. But the reality is the players have to play within the rules as they are currently enforced. Whether you like the rule or not, is irrelevant. The onus is on the players to adapt.
He jumps to avoid Gambles tackle, gets clipped, and by the time he gets hit he's on the way down.

If he runs at Hetherington upright that's hitting him in the chest.

Let's also remember CHN came back on. That's at absolute most 10 minutes, send offs are for serious foul play which this wasn't even close to.

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2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

greeneyed wrote:But he already had a hit zone that was low.
Did he though?

Tend to agree with Botman. Which means argument over as per GreenHouse law 53.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:51 pm But he already had a hit zone that was low.
Not low enough, because he collected CHN in the head with his shoulder when CHN was at a pretty normal height. Again, CHN falls, but he falls from an elevated height. He's above his normal range and falls into a normal range. The end result is CHN is hit with forceful contact with a shoulder when he's at normal range. The only way that happens is if the player is set high and aiming for contact in the upper body... which is fine but as per today's rules, if that's what you're doing, you'd better get it right. If you dont, you're gone.

If you set high and you get the ball carriers head, you're done. Simple as that.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:54 pm
greeneyed wrote:But he already had a hit zone that was low.
Did he though?

Tend to agree with Botman. Which means argument over as per GreenHouse law 53.
One off season, it's over baby.
But the answer is no. He didnt set his hit zone low enough. And paid the price because something happened beyond his control. That's footy here in 2021, like it or not.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

-TW- wrote: Let's also remember CHN came back on. That's at absolute most 10 minutes, send offs are for serious foul play which this wasn't even close to.
Shoulders to heads should be send offs, even if you get so lucky that the player isn’t ruled out of the game (which I’d expect 9 times out of 10 from what CHN took)
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

He's also the only person to be sent off and fined.

So the MRP didn't think a whole lot of it

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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote:One off season, it's over baby.
Oh sure, we couldn’t keep up agreeing on everything. You can’t be right all the time Image

But when we do agree. Well it’s just madness to disagree with us! Image
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:55 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:51 pm But he already had a hit zone that was low.
Not low enough, because he collected CHN in the head with his shoulder when CHN was at a pretty normal height. Again, CHN falls, but he falls from an elevated height. He's above his normal range and falls into a normal range. The end result is CHN is hit with forceful contact with a shoulder when he's at normal range. The only way that happens is if the player is set high and aiming for contact in the upper body... which is fine but as per today's rules, if that's what you're doing, you'd better get it right. If you dont, you're gone.

If you set high and you get the ball carriers head, you're done. Simple as that.
How low do you want him to go? Just in case of a freak accident? What if he aimed at his waist, and then there was an even bigger tumble and his head still hit his shoulder on the way down? There needs to be a recognition that in a contact sport, there are accidents. The tackler can't be expected to perfectly foresee every eventuality.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

-TW- wrote: June 13, 2021, 7:52 pm He jumps to avoid Gambles tackle, gets clipped, and by the time he gets hit he's on the way down.

If he runs at Hetherington upright that's hitting him in the chest.

Let's also remember CHN came back on. That's at absolute most 10 minutes, send offs are for serious foul play which this wasn't even close to.

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Firstly, the official cant know if CHN is coming back on or not... maybe down the raod, they'll have the ability to send off and then reduce it to 10 minutes if the player passes a HIA. But the official cant see into the future. He doesnt know if CHN is back in 10 or out for 12 weeks with a broken face.

The conversation starts with 10 minutes. There is zero chance that was ever not going to be at least 10 in the bin. Said so immediately in the game day thread. Clear as day live and confirmed on replay.
Id personally dont feel that strongly about 10 in the bin vs send off. But that's where the decision is to be made based on 2021 interpreations.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:03 pm How low do you want him to go? Just in case of a freak accident? What if he aimed at his waist, and then there was an even bigger tumble and his head still hit his shoulder on the way down? There needs to be a recognition that in a contact sport, there are accidents. The tackler can't be expected to perfectly foresee every eventuality.
You're tackling two different issues here.

How low do i want him to go? Not setting to hit the player in the upper chest/shoulder area with forceful contact. It is well established now that isnt worth the risk. You can go and watch how teams are now defending for the most part, the first point of contact is much lower OR is almost a hugging motion... no force whatsoever, no swinging arms, no attempt to do anything but trying to absorb the hit, and then others come in to finish off.

As for the other part, the what ifs?
I agree that there needs to be understanding and recognition of accidents in a collision sport and if someone is setting at the waist and someone falls into a high shot, we need to consider that... but that has nothing to do with this situation. That's not what happened.

What happened here was Hetherington set high and got it wrong. Just as Papalii did. You pay the price for that now.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

But he didn't "set high". He set for a perfectly legal tackle.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:11 pm But he didn't "set high". He set for a perfectly legal tackle.
Just as Papalii did, and 20 other blokes this year. They all set for perfectly legal tackles and they were all sent from the feild when it they got it slightly wrong on execution and made forceful, direct contact to the head. Mitigating circumstances or intent didnt save any of them and it didnt save Hetherington. And it wont save the next guy either. (Unless it's a QLD player in origin)
Time to adapt

Im not here trying to debate you on whether the crackdown is good, bad or indifferent. Feels like that's the debate you want to have. Im just saying under the interpration put in place since Magic Round, it was no questions asked sin bin and from there we can quibble.
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2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

I didn’t watch the match because Frankly, I’m tired of the ****show that has become the 2021 raiders season.

But I DID watch the replay when I heard we’d actually won the game (I was certain we wouldn’t) and have to say my first reaction to the send off was “gee, that’s a bit harsh, that’s not a send off, gee Botman is a ****”.

But after seeing this discussion I’ve now watched the replay over and over and despite how much of a **** Botman is, I have to say I agree with him now. CHN actually jumps and is then falling and then Hetherington hits him high. I’m not convinced it wouldn’t have been a high shot either way.

So in summary: I hate the raiders and Botman is a ****.
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Re: 2021 Rd 14 V Broncos: Game Day

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: June 13, 2021, 8:19 pm
So in summary: I hate the raiders and Botman is a ****.
Spot, and i cannot stress this enough, on.
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