Haha. I agree, but turning and running backwards when 10m out from your own line was schoolboy stuff. You should give his ball in hand stats a once over. Clearly not an 80 minute player with that output.Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:07 amExplaining why claims of CHN's being solely responsible for these tries being absolutely laughable but predictable isn't digging.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:02 am Botman is digging. I expect 3000 words on why CHN was better than Whitehead at 23 for his next post.
But I'll do you one better, i'll give you 5000 words on JUST how predictable the GH is collectively when it comes to player criticisms.
CHN
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Re: CHN
Re: CHN
Ball in hand stats for our edges aren't particularly interesting to me. Our halves dont know how to use back rowers well. He runs nice lines, he breaks tackles and offloads well... I'd like him to get his hands dirty a bit more early in sets, but as noted many many times.. the squad isnt fit, he's not fit, no one's fit. There is not an 80 minute footballer in our squad based on current conditioning levels.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:25 amHaha. I agree, but turning and running backwards when 10m out from your own line was schoolboy stuff. You should give his ball in hand stats a once over. Clearly not an 80 minute player with that output.Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:07 amExplaining why claims of CHN's being solely responsible for these tries being absolutely laughable but predictable isn't digging.Roger Kenworthy wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:02 am Botman is digging. I expect 3000 words on why CHN was better than Whitehead at 23 for his next post.
But I'll do you one better, i'll give you 5000 words on JUST how predictable the GH is collectively when it comes to player criticisms.
Re: the bolded part. Absolutely fair. It's a bad look, and not to harp on it, but players generally do that when they are gassed, and dont have it in their legs to back pedal fast enough. It's conditioning. But it also had very little to do with the try being scored. We had 5 on 4 advantage, and we should have had a fullback covering as well. There is no reason for that try to be scored whether CHN was running with his back turned or cartwheeling with his junk out.
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Re: CHN
Your wrong again.
The guy makes stupid decisions on top of being unfit and having a low motor...this is aside from the fact the team is unfit to cope with the 6 again rule...
And I can’t wait to have our immortal in waiting CNK come back and immediately improve the collective fitness and decision making of the whole team and coach interchanges too...
Hell, why stop there. See if he can handle the CEO role to so we can start the rebuild...
The guy makes stupid decisions on top of being unfit and having a low motor...this is aside from the fact the team is unfit to cope with the 6 again rule...
And I can’t wait to have our immortal in waiting CNK come back and immediately improve the collective fitness and decision making of the whole team and coach interchanges too...
Hell, why stop there. See if he can handle the CEO role to so we can start the rebuild...
Re: CHN
CNK isnt going to improve the conditioning of the team, or the decision making
I have literally no **** idea where you got that idea from... just a dude frothing at mouth at that point.
He'll improve the defensive line. We'll be better with him there, as a last line defender, as a positional player and as a communicator at the back. It's not going to magically turn us into 2019 Raiders, but we'll improve
I have literally no **** idea where you got that idea from... just a dude frothing at mouth at that point.
He'll improve the defensive line. We'll be better with him there, as a last line defender, as a positional player and as a communicator at the back. It's not going to magically turn us into 2019 Raiders, but we'll improve
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Re: CHN
Now your doubling down on being wrong...
CNK’s best attribute is his hard running from the back, making the early yardage we miss...
This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.
It will pass when you see nothing changes from a defensive standpoint.
CNK’s best attribute is his hard running from the back, making the early yardage we miss...
This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.
It will pass when you see nothing changes from a defensive standpoint.
Re: CHN
I think a massive problem with the defensive line itself and its shape is that players literally cannot get into position quick enough, and don't have enough gas to mentally be aware of the required continual adjustments or the ability to physically carry them out.
Over the past few weeks I've seen players on the outside barking like mad to get numbers over and cover the spaces inside them, but it's not happening. The calls are being heard - they must be. They're just clinging on for dear life, especially once it starts getting deeper into that second half, and can't seem to think beyond simply just getting back the 10.
It's not only the fullback that oversees and polices this, the WHOLE side does it. These players know what numbers are needed when they're in the line, in relation to how the opposition are setting up. They can see the spacings to their left and right, and would train knowing where they need to be in relation to the players alongside them. They have eyes - it's the motor spluttering from a lack of fuel right now.
Over the past few weeks I've seen players on the outside barking like mad to get numbers over and cover the spaces inside them, but it's not happening. The calls are being heard - they must be. They're just clinging on for dear life, especially once it starts getting deeper into that second half, and can't seem to think beyond simply just getting back the 10.
It's not only the fullback that oversees and polices this, the WHOLE side does it. These players know what numbers are needed when they're in the line, in relation to how the opposition are setting up. They can see the spacings to their left and right, and would train knowing where they need to be in relation to the players alongside them. They have eyes - it's the motor spluttering from a lack of fuel right now.
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Re: CHN
Yeah I touched on that in another thread...afgtnk wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:06 pm I think a massive problem with the defensive line itself and its shape is that players literally cannot get into position quick enough, and don't have enough gas to mentally be aware of the required continual adjustments or the ability to physically carry them out.
Over the past few weeks I've seen players on the outside barking like mad to get numbers over and cover the spaces inside them, but it's not happening. The calls are being heard - they must be. They're just clinging on for dear life, especially once it starts getting deeper into that second half, and can't seem to think beyond simply just getting back the 10.
It's not only the fullback that oversees and polices this, the WHOLE side does it. These players know what numbers are needed when they're in the line, in relation to how the opposition are setting up. They can see the spacings to their left and right, and would train knowing where they need to be in relation to the players alongside them. They have eyes - it's the motor spluttering from a lack of fuel right now.
Sutton with Papalli and Guler doesn’t work...too much of the same with slow lateral movement.
Sutton is better off the bench...but if you wait a month, more people will start saying it...
Just like how a month after the fact people a catching up to how unfit as a whole we look ...
Re: CHN
I agree but this entire CNK discourse is very strange, and you guys have taken it far beyond anything reasonableafgtnk wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:06 pm I think a massive problem with the defensive line itself and its shape is that players literally cannot get into position quick enough, and don't have enough gas to mentally be aware of the required continual adjustments or the ability to physically carry them out.
Over the past few weeks I've seen players on the outside barking like mad to get numbers over and cover the spaces inside them, but it's not happening. The calls are being heard - they must be. They're just clinging on for dear life, especially once it starts getting deeper into that second half, and can't seem to think beyond simply just getting back the 10.
It's not only the fullback that oversees and polices this, the WHOLE side does it. These players know what numbers are needed when they're in the line, in relation to how the opposition are setting up. They can see the spacings to their left and right, and would train knowing where they need to be in relation to the players alongside them. They have eyes - it's the motor spluttering from a lack of fuel right now.
Is CNK going to magically fix our defence? No
Is he going to turn it into even being good? No
But flatly refuse to even concede he'll improve us in defence at all is, to be frank, utterly absurd.
No one was on the CNK issues earlier than me, i've been talking on this site since 2019 talking about the weaknesses in his game and how they profoundly impact our attacking game, particularly in the 20's
I've been very open in finding an upgrade on him for 2 years because of these weaknesses. I'm not in the tank for CNK, but any person who is being rational will agree we're going to see some noticable improvement defensively with CNK back over Aekins. And i really dont understand why you and a select few others cant even concede that
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Re: CHN
You brought CNK up in this discussion...
It’s as if you suffered from amnesia the moment after you brought it up...
Yeah we get it, he’s being missed, but not for the reasons your saying...
But take a look, Penrith, Melbourne and Roosters have missed players, South’s too...
Have they imploded like us?
Anyway back to CHN... he’s ****.
Offload now while we can...
It’s as if you suffered from amnesia the moment after you brought it up...
Yeah we get it, he’s being missed, but not for the reasons your saying...
But take a look, Penrith, Melbourne and Roosters have missed players, South’s too...
Have they imploded like us?
Anyway back to CHN... he’s ****.
Offload now while we can...
Re: CHN
I brought CNK because it was relevant to to discussion about our players, particularly in relation to CHN finding himself out of position so often, relates to the work CNK does as a fullback, both positionally to fill in gaps in the front line when required and to communicate where players need to be
I should have known you'd lose your lollies over it, but i'm not ignoring an important part of the issue just to avoid your nonsense.
I should have known you'd lose your lollies over it, but i'm not ignoring an important part of the issue just to avoid your nonsense.
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Re: CHN
Your going to dislocate your shoulders reaching that far....Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:39 pm I brought CNK because it was relevant to to discussion about our players, particularly in relation to CHN finding himself out of position so often, relates to the work CNK does as a fullback, both positionally to fill in gaps in the front line when required and to communicate where players need to be
I should have known you'd lose your lollies over it, but i'm not ignoring an important part of the issue just to avoid your nonsense.
Re: CHN
Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:28 pmI agree but this entire CNK discourse is very strange, and you guys have taken it far beyond anything reasonableafgtnk wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:06 pm I think a massive problem with the defensive line itself and its shape is that players literally cannot get into position quick enough, and don't have enough gas to mentally be aware of the required continual adjustments or the ability to physically carry them out.
Over the past few weeks I've seen players on the outside barking like mad to get numbers over and cover the spaces inside them, but it's not happening. The calls are being heard - they must be. They're just clinging on for dear life, especially once it starts getting deeper into that second half, and can't seem to think beyond simply just getting back the 10.
It's not only the fullback that oversees and polices this, the WHOLE side does it. These players know what numbers are needed when they're in the line, in relation to how the opposition are setting up. They can see the spacings to their left and right, and would train knowing where they need to be in relation to the players alongside them. They have eyes - it's the motor spluttering from a lack of fuel right now.
Is CNK going to magically fix our defence? No
Is he going to turn it into even being good? No
But flatly refuse to even concede he'll improve us in defence at all is, to be frank, utterly absurd.
No one was on the CNK issues earlier than me, i've been talking on this site since 2019 talking about the weaknesses in his game and how they profoundly impact our attacking game, particularly in the 20's
I've been very open in finding an upgrade on him for 2 years because of these weaknesses. I'm not in the tank for CNK, but any person who is being rational will agree we're going to see some noticable improvement defensively with CNK back over Aekins. And i really dont understand why you and a select few others cant even concede that
I haven't said that he won't improve us in defence at all. He will. He's unquestionably a better defensive player than Aekins. Not sure where you've got that from.
What I believe is that he won't improve us such that these results will be overturned, or end up vastly different. It'd be akin to putting one of those little round vaccine plasters on a gaping wound needing four dozen stitches IMO.
I strongly feel this whole 'organising the defensive line' has been mythicised and massively overblown on here. Probably been parroted by a few commentators looking for lines to fill air time, a journo or two doing similar, and it's taken off from there for people to use in order to look like they know the game when talking about it.
NRL players don't wander around aimlessly without a clue as to how and where to defend, waiting for someone to tell them exactly what to do. They're elite professionals who train their entire careers for this exact thing. From close to our try line, where I assume a team profits from most and where our defence is now quite susceptible, a fullback would not even be deep enough to be able see across the line in order to gauge right or wrong positioning - especially as they're now often defending in the actual line.
Even IF they did do this, and the importance of this skill was so crucial to the defensive aspect of the game, such that our entire defence seemingly gets blown to pieces with their absence, Aekins as an NRL player would not be getting a run if he seemingly did not possess it at all. It's the stuff of fantasy.
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Re: CHN
Hell of a stretch to suggest CHN turning his back and running extra unnecessary yards away from the play, was a result of him being tired.
He made a bad defensive decision because he needs to develop further as a player if he’s going to stay in first grade.
He made a bad defensive decision because he needs to develop further as a player if he’s going to stay in first grade.
Re: CHN
The fullback and their role is communicating with the defensive line hasnt been mythicised, nor is it a new idea. It's a long understood part of the game
The team shouldn't fall to pieces without a fullback, and CNK isn't going to come back in here and suddenly we're going to start holding teams to 12-14 again. But the role fullbacks play is defensive lines is substancial.
Not a month ago, this is former NRL HC explaining just how important the role is to defence.
We can all crack jokes about Seibold as a coach. But this is a guy who has seen it and done at an NRL level, he's telling you you're wrong.
The team shouldn't fall to pieces without a fullback, and CNK isn't going to come back in here and suddenly we're going to start holding teams to 12-14 again. But the role fullbacks play is defensive lines is substancial.
Not a month ago, this is former NRL HC explaining just how important the role is to defence.
We can all crack jokes about Seibold as a coach. But this is a guy who has seen it and done at an NRL level, he's telling you you're wrong.
Re: CHN
He's not running away from the play. He's running the fill the gap in the line that he's been occupying in that set. As said, its 5 on 4 out on the left and if Aekins is in position, 6 on 4. We had the numbers, where we lacking in numbers was the middle of the field, which is where he was going.yeh raiders wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 2:22 pm Hell of a stretch to suggest CHN turning his back and running extra unnecessary yards away from the play, was a result of him being tired.
He made a bad defensive decision because he needs to develop further as a player if he’s going to stay in first grade.
Now why he's filling that gap when he's an edge player? That's bad decision making, chasing the football early in the set and then circumstances and his own decision making to continue to chase the football preventing him from getting back into his natural position. That's note worthy and that's something he needs to improve on. But the numbers in the line at that time had us well served on the left, as stated a 5 to 4 advantage and only 3 players protecting the middle of the field.
Re: CHN
I just googled Billy Slater Fullback defence and found this... which is random place: https://www.rebelsport.com.au/blog/foot ... lback.html
"I'm in charge of the defence when I'm back there,"; he said. "You have to feel like you're in charge. If you don't, you're probably not going to be talking to your players with the authority you need to. They're really tired and they're doing all the work in the middle. They need that firm direction to make sure they're getting in the right position."
That's the greatest fullback in modern history telling you he organises the defensive line and helps them get into the right position.
"I'm in charge of the defence when I'm back there,"; he said. "You have to feel like you're in charge. If you don't, you're probably not going to be talking to your players with the authority you need to. They're really tired and they're doing all the work in the middle. They need that firm direction to make sure they're getting in the right position."
That's the greatest fullback in modern history telling you he organises the defensive line and helps them get into the right position.
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Re: CHN
This conversation has completely jumped the shark now... imagine a world where you have to explain to knuckle-heads the importance of a good fullback organising the defensive line.
It's this world, the one we're living in right now... the worst timeline.
It's this world, the one we're living in right now... the worst timeline.
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Re: CHN
Imagine a world where knuckleheads think they need to explain what a fullback does....
Re: CHN
I want to be clear
CNK is not going to turn our season around
He’s not going to magically turn us back into a respectable footy team
He’s not going to stop players like CHN making bad decisions
Or stop players like starling missing easy key 1 on 1 tackles
He’s not going to improve the conditioning of the team
We are going to continue to be a mediocre to bad football team
He will help balance the numbers better, and that should theoretically help better sustain our defensive structure, and probably limit the wandering a player like CHN will do
He will be better positionally to plug holes in the middle and allow everyone to get in their natural structure and he’ll be better positionally to help wrap a ball up and save tries when Tommy starling misses a one on one easy tackle on Ponga
He will help mitigate the impacts of poor fitness, and poor decision making from forwards like CHN, Papalii, Young, Whitehead etc
We’ll be better with him. Not fixed. Not good. But better to a noticeable level
CNK is not going to turn our season around
He’s not going to magically turn us back into a respectable footy team
He’s not going to stop players like CHN making bad decisions
Or stop players like starling missing easy key 1 on 1 tackles
He’s not going to improve the conditioning of the team
We are going to continue to be a mediocre to bad football team
He will help balance the numbers better, and that should theoretically help better sustain our defensive structure, and probably limit the wandering a player like CHN will do
He will be better positionally to plug holes in the middle and allow everyone to get in their natural structure and he’ll be better positionally to help wrap a ball up and save tries when Tommy starling misses a one on one easy tackle on Ponga
He will help mitigate the impacts of poor fitness, and poor decision making from forwards like CHN, Papalii, Young, Whitehead etc
We’ll be better with him. Not fixed. Not good. But better to a noticeable level
Re: CHN
All the discourse we’ve had about CNK on this site would comprehensively show the explanation was sorely needed.GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:09 pm Imagine a world where knuckleheads think they need to explain what a fullback does....
As some people were completely unaware of the role modern day fullbacks play in arranging the defensive line, even on the goal line.
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Re: CHN
Why is any of this relevant?Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 2:47 pm I just googled Billy Slater Fullback defence and found this... which is random place: https://www.rebelsport.com.au/blog/foot ... lback.html
"I'm in charge of the defence when I'm back there,"; he said. "You have to feel like you're in charge. If you don't, you're probably not going to be talking to your players with the authority you need to. They're really tired and they're doing all the work in the middle. They need that firm direction to make sure they're getting in the right position."
That's the greatest fullback in modern history telling you he organises the defensive line and helps them get into the right position.
Firstly, we don't have Billy Slater coaching or playing for us.
Secondly, I don't need you to rabbit on about what you found on Google around fullback play....I understand a fullbacks role. Been playing / watching the game for 30 plus years...
Finally, it still fails to address how poor CHN's defensive game is....as well as his general motor and fitness...the guy makes bad decisions in defence and has been doing so for years at other clubs too...nobody brought up CNK until you decided to build that straw man.
It's such a poor argument I'm genuinely surprised you even brought it up.
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Re: CHN
Please don't assume I don't know what a fullback's role is.Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:19 pmAll the discourse we’ve had about CNK on this site would comprehensively show the explanation was sorely needed.GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:09 pm Imagine a world where knuckleheads think they need to explain what a fullback does....
As some people were completely unaware of the role modern day fullbacks play in arranging the defensive line, even on the goal line.
Also, don't assume I have any hatred for CNK....It's been said ad nauseam that we need him back in the team but on the grand scale of things, it has nothing to do with CHN's performances....that's just a bridge too far that you continue to work on at the expense of your credibility....
Re: CHN
Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:16 amIt is physical. The forwards arent fit. They're being absolutely eaten up in the middle by little men, and yeah, tired players make mental mistakes. The problem isnt really that CHN gets caught inside at times. That's the nature of the game. The problem is he's not able to find his way back, and that's a combination his propensity to chase the football when he's near it, and the poor fitness levels of the team. If he got caught chasing the ball and then realised he was out of position and the rest of the forwards were OK, he'd just get himself back there, but he chases the ball, and when he retreats back into the line all too often he finds himself plugging someone elses hole who's equally unfit and out of position... And when you've got everyone out of position, you're going to be a bad defencetwistedbydesign wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:05 amBotman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 10:23 am Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for.
This is the bit I really don't get, he seemed to be in field regularly throughout the game - in a way that went well beyond just getting 'caught infield' on a play or two. Even if it wasn't the direct cause of the tries, any decent playmaker/coach is surely going to go looking for a halfback whose backrower regularly leaves them exposed?
I'm increasingly of the mind that these issues are physical first - our players are struggling with the speed of the game and making mental errors as a result. CHN is far from on his own in this respect, but unlike others this has been the case consistently since he joined the club.
I think CNK is a huge here, that's one of the best attributes of him as a player. He organises the line really well, and he's able to communicate that and get people lined up properly. But it's compounding issues.
As i keep saying, we might to start looking beyond what's wrong with CHN, Tapine, Papalii, Young, Simo, Wighton, Williams, Whitehead, Hodgson etc al as individual players and trying to fix them all individually.. and start looking at the bigger picture
CNK was brought up literally in context of explaining how he helps mitigate the issues that arise when someone like CHN goes rogue and chases after the ball and getting himself out of position
You of course, being the absolute lunatic that you, lost your lollies at the mere mention of CNK with this... what did you call it? A straw man?
And so here we are... me having to explain to you what a fullback does, citing the modern day GOAT and a former NRL HC explaining what you've and others have been dismissing, because apparently after 30 years of watching the game, you didn't have a **** clueGreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:49 am And I can’t wait to have our immortal in waiting CNK come back and immediately improve the collective fitness and decision making of the whole team and coach interchanges too...
Hell, why stop there. See if he can handle the CEO role to so we can start the rebuild...
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Re: CHN
The discourse lives inside your head...Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:19 pmAll the discourse we’ve had about CNK on this site would comprehensively show the explanation was sorely needed.GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:09 pm Imagine a world where knuckleheads think they need to explain what a fullback does....
As some people were completely unaware of the role modern day fullbacks play in arranging the defensive line, even on the goal line.
I haven't seen/read anywhere comments around how we don't need CNK back...
Nor did I bring him up in this thread in the first place.
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Re: CHN
Again, you are reaching...as I have explained countless times.Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:26 pmBotman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:16 amIt is physical. The forwards arent fit. They're being absolutely eaten up in the middle by little men, and yeah, tired players make mental mistakes. The problem isnt really that CHN gets caught inside at times. That's the nature of the game. The problem is he's not able to find his way back, and that's a combination his propensity to chase the football when he's near it, and the poor fitness levels of the team. If he got caught chasing the ball and then realised he was out of position and the rest of the forwards were OK, he'd just get himself back there, but he chases the ball, and when he retreats back into the line all too often he finds himself plugging someone elses hole who's equally unfit and out of position... And when you've got everyone out of position, you're going to be a bad defencetwistedbydesign wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:05 amBotman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 10:23 am Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for.
This is the bit I really don't get, he seemed to be in field regularly throughout the game - in a way that went well beyond just getting 'caught infield' on a play or two. Even if it wasn't the direct cause of the tries, any decent playmaker/coach is surely going to go looking for a halfback whose backrower regularly leaves them exposed?
I'm increasingly of the mind that these issues are physical first - our players are struggling with the speed of the game and making mental errors as a result. CHN is far from on his own in this respect, but unlike others this has been the case consistently since he joined the club.
I think CNK is a huge here, that's one of the best attributes of him as a player. He organises the line really well, and he's able to communicate that and get people lined up properly. But it's compounding issues.
As i keep saying, we might to start looking beyond what's wrong with CHN, Tapine, Papalii, Young, Simo, Wighton, Williams, Whitehead, Hodgson etc al as individual players and trying to fix them all individually.. and start looking at the bigger picture
CNK was brought up literally in context of explaining how he helps mitigate the issues that arise when someone like CHN goes rogue and chases after the ball and getting himself out of position
You of course, being the absolute lunatic that you, lost your lollies at the mere mention of CNK with this... what did you call it? A straw man?
And so here we are... me having to explain to you what a fullback does, citing the modern day GOAT and a former NRL HC explaining what you've and others have been dismissing, because apparently after 30 years of watching the game, you didn't have a **** clueGreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 11:49 am And I can’t wait to have our immortal in waiting CNK come back and immediately improve the collective fitness and decision making of the whole team and coach interchanges too...
Hell, why stop there. See if he can handle the CEO role to so we can start the rebuild...
You brought him up and I squashed it as rightful nonsense......
Let me be clear:
We miss CNK.
CNK being injured has nothing to do with CHN's poor performances no matter how hard you try to make that equation work.
Re: CHN
If you think CNK's absence has nothing to do with the complete collapse of our defensive structures, of which CHN is apart of. Which again, is not to absolve players of their own individual mistakes and errors. Then you need hit the books for another 30 years... because ummm...
This...
CHN is said to have been responsible for 2 tries in that Knights game.
One he had absolutely no role in, the other his impact is there but it's trumped by at least 4 other players who contributed far more heavily to the try than he. And last week we chalked him up for 2 tries because apparently when we concede a penalty, the right hand defensive side are obligated to mistackles and give up tries. They're not allow to actually defend the penalty like every other team and the players who did miss the tackles and did concede the tries get their failures hand waved because we just dont like CHN.
I dont care how much people dislike him. There is plenty of fair criticism to go his way. He is dreadfully unfit, along with all our forwards. He does make bad decisions. We knew that coming in, i spoke about that being the thing that the GH Collective is going to hate about him.
We aren't using him effectively in attack because our halves are dreadful ball players. And he's not looking for involvement early in sets (probably to do with his fitness, as none of the forwards are really putting their hand up early)
But im not going sit here and read a bunch of nonsense, and ridiculous finger pointing when the events dont match the blame, and not call it as such.
And when someone starts dismissing the role fullbacks have in organising a defensive line... well that's just fun and games then, you cant get better than that!
This...
That ain't it.GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:05 pm This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.
CHN is said to have been responsible for 2 tries in that Knights game.
One he had absolutely no role in, the other his impact is there but it's trumped by at least 4 other players who contributed far more heavily to the try than he. And last week we chalked him up for 2 tries because apparently when we concede a penalty, the right hand defensive side are obligated to mistackles and give up tries. They're not allow to actually defend the penalty like every other team and the players who did miss the tackles and did concede the tries get their failures hand waved because we just dont like CHN.
I dont care how much people dislike him. There is plenty of fair criticism to go his way. He is dreadfully unfit, along with all our forwards. He does make bad decisions. We knew that coming in, i spoke about that being the thing that the GH Collective is going to hate about him.
We aren't using him effectively in attack because our halves are dreadful ball players. And he's not looking for involvement early in sets (probably to do with his fitness, as none of the forwards are really putting their hand up early)
But im not going sit here and read a bunch of nonsense, and ridiculous finger pointing when the events dont match the blame, and not call it as such.
And when someone starts dismissing the role fullbacks have in organising a defensive line... well that's just fun and games then, you cant get better than that!
- GreenMachine
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Re: CHN
That part there is your straw man...Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:37 pm If you think CNK's absence has nothing to do with the complete collapse of our defensive structures, of which CHN is apart of. Which again, is not to absolve players of their own individual mistakes and errors. Then you need hit the books for another 30 years... because ummm...
This...That ain't it.GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 12:05 pm This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.
CHN is said to have been responsible for 2 tries in that Knights game.
One he had absolutely no role in, the other his impact is there but it's trumped by at least 4 other players who contributed far more heavily to the try than he. And last week we chalked him up for 2 tries because apparently when we concede a penalty, the right hand defensive side are obligated to mistackles and give up tries. They're not allow to actually defend the penalty like every other team and the players who did miss the tackles and did concede the tries get their failures hand waved because we just dont like CHN.
I dont care how much people dislike him. There is plenty of fair criticism to go his way. He is dreadfully unfit, along with all our forwards. He does make bad decisions. We knew that coming in, i spoke about that being the thing that the GH Collective is going to hate about him.
We aren't using him effectively in attack because our halves are dreadful ball players. And he's not looking for involvement early in sets (probably to do with his fitness, as none of the forwards are really putting their hand up early)
But im not going sit here and read a bunch of nonsense, and ridiculous finger pointing when the events dont match the blame, and not call it as such.
And when someone starts dismissing the role fullbacks have in organising a defensive line... well that's just fun and games then, you cant get better than that!
Rather than focus on CHN (which is what this thread is about) you go off on a tangent just to sound the fog horn around a point that has been done to death. Then you proceed to give us a tutorial on the role of a fullback as if we don't understand the point your making...
Let me simplify it for you:
I don't believe CNK's absence has anything to do with CHN's poor performances, particularly in defence. CNK wasn't playing for the Bulldogs or Penrith last I checked, when all these known issues were around...
Re: CHN
Fine, since you've taken an absolute **** bath on the fullback situation and are wisely wishing to avoid that embarrassment (as well you should because hooo boy, thats embarrassing for a dude who's watched this game for 30 years.)
Lets stick to CHN
We can all agree that CHN is unfit
I would counter that by saying the entire squad is unfit which we also all agree to, so why are we singling him out for this given its clearly a systemic conditioning issue in the squad?
Papalii, Whitehead, Lui, Tapine, CHN, Young, Hors. They're all unfit imo. Even Guler who is usually high motor is struggling with some long minutes. James and Sutton are about the only forwards who look fit. So again, why is he being singled out? Because we decided long ago we didnt like him.
We can all agree that CHN can make some poor decisions defensively.
Thus far none of them have resulted in tries, he's about the only one who's actually not yet conceded a try directly. He's clean on Try Causes. One of only a handful which include mostly players who have played limited limits (Lui, Hors and Sia... Shouts to Hodgson and Tapine who also are clean here). That's probably coincidental because no one would accuse him of being a shut down defensive player, but he's defending far better than most the squad.
He has not directly been responsible for a single try scored against us. But because we don't like him, we want to draw long bows about how he's responsible for tries because he gave a penalty away. We don't attribute tries to anyone else based on penalties, otherwise Hudson Young's try causes might be in mid teens!
We're not obligated to concede a try because we concede a penalty. CHN does hurt the team with penalties and decision making, he needs to improve that. He's not responsible for other people missing their assignments. And the level of blame he's receiving is grossly disproportionate to the actual game.
Lets stick to CHN
We can all agree that CHN is unfit
I would counter that by saying the entire squad is unfit which we also all agree to, so why are we singling him out for this given its clearly a systemic conditioning issue in the squad?
Papalii, Whitehead, Lui, Tapine, CHN, Young, Hors. They're all unfit imo. Even Guler who is usually high motor is struggling with some long minutes. James and Sutton are about the only forwards who look fit. So again, why is he being singled out? Because we decided long ago we didnt like him.
We can all agree that CHN can make some poor decisions defensively.
Thus far none of them have resulted in tries, he's about the only one who's actually not yet conceded a try directly. He's clean on Try Causes. One of only a handful which include mostly players who have played limited limits (Lui, Hors and Sia... Shouts to Hodgson and Tapine who also are clean here). That's probably coincidental because no one would accuse him of being a shut down defensive player, but he's defending far better than most the squad.
He has not directly been responsible for a single try scored against us. But because we don't like him, we want to draw long bows about how he's responsible for tries because he gave a penalty away. We don't attribute tries to anyone else based on penalties, otherwise Hudson Young's try causes might be in mid teens!
We're not obligated to concede a try because we concede a penalty. CHN does hurt the team with penalties and decision making, he needs to improve that. He's not responsible for other people missing their assignments. And the level of blame he's receiving is grossly disproportionate to the actual game.
- GreenMachine
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Re: CHN
Your shadow boxing on the fullback discussion...Botman wrote: ↑May 10, 2021, 3:58 pm Fine, since you've taken an absolute **** bath on the fullback situation and are wisely wishing to avoid that embarrassment (as well you should because hooo boy, thats embarrassing for a dude who's watched this game for 30 years.)
Lets stick to CHN
We can all agree that CHN is unfit
I would counter that by saying the entire squad is unfit which we also all agree to, so why are we singling him out for this given its clearly a systemic conditioning issue in the squad?
Papalii, Whitehead, Lui, Tapine, CHN, Young, Hors. They're all unfit imo. Even Guler who is usually high motor is struggling with some long minutes. James and Sutton are about the only forwards who look fit. So again, why is he being singled out? Because we decided long ago we didnt like him.
We can all agree that CHN can make some poor decisions defensively.
Thus far none of them have resulted in tries, he's about the only one who's actually not yet conceded a try directly. He's clean on Try Causes. One of only a handful which include mostly players who have played limited limits (Lui, Hors and Sia... Shouts to Hodgson and Tapine who also are clean here). That's probably coincidental because no one would accuse him of being a shut down defensive player, but he's defending far better than most the squad.
He has not directly been responsible for a single try scored against us. But because we don't like him, we want to draw long bows about how he's responsible for tries because he gave a penalty away. We don't attribute tries to anyone else based on penalties, otherwise Hudson Young's try causes might be in mid teens!
We're not obligated to concede a try because we concede a penalty. CHN does hurt the team with penalties and decision making, he needs to improve that. He's not responsible for other people missing their assignments. And the level of blame he's receiving is grossly disproportionate to the actual game.
Please read my opening comment about CHN and then ask Billy Slater how you wandered so far out of course...
Re: CHN
maybe I’ll just ask him what he thinks about this:
“This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.”
I’m sure he’ll get a good ol chuckle at it.
I sure have. That one won’t soon be forgotten.
“This whole organising defence is a typical 1+1=3 GH moment.”
I’m sure he’ll get a good ol chuckle at it.
I sure have. That one won’t soon be forgotten.
- GreenMachine
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Re: CHN
You've given all of us a good chuckle this afternoon, so if that was your objective then kudos to you.