CHN

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CHN

Post by Coastalraider »

I’ve been liking a lot of his game since he’s been back, but in the last 2 weeks he has been directly responsible for 2 tries per match. 2 last week with the stupid penalties for ruck infringements, and 2 This week where he was slow and lazy to get back into the line after a tackle midfield, and the knights were smart enough to hit the gap beside Williams where CHN was supposed to be.

He’s far from the only one making low effort, lazy errors like this, but that’s 24 points over his head in 2 weeks.
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

I have to say it must be nice for the blokes missing tackles on the goal line to be able get their failures hand waved because CHN gave a dumb penalty away 4 tackles prior, or that he was out of the play due to making the tackle previously and the opposition got a quick play the ball

Players are left on the ground after a tackle and out of the play literally every set, including on the goal line. Teams give away plenty of dumb penalties too (though admittedly not as many as we do, and that’s definitely a valid criticism of CHN)
Funnily enough you don’t see the panthers, roosters or storm immediately concede tries because of it. Might be something more to this than just the players
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Re: CHN

Post by Aero »

CHN might be better of moving to lock or prop than keeping him on the edge. He's had the tendency to move in field in defence to help out (which is great) but leaves his edge vulnerable (which is bad).

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GreenMachine
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

He’s a dud.
I’m calling it early and happy to be proven wrong.
Dumb player, lacks fitness and lacks game awareness.
Low motor and a liability in defence around the edges...
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Re: CHN

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

Don't think his defence is up to standard. I said so during the game. Agree with Green Machine's comments above but not willing to make an early judgment yet as I still remember he won on his own at the Bulldogs (v Souths) and for Penrith (against us).
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Re: CHN

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Aero wrote: May 9, 2021, 9:42 am CHN might be better of moving to lock or prop than keeping him on the edge. He's had the tendency to move in field in defence to help out (which is great) but leaves his edge vulnerable (which is bad).

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Yeah but then we saw him defending in the middle of the field when the Knights were coming off their line and just innocuously ran through him.

He doesn’t bring enough with ball in hand to outweigh his bad defensive decision making and ill discipline. Seems to be a Sticky favourite though so he’ll be there again next week.
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Re: CHN

Post by mongoose »

GreenMachine wrote: May 9, 2021, 9:43 am He’s a dud.
I’m calling it early and happy to be proven wrong.
Dumb player, lacks fitness and lacks game awareness.
Low motor and a liability in defence around the edges...
i'm not sure he's a dud but he had 4 runs for 28m yesterday, last week was similar.. he needs to do better
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

mongoose wrote: May 9, 2021, 10:47 am
GreenMachine wrote: May 9, 2021, 9:43 am He’s a dud.
I’m calling it early and happy to be proven wrong.
Dumb player, lacks fitness and lacks game awareness.
Low motor and a liability in defence around the edges...
i'm not sure he's a dud but he had 4 runs for 28m yesterday, last week was similar.. he needs to do better
Don’t worry...most people are usually a month behind...
Please feel free to report back here in a months time...
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Re: CHN

Post by Drandyt »

GreenMachine wrote: May 9, 2021, 9:43 am He’s a dud.
I’m calling it early and happy to be proven wrong.
Dumb player, lacks fitness and lacks game awareness.
Low motor and a liability in defence around the edges...
Wow, thankyou - I thought I was going mad with all the CHN love on this forum.
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Re: CHN

Post by Drandyt »

mongoose wrote: May 9, 2021, 10:47 am
GreenMachine wrote: May 9, 2021, 9:43 am He’s a dud.
I’m calling it early and happy to be proven wrong.
Dumb player, lacks fitness and lacks game awareness.
Low motor and a liability in defence around the edges...
i'm not sure he's a dud but he had 4 runs for 28m yesterday, last week was similar.. he needs to do better
its not about his runs. He takes forever to get up and back in the line. He has been indirectly responsible for a number of trys - i.e. the Ponga try this week.
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Re: CHN

Post by julian87 »

The thing is the team completely nullifies what he’s good at. He’s one of the best line running second rowers in rugby league and he’s playing off a half who is utterly incapable of playing straight and creating a line break assist.

It’s the Simonsson situation all over again. He’s getting zero opportunity to actually do what he’s good at and getting panned for it.

Does he have deficiencies? Yes. Is he a dud? No, no he’s not.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: CHN

Post by julian87 »

And I’ll argue all day and night that the biggest problem that sees the second rowers caught in field is the fact that the team isn’t using a lock. Lock has been the biggest positional change in rugby league with the rule changes and Stuart is consistently picking 3rd props there.

Brandon Smith, Cam Murray, Connor Watson, Victor Radley, Tyrone Peachey, Isaiah Yeo.

That’s your 2021 prototype and we’re picking Ryan Sutton.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: CHN

Post by Raiders666 »

CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
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Re: CHN

Post by kiwi raider »

julian87 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:26 am And I’ll argue all day and night that the biggest problem that sees the second rowers caught in field is the fact that the team isn’t using a lock. Lock has been the biggest positional change in rugby league with the rule changes and Stuart is consistently picking 3rd props there.

Brandon Smith, Cam Murray, Connor Watson, Victor Radley, Tyrone Peachey, Isaiah Yeo.

That’s your 2021 prototype and we’re picking Ryan Sutton.
I'm not sure we've got that type of player in our squad though.
Our best option imo is Hodgson as a ball player for 30-40mins a game (after starting at hooker), doesn't have the running ability of those types but i reckon he'd provide a link and allow Williams to play a more natural wider position and open up a bit of space out wide for both halves by asking a few questions in the middle
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Re: CHN

Post by The Nickman »

Raiders666 wrote:CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
Rocky Stewart happened
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

julian87 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:20 am The thing is the team completely nullifies what he’s good at. He’s one of the best line running second rowers in rugby league and he’s playing off a half who is utterly incapable of playing straight and creating a line break assist.

It’s the Simonsson situation all over again. He’s getting zero opportunity to actually do what he’s good at and getting panned for it.

Does he have deficiencies? Yes. Is he a dud? No, no he’s not.
With all due respect, I didn't even mention his attack, which I'd agree suffers from our lack of ability to find him the right avenues to run through.
His defence is shockingly bad. So bad, I'd argue it isn't worth any upside you get from his attack.
He has zero motor (compare him to Whitehead who can run all day and offer repeat efforts over and over again).
And don't get me started on his ill discipline.
The guy is a dud and absolutely not what we need on the edge.
You are correct about our lack of a No.13.
Sutton is not a modern No.13. He is too slow laterally and our defence through the middle has suffers while he's been forced to play long minutes at 13. You can't run with Papalli, Sutton and Guler in the middle at the same time
Hudson Young should be starting at 13 as he'd be the closest thing to what the modern game needs at the moment. Now he has his issues, but low motor isn't one of them...
Our squad is too middle heavy and unfortunately, they almost all operate the same way with very little differentiation...No ball players, no consistent offloaders, no speed...We corned the market in battering rams so we could play one out, "lock the ball" high completion rate football...
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:46 am CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
He stopped running off Cleary and Luai...
Only Gus was sad to see him leave...the real brains trust at Penrith were pleased he received a monster offer that they couldn't match.
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Re: CHN

Post by Raiders666 »

GreenMachine wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:02 am
Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:46 am CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
He stopped running off Cleary and Luai...
Only Gus was sad to see him leave...the real brains trust at Penrith were pleased he received a monster offer that they couldn't match.
He was at his best at the Bulldogs
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

Funny to highlight Whitehead defensively for his effort plays and motor

CHN averages 30 tackles to Whitehead's 28. They both miss on average 3 tackles per game.
Whitehead has 5 try causes and 6 line break causes, CHN has 0 and 2 respectively (granted thats 3 games vs 9, but you dont need to be a mathematician to figure out who's performing worse)
Whitehead has 10 errors, CHN 1
Whitehead has 0 penalties, CHN has 5

So discipline aside, which is absolutely appalling and needs to be sorted (i think 4 of those came in the one game).. it's pretty ugly stuff... for Elliott that is.
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:11 am
GreenMachine wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:02 am
Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:46 am CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
He stopped running off Cleary and Luai...
Only Gus was sad to see him leave...the real brains trust at Penrith were pleased he received a monster offer that they couldn't match.
He was at his best at the Bulldogs
The bulldogs were trash through that whole period...do I want to see our club reach that level with him in our side?
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:11 am Funny to highlight Whitehead defensively for his effort plays and motor

CHN averages 30 tackles to Whitehead's 28. They both miss on average 3 tackles per game.
Whitehead has 5 try causes and 6 line break causes, CHN has 0 and 2 respectively (granted thats 3 games vs 9, but you dont need to be a mathematician to figure out who's performing worse)
Whitehead has 10 errors, CHN 1
Whitehead has 0 penalties, CHN has 5

So discipline aside, which is absolutely appalling and needs to be sorted (i think 4 of those came in the one game).. it's pretty ugly stuff... for Elliott that is.
Whitehead has certainly regressed this season in particular....I brought this up in a thread weeks ago and was laughed at.
I'd suggest this has a lot to do with our slow middle defence...
My point was around Whiteheads motor and historically (not this season) he has been our best.
CHN has never shown that anywhere relevant....or anywhere at all....the Bulldogs were pooh and Penrith were happy he was leaving.
Your stats are flawed both in size and context.
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

The stats are the stats
You can do with them as you please, but they are what they are.
Whitehead is a damn good player, great motor, good footy smarts, sound tackler... and he's absolutely lost at sea out there.

Young has a tremendous motor, just absolutely huffing and puffing at the end of long stints. Tapine and Papalii, both noted players for being impact players late in games... nothing by the end of the game. Just running on fumes. These guys are all struggling. Again... perhaps we need to look at this beyond individual players.
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

Funnily enough i just re-watched the knights try's in question and here's how they happened as i see it...

Crossland's try... CHN makes a tackle, and is a one man marker on the 2nd to last play, he quite rightly realises this and doesn't split as a marker, he simply backs up into space to protect both the a and b gap. That's exactly what you want him to do, chasing one side or the other exposes the gap behind the markers.

Next play, Brailey goes from hooker, and runs straight at CHN backing up. He makes the tackle again, attempts to slow the play the ball down, is called out by the official. Quick play the ball, he's out of the play, and they go left, Williams comes in on a bad read, Scott is slow to react. Try is scored. They had the numbers, the ball movement wasnt particularly special. We just had a misread compounded by slow reactions time from Scott.
There is not a coach alive that's going to pin any of that on CHN. Not one.

Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for. But lets look at the lead up plays... he's caught in middle and the knights are marching, Watson makes a half break, ankle tapped by CHN. Tackle completed, CHN is offside and out of play, he comes back onside into the middle of the field where the hole in the line is. Well why does he do that? Why not go to his edge?

This is why, Ponga gets the ball on an offload, turns it back inside to Barnett who probably scores if CHN isn't plugging that hole, CHN tackles low, Barnett gets a good offload to Crosslands, who's tackled by Hors about 5-6 metres up field, CHN is again due to circumstances, out the play but he's off the ground and moving to get back onside. Back turned but he's moving into the middle. Which is fine because we've got the numbers on his edge and the middle is wide open, if he goes to the edge, and this ball comes back to the middle, it's Papalii, Hors and Aekins defending virtually the entire middle 3rd... not great Bob... the ball goes left. And they have Ponga, Fitzgibbon, Best and Musgrove against Papalii coming from marker, Starling, Williams, Scott and Rapana. And we SHOULD have a fullback somewhere in the picture too...

It's 4 on 5, should be 4 on 6 with some fullback cover... So who is the blame for this try? There's a few.

But in order IMO Starling... He's one on one, he's in good position. He should be able to come up aggressively and either force Ponga to pass or make the tackle. He's on his heels half takes the dummy and the try is scored.
Papalii... coming across from marker, and he's just too slow, and he kind of gave up on the play, almost like he's not fit enough.
Thirdly, Aekins... like where you my dude? This is goal line stand. He for reasons unknown to anyone else jumps 2-3 metres to the right after the play the ball when the hooker is only ever looking left and Ponga is standing left. The knights are a simple team here... the ball goes where Ponga is inside the 10. If he's in position he has a great chance to hold up Ponga.
And finally, yeah CHN owns a little of that too, he got caught chasing the footy inside and got stuck in the middle through circumstances and subsequently he's unable to impact the play. He's got to focus on his own responsibilities and not go chasing the football like a dog and bone in the middle.

when you're unfit collectively as a football team, and poorly coached, errors compound on top of errors and soft tries are scored. We have not been an unfit or poorly coached football team in the last 3 years. But we are this year and the results are as they are. This is not about individual players, contrary to what the coach wants to tell us. This is a systemic issue in the club... what remains unknown is if Stuart can right the ship, is this just a one off bad year where we got the conditioning wrong and Stuart has just failed to adapt or is it more?
Last edited by Botman on May 10, 2021, 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CHN

Post by Northern Raider »

GreenMachine wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:02 am
Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:46 am CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
He stopped running off Cleary and Luai...
Only Gus was sad to see him leave...the real brains trust at Penrith were pleased he received a monster offer that they couldn't match.
Did he ever play with Luai at Panthers? It was more James Maloney from memory.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:12 am The stats are the stats
You can do with them as you please, but they are what they are.
Whitehead is a damn good player, great motor, good footy smarts, sound tackler... and he's absolutely lost at sea out there.

Young has a tremendous motor, just absolutely huffing and puffing at the end of long stints. Tapine and Papalii, both noted players for being impact players late in games... nothing by the end of the game. Just running on fumes. These guys are all struggling. Again... perhaps we need to look at this beyond individual players.
There's no question that the bench use this season has been negligent and it's impacting player performances across the park. Along with a number of other things discussed across a number of threads now...
All that aside CHN is a luxury we can't afford....square peg in a round hole when you look at how to best utilise him and how we actually play.
Throw in the ill discipline, poor tackle technique and low motor...he is prime Tigers material.
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Northern Raider wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:26 am
GreenMachine wrote: May 10, 2021, 9:02 am
Raiders666 wrote: May 10, 2021, 7:46 am CHN used to be an amazing player...Not sure what's happened
He stopped running off Cleary and Luai...
Only Gus was sad to see him leave...the real brains trust at Penrith were pleased he received a monster offer that they couldn't match.
Did he ever play with Luai at Panthers? It was more James Maloney from memory.
Your probably right...doesn't matter, both can put a man through a hole.
Our halves lack that finesse...
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:23 am Funnily enough i just re-watched the knights try's in question and here's how they happened as i see it...

Crossland's try... CHN makes a tackle, and is a one man marker on the 2nd to last play, he quite rightly realises this and doesn't split as a marker, he simply backs up into space to protect both the a and b gap. That's exactly what you want him to do, chasing one side or the other exposes the gap behind the markers.

Next play, Brailey goes from hooker, and runs straight at CHN backing up. He makes the tackle again, attempts to slow the play the ball down, is called out by the official. Quick play the ball, he's out of the play, and they go left, Williams comes in on a bad read, Scott is slow to react. Try is scored. They had the numbers, the ball movement wasnt particularly special. We just had a misread compounded by slow reactions time from Scott.
There is not a coach alive that's going to pin any of that on CHN. Not one.

Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for. But lets look at the lead up plays... he's caught in middle and the knights are marching, Watson makes a half break, ankle tapped by CHN. Tackle completed, CHN is offside and out of play, he comes back onside into the middle of the field where the hole in the line is. Well why does he do that? Why not go to his edge?

This is why, Ponga gets the ball on an offload, turns it back inside to Barnett who probably scores if CHN isn't plugging that hole, CHN tackles low, Barnett gets a good offload to Crosslands, who's tackled by Hors about 5-6 metres up field, CHN is again due to circumstances, out the play but he's off the ground and moving to get back onside. Back turned but he's moving into the middle. Which is fine because we've got the numbers on his edge and the middle is wide open, if he goes to the edge, and this ball comes back to the middle, it's Papalii, Hors and Aekins defending virtually the entire middle 3rd... not great Bob... the ball goes left. And they have Ponga, Fitzgibbon, Best and Musgrove against Papalii coming from marker, Starling, Williams, Scott and Rapana. And we SHOULD have a fullback somewhere in the picture too...

It's 4 on 5, should be 4 on 6 with some fullback cover... So who is the blame for this try? There's a few.

But in order IMO Starling... He's one on one, he's in good position. He should be able to come up aggressively and either force Ponga to pass or make the tackle. He's on his heels half takes the dummy and the try is scored.
Papalii... coming across from marker, and he's just too slow, and he kind of gave up on the play, almost like he's not fit enough.
Thirdly, Aekins... like where you my dude? This is goal line stand. He for reasons unknown to anyone else jumps 2-3 metres to the right after the play the ball when the hooker is only ever looking left and Ponga is standing left. The knights are a simple team here... the ball goes where Ponga is inside the 10. If he's in position he has a great chance to hold up Ponga.
And finally, yeah CHN owns a little of that too, he got caught chasing the footy inside and got stuck in the middle through circumstances and subsequently he's unable to impact the play. He's got to focus on his own responsibilities and not go chasing the football like a dog and bone in the middle.

when you're unfit collectively as a football team, and poorly coached, errors compound on top of errors and soft tries are scored. We have not been an unfit or poorly coached football team in the last 3 years. But we are this year and the results are as they are. This is not about individual players, contrary to what the coach wants to tell us. This is a systemic issue in the club... what remains unknown is if Stuart can right the ship, is this just a one off bad year where we got the conditioning wrong and Stuart has just failed to adapt or is it more?
Don't do it to yourself...
We all wanted him to be the Bateman solution, but he clearly isn't.
Smart clubs move on quickly....dumb clubs keep "sticking together" and "bleeding green"....
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

You could try addressing the points raised. But i suspect i know why you dont.

And FWIW i never wanted or thought him to be a Bateman solution. Said it many times they he simply couldn't and wouldn't be a Bateman solution or a player on Bateman's level. He's a completely different style of player. I said he was the best low cost, high upside player we could obtain to replace him, and that if used correctly he'd be a good player for us. And i still believe that to be the case. Just as i believe a bunch of other super talented players in this team who are under performing badly can still bounce back with better conditioning and coaching.
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Re: CHN

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:37 am You could try addressing the points raised. But i suspect i know why you dont.

And FWIW i never wanted or thought him to be a Bateman solution. Said it many times they he simply couldn't and wouldn't be a Bateman solution or a player on Bateman's level. He's a completely different style of player. I said he was the best low cost, high upside player we could obtain to replace him, and that if used correctly he'd be a good player for us. And i still believe that to be the case. Just as i believe a bunch of other super talented players in this team who are under performing badly can still bounce back with better conditioning and coaching.
What points?
You think game situations happen in a vacuum?
Point to any situation in a game and find 3 or 4 reasons for why it happens...so what? You can tile the Ocean floor too if you feel it needs it....
The guy is a noted poor reader of defence (go and see the initial threads when he joined and the Bulldogs / Penrith threads)...
He can't do his "best work" in attack with our tools (halves that don't find holes).
Sure he was low cost...but you get what you paid for sometimes...
Why do you want to be stuck with a square peg or a round hole?
The squad should be moulded to become faster, more agile and move the ball around the ruck with forwards moving in numbers (often decoys, which calls for repeat effort).
If you think he can get there with another offseason, then you have way more faith than I do.
Write off the cost now and find solutions to our problems instead of cheap options in the discount bin.
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

Papalii, Tapine, Young, Whitehead, Williams, Wighton and Hodgson are all quality footballers who are playing well off their best. Barely at 50% of their best imo.

The forwards look unfit, and the play makers dont really know who's in charge. That's coaching, that's conditioning, are we going to throw them all out with the bath water? Im not. I think we can salvage all of them with better coaching.

So it stands the reason that filters down to the lower tiers of player quality on our roster. I think guys like CHN, and Simo, and Horsbrough and guys like that can also made strides and improve with better coaching.
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Re: CHN

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

Botman is digging. I expect 3000 words on why CHN was better than Whitehead at 23 for his next post.
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Re: CHN

Post by twistedbydesign »

Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:23 am Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for.
This is the bit I really don't get, he seemed to be in field regularly throughout the game - in a way that went well beyond just getting 'caught infield' on a play or two. Even if it wasn't the direct cause of the tries, any decent playmaker/coach is surely going to go looking for a halfback whose backrower regularly leaves them exposed?

I'm increasingly of the mind that these issues are physical first - our players are struggling with the speed of the game and making mental errors as a result. CHN is far from on his own in this respect, but unlike others this has been the case consistently since he joined the club.
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Botman
Mal Meninga
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

Roger Kenworthy wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:02 am Botman is digging. I expect 3000 words on why CHN was better than Whitehead at 23 for his next post.
Explaining why claims of CHN's being solely responsible for these tries being absolutely laughable but predictable isn't digging.

But I'll do you one better, i'll give you 5000 words on JUST how predictable the GH is collectively when it comes to player criticisms.
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Luffto
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Re: CHN

Post by Luffto »

I personally like CHN's hair.
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Botman
Mal Meninga
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Re: CHN

Post by Botman »

twistedbydesign wrote: May 10, 2021, 11:05 am
Botman wrote: May 10, 2021, 10:23 am Ponga try... He's defending in the middle the entire set. I don't know why that is, but he's active the entire set in the middle, he's actually active on the right hand side of the field at times... is this him going rogue and getting himself caught in the middle chasing the ball? Yeah i think that's probably what happened and so that's fair to criticise him for.
This is the bit I really don't get, he seemed to be in field regularly throughout the game - in a way that went well beyond just getting 'caught infield' on a play or two. Even if it wasn't the direct cause of the tries, any decent playmaker/coach is surely going to go looking for a halfback whose backrower regularly leaves them exposed?

I'm increasingly of the mind that these issues are physical first - our players are struggling with the speed of the game and making mental errors as a result. CHN is far from on his own in this respect, but unlike others this has been the case consistently since he joined the club.
It is physical. The forwards arent fit. They're being absolutely eaten up in the middle by little men, and yeah, tired players make mental mistakes. The problem isnt really that CHN gets caught inside at times. That's the nature of the game. The problem is he's not able to find his way back, and that's a combination his propensity to chase the football when he's near it, and the poor fitness levels of the team. If he got caught chasing the ball and then realised he was out of position and the rest of the forwards were OK, he'd just get himself back there, but he chases the ball, and when he retreats back into the line all too often he finds himself plugging someone elses hole who's equally unfit and out of position... And when you've got everyone out of position, you're going to be a bad defence

I think CNK is a huge here, that's one of the best attributes of him as a player. He organises the line really well, and he's able to communicate that and get people lined up properly. But it's compounding issues.

As i keep saying, we might to start looking beyond what's wrong with CHN, Tapine, Papalii, Young, Simo, Wighton, Williams, Whitehead, Hodgson etc al as individual players and trying to fix them all individually.. and start looking at the bigger picture
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