Too much depth?

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Raiders666
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Too much depth?

Post by Raiders666 »

Ricky was lauded for building tremendous depth at the beginning of the season especially in the forwards...
Could this have created our undoing? Does Ricky have too many options? Has he confused himself? His use of the bench certainly suggest as much..
Has too much competition upset the players? It might be too much to keep them all happy 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Too much Depth?

Post by Finchy »

We’re two middles too heavy, too light in the backs. Probs a knee jerk reaction to having so many injured middles last year
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Re: Too much Depth?

Post by Botman »

His use of the bench has never been good. Even in our GF run, you could set your watch to it.
It's never been a strong point and nothing about the middle depth has changed that. He's got very little bench variation. You can go back 5 years and his rotation in a game without injuries is pretty much the same.

Re selections: You might not agree with his selections and how he's managing the squad, certainly i dont agree... but i find the idea that he's just sitting there with the team sheet in front of him and just becomes overwhelmed with the choices that he's "confused" and panics to be completely and totally **** ridiculous

He's not picking the best 17 imo, he's not using his bench well... it's not because he's confused and overwhelmed with options. It's because he hangs on to players who have done the job for him before too long, that was his MO at the roosters, he spoke about how it cost him his job, he hung on to players who'd won him a title too long, and he's repeating his mistake. He's too loyal and too stubborn, and regarding the bench usage, he's never had a plan b, c or d... he runs his bench roughly the same way he's run it for 10 years.

He's not dropping Tapine and Papalii because he's confused. He's dropped them because he doesnt think they're playing up to their standard and that's his got to move for underperforming high profile forwards. He's not chopping and changing the forwards because he's confused, he's chopping and changing them because the team is underperforming and he's run out of ideas on how to fix it.

Do we have too much depth? in the middle, yes we do. It was identified in the pre season that we were overly stacked in that area but lacked in other spots. To write off the selection and particularly the bench usage as "confusion" is to ignore and excuse his entire coaching history
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Re: Too much Depth?

Post by Billy Walker »

Yeah I don’t subscribe to the view that Ricky is confused about who to pick but I don’t disregard your suggestion that having quality players missing out each week might be ruffling feathers and dividing opinions among the group.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by greeneyed »

I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.

The rotation is another problem.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Billy Walker »

If for arguments sake Lui wasn’t happy about the lack of game time he is seeing that wouldn’t be the end of the world if the only outcome was Lui’s bottom lip dragging. It does become an issue if others in the squad (perhaps Papa) become disillusioned on Lui’s behalf.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Botman »

greeneyed wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:46 pm I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.

The rotation is another problem.
100% Agree
It’s poor decision making, it’s poor man management
It’s finding the wrong solution to the problem
It’s not confusion or too many options. It’s just a coach making bad decisions
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Too much depth?

Post by BJ »

Billy Walker wrote:If for arguments sake Lui wasn’t happy about the lack of game time he is seeing that wouldn’t be the end of the world if the only outcome was Lui’s bottom lip dragging. It does become an issue if others in the squad (perhaps Papa) become disillusioned on Lui’s behalf.
Noting that Lui has performed well when back in reserve grade and even Stuart publicly praised his attitude and professionalism to being dropped.

I know it’s for arguments sake but I don’t want to see people claim that Lui’s been dragging his bottom lip, if it’s not necessarily true.

What we have seen is that Papa and Tapine need to worry about their own performances and effort areas in games, not worry about others. (Which I don’t know if they have or haven’t). I personally think Papa needed a mental rest not a boxing match in the off season.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Billy Walker »

BJ wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:51 pm
Billy Walker wrote:If for arguments sake Lui wasn’t happy about the lack of game time he is seeing that wouldn’t be the end of the world if the only outcome was Lui’s bottom lip dragging. It does become an issue if others in the squad (perhaps Papa) become disillusioned on Lui’s behalf.
Noting that Lui has performed well when back in reserve grade and even Stuart publicly praised his attitude and professionalism to being dropped.

I know it’s for arguments sake but I don’t want to see people claim that Lui’s been dragging his bottom lip, if it’s not necessarily true.

What we have seen is that Papa and Tapine need to worry about their own performances and effort areas in games, not worry about others. (Which I don’t know if they have or haven’t). I personally think Papa needed a mental rest not a boxing match in the off season.
Yeah was truly an argument sake example BJ - could just as easily picked Timoko or anyone else who might be feeling they deserve more game time. I hope Lui is included in the team named tomorrow and think the team will be better for it if he is.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by BJ »

Good call Billy.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by BadnMean »

Whatever plan he had has turned out to be a huge lemon.

A potential strength has become a source of frustration and confusion for the squad.

We probably could/should look at releasing a middle soon. Even if there is an injury crisis we'd still have plenty + O'Donnel and Medlyn and co available to bring up. If we could swap out one middle + bring in a winger I think that would be ideal. Parra or Penrif usually have someone decent in reggies- heck Raiders had Ravalawa at mounties when he couldn't get past Rapa and Cotric (Edric?).
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by GreenMachine »

Raiders666 wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:18 pm Ricky was lauded for building tremendous depth at the beginning of the season especially in the forwards...
Could this have created our undoing? Does Ricky have too many options? Has he confused himself? His use of the bench certainly suggest as much..
Has too much competition upset the players? It might be too much to keep them all happy 🤷‍♂️
The irony of this thread isn't lost on me..
I said the depth would be a problem and got shot down for making the claim.
I said that Ricky doesn't know his best side and would be tempted to play his shinny new toy (James) over guys who have probably formed bonds with team mates and would frown on being pushed down the pecking order...
Team harmony is a fickle thing....so easy to maintain when your winning.
Instead of refreshing the backline and making moves for players we actually needed (who may have improved our team too and kept things fresh) we recruited another middle...like we needed it.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by GreenMachine »

Billy Walker wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:54 pm If for arguments sake Lui wasn’t happy about the lack of game time he is seeing that wouldn’t be the end of the world if the only outcome was Lui’s bottom lip dragging. It does become an issue if others in the squad (perhaps Papa) become disillusioned on Lui’s behalf.
Nailed it.
Lui isn't dragging his bottom lip, but his mates are clearly not happy about the preferential treatment other underperforming players are receiving (coughs...our co -captains) ...
To his mates, Lui is being marginalised and possibly on his way out...whereas the other two are, well... "injured"...
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Too much depth
greeneyed wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:46 pm I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.
Yes and that I consider that a side effect of having too much choice
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by julian87 »

It’s a weird one.

For 4 years 15-19 Stuart (or the recruitment team in general) pulled off the greatest re-build flow of signings the modern game has seen. Really post Dugan and Campese’s knee the team was in the deadset doldrums.

Jordan Rapana, Iosia Soliola, Blake Austin, Josh Hodgson, Elliott Whitehead, Aidan Sezer, Joe Tapine, Charnze Nicol Klokstad, John Bateman, Dunamis Lui and even to a lesser extent Corey Horsburgh, Tom Starling, Emre Guler and Bailey Simonsson have together been the most magnificent bunch of signings to turn a club around.

I don’t know whether it was all planned or dumb luck over 4 years but you’ll never see it again. I think post GF loss the recruitment went balls up and that’s where we are.

I don’t think George Williams really suits the team but it was a pretty good gamble. I still think CHN was a great Bateman replacement. But (not laying the boot in to these players individually) I think Scott and James were really poor recruitment choices squad wise. The squad flat out didn’t need another prop and every other top club were saving money at centre looking for juniors to fill holes and Stuart spent up to replace Leilua. Unfortunately it looks like those 2 errors are going to absolutely bust the club’s salary cap at the seams. The amount of middle forwards and rigid centers in the squad is untenable imo.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by -PJ- »

julian87 wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:07 am It’s a weird one.

For 4 years 15-19 Stuart (or the recruitment team in general) pulled off the greatest re-build flow of signings the modern game has seen. Really post Dugan and Campese’s knee the team was in the deadset doldrums.

Jordan Rapana, Iosia Soliola, Blake Austin, Josh Hodgson, Elliott Whitehead, Aidan Sezer, Joe Tapine, Charnze Nicol Klokstad, John Bateman, Dunamis Lui and even to a lesser extent Corey Horsburgh, Tom Starling, Emre Guler and Bailey Simonsson have together been the most magnificent bunch of signings to turn a club around.

I don’t know whether it was all planned or dumb luck over 4 years but you’ll never see it again. I think post GF loss the recruitment went balls up and that’s where we are.

I don’t think George Williams really suits the team but it was a pretty good gamble. I still think CHN was a great Bateman replacement. But (not laying the boot in to these players individually) I think Scott and James were really poor recruitment choices squad wise. The squad flat out didn’t need another prop and every other top club were saving money at centre looking for juniors to fill holes and Stuart spent up to replace Leilua. Unfortunately it looks like those 2 errors are going to absolutely bust the club’s salary cap at the seams. The amount of middle forwards and rigid centers in the squad is untenable imo.
All good points Jules..

In hindsight and some will agree..we held onto Sia for a year too long.

I know he leads the prayers and we all love him but imo the club should have tapped him on the shoulder.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Bay53 »

Botman wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:40 pm
greeneyed wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:46 pm I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.

The rotation is another problem.
100% Agree
It’s poor decision making, it’s poor man management
It’s finding the wrong solution to the problem
It’s not confusion or too many options. It’s just a coach making bad decisions
Probably a fair point, but sometimes you have to take risks as a coach. It was clear in the Penrith and Parra games that we weren’t going to cut it. I guess one option was to carry on, beating up on the ordinary teams, finish 6th and hope we have a good run in the finals and all is good.

Or you realise that if we are going to seriously compete, we need all our guns firing, so you take the risk of blowing up the place a bit to hopefully get the best out of them.

There is a lot more to play out. If we are at round 20 and Tapine and Papalii are in their best form then Ricky is a genius. If we are 12th and they are leaving, he is a dud.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by julian87 »

-PJ- wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:24 am
julian87 wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:07 am It’s a weird one.

For 4 years 15-19 Stuart (or the recruitment team in general) pulled off the greatest re-build flow of signings the modern game has seen. Really post Dugan and Campese’s knee the team was in the deadset doldrums.

Jordan Rapana, Iosia Soliola, Blake Austin, Josh Hodgson, Elliott Whitehead, Aidan Sezer, Joe Tapine, Charnze Nicol Klokstad, John Bateman, Dunamis Lui and even to a lesser extent Corey Horsburgh, Tom Starling, Emre Guler and Bailey Simonsson have together been the most magnificent bunch of signings to turn a club around.

I don’t know whether it was all planned or dumb luck over 4 years but you’ll never see it again. I think post GF loss the recruitment went balls up and that’s where we are.

I don’t think George Williams really suits the team but it was a pretty good gamble. I still think CHN was a great Bateman replacement. But (not laying the boot in to these players individually) I think Scott and James were really poor recruitment choices squad wise. The squad flat out didn’t need another prop and every other top club were saving money at centre looking for juniors to fill holes and Stuart spent up to replace Leilua. Unfortunately it looks like those 2 errors are going to absolutely bust the club’s salary cap at the seams. The amount of middle forwards and rigid centers in the squad is untenable imo.
All good points Jules..

In hindsight and some will agree..we held onto Sia for a year too long.

I know he leads the prayers and we all love him but imo the club should have tapped him on the shoulder.
I don’t disagree. But I presume he’s on a very low contract so don’t really see him as too much of an issue. He’s also the bloke who’d just cop the selections, do what’s best for the team and show the young fellas a thing or two about work ethic and being humble imo.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:33 am
Botman wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:40 pm
greeneyed wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:46 pm I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.

The rotation is another problem.
100% Agree
It’s poor decision making, it’s poor man management
It’s finding the wrong solution to the problem
It’s not confusion or too many options. It’s just a coach making bad decisions
Probably a fair point, but sometimes you have to take risks as a coach. It was clear in the Penrith and Parra games that we weren’t going to cut it. I guess one option was to carry on, beating up on the ordinary teams, finish 6th and hope we have a good run in the finals and all is good.

Or you realise that if we are going to seriously compete, we need all our guns firing, so you take the risk of blowing up the place a bit to hopefully get the best out of them.

There is a lot more to play out. If we are at round 20 and Tapine and Papalii are in their best form then Ricky is a genius. If we are 12th and they are leaving, he is a dud.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by The Nickman »

julian87 wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:45 am
-PJ- wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:24 am
julian87 wrote: May 5, 2021, 8:07 am It’s a weird one.

For 4 years 15-19 Stuart (or the recruitment team in general) pulled off the greatest re-build flow of signings the modern game has seen. Really post Dugan and Campese’s knee the team was in the deadset doldrums.

Jordan Rapana, Iosia Soliola, Blake Austin, Josh Hodgson, Elliott Whitehead, Aidan Sezer, Joe Tapine, Charnze Nicol Klokstad, John Bateman, Dunamis Lui and even to a lesser extent Corey Horsburgh, Tom Starling, Emre Guler and Bailey Simonsson have together been the most magnificent bunch of signings to turn a club around.

I don’t know whether it was all planned or dumb luck over 4 years but you’ll never see it again. I think post GF loss the recruitment went balls up and that’s where we are.

I don’t think George Williams really suits the team but it was a pretty good gamble. I still think CHN was a great Bateman replacement. But (not laying the boot in to these players individually) I think Scott and James were really poor recruitment choices squad wise. The squad flat out didn’t need another prop and every other top club were saving money at centre looking for juniors to fill holes and Stuart spent up to replace Leilua. Unfortunately it looks like those 2 errors are going to absolutely bust the club’s salary cap at the seams. The amount of middle forwards and rigid centers in the squad is untenable imo.
All good points Jules..

In hindsight and some will agree..we held onto Sia for a year too long.

I know he leads the prayers and we all love him but imo the club should have tapped him on the shoulder.
I don’t disagree. But I presume he’s on a very low contract so don’t really see him as too much of an issue. He’s also the bloke who’d just cop the selections, do what’s best for the team and show the young fellas a thing or two about work ethic and being humble imo.
Yup, my thoughts too, wasn't Sia that's the problem here, he was always going to play a "gatekeeper" role this season and seems happy enough to step aside or back into the team as necessary. Well that's how I read the situation anyway.

It's the fact we're trying to jam Papalii, Tapine, Sutton, Young, Horsburgh, Guler, James and Lui into six spots that I see as the issue.
Last edited by The Nickman on May 5, 2021, 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Botman »

Certainly i dont disagree that we're too middle heavy, i've been saying that for a long time now and that the James signing was not required.
But if the cap bursts at the seams (and i don't think it will btw) it wont be on the back of James and Scott deals.
Or Sia either.

It's guys at the top end that break your cap. Guys like Wighton, Croker, Hodgson, Tapine and Papalii who you're paying top end money to be difference makers, who aren't playing to the level required.
Last edited by Botman on May 5, 2021, 9:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:50 am If the cap bursts at the seams (and i don't think it will btw) it wont be on the back of James and Scott deals.
Yeah, it'll be on the back of panicking and paying Adam **** Reynolds a million a season (effectively making him our highest paid player) for the next three **** years.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by yeh raiders »

Botman wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:40 pm
greeneyed wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:46 pm I think the problem is that Josh Papalii and Joe Tapine have probably been dropped because they are not producing to the standard that they can. But they have still been producing some pretty good footy. Papalii below his best has still been better than most of the other options. You have to pick your best. I have a feeling Ricky was trying to send a message by dropping big names, but that has caused more problems.

The rotation is another problem.
100% Agree
It’s poor decision making, it’s poor man management
It’s finding the wrong solution to the problem
It’s not confusion or too many options. It’s just a coach making bad decisions
I agree with everything, but still not sold on Tapine and Paps apparently playing that poorly.

I just think they've been badly coached by someone who has failed to adapt to 2021.

One minute we're moving Papa to the bench because everyone else was supposedly relying on him too much. Nek minut he's dropped because we can't rely on him to deliver...

Of course this going to cause problems, let the boys play!
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Botman »

yeh raiders wrote: May 5, 2021, 10:31 am
I agree with everything, but still not sold on Tapine and Paps apparently playing that poorly.

I just think they've been badly coached by someone who has failed to adapt to 2021.

One minute we're moving Papa to the bench because everyone else was supposedly relying on him too much. Nek minut he's dropped because we can't rely on him to deliver...

Of course this going to cause problems, let the boys play!
They're not playing poorly relative to the team, they're playing poorly relative to their own talent and abilities.
I dont disagree coaching is part of it, and how we've struggled to adapt to the change in the game... but honestly we can and should expect more of guys like Tapine, Papalii, Hodgson, Croker and Wighton. That's about 35-40% of our salary cap there and none of them are playing close to their best.

Tapine and Papalii are still giving us good moments, and i would put them in a different class to the others. So it's not like im saying they're garbage. Same Wighton and Hodgson, who would be in another tier, with Croker in tier on to himself.
But irrespective of that, they're not playing up the their standard. And that's hurting us. Badly.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Bigcheese »

Most of the fans wouldn't like it but I'm thinking we just do what needs to be done now and write this year off.

Release Tapine. He could've manned up and chat to Ricky himself rather than having his wife make his concerns public. Or maybe he did speak to Ricky and Ricky told him what he needs to improve on and he hasn't done it.Either way i think he's done.

Release GWilly now, homesickness is always going to be an issue and I'm now with the others who don't think GWilly and Wighton are a good fit for each other. I don't care if we have Sam Williams playing halfback for the rest of the year until a suitable replacement arrives next year. We need to enter the market now for a half for next year otherwise it'll be too late.

Croker is a good bloke, but he's done. Pick two of Scott, Kris or Timoko and stick with them all year. Personally I'd like to see Timoko in.

Simmo has completely lost me, I wasn't a big fan to start with and don't really see what he offers for our style of play. I'd like to see Valemei given an extended run once he's back on deck.

As for the others who probably won't be here next year, leave them out of the team, focus on giving time to our up and comers or those contracted for the next few years.

When fully fit.

1. CNK
2. Valemei.
3. Kris.
4. Timoko.
5. Rapana.
6. Wighton.
7. S.Williams for the year.
8. Papalii.
9. Hodgson.
10. Guler.
11. CHN.
12. Whitehead.
13. Sutton.

14. Starling.
15. Young.
16. Horsburgh.
17. James.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 10:36 am
yeh raiders wrote: May 5, 2021, 10:31 am
I agree with everything, but still not sold on Tapine and Paps apparently playing that poorly.

I just think they've been badly coached by someone who has failed to adapt to 2021.

One minute we're moving Papa to the bench because everyone else was supposedly relying on him too much. Nek minut he's dropped because we can't rely on him to deliver...

Of course this going to cause problems, let the boys play!
They're not playing poorly relative to the team, they're playing poorly relative to their own talent and abilities.
I dont disagree coaching is part of it, and how we've struggled to adapt to the change in the game... but honestly we can and should expect more of guys like Tapine, Papalii, Hodgson, Croker and Wighton. That's about 35-40% of our salary cap there and none of them are playing close to their best.

Tapine and Papalii are still giving us good moments, and i would put them in a different class to the others. So it's not like im saying they're garbage. Same Wighton and Hodgson, who would be in another tier, with Croker in tier on to himself.
But irrespective of that, they're not playing up the their standard. And that's hurting us. Badly.
But if you push them so hard that they leave, you just shoot yourself in the foot. Not an easy coaching conundrum

I think some players like Shaun Johnson, Milford, and Tapine *might* be another, they just don't have a big will-to-win, they don't have that fire in the eyes. But what do you do as coach, get someone in to replace them who's got the fire, but nowhere near the ability? That won't bring success either

I can just about guarantee you can't force it out of them by cracking the whip harder and having training blowups at them. They are what they are, that's their personality

You do need a system of accountability but that's hard to do at the Raiders, because we all know we don't recruit top level players easily. For the Roosters coach, it's far easier to have accountability as there's a conga line of players wanting to join your club
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Botman
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Botman »

To be clear, i would not have dropped either Tapine or Papalii
I think there are other ways to get them back to their best

Now if those players felt they wanted some time off (Papalii seems to be one like this) then that's fine... but im not dropping guys like them unless its last resort
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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greeneyed
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 11:48 am To be clear, i would not have dropped either Tapine or Papalii
I think there are other ways to get them back to their best

Now if those players felt they wanted some time off (Papalii seems to be one like this) then that's fine... but im not dropping guys like them unless its last resort
For mine, Papalii has been below his best this year. But that was still better than most of the forwards. He and Sutton have been the two best forwards. Tapine middle of the pack. But I wouldn't have thought about dropping him.
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GreenMachine
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 11:48 am To be clear, i would not have dropped either Tapine or Papalii
I think there are other ways to get them back to their best

Now if those players felt they wanted some time off (Papalii seems to be one like this) then that's fine... but im not dropping guys like them unless its last resort
Exactly.
Add to that the shambolic use of our bench and it's not hard to see how the players have become disgruntled.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Bennyinthewest »

I think in Papa's case, (and Tapine to a lesser extent) he is targeted n getting shut down by smart teams, and if I was the opposition coach I'd do the same.

Any coach with half a brain can see how poor our back 5 bring the ball back, do kick to the corner, hold croker up n lose those few metres we just made, then the forwards buzz up when it's Papa's run knowing full well if they stop that run our set is done.

The flow on is then no momentum to go wide (so we go sideways) then into a Jack mid field bomb

Repeat 20 times

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Seiffert82
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Seiffert82 »

Through the history of end of season reviews by sporting organisations, I doubt the issue of "too much depth" features prominently in the list of reasons for failure.

I get the point, but the real failure is not being able to properly manage or best use that depth.

Bringing in Ryan James is not our problem.

Underperforming players, especially veteran players, is our problem.
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Seiffert82
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Seiffert82 »

We need more punch from our back 5 and our forwards need to stop dawdling back to only be in position on tackle 4.

Croker and Simonsson's kick returns are hopeless. Aekins makes a lot of runs, but is useless in heavy contact. Scott is only just now working his way towards being an average first grade centre, rather than the worst in the NRL.

Our big name forwards have been lazy and they are looking to everyone else to pass the buck. It's killing us. I can see why Stuart is furious with Papa and Taps.
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Raiders666 »

:cry: Yeah look I'm just throwing stuff out there...Trying to find a reason for this mess :cry:
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Canberra Milk
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Bennyinthewest wrote: May 5, 2021, 1:41 pm I think in Papa's case, (and Tapine to a lesser extent) he is targeted n getting shut down by smart teams, and if I was the opposition coach I'd do the same.

Any coach with half a brain can see how poor our back 5 bring the ball back, do kick to the corner, hold croker up n lose those few metres we just made, then the forwards buzz up when it's Papa's run knowing full well if they stop that run our set is done.

The flow on is then no momentum to go wide (so we go sideways) then into a Jack mid field bomb

Repeat 20 times

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Agree actually. They're getting picked off
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Re: Too much depth?

Post by Billy Walker »

greeneyed wrote: May 5, 2021, 11:57 am
Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 11:48 am To be clear, i would not have dropped either Tapine or Papalii
I think there are other ways to get them back to their best

Now if those players felt they wanted some time off (Papalii seems to be one like this) then that's fine... but im not dropping guys like them unless its last resort
For mine, Papalii has been below his best this year. But that was still better than most of the forwards. He and Sutton have been the two best forwards. Tapine middle of the pack. But I wouldn't have thought about dropping him.
Yep - I also think that it was a different Papa that Ricky dropped a few years back when he got the reaction he wanted. A hungry player on the rise with more to prove will respond differently to a player that has achieved so much and might rightly feel is owed more respect.
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