Botman wrote: ↑May 24, 2021, 7:50 am
I’m extremely confused by all the talk about Guler
I think he’s been travelling along fine. Like most of the team he’s not playing close to his best. He remains extremely good defensively. As far as running the football he’s 2nd behind Papalii in our pack for post contact metres (nrl.com stats), he’s 3rd in the team behind Papalii and Sutton for runs of 8+ metres (stat lab) and is averaging pretty much bang on 100 metres per game
Given that this pack is lead by Papalii, Tapine and this year Sutton, that output from your #3 middle is pretty good, especially when the guy is 22 and coming off major injury, and clearly suffering the same fitness issues the entire squad has got
Emre Guler is of absolutely no concern to me what so ever. Fix the fitness and he’s going to be fine. He and all the forwards would of course benefit from competent bench usage but I’ve given up on Stuart ever figuring that out. He’s not figured it out in 15+ years of coaching so that’s just a handicap they’ll have to overcome
Agree.
Guler is far from the problem in my opinion.
Our problem is that all the forwards look unfit. It's compounded by the fact they all operate the same way - battering rams.
We need to shed a few battering rams and invest in some leg speed and ball play around the ruck.
The real question is who do we keep of the middles?
In my opinion (aside from Papali and Tapine) I'd be keeping Guler and Young...
The rest I'd be willing to shop around...
Botman wrote: ↑May 24, 2021, 7:50 am
I’m extremely confused by all the talk about Guler
I think he’s been travelling along fine. Like most of the team he’s not playing close to his best. He remains extremely good defensively. As far as running the football he’s 2nd behind Papalii in our pack for post contact metres (nrl.com stats), he’s 3rd in the team behind Papalii and Sutton for runs of 8+ metres (stat lab) and is averaging pretty much bang on 100 metres per game
Given that this pack is lead by Papalii, Tapine and this year Sutton, that output from your #3 middle is pretty good, especially when the guy is 22 and coming off major injury, and clearly suffering the same fitness issues the entire squad has got
Emre Guler is of absolutely no concern to me what so ever. Fix the fitness and he’s going to be fine. He and all the forwards would of course benefit from competent bench usage but I’ve given up on Stuart ever figuring that out. He’s not figured it out in 15+ years of coaching so that’s just a handicap they’ll have to overcome
Agree.
Guler is far from the problem in my opinion.
Our problem is that all the forwards look unfit. It's compounded by the fact they all operate the same way - battering rams.
We need to shed a few battering rams and invest in some leg speed and ball play around the ruck.
The real question is who do we keep of the middles?
In my opinion (aside from Papali and Tapine) I'd be keeping Guler and Young...
The rest I'd be willing to shop around...
No arguments from me. The only other consideration though is how deep the issues are with Paps and Taps. If they are happy in green then all good, happy days! But if they are disgruntled then no matter how good they are we have to look elsewhere.
Papalii has started to put his season together after starting a little slowly. He is averaging something like 9m a run and 127m a game.
Tapine the runs he does are excellent. Actually almost absurdly good. He averages 9m a run and 78% of his runs are over 8m but his workrate is quite poor. Now Tapine has always been a guy who does drift in and out of a game and thats fine. All the good teams are carrying some guy who just bends the line during his stint (think someone like Martin at Penrith) but I would like to see a little more from him. Even just another 1 to 2 runs a game I think I would cop.
Pete Cash wrote: ↑May 24, 2021, 9:30 am
Papalii has started to put his season together after starting a little slowly. He is averaging something like 9m a run and 127m a game.
Tapine the runs he does are excellent. Actually almost absurdly good. He averages 9m a run and 78% of his runs are over 8m but his workrate is quite poor. Now Tapine has always been a guy who does drift in and out of a game and thats fine. All the good teams are carrying some guy who just bends the line during his stint (think someone like Martin at Penrith) but I would like to see a little more from him. Even just another 1 to 2 runs a game I think I would cop.
Yeah not questioning form, skill or ability of either - just want to be sure they are happy in green because if not the rest means little if heart isn’t there for whatever reason.
Our forwards are clearly not fit enough. Guler was knackered after his first stint on Saturday.
There is a lot of talk about fullback being the most or second most important position these days. Looking at the top of the table (as well as who has been successful over the years), I'd say an outstanding kicking game out of the halves is still a huge key to success.
Wighton has a great boot on him, but is horribly inconsistent. Until we get a proper halfback with a consistent kicking game we will struggle.
The Dragons want Hynes, the Broncos want Hynes, everyone seems to want Hynes right now and whoever misses out will then try to sign Dufty. This is where the Raiders should (but I bet they won't) swoop in and take Dufty. He solves a lot of problems - namely being a really good ball player and support player which are 2 things which CNK does not do well.
When CNK debuted for NZ he played centre and was a standout. That solves 2 problems for us with our current blunt attack and terrible defence on the edges. Any off-field issues aside, it makes too much sense to ignore. While we're at it, Hodgson to halfback anyone? He's the kind of player who could run the show from #7, surely!
"The game owes me nothing, I owe the game everything." - Alan Tongue
Andymachine wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 9:17 am
The Dragons want Hynes, the Broncos want Hynes, everyone seems to want Hynes right now and whoever misses out will then try to sign Dufty. This is where the Raiders should (but I bet they won't) swoop in and take Dufty. He solves a lot of problems - namely being a really good ball player and support player which are 2 things which CNK does not do well.
When CNK debuted for NZ he played centre and was a standout. That solves 2 problems for us with our current blunt attack and terrible defence on the edges. Any off-field issues aside, it makes too much sense to ignore. While we're at it, Hodgson to halfback anyone? He's the kind of player who could run the show from #7, surely!
100% agree
I think CNK would be an excellent centre or winger. He's a smart and tough defender capable of handling the workload in the front line.
His lack of passing isn't any issue on the wing but even at centre is no as big an issue, because these are not complicated reads, we're talking basic catch and pass skills, he wont have the quick hands stuff but Dufty is going to put a winger away enough that it's not a death blow.
If everyone is circling Hynes and we're not in that race, it is absolutely the time to sneak in and get Dufty
hrundi89 wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 11:15 am
I think if you look up "Meh" in the dictionary you see a picture of Guler.
Not doing anything particularly wrong but having little impact.
I thought he'd be better but he's looking slow, as is Hors. We've had a lot of talk about our slow backs but we also have a pretty unexplosive forward pack. Not many guys hitting the line hard. Soliola is probably the guy who rips in with the most intensity but unfortunately he's also on the small side and one-dimensional.
"The game owes me nothing, I owe the game everything." - Alan Tongue
GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 11:34 am
Guler is 23....still very young for a middle...
The next 2 years will determine his trajectory in my opinion...
The problem is that he's had better impact earlier in his career. It's not an age thing.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
Its actually a pretty crap time to be a fullback on the market when you think of it... Most teams are locked into quality for next year.
Roosters - Teddy
Souths - Latrell
Brisbane - going hard for Hynes
Cronulla - could be on the lookout, but have Kennedy on the books going ok
Eels - Gutho
Saints - obviously dont want him
Warriors - Walsh is killing it
Us - Have CNK
Penrith - Have Edwards and any upgrade would come from within
Storm - Little papi
Dogs - have gone all in on JAC
Manly - Turbo
Cowbiys - Holmes on big cash and others in waiting
Knights - Ponga
Titans - AJ Brimson
Tigpies - Lawrie
Botman wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 12:09 pm
Are the dogs planning on playing JAC at fullback?
Surely not?
I thought that was the whole point? He wanted in to sydney, but wanted to play fullback?? Hes made no secret of wanting to play fullback, and they cant make a decision with the boys on their roster this year...
Botman wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 12:09 pm
Are the dogs planning on playing JAC at fullback?
Surely not?
I thought that was the whole point? He wanted in to sydney, but wanted to play fullback?? Hes made no secret of wanting to play fullback, and they cant make a decision with the boys on their roster this year...
Really? Never heard the FB part. He signed for top dollar winger money, but middling FB money...
GreenMachine wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 11:34 am
Guler is 23....still very young for a middle...
The next 2 years will determine his trajectory in my opinion...
The problem is that he's had better impact earlier in his career. It's not an age thing.
He wasn't coming off an injury, nor playing under these new conditions early in his career...
like I said...all our forwards look unfit...but we can't toss them all out..
Botman wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 12:09 pm
Are the dogs planning on playing JAC at fullback?
Surely not?
I thought that was the whole point? He wanted in to sydney, but wanted to play fullback?? Hes made no secret of wanting to play fullback, and they cant make a decision with the boys on their roster this year...
I think the doggies have paid fullback money for 3 players now. DWZ, Cotric and JAC.
Botman wrote: ↑May 25, 2021, 12:09 pm
Are the dogs planning on playing JAC at fullback?
Surely not?
I thought that was the whole point? He wanted in to sydney, but wanted to play fullback?? Hes made no secret of wanting to play fullback, and they cant make a decision with the boys on their roster this year...
I think the doggies have paid fullback money for 3 players now. DWZ, Cotric and JAC.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 26, 2021, 11:10 am
Can anyone tell me what this Schneider kids been like in the lower grades?
Is it worth persevering with S Williams until Schneider is ready for a proper call up?
He’s not a Sam Walker... but he’s got good potential and a very good combination with Adrian Trevilyan. Both have very good potential as first graders. I suspect we need another more experienced playmaker to be recruited while he develops, however.
The guys available on the market should really only be 2 year deals given their age/unknowns/knowns. So there'd be no road blocks if we wanted to develop Schneider.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 26, 2021, 11:10 am
Can anyone tell me what this Schneider kids been like in the lower grades?
Is it worth persevering with S Williams until Schneider is ready for a proper call up?
He’s not a Sam Walker... but he’s got good potential and a very good combination with Adrian Trevilyan. Both have very good potential as first graders. I suspect we need another more experienced playmaker to be recruited while he develops, however.
Personally I'd like to see Wighton step it up a notch in that aspect. I'd also like to see how he goes with Sam W over the coming weeks. If we want to work with Schneider for the long term I don't mind Sam as the stop gap measure rather than pick up somebody else's cast off.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 26, 2021, 11:10 am
Can anyone tell me what this Schneider kids been like in the lower grades?
Is it worth persevering with S Williams until Schneider is ready for a proper call up?
His stats from a small sample (a handful of stars and a handful of bench games) in NSW Cup are pretty decent. That's what probably got him the FG gig, he'd put a few decent games together. He may well be a FG half one day but he's only got probably 4-5 starts in NSW Cup behind him. It'd be a massive gamble to count on him as a half and a mistake probably.
I'd have him as our backup half next year, get a year of experience playing half vs men and probably jag a few FG starts through injury of if Jack makes Origin etc and then we might know what we've got.
We will get a better look once Jack gets picked for origin. Be it game 1, 2 3 or a combo, Im pretty sure Jack will play at some stage, meaning a Sammy/Schneider pairing in all liklihood.
If you had told someone even immediately after the GF loss in 2019 that in 2022 we would potentially “running it back” with the same crew but with significant downgrades at :
Halfback (Sezer>Williams)
Centre (BJ >Scott)
Wing (Cotric>Simo) and
Second row (Bateman > Young)
With no notable big ticket signings and an ageing core (EW, Croker, Rapa, Sia, Hodgson) would your expectations be?
Knowing how quickly the comp evolves even not accounting for rule changes, this was always going to be a planning disaster when you don’t refresh the squad enough.
The internal elements of the next rebuild will have to involve the players I haven’t mentioned who are entering their prime (CNK, Valemi, Wighton, Papa, Tapine, Sutton, maybe Starling, maybe Guler and Hors if they get off the pies and fire up).
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 26, 2021, 11:10 am
Can anyone tell me what this Schneider kids been like in the lower grades?
Is it worth persevering with S Williams until Schneider is ready for a proper call up?
His stats from a small sample (a handful of stars and a handful of bench games) in NSW Cup are pretty decent. That's what probably got him the FG gig, he'd put a few decent games together. He may well be a FG half one day but he's only got probably 4-5 starts in NSW Cup behind him. It'd be a massive gamble to count on him as a half and a mistake probably.
I'd have him as our backup half next year, get a year of experience playing half vs men and probably jag a few FG starts through injury of if Jack makes Origin etc and then we might know what we've got.
This was where I was getting at. We know this year is a write off, most likely next year as well. Would it be worth buying a Milford / Croft / Sandow / Pearce when we can use Sammy for a year while we assess and develop Schneider?
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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: ↑May 26, 2021, 11:10 am
Can anyone tell me what this Schneider kids been like in the lower grades?
Is it worth persevering with S Williams until Schneider is ready for a proper call up?
His stats from a small sample (a handful of stars and a handful of bench games) in NSW Cup are pretty decent. That's what probably got him the FG gig, he'd put a few decent games together. He may well be a FG half one day but he's only got probably 4-5 starts in NSW Cup behind him. It'd be a massive gamble to count on him as a half and a mistake probably.
I'd have him as our backup half next year, get a year of experience playing half vs men and probably jag a few FG starts through injury of if Jack makes Origin etc and then we might know what we've got.
This was where I was getting at. We know this year is a write off, most likely next year as well. Would it be worth buying a Milford / Croft / Sandow / Pearce when we can use Sammy for a year while we assess and develop Schneider?
