What does our next rebuild look like?

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BadnMean
Jason Croker
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by BadnMean »

Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
LastRaider
John Ferguson
Posts: 2155
Joined: March 31, 2018, 9:30 pm

What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by LastRaider »

BadnMean wrote:
Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
I agree. Bring through Valemei. We gave him finals experience last year so time to bring him through.

Now Williams is homesick, who are we recruiting for halfback? We have no juniors coming through that can fill the void I don’t think.

I’m thinking maybe Drinkwater from Cowboys.


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Northern Raider
Mal Meninga
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Northern Raider »

LastRaider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:13 am
BadnMean wrote:
Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
I agree. Bring through Valemei. We gave him finals experience last year so time to bring him through.

Now Williams is homesick, who are we recruiting for halfback? We have no juniors coming through that can fill the void I don’t think.

I’m thinking maybe Drinkwater from Cowboys.
God no. He's a walking **** up on the field. His highlight reel can look impressive but it never shows the long list of clangers he delivers to offset anything good. Add in that he's a defensive liability in the font line. There are much better targets if you want to upgrade your squad.
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BadnMean
Jason Croker
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by BadnMean »

LastRaider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:13 am
BadnMean wrote:
Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
I agree. Bring through Valemei. We gave him finals experience last year so time to bring him through.

Now Williams is homesick, who are we recruiting for halfback? We have no juniors coming through that can fill the void I don’t think.

I’m thinking maybe Drinkwater from Cowboys.


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Hypethetically (as I have zero idea if the GWilly rumour is real or just the sky falling) we should go hard at Reynolds for 2-3 yers while we bring up a junior. Still playing great footy and is the organiser + tactical kicker we really need. Would free Jack up to just be second choice kick option.

Haven't paid much attention to other young halves so can't comment on Drinkwater, barely seen him.
lomax
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by lomax »

BJ wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:42 pm You can’t do a Sydney club style recruitment rebuild in Canberra. Where you just simply take on a player from another Sydney club.

If a player is married or in a serious relationship they just won’t pack up the whole family and move to a whole new city. Often these girls are from Sydney and have jobs and families they don’t want to leave without a good reason.

Too many people think getting a player into Canberra is like SuperCoach and you can just choose whoever. Players come to Canberra either for an opportunity or for good money. How many players with at least a season of NRL have moved to Canberra in 40 seasons. My guess is less than 2 a year on average.

The cost of buying and selling houses or even renting in Canberra is very high. This is not a rebuild through bulk recruitment kind of club. It’s always been about juniors, outside the box recruitment like Queensland, Islanders and Poms, players looking for a second chance/opportunity.

At least we have good mountain biking facilities.
Spot on. The re build would be a 3 -4 year process. I think we need to look at what is coming via our lower grades and make sure we secure the right players from the winning SG ball team.

England has given us some joy and re visiting that avenue could reward us again. If we try to go to market for established first graders who are Sydney based we will be paying overs, and that will just lead to Salary cap pain.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Northern Raider »

lomax wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:22 am
BJ wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:42 pm You can’t do a Sydney club style recruitment rebuild in Canberra. Where you just simply take on a player from another Sydney club.

If a player is married or in a serious relationship they just won’t pack up the whole family and move to a whole new city. Often these girls are from Sydney and have jobs and families they don’t want to leave without a good reason.

Too many people think getting a player into Canberra is like SuperCoach and you can just choose whoever. Players come to Canberra either for an opportunity or for good money. How many players with at least a season of NRL have moved to Canberra in 40 seasons. My guess is less than 2 a year on average.

The cost of buying and selling houses or even renting in Canberra is very high. This is not a rebuild through bulk recruitment kind of club. It’s always been about juniors, outside the box recruitment like Queensland, Islanders and Poms, players looking for a second chance/opportunity.

At least we have good mountain biking facilities.
Spot on. The re build would be a 3 -4 year process. I think we need to look at what is coming via our lower grades and make sure we secure the right players from the winning SG ball team.

England has given us some joy and re visiting that avenue could reward us again. If we try to go to market for established first graders who are Sydney based we will be paying overs, and that will just lead to Salary cap pain.
100%. I can't think of any in demand player the Raiders have been able to recruit from Sydney. It's usually cap casualties and players wanting a better shot at a permanent 1st grade spot. Only have to look at Sticky's recent rebuild into a Top 4 squad. No big name recruits to be seen.
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kiwi raider
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by kiwi raider »

Northern Raider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:20 am
LastRaider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:13 am
BadnMean wrote:
Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
I agree. Bring through Valemei. We gave him finals experience last year so time to bring him through.

Now Williams is homesick, who are we recruiting for halfback? We have no juniors coming through that can fill the void I don’t think.

I’m thinking maybe Drinkwater from Cowboys.
God no. He's a walking **** up on the field. His highlight reel can look impressive but it never shows the long list of clangers he delivers to offset anything good. Add in that he's a defensive liability in the font line. There are much better targets if you want to upgrade your squad.
He's a better fullback option than halfback but you are right, Gerorge Williams out for someone like Drinkwater is a big downgrade for our squad, I'm not sure we could realistically sign anyone that much better than Drinkwater as a replacement either. Really hope Williams stays, might not be an organiser but he has some strong points to his game like his short kicking(when we actually get in position for a short kick which isn't often enough), running game and support play.
He's not perfect but the odds of attracting anyone better are slim imo
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Northern Raider »

kiwi raider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:52 am
Northern Raider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:20 am
LastRaider wrote: May 4, 2021, 8:13 am
BadnMean wrote:
Damoni wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:58 pm Raiders 22
1. Dufty****
2. Raps
3. CNK
4. Kris
5. Savage
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Paps
9. Starling
10. Taps
11. Liam Martin***
12. CHN
13. Whitehead (Ball playing role)

14. Trevilyan
15. Horse
16. Young
17. James
18. Sutton
19. Guler
20. Esera
21. HSS
22. Timoko
23. Hoppa

New signings......
- Martin reminds me a lot of Bateman, aggressive and rips in. Also has connection to the club
- Dufty - much prefer him over Hynes gotta sign someone with express speed

Other notes
- Whitehead will add another dimension to our attack and at lock we can get him involved more
- Look to play with more offloads with Paps, Taps and Horse being able to make that happen with guys like Starling and Dufty playing off the back of that
- Have flexibility to field a more agile pack if required starting Martin, Young, CHN and Starling
- No more forwards required we have plenty

Who can go......
- Hodgson ($800k)
- Sia ($200k)
- Lui ($200k)
- Croker ($600k)
- Havili ($200k)
- Scott ($450k)

Cash freed up is enough to cover new signings
I like a lot of that but how is Rapana getting a gig in 2022? He's not getting faster- he's aged pretty rapidly year on year. Don't go a year too long just because he's Rapa- that kind of thing got us in this mess.
I agree. Bring through Valemei. We gave him finals experience last year so time to bring him through.

Now Williams is homesick, who are we recruiting for halfback? We have no juniors coming through that can fill the void I don’t think.

I’m thinking maybe Drinkwater from Cowboys.
God no. He's a walking **** up on the field. His highlight reel can look impressive but it never shows the long list of clangers he delivers to offset anything good. Add in that he's a defensive liability in the font line. There are much better targets if you want to upgrade your squad.
He's a better fullback option than halfback but you are right, Gerorge Williams out for someone like Drinkwater is a big downgrade for our squad, I'm not sure we could realistically sign anyone that much better than Drinkwater as a replacement either. Really hope Williams stays, might not be an organiser but he has some strong points to his game like his short kicking(when we actually get in position for a short kick which isn't often enough), running game and support play.
He's not perfect but the odds of attracting anyone better are slim imo
Even as a fullback there's no way I'm preferring Drinkwater to CNK.

Yes, halves is the biggest issue to address in a rebuild otherwise you're wasting time. G Willy is our guy and homesickness aside, lets work on his development. With Stick and Cappy on the coaching staff I'm sure we have enough halfback knowledge to pass on. He's only 26 and one full season of NRL under his belt. Plenty to work with.

If he does head back to UK then I'd look at a youth policy. Give the opportunity for a young player coming through. Hopefully unearth a Sam Walker but you don't need a superstar. A decent quality half is all you want. May was well fish in our own pond first up. They obviously like what they say with Brad Schneider when they recruited him out of high school. The glimpses I've seen in NSW Cup highlights looks like he's got the right tools.

Otherwise better looking for somebody who has the talent and needs a better path to first grade. Look at the reserves for the top sides where their halves are set.
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SeeBee101
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by SeeBee101 »

https://www.raiders.com.au/teams/canter ... schneider/

Pretty good stats so far. Hopefully he develops further over the course of this year.
LastRaider
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by LastRaider »

Well going by tonight’s drama Hodgson won’t be part of the rebuild
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Botman
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Botman »

LastRaider wrote: May 5, 2021, 7:16 pm Well going by tonight’s drama Hodgson won’t be part of the rebuild
He's 32 years old, he was never going to be part of the next era of raiders football unless it was in a coaching capacity
I would strongly argue this era of raiders football was defined by him as the key driving force of the Raider elevating to a level where it could contend for a premiership, and poetically this era may end with his departure.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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GreenMachine
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by GreenMachine »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 7:46 pm
LastRaider wrote: May 5, 2021, 7:16 pm Well going by tonight’s drama Hodgson won’t be part of the rebuild
He's 32 years old, he was never going to be part of the next era of raiders football unless it was in a coaching capacity
I would strongly argue this era of raiders football was defined by him as the key driving force of the Raider elevating to a level where it could contend for a premiership, and poetically this era may end with his departure.
It doesn’t have to end (for the club) if the club make the right moves in the player market and Ricky somehow learns how to adapt.

Agree on the point about Hodgson. He helped build it and it’s a shame he won’t be around in some capacity later on...

People often forget Ricky left the Raiders very unceremoniously....
LastRaider
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by LastRaider »

GreenMachine wrote:
Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 7:46 pm
LastRaider wrote: May 5, 2021, 7:16 pm Well going by tonight’s drama Hodgson won’t be part of the rebuild
He's 32 years old, he was never going to be part of the next era of raiders football unless it was in a coaching capacity
I would strongly argue this era of raiders football was defined by him as the key driving force of the Raider elevating to a level where it could contend for a premiership, and poetically this era may end with his departure.
It doesn’t have to end (for the club) if the club make the right moves in the player market and Ricky somehow learns how to adapt.

Agree on the point about Hodgson. He helped build it and it’s a shame he won’t be around in some capacity later on...

People often forget Ricky left the Raiders very unceremoniously....
I remember
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Botman
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Botman »

No one forgets, we all remember.
it helps shapes his entire coaching career... this is armchair psychology, but it is clear to me that as a coach he's extremely redisent to give up on seasoned veterans who have done the job for him because he was once seasoned veteran who had done the job and was unceremoniously discarded for the next big thing.

He's spoken about how that hurt him. How it imapcted him. And it's feed through in his coaching career. It cost him his job at the roosters, by his own admission, and here we are doing it all again.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Canberra Milk
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Canberra Milk »

You could be right, it might be why he loves referring to himself as a "player's coach" too - he wants to right the wrong that he felt was done to him
rayden83
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by rayden83 »

Serious question. Canberra relocate to Sydney? Not the club, name, stadium or anything, just the players coaches, trainers etc residences and training base? 30 minute charter flight for home games. Or cheapie Jetstar. If so, we could base ourselves in/near Bondi, only a 20 min drive to the airport. Can/t think of too many downsides, most players don't care about Canberra they are paid professionals, it matters to me not where they live. Imagine the recruitment opportunities it would open.

Serious question.
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-TW-
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by -TW- »

That is the stupidest thing I've seen

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greeneyed
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by greeneyed »

rayden83 wrote: May 5, 2021, 10:43 pm Serious question. Canberra relocate to Sydney? Not the club, name, stadium or anything, just the players coaches, trainers etc residences and training base? 30 minute charter flight for home games. Or cheapie Jetstar. If so, we could base ourselves in/near Bondi, only a 20 min drive to the airport. Can/t think of too many downsides, most players don't care about Canberra they are paid professionals, it matters to me not where they live. Imagine the recruitment opportunities it would open.

Serious question.
Fair dinkum. There have been some outright ridiculous things you’ve said, but this has shot to the top of the charts. Clearly, you’re no longer hiding your trolling. We shall moderate accordingly.
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BJ
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by BJ »

I reckon the Raiders should move to Antarctica but still play out of Canberra. We’ll be perfectly acclimatised to winter games at Bruce stadium.

Hey it’s not the stupidest idea you’ve heard tonight.
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zim
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by zim »

You know if you suggest that idea Barr is going to build an indoor stadium there for GWS to play out of.
rayden83
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by rayden83 »

Uh oh looks like it's shaping up to be another rayden pile on. Get stuck in lads if it makes you feel better.

Why is it stupid? The concept of professional sports teams basing their residences and training facilities in cities different to the ones they represent isn't new. The New York Jets for example, live and train out of New Jersey, an entirely different State. So do the Washington Giants and Redskins. And a bunch of other teams. Do their fans care? NFL is the most commercially successful sport on the planet.

Also the concept of travelling for work isn't new either. Plenty of people live outside the cities they work and commute 1-2 hours back and forth every day. NBA teams can take 50+ flights per season all over the US. Often they play in game in one city one day and another city the next. The extra travel load, a 45 minute flight every couple of weeks, would be negligible compared to those sports and even those in our own backyard like Cowboys and Warriors (yes I realise that NZ is a different country).

So why do it? Possibly to solve a problem that's plagued Raiders, and frankly other teams that aren't big city centric for decades, to attract and retain quality players who want to balance career with lifestyle, and don't want to live in a soulless bureaucratic gulag like Canberra. Or we can keep struggling for the next 50-100 years never to see Raiders win another Premiership while pinning our hopes and dreams on young stars coming through hopefully to emulate their heroes before them like Kris Kahler and Joe Picker.

Anyway it was just an idea, I briefly considered whether it was a stupid idea.. but then I just realised that some on this forum have an allergy to unconventional ideas and are offended by things that don't immediately make sense.
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greeneyed
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by greeneyed »

rayden83 wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:06 am
Why is it stupid?

Anyway it was just an idea, I briefly considered whether it was a stupid idea..
Clearly not long enough. It is clear that you are simply trolling.

The NFL teams you refer to are just across State borders. What you're suggesting is akin to saying... let's put the base of a New York team in Boston. It is patently ridiculous, what you're suggesting would mean a certain end to support for the club in Canberra. And if there's no support in Canberra, the club collapses. The role of the Canberra Raiders is to promote rugby league in Canberra and the district. The residents of Canberra love the city, they like living in the region. We don't regard it as a "gulag".

Clearly, however, you are not a Raiders fan. So we will treat future posts precisely like that.
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afgtnk
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by afgtnk »

I don't think we have any problem recruiting well enough to become contenders and we've clearly proved it.

We did a slash and burn job in 2014 and 2015 that got us to 2016 - our best finish in 20 odd years.

We then discarded a number of the new recruits from the first build, did a half build with a few fresh coats of paint, which got us to a GF and Prelim.

The type of job that Stuart did in 2014 and 2015 will not be needed again under his tenure I believe. Go back and look at just how much we shed - it was huge. What we need now is some refinement, a few consistent tweaks here and there, and importantly, evolution of the way we play to complement what should be an ever changing squad.

As always, it seems people simply want to look for something or someone to blame when things get a bit tough. It's now 'recruitment difficulty's' turn to get flogged as an excuse.
rayden83
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by rayden83 »

greeneyed wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:41 am
rayden83 wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:06 am
Why is it stupid?

Anyway it was just an idea, I briefly considered whether it was a stupid idea..
Clearly not long enough. It is clear that you are simply trolling.

The NFL teams you refer to are just across State borders. What you're suggesting is akin to saying... let's put the base of New York team in Boston. It is patently ridiculous, what you're suggesting would mean a certain end to support for the club in Canberra. And if there's no support in Canberra, the club collapses. The role of the Canberra Raiders is to promote rugby league in Canberra and the district. The residents of Canberra love the city, they like living in the region. We don't regard it as a "gulag".

Clearly, however, you are not a Raiders fan. So we will treat future posts precisely like that.
“Just a teeny weeny bit across the border” is one way of looking at it, another is that they are based in totally different cities and States. There’s no downplaying that. Even if they were based in Boston or Antarctica, the fans don’t care. They care about their team colours, name, logo and history, not where their players sleep and urinate. I dont care either, as long as they spent some time (inevitable) in the city promoting the club, visiting schools, doing their bit to prove they stick solid and bleed green, who cares? Like it or not players come to Canberra for the money and opportunity to play first grade, not because they feel a spiritual connection to Lake Burley. When they get a better deal or the city proves too lifeless they leave. Its a hired temporary contract business relationship, but I dont care becuase its the colours, history, name, song , viking clap etc is the soul of the club.

The idea that support would collapse isnt substantiated either. Support didnt collapse when Dragons merged with Steelers, support didnt collapse when Wests merged with Balmain. In fact its estimated that Fitzroy retained 50% of its supporter base when it moved its headquarters, name and stadium to Brisbane. I’m not proposing we do any of that, just that it may be an idea to base training facilities in Sydney, the city closest to Canberra, in order to attract and retain better players and improve our chances of winning a Prem. Everything else stays the same. Hypothetically if such a thing was announced there would be immediate howls of rage and fist shaking but eventually everyone would just accept it. Literally everyone. Every single person this forum. You especially.

Its sad that people have such visceral knee jerk reactions to ideas just because they are unconventional and challenging, without assessing the merits first. As a side note I would add that I was born and raised in Canberra, and even though its a drab city I love it because I have fond memories growing up there. But I would also add that one of my best mates is the most diehard Raiders supporter I know, and has no connection to Canberra at all. In fact there’s a ton of Raiders fans like that, probably some who’ve never been to Canberra. My point? One need not be always physically present in the city in order to feel connection with the club.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by FROG »

Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:38 pm No one forgets, we all remember.
it helps shapes his entire coaching career... this is armchair psychology, but it is clear to me that as a coach he's extremely redisent to give up on seasoned veterans who have done the job for him because he was once seasoned veteran who had done the job and was unceremoniously discarded for the next big thing.

He's spoken about how that hurt him. How it imapcted him. And it's feed through in his coaching career. It cost him his job at the roosters, by his own admission, and here we are doing it all again.
I'm sorry mate are you being critical of Ricky for dropping our seasoned veterans, or are you suggesting he should be doing precisely what he is doing by holding our co captains and other senior players accountable? I'm confused.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by GreenMachine »

afgtnk wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:55 am I don't think we have any problem recruiting well enough to become contenders and we've clearly proved it.

We did a slash and burn job in 2014 and 2015 that got us to 2016 - our best finish in 20 odd years.

We then discarded a number of the new recruits from the first build, did a half build with a few fresh coats of paint, which got us to a GF and Prelim.

The type of job that Stuart did in 2014 and 2015 will not be needed again under his tenure I believe. Go back and look at just how much we shed - it was huge. What we need now is some refinement, a few consistent tweaks here and there, and importantly, evolution of the way we play to complement what should be an ever changing squad.

As always, it seems people simply want to look for something or someone to blame when things get a bit tough. It's now 'recruitment difficulty's' turn to get flogged as an excuse.
Exactly.
The structure is there, we just need to refresh areas we have always been aware of needing refreshing.
It’s less daunting than when Ricky arrived or when we punted Austin...
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Finchy »

FROG wrote: May 6, 2021, 5:58 am
Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:38 pm No one forgets, we all remember.
it helps shapes his entire coaching career... this is armchair psychology, but it is clear to me that as a coach he's extremely redisent to give up on seasoned veterans who have done the job for him because he was once seasoned veteran who had done the job and was unceremoniously discarded for the next big thing.

He's spoken about how that hurt him. How it imapcted him. And it's feed through in his coaching career. It cost him his job at the roosters, by his own admission, and here we are doing it all again.
I'm sorry mate are you being critical of Ricky for dropping our seasoned veterans, or are you suggesting he should be doing precisely what he is doing by holding our co captains and other senior players accountable? I'm confused.
I don’t think he’s being either. My take is he’s simply pointing out Ricky is unwilling to do to club legends/senior players what was done to him in his playing career. And a result of that was him losing his job at the Roosters and what we’re currently seeing with us. Not a suggestion of what he should or shouldn’t be doing per se, just an observation about why it’s happening
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by FROG »

Finchy wrote: May 6, 2021, 6:14 am
FROG wrote: May 6, 2021, 5:58 am
Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:38 pm No one forgets, we all remember.
it helps shapes his entire coaching career... this is armchair psychology, but it is clear to me that as a coach he's extremely redisent to give up on seasoned veterans who have done the job for him because he was once seasoned veteran who had done the job and was unceremoniously discarded for the next big thing.

He's spoken about how that hurt him. How it imapcted him. And it's feed through in his coaching career. It cost him his job at the roosters, by his own admission, and here we are doing it all again.
I'm sorry mate are you being critical of Ricky for dropping our seasoned veterans, or are you suggesting he should be doing precisely what he is doing by holding our co captains and other senior players accountable? I'm confused.
I don’t think he’s being either. My take is he’s simply pointing out Ricky is unwilling to do to club legends/senior players what was done to him in his playing career. And a result of that was him losing his job at the Roosters and what we’re currently seeing with us. Not a suggestion of what he should or shouldn’t be doing per se, just an observation about why it’s happening
I think there was some truth to this with a younger Stuart but I don't think this is the case anymore. Think about how fensom, ed Lee, bj were shown the door. We are also observing the new Stuart at the moment with many of our senior players warming the pine
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by gergreg »

rayden83 wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:41 am
rayden83 wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:06 am
Why is it stupid?

Anyway it was just an idea, I briefly considered whether it was a stupid idea..
Clearly not long enough. It is clear that you are simply trolling.

The NFL teams you refer to are just across State borders. What you're suggesting is akin to saying... let's put the base of New York team in Boston. It is patently ridiculous, what you're suggesting would mean a certain end to support for the club in Canberra. And if there's no support in Canberra, the club collapses. The role of the Canberra Raiders is to promote rugby league in Canberra and the district. The residents of Canberra love the city, they like living in the region. We don't regard it as a "gulag".

Clearly, however, you are not a Raiders fan. So we will treat future posts precisely like that.
“Just a teeny weeny bit across the border” is one way of looking at it, another is that they are based in totally different cities and States. There’s no downplaying that. Even if they were based in Boston or Antarctica, the fans don’t care. They care about their team colours, name, logo and history, not where their players sleep and urinate. I dont care either, as long as they spent some time (inevitable) in the city promoting the club, visiting schools, doing their bit to prove they stick solid and bleed green, who cares? Like it or not players come to Canberra for the money and opportunity to play first grade, not because they feel a spiritual connection to Lake Burley. When they get a better deal or the city proves too lifeless they leave. Its a hired temporary contract business relationship, but I dont care becuase its the colours, history, name, song , viking clap etc is the soul of the club.

The idea that support would collapse isnt substantiated either. Support didnt collapse when Dragons merged with Steelers, support didnt collapse when Wests merged with Balmain. In fact its estimated that Fitzroy retained 50% of its supporter base when it moved its headquarters, name and stadium to Brisbane. I’m not proposing we do any of that, just that it may be an idea to base training facilities in Sydney, the city closest to Canberra, in order to attract and retain better players and improve our chances of winning a Prem. Everything else stays the same. Hypothetically if such a thing was announced there would be immediate howls of rage and fist shaking but eventually everyone would just accept it. Literally everyone. Every single person this forum. You especially.

Its sad that people have such visceral knee jerk reactions to ideas just because they are unconventional and challenging, without assessing the merits first. As a side note I would add that I was born and raised in Canberra, and even though its a drab city I love it because I have fond memories growing up there. But I would also add that one of my best mates is the most diehard Raiders supporter I know, and has no connection to Canberra at all. In fact there’s a ton of Raiders fans like that, probably some who’ve never been to Canberra. My point? One need not be always physically present in the city in order to feel connection with the club.
Keep up the good work. I think every single team in the competition should be based in Bondi (including the other Sydney teams). It's only a short flight to Melbourne, Brisbane, Townsville, Gold Coast, Newcastle. We should embrace the positives that FIFO football teams bring to the competition. Oh boy, can you imagine the off season with nearly 500 NRL players hanging out at Bondi Beach.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Botman »

FROG wrote: May 6, 2021, 5:58 am
Botman wrote: May 5, 2021, 9:38 pm No one forgets, we all remember.
it helps shapes his entire coaching career... this is armchair psychology, but it is clear to me that as a coach he's extremely redescent to give up on seasoned veterans who have done the job for him because he was once seasoned veteran who had done the job and was unceremoniously discarded for the next big thing.

He's spoken about how that hurt him. How it impacted him. And it's feed through in his coaching career. It cost him his job at the roosters, by his own admission, and here we are doing it all again.
I'm sorry mate are you being critical of Ricky for dropping our seasoned veterans, or are you suggesting he should be doing precisely what he is doing by holding our co captains and other senior players accountable? I'm confused.
No wonder you're confused, I'm not criticising or defending him in this post. I'm explaining that IMO, the way Stuart's career ended in Canberra is at the core of why he is what I've labelled a "veteran players coach" and that being he is a coach who all through his coaching career has been extremely loyal to his veteran players, even in their wanning years.
Whether you think that's a good thing or bad thing is entirely up to you.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Botman »

FROG wrote: May 6, 2021, 6:27 am I think there was some truth to this with a younger Stuart but I don't think this is the case anymore. Think about how fensom, ed Lee, bj were shown the door. We are also observing the new Stuart at the moment with many of our senior players warming the pine
BJ was shown the door because he and Stuart had a falling out. As for guys like Lee and Fensom, they never "did the job for him", quite the opposite in fact, they continually let him down.
Croker is the easy example, a club legend, going to hold every record in the book and you can see how hard this is for Stuart, Campese was a bit the same, he doesn't want to do it to those guys.
Hodgson is a bit the same, we've known for 12 months that Starling needs more playing time but it's taken him this long to even get the guy on the field unless Hodgson was hurt. Sia frankly shouldn't be on our roster right now, i know he has a lot of intangibles to bring to the table, but he can bring that in on off field role, but Stuart doesn't want to push that sort of dude out because he feels like that's a guy he can rely on

This is not a coach who champions the young bloke. He brings them on incredibly slowly. And i think a big part of that is he doesn't trust younger players to do the job the way he trusts older players, and i really think that is a mentality that was calcified in his departure from the Raiders. He was dumped when he felt he could still get the job done, for kid's who couldn't.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by T_R »

gergreg wrote: May 6, 2021, 7:35 am Oh boy, can you imagine the off season with nearly 500 NRL players hanging out at Bondi Beach.
I'm thinking reality TV here. This could be huge.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by SeeBee101 »

Botman wrote: May 6, 2021, 8:19 am
FROG wrote: May 6, 2021, 6:27 am I think there was some truth to this with a younger Stuart but I don't think this is the case anymore. Think about how fensom, ed Lee, bj were shown the door. We are also observing the new Stuart at the moment with many of our senior players warming the pine
BJ was shown the door because he and Stuart had a falling out. As for guys like Lee and Fensom, they never "did the job for him", quite the opposite in fact, they continually let him down.
Croker is the easy example, a club legend, going to hold every record in the book and you can see how hard this is for Stuart, Campese was a bit the same, he doesn't want to do it to those guys.
Hodgson is a bit the same, we've known for 12 months that Starling needs more playing time but it's taken him this long to even get the guy on the field unless Hodgson was hurt. Sia frankly shouldn't be on our roster right now, i know he has a lot of intangibles to bring to the table, but he can bring that in on off field role, but Stuart doesn't want to push that sort of dude out because he feels like that's a guy he can rely on

This is not a coach who champions the young bloke. He brings them on incredibly slowly. And i think a big part of that is he doesn't trust younger players to do the job the way he trusts older players, and i really think that is a mentality that was calcified in his departure from the Raiders. He was dumped when he felt he could still get the job done, for kid's who couldn't.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Ricky has never wanted to give young players a chance. Other clubs seem willing to give young guns a chance at a young age. Meanwhile over the years, Ricky has recruited old heads to do the jobs (Lima, FPN, Waqa, Sia, James) younger players could do. It worked before the six again rule, but times have changed.

Teams that are willing to play youthfulness over experience (outside the spine) are the teams leading the comp. It's time Ricky got with the times.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by Mickey_Raider »

If we are going to relocate to Sydney it should be to North Sydney, not Bondi. That way we can vacuum up the disgruntled Bears fans and I live a short walk from North Sydney Oval so it will be more convenient for me. Thx.
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Re: What does our next rebuild look like?

Post by lomax »

Mickey_Raider wrote: May 6, 2021, 12:33 pm If we are going to relocate to Sydney it should be to North Sydney, not Bondi. That way we can vacuum up the disgruntled Bears fans and I live a short walk from North Sydney Oval so it will be more convenient for me. Thx.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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