Is Ricky losing the team?

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raidersmalt
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Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by raidersmalt »

There definitely seems to be something going on at the club....

Dropped players...."injured" players..... We're playing terribly and Tapine's wife bagging out Ricky on social media.

It just seems like something's going on, maybe a bit of unrest, or maybe Ricky's just burnt the players out.

He seems like a pretty intense guy, and based on his previous coaching appointments it seems like he's able to get an incredible amount out of a team for a certain amount of time (like his time at the sharks), but his intensity ultimately wears the team down, and they check out.

In the past, Ricky's go to move to motivate players is to drop them for a week or two....this has definitely worked in the past....but this year feels different. I get the vibe that it's just increasing bad vibe within the playing group.

Just occured to me that it's a possibility.

I may just be imagining it.

Thoughts?
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by BadnMean »

7 years is generally long enough for a coach to reform his squad, have some success and then go stale. If there's no reall success, maybe even less. About as long as Dessies first Manly stint. Green at the Cowboys. It's a rare, rare coach who goes longer than that and almost always with success involved. Tim Sheens was at Raiders for 9 and Tigers for 9. They won.

I don't think RIcky is going to get sacked but I do think if the coach isn't going to be changed, the squad needs rejuvenating. It'll go stale. We are generally one of the least active clubs in the market year after year after year- and even then it's mostly churning over those outside the top 17.

This sitting still cost us in 2016/2017. After 2019 we didn't sit still, we got in GWilly and Scott. Had a decent year 2020. Sat still again apart from hoarding a middle opportunistically...
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Dr Zaius »

Our attack has been meh for the last few years. Since Crawley left really. I don't think that it's any more or less meh now.

Our defence the last few years has been outstanding, and that's where our current problem is. I missed the Penrith and Parramatta games, but I felt before that our defence had been rock solid, and I was confident that we would push for Top 4. Defence comes down to attitude. Something has gone off in the last month.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

I saw To’o and Luai on the TV last night and you could see there is a very tight, fairly unique, culture at Panthers that seems to be player driven and is working very well for them. Not suggesting we need to introduce silly handshakes, over the top try celebrations and the singing of boyz2men at every opportunity, but culture is very important. I like what Ricky has done in making strong links to the clubs past and how he is building that strong tradition. To what degree the players buy in and appreciate that approach is hard to say. I don’t think the team culture can be imposed from the top. I think Ricky needs to ensure the space exists for this group of players to work out what they are all about and what they stand for.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Canberra Milk »

Billy Walker wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:50 am I saw To’o and Luai on the TV last night and you could see there is a very tight, fairly unique, culture at Panthers that seems to be player driven and is working very well for them. Not suggesting we need to introduce silly handshakes, over the top try celebrations and the singing of boyz2men at every opportunity, but culture is very important. I like what Ricky has done in making strong links to the clubs past and how he is building that strong tradition. To what degree the players buy in and appreciate that approach is hard to say. I don’t think the team culture can be imposed from the top. I think Ricky needs to ensure the space exists for this group of players to work out what they are all about and what they stand for.
Winners are grinners. If they were losing, they'd be slammed for that Boyz2men stuff, "focus on your footy" etc. Imagine they did it after a loss? Not saying I don't like it, but just pointing out that everything takes on a different perspective when you're winning

Talk about culture, how about Roosters. They were widely slammed for punting Kyle Flanagan, too ruthless etc. Now no one cares and they have Sam Walker and everyone is happy. Their culture is of demanding success and performance. There are no participation awards (I'm aware though that they can afford to have that culture because they're an attractive club, a destination club, who players want to play for)
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by lomax »

I am not one to sing Stickys praises, but i feel he has allowed the players to drive a lot in this team. He has always come out and praised the players in the press after losses when many of us believe he should have given them a rocket. This is the first time he has swung the axe and put players on notice, and instead of the players responding in a positive way, they are looking to shift the blame. I think this shows our playing group does not have the mental strength like the top teams. IMO the playing group needs to take responsibility for the performances they have dished up this year
Last edited by lomax on May 3, 2021, 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by sprintman »

No accountability across the board. Going nowhere and fast!
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 3, 2021, 10:56 am
Billy Walker wrote: May 3, 2021, 9:50 am I saw To’o and Luai on the TV last night and you could see there is a very tight, fairly unique, culture at Panthers that seems to be player driven and is working very well for them. Not suggesting we need to introduce silly handshakes, over the top try celebrations and the singing of boyz2men at every opportunity, but culture is very important. I like what Ricky has done in making strong links to the clubs past and how he is building that strong tradition. To what degree the players buy in and appreciate that approach is hard to say. I don’t think the team culture can be imposed from the top. I think Ricky needs to ensure the space exists for this group of players to work out what they are all about and what they stand for.
Winners are grinners. If they were losing, they'd be slammed for that Boyz2men stuff, "focus on your footy" etc. Imagine they did it after a loss? Not saying I don't like it, but just pointing out that everything takes on a different perspective when you're winning

Talk about culture, how about Roosters. They were widely slammed for punting Kyle Flanagan, too ruthless etc. Now no one cares and they have Sam Walker and everyone is happy. Their culture is of demanding success and performance. There are no participation awards (I'm aware though that they can afford to have that culture because they're an attractive club, a destination club, who players want to play for)
Very true about Panthers and Roosters. This is an interesting topic. I think the line between a high functioning winning culture and a not so good culture is very fine. You are right about results and culture being chicken and egg though - I’m not sure I can point to any teams that aren’t getting on field results but have a great culture.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by rayden83 »

The biggest threat to Ricky’s tenure is Ricky. Sometimes when you’re on a losing streak the best thing to do is stick solid with your core playing group. Once you start making wholesale changes, playing players out of position, dropping players based on 1-2 bad performances, weird rotations on the bench, that’s when things start to seriously unravel.

Our losing streak can primarily be explained by a couple close of losses, untimely HIA’s, pre game injuries and decimation of our spine, notwithstanding Ricky’s idiosyncrasies. We know that Ricky doesn’t have the tactical nous or depth in the backline to dig ourselves out of the rut however as players return from form issues and injury that should naturally translate to better on field performance, and hopefully some wins,

As long as Ricky fields the best 17 players week in week out in their natural positions, we will eventually come good, even with a tactically inept coach. The nuclear option of sacking the coach and/or playing group rarely ever works.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by GreenMachine »

Old squad, not refreshed enough will lose interest in the messages delivered by the same coach.
Ricky should play it smart and start shipping a few away if he wants to stay head coach. Force a rebuild while some of the players may still have value and will tempt other clubs. That’s what Bellyache has been great at doing.
Otherwise, he runs the risk of worse results.
There’s no doubt in my mind we’re on the down cycle now and the longer we wait for Ricky to recognise this the worse it will get...
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Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by LastRaider »

Definitely losing the squad. EDIT

Unfortunately the Raiders are too conservative and need the place to completely fall apart like Furners last days for the club to do anything.


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Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by GreenMachine »

EDIT just saying what the players and the fans are saying...
I don’t understand the issue here...
I mean Ricky himself has stated how much he listens to the players (particularly the forwards) when it comes to rotation and starting...
What’s the big deal now?
I guess it’s easier to crow on about player empowerment when your winning, but harder to do when your losing and set in your stubborn ways...
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

There is a lot of talk about the leadership in the squad. We have two captains a raft of spiritual leaders and various heart and soul players that many want to see progress to club roles in retirement. Yet when things don’t click it’s all on Ricky? Not saying he is without blame here but the criticism seems to vary from him being too conservative with selections through to him not sticking solid. Who’d be an NRL coach hey.....
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Botman »

Culture and winning/losing the squad is for the most part, a direct result of performance (there are obviously cases where a coach does something so on the nose that they lose respect of their players regardless of record, but that's pretty rare and doesnt apply to this case)

Most of these players have played under Stuart for a long time, his methods are no unknown to them... he's a prickly, abrasive sort of character and the simply reality is when you're winning, you deal with it. And when you're losing, everyone wants to point fingers and when the finger gets pointed at you, you're less inclined to grin and bear it

This is a football team which had extremely high expectations coming into the season and they're failing to sniff their goals. That's a recipe for organisational unrest
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Yeah I don't know. There's a decent amount of people in the team who have been under Stick for a long time now. I would think if Ricky was to lose the squad, it would have happened a long time before now. Papa, Croker, Hodgson, Sia, Whitehead, Havilii - These guys have seen the worst of Stick, and would be used to it by now.

Stick has been saying for a while now how he lets the players dictate the culture, not him. Im think what's happening now is a player thing, not so much a coach thing.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

One thing I did find interesting was a comment before Aekins debut where Ricky said that when CNKs injury was confirmed he asked his senior players who they wanted as a replacement and they all said Aekins. I see that as a possible indicator of very good collaborative leader with healthy trust in the group. It could also see how it might be abrasive if not everyone was onboard with the decision. You would hope senior players weren’t similarly consulted about the recent droppings as that wouldn’t be good.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I posted this in the other thread but it is more at hone here. We may just be witnessing stage 5 of the Ricky Stuart coaching life cycle.

Build squad (2014/2015)>

Brief period of moderate success (2016) >

Squad gets stale, toxic elements emerge and players stop buying into Ricky’s message (2017/18) >

Dismantle/rebuild squad with new branding and enjoy period of moderate success (2019/20) >

Squad gets stale, toxic elements emerge and players stop buying into Rickys message (2021).

I think at most other clubs you get to maximum stage 3 you don’t really get a chance at a second rebuild.

Ricky will most likely get a chance at a third if the life cycle is playing out as I am guessing it will.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by LastRaider »

Yep I agree Mickey_raider Stuart will get a third rebuild and probably a fourth.


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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by The Nickman »

I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Botman »

LastRaider wrote: May 3, 2021, 6:54 pm Yep I agree Mickey_raider Stuart will get a third rebuild and probably a fourth.


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he'll get as many as he likes unless the players start going awol, and openly revolting. And even then they might just move the players on
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Raiders_Pat »

If things went really pear shaped and we finished somewhere in the bottom 3, then repeated it again next year and lost a handful of rep players in the process, I think we'd see a new coach. But things would have to get that bad.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

How longs Stick signed for? The club has only ever dropped one coach mid-contract, and that was Furner to get Stick. I don’t see them giving Stick the same treatment
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Finchy »

The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by kiwi raider »

Raiders_Pat wrote: May 3, 2021, 8:00 pm If things went really pear shaped and we finished somewhere in the bottom 3, then repeated it again next year and lost a handful of rep players in the process, I think we'd see a new coach. But things would have to get that bad.
Now that sounds like a good plan!
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by raidersmalt »

I think the club is generally way too cautious with changing coaches..... most coaches don't get that long at a club.....much like players, sometimes the club needs a new coach to freshen things up.

Ricky has done an amazing job, I'm not calling for him to be sacked, but I wish the club didn't have some weird pride about only having sacked one coach.

There's a certain pride in realising when changes are needed, and acting.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by The Nickman »

Finchy wrote:
The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
I think the players are still bleeding green, they’re just struggling to stick solid at present.

I may be reading it wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by gergreg »

The Nickman wrote:
Finchy wrote:
The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
I think the players are still bleeding green, they’re just struggling to stick solid at present.

I may be reading it wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

raidersmalt wrote: May 4, 2021, 7:17 am I think the club is generally way too cautious with changing coaches..... most coaches don't get that long at a club.....much like players, sometimes the club needs a new coach to freshen things up.

Ricky has done an amazing job, I'm not calling for him to be sacked, but I wish the club didn't have some weird pride about only having sacked one coach.

There's a certain pride in realising when changes are needed, and acting.
There is an NRL club board out there somewhere that is poorer for you not being on it Raidersmalt.... Can I paraphrase your post as “I’m not calling for Ricky to be sacked - I just don’t want him here doing what he’s doing any longer”. That is CEO territory - You’re essentially saying Ricky has the boards full confidence.... 🤣
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Billy Walker »

gergreg wrote: May 4, 2021, 7:52 am
The Nickman wrote:
Finchy wrote:
The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
I think the players are still bleeding green, they’re just struggling to stick solid at present.

I may be reading it wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Raiders666 »

The Mole reporting other clubs are circling Joe Tapine: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/mole-canbe ... 2712651734
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Northern Raider »

Good old The Mole. Classic 1+1=3 reporting we expect from him. There's obviously issues here with Taps being dropped then the social media comments from his wife. Moley taking a stab in the dark so he can claim the scoop if Taps does move on.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by Northern Raider »

Billy Walker wrote: May 4, 2021, 7:55 am
gergreg wrote: May 4, 2021, 7:52 am
The Nickman wrote:
Finchy wrote:
The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
I think the players are still bleeding green, they’re just struggling to stick solid at present.

I may be reading it wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by PerthRaider86 »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: May 3, 2021, 8:12 pm How longs Stick signed for? The club has only ever dropped one coach mid-contract, and that was Furner to get Stick. I don’t see them giving Stick the same treatment
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by BJ »

Northern Raider wrote:Good old The Mole. Classic 1+1=3 reporting we expect from him. There's obviously issues here with Taps being dropped then the social media comments from his wife. Moley taking a stab in the dark so he can claim the scoop if Taps does move on.
BJ Mole agrees with The Mole on Tapine and also reckons 1+1 = 3.

That’s more because of my education at Holder High and not necessarily in support of my great Mole colleague.
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Re: Is Ricky losing the team?

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote: May 4, 2021, 7:52 am
The Nickman wrote:
Finchy wrote:
The Nickman wrote: May 3, 2021, 7:50 pm I just think he should stick solid, like rayden said.
So no bleeding green as well? Just stick solid?
I think the players are still bleeding green, they’re just struggling to stick solid at present.

I may be reading it wrong, but that’s just my personal opinion.
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How long have you got?
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