2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
2
13%
Raiders 1-12
3
19%
Draw
0
No votes
Rabbitohs 1-12
2
13%
Rabbitohs 13+
9
56%
 
Total votes: 16

TongueFTW
Dean Lance
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by TongueFTW »

The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
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Lucy
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Lucy »

Waking up to Ricky's excuses re the ref and the other team trying too hard is adding plenty of salt to my bacon and eggs.

That guy is a deluded peanut. Deadset, I have never met anyone more adverse to accountability than him, and that includes me.

He needs to go. This coaching thing has passed him.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:04 am The obstructions were 100% correct.
Not sure why people are even focusing on them.

What about our inept 20 minutes after half time or the calamity capers defence on the edges?

Or how about Rickys use of the interchange?

Why DID we sign James? What’s the point?
And I like James as a guy and player...
The season has the stench of 2017/2018...

Overrated and outdated as far as applying ourselves to the new rules.

Oh, and fack the NRL for their morbid sense of humour by allocating the tag team pin head combo of Cummings and Peanut in the bunker....
I love how you start your rant with saying the refs weren't to blame and then end it blaming the refs... sensational stuff.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
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GreenMachine
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:23 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:04 am The obstructions were 100% correct.
Not sure why people are even focusing on them.

What about our inept 20 minutes after half time or the calamity capers defence on the edges?

Or how about Rickys use of the interchange?

Why DID we sign James? What’s the point?
And I like James as a guy and player...
The season has the stench of 2017/2018...

Overrated and outdated as far as applying ourselves to the new rules.

Oh, and fack the NRL for their morbid sense of humour by allocating the tag team pin head combo of Cummings and Peanut in the bunker....
I love how you start your rant with saying the refs weren't to blame and then end it blaming the refs... sensational stuff.
Oh don’t get me wrong..
I hate both those refs with a passion for very obvious reasons.
Nothing to do with last nights result.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Lucy wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:18 am Waking up to Ricky's excuses re the ref and the other team trying too hard is adding plenty of salt to my bacon and eggs.

That guy is a deluded peanut. Deadset, I have never met anyone more adverse to accountability than him, and that includes me.

He needs to go. This coaching thing has passed him.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Who is this Ricky you mention? I assume you're talking about Rocky Stewart??
TongueFTW
Dean Lance
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by TongueFTW »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Of course communication is important - but a few of those tries were simple one on one misses, and others were being outnumbered due to momentum. You can have CNK at the back yelling “go right” as much as you want, it doesn’t stop it. He was there for the Warriors game - yes, there were injuries (though our current use of the bench probably means the same total minutes played by certain props), but the point still stands. Last week is a different story, I do think he legitimately wins us last week - but we have had a number of games this year and last (Knights 2020, Melbourne 2020, Penrith 2020, Warriors 2021), where CNK has been present and we have leaked a lot of points, in a similar “style” to how we have leaked against Eels and Souths.
Last edited by TongueFTW on April 30, 2021, 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GreenMachine
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Wiki Special
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Wiki Special »

My issues with the Obstructions last night lay simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
Last edited by Wiki Special on April 30, 2021, 7:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yawn, go away, I'm tired of your garbage.

Happy to have this discussion with people whose opinions I respect, but not you.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am My take on the Obstructions last night simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
I thought the first one was correct, but the second one shouldn't have counted because literally nobody was obstructed.

But it is what it is, I can see why they ruled it that way, I just disagree in this instance.
Bay53
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

I wish Nick was right. I wish all our problems could be blamed on CNK being out. Because there is a solution for that. It might be a few weeks away, but that problem has a solution.

Sadly I think our problems run a lot deeper.
Wiki Special
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Wiki Special »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:37 am
Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am My take on the Obstructions last night simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
I thought the first one was correct, but the second one shouldn't have counted because literally nobody was obstructed.

But it is what it is, I can see why they ruled it that way, I just disagree in this instance.
Yes, I understand that technically the rulings are correct. I just despise the fact players can be rewarded for taking a soft option on purpose to milk a penalty.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Of course communication is important - but a few of those tries were simple one on one misses, and others were being outnumbered due to momentum. You can have CNK at the back yelling “go right” as much as you want, it doesn’t stop it. He was there for the Warriors game - yes, there were injuries (though our current use of the bench probably means the same total minutes played by certain props), but the point still stands. Last week is a different story, I do think he legitimately wins us last week - but we have had a number of games this year and last (Knights 2020, Melbourne 2020, Penrith 2020, Warriors 2021), where CNK has been present and we have leaked a lot of points, in a similar “style” to how we have leaked against Eels and Souths.
I understand what you're saying, but if a few of those tries per game are covered up by CNK personally and then a few more because the whole defence moves better due to communication from the fullback and we're back to seeing the numbers we're used to seeing in defence. You'll always get one on one misses, and personally, I prefer those misses to when the entire structure breaks down, as they're just a part of the game.

Put it this way, I think Seiff or gangy or someone said in another post that with CNK we average 15 points a game in defence. Now, in a very VERY simplistic scenario, if we apply 15 points to the opposition in the last four weeks we still lose to the Panthers and the Eels, but we beat the Cowboys and Souths. And I feel that's about where we are right now.
Last edited by The Nickman on April 30, 2021, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by julian87 »

UncleDrew wrote: April 29, 2021, 10:44 pm Simonsson has to go, has not registered a line break or a try all season, offers very little coming out of our red zone and is a liability in defence.
Jesus Christ this bloke is the most unfairly targeted player.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:39 am I wish Nick was right. I wish all our problems could be blamed on CNK being out. Because there is a solution for that. It might be a few weeks away, but that problem has a solution.

Sadly I think our problems run a lot deeper.
When did I say that?

You're the LAST bloke I'd pick for a Strawman, Sean!
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:40 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:37 am
Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am My take on the Obstructions last night simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
I thought the first one was correct, but the second one shouldn't have counted because literally nobody was obstructed.

But it is what it is, I can see why they ruled it that way, I just disagree in this instance.
Yes, I understand that technically the rulings are correct. I just despise the fact players can be rewarded for taking a soft option on purpose to milk a penalty.
Yeah, but Guler shouldn't have been just standing there like a dummy, that was a problem, and that's why a penalty was deserved.

CHN on the other side made every attempt to not get involved in the play, didn't obstruct a single defender and common sense really should've applied to the ruling.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:37 am
Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am My take on the Obstructions last night simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
I thought the first one was correct, but the second one shouldn't have counted because literally nobody was obstructed.

But it is what it is, I can see why they ruled it that way, I just disagree in this instance.
I see where you are coming from, but the response would be, he has gone behind the player in the line and we have scored, so clearly there has been an advantage.

I am comfortable with that logic because if you go against it it becomes even harder to interpret.

The first one was a bit of inexperience from Guler who I thought had a pretty good game. If you go into the line, you need to keep going, not stop. Marshall played it brilliantly. Knew he couldn’t get Wighton but ran into Guler and that was it.
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Lucy
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Lucy »

The Nickman wrote:
Lucy wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:18 am Waking up to Ricky's excuses re the ref and the other team trying too hard is adding plenty of salt to my bacon and eggs.

That guy is a deluded peanut. Deadset, I have never met anyone more adverse to accountability than him, and that includes me.

He needs to go. This coaching thing has passed him.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Who is this Ricky you mention? I assume you're talking about Rocky Stewart??
Damn autocorrect.

Rocky.

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Lucy
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Lucy »

julian87 wrote:
UncleDrew wrote: April 29, 2021, 10:44 pm Simonsson has to go, has not registered a line break or a try all season, offers very little coming out of our red zone and is a liability in defence.
Jesus Christ this bloke is the most unfairly targeted player.
Simonsson is as theatening as a spatula.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Bay53
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:42 am
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:39 am I wish Nick was right. I wish all our problems could be blamed on CNK being out. Because there is a solution for that. It might be a few weeks away, but that problem has a solution.

Sadly I think our problems run a lot deeper.
When did I say that?

You're the LAST bloke I'd pick for a Strawman, Sean!
I think you have been banging the drum for a few weeks that CNK’s loss is the major factor in our demise. It is a factor, don’t disagree but only one of many.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:44 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:37 am
Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am My take on the Obstructions last night simply with the fact they aren't rewarding effort. The last one, if a player drops in general play before a player runs around them it is generally play on. It only changes on a scoring play. CHN made a huge effort to not interfere with play - and didn't - but that effort was not rewarded. The Benji one actively allowed the Bunker to reward him for taking the soft option. If the Ref can subjectively rule players are 'Milking' the ruck and yell it out every set then why can't the Video Ref rule a player 'Milks' an Obstruction when it is there for all to see and is obvious, not subjective?
I thought the first one was correct, but the second one shouldn't have counted because literally nobody was obstructed.

But it is what it is, I can see why they ruled it that way, I just disagree in this instance.
I see where you are coming from, but the response would be, he has gone behind the player in the line and we have scored, so clearly there has been an advantage.

I am comfortable with that logic because if you go against it it becomes even harder to interpret.

The first one was a bit of inexperience from Guler who I thought had a pretty good game. If you go into the line, you need to keep going, not stop. Marshall played it brilliantly. Knew he couldn’t get Wighton but ran into Guler and that was it.
But by that logic every single time someone runs behind their own player it should be called a penalty, and the referees just don't interpret it like that. They're pretty hard and fast on the ruling that as soon as you go behind your own guy, if any defender is impeded in the slightest, it's a penalty, otherwise, play on.

In this instance nobody was remotely disadvantaged that I could see.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Oh, and another thing, did anyone see the full replay of the Sutton/Burgess debarkle? It seemed to me that Sutton got tackled, and when getting up to play the ball Burgess was all over him and he dropped it. But when they went to the replay they only showed the last portion of the play so it looked like Sutton dropped it in the tackle.

Anyone else notice that or has the opportunity to review the FULL play?
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Wiki Special »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:48 am Oh, and another thing, did anyone see the full replay of the Sutton/Burgess debarkle? It seemed to me that Sutton got tackled, and when getting up to play the ball Burgess was all over him and he dropped it. But when they went to the replay they only showed the last portion of the play so it looked like Sutton dropped it in the tackle.

Anyone else notice that or has the opportunity to review the FULL play?
You are spot on with that assessment.
Last edited by Wiki Special on April 30, 2021, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Nickman
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:46 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:42 am
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:39 am I wish Nick was right. I wish all our problems could be blamed on CNK being out. Because there is a solution for that. It might be a few weeks away, but that problem has a solution.

Sadly I think our problems run a lot deeper.
When did I say that?

You're the LAST bloke I'd pick for a Strawman, Sean!
I think you have been banging the drum for a few weeks that CNK’s loss is the major factor in our demise. It is a factor, don’t disagree but only one of many.
I don't disagree with that, I've never once said it's ALL our problems, but it's the single biggest issue with our whole defensive structure at the moment.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Wiki Special wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:49 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:48 am Oh, and another thing, did anyone see the full replay of the Sutton/Burgess debarkle? It seemed to me that Sutton got tackled, and when getting up to play the ball Burgess was all over him and he dropped it. But when they went to the replay they only showed the last portion of the play so it looked like Sutton dropped it in the tackle.

Anyone else notice that or has the opportunity to review the FULL play?
You are spot on with that assesment.
It was mind-blowing. I was yelling "review it, review it" and then when they did they only reviewed the last two seconds so it looked like Sutton was getting tackled and dropped it, rather than getting up to play the ball, being monstered and dropping it.

If I'm Rocky Stewart I'm blowing up at that as much as the obstruction calls. What the **** was the video ref doing there?
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Mickey_Raider »

If someone listened to Bennett and Stuart’s pressers without knowing the result beforehand they would think Souths lost.

Bennett wasn’t happy with the performance of his team whereas Sticky seemed pretty positive about the performance and saved his ire for the refs.

Pretty emblematic of where the two clubs sit at the moment. Souths are up to their eyeballs in a title fight whereas we are up to our eyeballs in whingeing, excuses and accountability avoidance.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:04 am
Why DID we sign James? What’s the point?
And I like James as a guy and player...
I left the game thinking the same thing, BUT to be fair to the player and those who made the decision to sign him, he was brought here to be the 17th man in a grand final side.

If he plays a role like he did in the Tigers game, or even he plays exactly the same role he did last night, where I thought he gave us a really good platform, and then we have Tapine and Papalii coming off the bench and being the best forwards in the game, and we win, James is a very astute signing.

As it is at the moment and we are expecting him to have a good first stint, then come back again in the 2nd half and do the same, I just don’t think his body is up to it, and that is why Ricky used him how he did.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:53 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:04 am
Why DID we sign James? What’s the point?
And I like James as a guy and player...
I left the game thinking the same thing, BUT to be fair to the player and those who made the decision to sign him, he was brought here to be the 17th man in a grand final side.

If he plays a role like he did in the Tigers game, or even he plays exactly the same role he did last night, where I thought he gave us a really good platform, and then we have Tapine and Papalii coming off the bench and being the best forwards in the game, and we win, James is a very astute signing.

As it is at the moment and we are expecting him to have a good first stint, then come back again in the 2nd half and do the same, I just don’t think his body is up to it, and that is why Ricky used him how he did.
James was very, very good. I was impressed by his hit-ups and think his go-forward was a big reason we got on the front foot early. So why did he never come back?

It's classic Rocky Stewart.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Mickey_Raider wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:52 am If someone listened to Bennett and Stuart’s pressers without knowing the result beforehand they would think Souths lost.

Bennett wasn’t happy with the performance of his team whereas Sticky seemed pretty positive about the performance and saved his ire for the refs.

Pretty emblematic of where the two clubs sit at the moment. Souths are up to their eyeballs in a title fight whereas we are up to our eyeballs in whingeing, excuses and accountability avoidance.
I just watched the presser. I can’t disagree with one word Ricky said. There was effort there last night, but we make the same mistakes continually.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 8:00 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:52 am If someone listened to Bennett and Stuart’s pressers without knowing the result beforehand they would think Souths lost.

Bennett wasn’t happy with the performance of his team whereas Sticky seemed pretty positive about the performance and saved his ire for the refs.

Pretty emblematic of where the two clubs sit at the moment. Souths are up to their eyeballs in a title fight whereas we are up to our eyeballs in whingeing, excuses and accountability avoidance.
I just watched the presser. I can’t disagree with one word Ricky said. There was effort there last night, but we make the same mistakes continually.
What I found interesting is that I thought our attack looked the best it has all season with Whitehead playing the right half role. We attacked both edges and looked quite good doing it, whereas normally Scott and co catch a cold down that side.

It's no coincidence to me that Scott looked the best attacking wise that he has in two seasons in green. Just needs more ball.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 8:02 am
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 8:00 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:52 am If someone listened to Bennett and Stuart’s pressers without knowing the result beforehand they would think Souths lost.

Bennett wasn’t happy with the performance of his team whereas Sticky seemed pretty positive about the performance and saved his ire for the refs.

Pretty emblematic of where the two clubs sit at the moment. Souths are up to their eyeballs in a title fight whereas we are up to our eyeballs in whingeing, excuses and accountability avoidance.
I just watched the presser. I can’t disagree with one word Ricky said. There was effort there last night, but we make the same mistakes continually.
What I found interesting is that I thought our attack looked the best it has all season with Whitehead playing the right half role. We attacked both edges and looked quite good doing it, whereas normally Scott and co catch a cold down that side.

It's no coincidence to me that Scott looked the best attacking wise that he has in two seasons in green. Just needs more ball.
Scott will live and die on his defence. If he gets his defence right as he did in the first half last night, the attack comes easy for him when he has some confidence.

In the second half we conceded down his channel and he went back into his shell until that great run to set up the last try.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by The Nickman »

He needs ball though. His attack will never come easy when he gets no ball, and unfortunately, both Williams and Wighton play left.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:36 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yawn, go away, I'm tired of your garbage.

Happy to have this discussion with people whose opinions I respect, but not you.
:roflmao
When your full time job is trying to push your point, it’s time to rethink whether you have a point in the first place.

CNK isn’t the silver bullet solution.
We miss him at fullback, but not as much as we miss making tackles we should be making or giving away stupid penalties...

But hey, enjoy your job 🤣👍
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:53 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:04 am
Why DID we sign James? What’s the point?
And I like James as a guy and player...
I left the game thinking the same thing, BUT to be fair to the player and those who made the decision to sign him, he was brought here to be the 17th man in a grand final side.

If he plays a role like he did in the Tigers game, or even he plays exactly the same role he did last night, where I thought he gave us a really good platform, and then we have Tapine and Papalii coming off the bench and being the best forwards in the game, and we win, James is a very astute signing.

As it is at the moment and we are expecting him to have a good first stint, then come back again in the 2nd half and do the same, I just don’t think his body is up to it, and that is why Ricky used him how he did.
The other thing I will add on James is I think he is playing with an injured knee. As we know he had a lot of knee injuries but in those first couple of games he had no strapping, he lasted two seconds against the Warriors but I reckon it was the Titans game when he hurt his knee. Last night he had enough strapping to play in a rugby line out.
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