2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

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Who will win?

Raiders 13+
2
13%
Raiders 1-12
3
19%
Draw
0
No votes
Rabbitohs 1-12
2
13%
Rabbitohs 13+
9
56%
 
Total votes: 16

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Finchy
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Finchy »

cat wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:30 pm It will be very interesting to see how Ricky responds to EDIT and I am sure the club has spoken to them about it.

Yes they are entitled to their opinion but airing it publicly like that is a no win situation and EDIT

EDIT

At the end of the day Ricky is the coach and has a lot more experience and knowledge around football then they do and he is the boss.
How many players have sooked and said they want to play another position and then it turns out the coach was right?

At the end of the day EDIT they need to look after the club
I agree, it's a bad look for EDIT and EDIT to be saying EDIT about EDIT. I think Ricky should tell Taps and Papa to pull EDIT and EDIT into line, and stop saying EDIT.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

This Edit character appears to have some gumption. Could we get him in as an assitant?
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

radicalraider wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:06 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:00 pm
BJ wrote: April 30, 2021, 1:23 pm
GreenMachine wrote:Can't believe what i'm reading...wife can't have an opinion? An opinion shared by a lot of people around here too?
Of course tapine’s wife can have an opinion. But if she is prepared to go public, she has to be prepared for the public backlash. She also has to understand how her comments may negatively impact her husband.

This also goes for the wives of politicians, CEO’s, influencers, etc etc.

I imagine many partners of Ministers/politicians would like to complain publicly about how the leader hasn’t given their partner the right opportunity, but they know to bite their tongue for the greater good of the team.
Again I didn't see the post so can't comment. But I am not going to insult the intelligence of Kirsten Tapine or any of the players partners by suggesting any of them are naive enough to believe that if they put something on social media people don't see it and talk about it.
You'd think she'd be smarter.. or atleast he would be
You are assuming she didn’t know exactly what she is doing.

These girls are far more social media aware than their men.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by cat »

Agree bay53
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by lomax »

Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 4:45 pm
radicalraider wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:06 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:00 pm
BJ wrote: April 30, 2021, 1:23 pm
GreenMachine wrote:Can't believe what i'm reading...wife can't have an opinion? An opinion shared by a lot of people around here too?
Of course tapine’s wife can have an opinion. But if she is prepared to go public, she has to be prepared for the public backlash. She also has to understand how her comments may negatively impact her husband.

This also goes for the wives of politicians, CEO’s, influencers, etc etc.

I imagine many partners of Ministers/politicians would like to complain publicly about how the leader hasn’t given their partner the right opportunity, but they know to bite their tongue for the greater good of the team.
Again I didn't see the post so can't comment. But I am not going to insult the intelligence of Kirsten Tapine or any of the players partners by suggesting any of them are naive enough to believe that if they put something on social media people don't see it and talk about it.
You'd think she'd be smarter.. or atleast he would be
You are assuming she didn’t know exactly what she is doing.

These girls are far more social media aware than their men.
She is free to have her opinion and voice it. But maybe she should also voice her opinion on the current form of her husband, who is playing well below his pay rate. Not just looking to blame others for it.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by greeneyed »

'Spot on': Referee's boss Jared Maxwell backs Canberra Raiders no-try rulings

NRL referees boss Jared Maxwell has backed the calls that led to two tries to Raiders five-eighth Jack Wighton being disallowed in Thursday night’s 34-20 loss to South Sydney in Canberra.

“I am very comfortable with the way the Bunker explained the decisions and processed the decisions,” Maxwell said. “They were two different types of obstruction but from my point of view, I think they got the decisions spot on."

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/04/30/spo ... y-rulings/

NRL backs bunker's controversial obstruction calls: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14239
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by cat »

Thanks Jarad, what about a heap of other calls during the night?

You know if you dont allocate Perenara and cummins to raiders games we will believe you more
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

cat wrote:Thanks Jarad, what about a heap of other calls during the night?

You know if you dont allocate Perenara and cummins to raiders games we will believe you more
What calls?

Or are you just complaining about the refs for the sake of it as usual

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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by cat »

-TW- wrote: April 30, 2021, 6:49 pm
cat wrote:Thanks Jarad, what about a heap of other calls during the night?

You know if you dont allocate Perenara and cummins to raiders games we will believe you more
What calls?

Or are you just complaining about the refs for the sake of it as usual

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Not arguing with you TW, you bore me with your lack of knowledge
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Begbie »

hobbsy wrote: April 30, 2021, 3:12 pm How many degrees of separation do you have to have from a player before you're allowed to publicly criticise the coach like we do?
3
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

cat wrote:
-TW- wrote: April 30, 2021, 6:49 pm
cat wrote:Thanks Jarad, what about a heap of other calls during the night?

You know if you dont allocate Perenara and cummins to raiders games we will believe you more
What calls?

Or are you just complaining about the refs for the sake of it as usual

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Not arguing with you TW, you bore me with your lack of knowledge
**** you're a child

Didn't realise whinging about literally everything is considered "knowledge"
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

Like it or not, both obstruction calls were correct.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Raider47 »

On another note I hope people on social media ie Raider Nick, will quit saying "go and support your team instead of whinging". We have over 14k on a cold school night off the back of trash form and being at the game the Raiders fans didn't quit having hope until the last two mins.

Sick of people labelling Raiders fans as fickle and that fans shouldn't be critical.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Raidersteve »

-PJ- wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:08 pm Like it or not, both obstruction calls were correct.
Both were correct by the letter of the rules of the game but the black and white interpretation of the rules lacks common sense which is where the issue lies.

I would prefer an interpretation that follows common sense or a sense of the game rather than denying a try on a technicality. The defence weren't disadvantaged in either try. Benji deliberately didn't make a play at Wighton and CHN slipped before the line and impeded no one.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by -PJ- »

Raidersteve wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:33 pm
-PJ- wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:08 pm Like it or not, both obstruction calls were correct.
Both were correct by the letter of the rules of the game but the black and white interpretation of the rules lacks common sense which is where the issue lies.

I would prefer an interpretation that follows common sense or a sense of the game rather than denying a try on a technicality. The defence weren't disadvantaged in either try. Benji deliberately didn't make a play at Wighton and CHN slipped before the line and impeded no one.
So..you don’t like it.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

hobbsy wrote: April 30, 2021, 3:12 pm How many degrees of separation do you have to have from a player before you're allowed to publicly criticise the coach like we do?
The official answer to that is you have to be not an employee of the club. The wives and partners fall into that category even though it is said club that funds much of their lifestyle.

(Of course many have their own careers too, but seldom would that be as lucrative as their partners current career)
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Bay53 »

lomax wrote: April 30, 2021, 5:12 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 4:45 pm
radicalraider wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:06 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:00 pm
BJ wrote: April 30, 2021, 1:23 pm

Of course tapine’s wife can have an opinion. But if she is prepared to go public, she has to be prepared for the public backlash. She also has to understand how her comments may negatively impact her husband.

This also goes for the wives of politicians, CEO’s, influencers, etc etc.

I imagine many partners of Ministers/politicians would like to complain publicly about how the leader hasn’t given their partner the right opportunity, but they know to bite their tongue for the greater good of the team.
Again I didn't see the post so can't comment. But I am not going to insult the intelligence of Kirsten Tapine or any of the players partners by suggesting any of them are naive enough to believe that if they put something on social media people don't see it and talk about it.
You'd think she'd be smarter.. or atleast he would be
You are assuming she didn’t know exactly what she is doing.

These girls are far more social media aware than their men.
She is free to have her opinion and voice it. But maybe she should also voice her opinion on the current form of her husband, who is playing well below his pay rate. Not just looking to blame others for it.
It is not unexpected nor even unhealthy for a partner to perhaps unreasonably defend their man. Whether they should do it in a public forum is questionable.

But of course their loyalties lie with their man.

These sorts of things tend to end very quickly when we start winning.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Postman Pat »

Bay53 wrote:
lomax wrote: April 30, 2021, 5:12 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 4:45 pm
radicalraider wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:06 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:00 pm

Again I didn't see the post so can't comment. But I am not going to insult the intelligence of Kirsten Tapine or any of the players partners by suggesting any of them are naive enough to believe that if they put something on social media people don't see it and talk about it.
You'd think she'd be smarter.. or atleast he would be
You are assuming she didn’t know exactly what she is doing.

These girls are far more social media aware than their men.
She is free to have her opinion and voice it. But maybe she should also voice her opinion on the current form of her husband, who is playing well below his pay rate. Not just looking to blame others for it.
It is not unexpected nor even unhealthy for a partner to perhaps unreasonably defend their man. Whether they should do it in a public forum is questionable.

But of course their loyalties lie with their man.

These sorts of things tend to end very quickly when we start winning.
I don’t put much concern into it, EDIT it’s nothing story and to be fair we all thought the same thing.
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2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by gangrenous »

I don’t agree with people saying there was no impact to defence in the CHN one. Sure he hit the deck, but it’s not hide and seek and just about seeing Wighton. He did have to subtly go around CHN to get to Wighton. Small impact, but small impacts matter when it might be the difference in laying a hand.

In both cases I think we had more chance if the Raider kept moving instead of stopped. If Guler kept moving back to the line Benji can’t justify following him and faking obstruction. If CHN keeps running through the line either he puts enough gap between him and Wighton that there’s legitimately no impact OR he clearly impacts and Wighton needs to have the nous to hit the deck.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Boomercm »

radicalraider wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:06 pm
Bay53 wrote: April 30, 2021, 2:00 pm
BJ wrote: April 30, 2021, 1:23 pm
GreenMachine wrote:Can't believe what i'm reading...wife can't have an opinion? An opinion shared by a lot of people around here too?
Of course tapine’s wife can have an opinion. But if she is prepared to go public, she has to be prepared for the public backlash. She also has to understand how her comments may negatively impact her husband.

This also goes for the wives of politicians, CEO’s, influencers, etc etc.

I imagine many partners of Ministers/politicians would like to complain publicly about how the leader hasn’t given their partner the right opportunity, but they know to bite their tongue for the greater good of the team.
Again I didn't see the post so can't comment. But I am not going to insult the intelligence of Kirsten Tapine or any of the players partners by suggesting any of them are naive enough to believe that if they put something on social media people don't see it and talk about it.
You'd think she'd be smarter.. or atleast he would be
these things happen when players (and by extension families) don't feel they have a channel to be heard within the system/bubble. communication between the players and coaching staff is obviously not going well
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Roger Kenworthy »

gangrenous wrote: April 30, 2021, 8:57 pm I don’t agree with people saying there was no impact to defence in the CHN one. Sure he hit the deck, but it’s not hide and seek and just about seeing Wighton. He did have to subtly go around CHN to get to Wighton. Small impact, but small impacts matter when it might be the difference in laying a hand.

In both cases I think we had more chance if the Raider kept moving instead of stopped. If Guler kept moving back to the line Benji can’t justify following him and faking obstruction. If CHN keeps running through the line either he puts enough gap between him and Wighton that there’s legitimately no impact OR he clearly impacts and Wighton needs to have the nous to hit the deck.
I don't think the CHN one would have mattered as he would have still run around the back of CHN, which is always an instant penalty.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

Raidersteve wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:33 pm
-PJ- wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:08 pm Like it or not, both obstruction calls were correct.
Both were correct by the letter of the rules of the game but the black and white interpretation of the rules lacks common sense which is where the issue lies.

I would prefer an interpretation that follows common sense or a sense of the game rather than denying a try on a technicality. The defence weren't disadvantaged in either try. Benji deliberately didn't make a play at Wighton and CHN slipped before the line and impeded no one.
People complained when discretion was allowed, because they found it inconsistent

Wighton should know not to run into a gap where a player is lurking. Honestly it's common sense and shows a bit of a lack of footy smarts to be honest
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Knotincelly22 »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 1, 2021, 9:26 am
Raidersteve wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:33 pm
-PJ- wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:08 pm Like it or not, both obstruction calls were correct.
Both were correct by the letter of the rules of the game but the black and white interpretation of the rules lacks common sense which is where the issue lies.

I would prefer an interpretation that follows common sense or a sense of the game rather than denying a try on a technicality. The defence weren't disadvantaged in either try. Benji deliberately didn't make a play at Wighton and CHN slipped before the line and impeded no one.
People complained when discretion was allowed, because they found it inconsistent

Wighton should know not to run into a gap where a player is lurking. Honestly it's common sense and shows a bit of a lack of footy smarts to be honest
Wighton has the highest footy IQ in the team. I like Guler but this was on him.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Boomercm »

GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yes I think our problems are bigger than CNK's absence... But I'm going to add one more thing CNK brings to the team that hasn't been mentioned as often recently, and when it was mentioned in the past - it was usually spun as a negative. He brings 160-200m in tough carries. Often 2 per set when its really tough.

I've been in the bunch that has been critical of him for doing this - thinking he was wasting himself on tough carries, then not being available for more expansive attack, or following up with runs through the middle looking for offloads. But we are now seeing how it would be very difficult for him to do this - as our outside backs and forwards are just not able or willing to take those hard carries and make those hard meters.

This is a real problem because making those meters should not be his job

EDIT - he probably only makes 70-100 of those meters as tough carries. But the timing of them seems more important than I previously realised.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Absolutely the right play by Wighton, it's his bread and butter play. Have a look at the replay- Guler stops halfway through the line and starts ball watching- when ideally he'd already be moving out of the line in either direction as soon as he sees Jack take off. It takes Guler probably one second too long to switch on and realise he needs to start backing out of the line but Benji is thinking one second faster than he is and does what he can do force the obstruction.

It was a momentary laps by Guler, relatively minor but just that hint of sloppy that divides really well drilled teams from slightly ragged teams. We have been slightly ragged for one reason or another all year imo. Things like the general error count, CHN level penalty counts etc, magnified by the constant injury changes and rotating roster just have us off kilter.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by BadnMean »

Boomercm wrote: May 1, 2021, 9:50 am
Yes I think our problems are bigger than CNK's absence... But I'm going to add one more thing CNK brings to the team that hasn't been mentioned as often recently, and when it was mentioned in the past - it was usually spun as a negative. He brings 160-200m in tough carries. Often 2 per set when its really tough.

I've been in the bunch that has been critical of him for doing this - thinking he was wasting himself on tough carries, then not being available for more expansive attack, or following up with runs through the middle looking for offloads. But we are now seeing how it would be very difficult for him to do this - as our outside backs and forwards are just not able or willing to take those hard carries and make those hard meters.

This is a real problem because making those meters should not be his job

EDIT - he probably only makes 70-100 of those meters as tough carries. But the timing of them seems more important than I previously realised.
I get what you mean- it's the reason he racks up 200m whereas another FB might rack up 130-150.

I really would rather see our back 5 with a fit Scott taking more of those carries- and he is better at it now, Kris or Timoko instead of Croker, Rapa does just fine at making yards imo and perhaps Valemi or Hoppa offering a touch more oomph than Simo... without Croker getting buckled each time and slightly improved output from the rest I'd like CNK to pick his moments a bit and DO that pushing up in support because players like Starling, Papa, Tapine, CHN in your team DEMAND that you have some good support play or you're wasting their talents and stifling your own attack.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by BJ »

Calls were technically correct and Guler in particular stuffed up.

What frustrates some of us has been the Video Ref awarding tries in similar situations based on “it was a defensive decision to take the lead runner” or “The defender didn’t make a genuine effort” or the doozy “in our opinion the action of the lead runner didn’t have an effect on the play”

Raiders defenders have been run directly into by the lead runner, only to have it deemed they were defensive decisions. Anyone who regularly watches NRL will have seen plenty of grey in the Video Ref rulings on lead runners.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Canberra Milk »

It may be Guler's fault but come on, how does Wighton not notice it. He was right there. Agree to disagree
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by GreenMachine »

Boomercm wrote: May 1, 2021, 9:50 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yes I think our problems are bigger than CNK's absence... But I'm going to add one more thing CNK brings to the team that hasn't been mentioned as often recently, and when it was mentioned in the past - it was usually spun as a negative. He brings 160-200m in tough carries. Often 2 per set when its really tough.

I've been in the bunch that has been critical of him for doing this - thinking he was wasting himself on tough carries, then not being available for more expansive attack, or following up with runs through the middle looking for offloads. But we are now seeing how it would be very difficult for him to do this - as our outside backs and forwards are just not able or willing to take those hard carries and make those hard meters.

This is a real problem because making those meters should not be his job

EDIT - he probably only makes 70-100 of those meters as tough carries. But the timing of them seems more important than I previously realised.

Agree on the carries and yardage out of our end....we absolutely miss that aspect from CNK's game..
However, as many have argued, he doesn't need to play fullback to provide that output....he could easily play on the wing or centre and provide the same.
We could upgrade to a better ball playing fullback and KEEP CNK in the backline providing the tough runs and defence...that's what a lot of us see as a win win for the team...
The problem is whether Ricky will allow this to happen.
Knotincelly22
Terry Campese
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Knotincelly22 »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 1, 2021, 10:27 am It may be Guler's fault but come on, how does Wighton not notice it. He was right there. Agree to disagree
His running game is one of the best in the NRL precisely for the fact that he doesn't hesitate-this is the same as people saying he should've seen the six again call reversed in the GF. Regardless, it was called try and try then rescinded-you win the race first and hope to hold it onto it in the stewards' room.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Knotincelly22 »

BadnMean wrote: May 1, 2021, 10:04 am Absolutely the right play by Wighton, it's his bread and butter play. Have a look at the replay- Guler stops halfway through the line and starts ball watching- when ideally he'd already be moving out of the line in either direction as soon as he sees Jack take off. It takes Guler probably one second too long to switch on and realise he needs to start backing out of the line but Benji is thinking one second faster than he is and does what he can do force the obstruction.

It was a momentary laps by Guler, relatively minor but just that hint of sloppy that divides really well drilled teams from slightly ragged teams. We have been slightly ragged for one reason or another all year imo. Things like the general error count, CHN level penalty counts etc, magnified by the constant injury changes and rotating roster just have us off kilter.
100% this.
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-TW-
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by -TW- »

BJ wrote:Calls were technically correct and Guler in particular stuffed up.

What frustrates some of us has been the Video Ref awarding tries in similar situations based on “it was a defensive decision to take the lead runner” or “The defender didn’t make a genuine effort” or the doozy “in our opinion the action of the lead runner didn’t have an effect on the play”

Raiders defenders have been run directly into by the lead runner, only to have it deemed they were defensive decisions. Anyone who regularly watches NRL will have seen plenty of grey in the Video Ref rulings on lead runners.
That's the thing though, obstructions will never ever be perfect in terms of game sense

We tried having them black and white for half a season and it sucked. The onus should be on the decoy to get out of the line, that takes the interpretation out of it

Catching the ball on the outside of the decoy is the best were going to get

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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afgtnk
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by afgtnk »

Boomercm wrote: May 1, 2021, 9:50 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yes I think our problems are bigger than CNK's absence... But I'm going to add one more thing CNK brings to the team that hasn't been mentioned as often recently, and when it was mentioned in the past - it was usually spun as a negative. He brings 160-200m in tough carries. Often 2 per set when its really tough.

I've been in the bunch that has been critical of him for doing this - thinking he was wasting himself on tough carries, then not being available for more expansive attack, or following up with runs through the middle looking for offloads. But we are now seeing how it would be very difficult for him to do this - as our outside backs and forwards are just not able or willing to take those hard carries and make those hard meters.

This is a real problem because making those meters should not be his job

EDIT - he probably only makes 70-100 of those meters as tough carries. But the timing of them seems more important than I previously realised.
Aekins is making 200m a game atm, which is more than CNK. Think that goes to show how metres from a fullback can be overrated.

He and CNK are very much quantity over quality. Teams would have no fear kicking to them.
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BJ
Steve Walters
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by BJ »

-TW- wrote:
BJ wrote:Calls were technically correct and Guler in particular stuffed up.

What frustrates some of us has been the Video Ref awarding tries in similar situations based on “it was a defensive decision to take the lead runner” or “The defender didn’t make a genuine effort” or the doozy “in our opinion the action of the lead runner didn’t have an effect on the play”

Raiders defenders have been run directly into by the lead runner, only to have it deemed they were defensive decisions. Anyone who regularly watches NRL will have seen plenty of grey in the Video Ref rulings on lead runners.
That's the thing though, obstructions will never ever be perfect in terms of game sense

We tried having them black and white for half a season and it sucked. The onus should be on the decoy to get out of the line, that takes the interpretation out of it

Catching the ball on the outside of the decoy is the best were going to get

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I agree with you.

It’s just that we see too many inconsistencies within these calls.
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Re: 2021 Rd 8 V Rabbitohs: Game Day

Post by Boomercm »

GreenMachine wrote: May 1, 2021, 10:33 am
Boomercm wrote: May 1, 2021, 9:50 am
GreenMachine wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:32 am
The Nickman wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:26 am
TongueFTW wrote: April 30, 2021, 7:14 am The last few weeks, the second halves have been carbon copies of each other. Inability to get out of our end, being pinned in our 10. Fatigue, playing one out, forwards finding it impossible to get into the game since our first 3 tackles are in our own 20. Souths had a number of forwards (Su’a, Knight, Kolomatangi, Arrow, and bloody Mark Nicholls!) break 100m, while we had only Guler. There has to be a circuit breaker, an early shift, a tip on play, an offload, something - you can’t just use outside backs for tackles 1-4, a prop on tackle 4, kick from the 30 and expect different results. It means the opposition start their sets on the 30-40m line, and the cycle continues. The threat of the shift means opposition defence can’t compress like they are doing, and it makes metres easier to come by for our forwards. You need to be varied, but also do it early in games - trying to do it under fatigue is difficult. Wighton also needs to work more on his kicks when we do get in a decent kicking position - they need to land 5-10m out in a corner (like Moses and Reynolds did to us), not on the 20-25m.

I think this cycle has led to our defence being the worst it has been since 2018, we are letting in 2-3 tries from simple numbering up. Both of our second rowers had shockers defensively, either through being out of position (CHN over chasing) or simple one on one misses (Young). CNK does make a difference, but he wouldn’t have been stopping many of those tries. I called for Whitehead and Rapana to be moved to the right before the game for defensive reasons, I think that is essential, but when your edge is on the back foot and under fatigue, it is hard to keep making the right decisions.
You see, here is the issue and I'm tired of people making this argument. It's not just the tries CNK physically stops himself (and the last two games he probably personally cleans up two to three), it's also the communication that a good defensive fullback brings to his whole defensive line.

Anyone who has played with a good defensive fullback who is always talking knows exactly what I mean here, they move the defensive line left and right, tell everyone where the holes are and just constantly keep communicating.

And THAT'S what we're mainly missing in defence right now.
Jesus, this broken record again.
Please stop.
CNK doesn’t defend on the edge nor impact the arm grabbing technique Hudson Young seemed to implement last night.
Nor does he have anything to do with Corey Haywire Nerra’s one man army of penalty give aways...
The Team Problems are far greater than the positive impact CNK arguably brings..
But please keep spinning...
Yes I think our problems are bigger than CNK's absence... But I'm going to add one more thing CNK brings to the team that hasn't been mentioned as often recently, and when it was mentioned in the past - it was usually spun as a negative. He brings 160-200m in tough carries. Often 2 per set when its really tough.

I've been in the bunch that has been critical of him for doing this - thinking he was wasting himself on tough carries, then not being available for more expansive attack, or following up with runs through the middle looking for offloads. But we are now seeing how it would be very difficult for him to do this - as our outside backs and forwards are just not able or willing to take those hard carries and make those hard meters.

This is a real problem because making those meters should not be his job

EDIT - he probably only makes 70-100 of those meters as tough carries. But the timing of them seems more important than I previously realised.

Agree on the carries and yardage out of our end....we absolutely miss that aspect from CNK's game..
However, as many have argued, he doesn't need to play fullback to provide that output....he could easily play on the wing or centre and provide the same.
We could upgrade to a better ball playing fullback and KEEP CNK in the backline providing the tough runs and defence...that's what a lot of us see as a win win for the team...
The problem is whether Ricky will allow this to happen.
Agree re attack and hard carries. But he can't organise the d from any other position but fullback
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