Mickey_Raider wrote:I think i am kind of in shock that 2 weeks after being considered premiership contenders, as a defence mechanism, I am being forced to transition into "roll your eyes/laugh at how **** we are" mode ala 2013/14 after we lose.
2 weeks, hey? I wonder what significant change to our squad, and perhaps our whole defensive structure, has occurred in the last two weeks?
I know I’m certainly stumped. For some reason our world class defence seems absolutely shot to pieces... like it’s missing its general or something
Like it was shot to pieces when he didn't play against the Cows in Townsville last season. Hahaha hey?!
Or how it managed to keep solid and limit the Panthers to only 28 points last season when he played, instead of 30 this season. Hahaha. Ay? Ay?!
You’re fighting a losing battle now, mate. Why don’t you just acknowledge you’re wrong?
I mean, honestly, your whole argument has always been that CNK lacks as a ball player. Nobody is debating that.
But now you’ve grown your argument to say our defence isn’t completely shot without him... why are you even taking that line? It’s so blatantly incorrect and you’re now just taking a stance to argue something to support a completely different discussion.
You should be better than that... you should be able to argue that his ball playing lacks while still agreeing our whole defensive structure is shot without the guy.
But you can’t do that, and that’s what makes you pathetic as a poster.
The Nickman wrote: ↑April 22, 2021, 9:52 am
Mark my words right now... Cowboys will put at least 20 on us, we need our attack to fire accordingly to outscore them.
Ohh I've marked them.
Great. And where did you mark them??
Hahahahahaha yeah, you're right. Definitely must've been that change to that spine player of ours.
Can you tell me though, how many points did we concede against them in Townsville last season and was that guy playing for us? You seem to be dodging this. I can only assume we went to **** then too, given the importance you're placing.
Mickey_Raider wrote:I think i am kind of in shock that 2 weeks after being considered premiership contenders, as a defence mechanism, I am being forced to transition into "roll your eyes/laugh at how **** we are" mode ala 2013/14 after we lose.
2 weeks, hey? I wonder what significant change to our squad, and perhaps our whole defensive structure, has occurred in the last two weeks?
I know I’m certainly stumped. For some reason our world class defence seems absolutely shot to pieces... like it’s missing its general or something
Like it was shot to pieces when he didn't play against the Cows in Townsville last season. Hahaha hey?!
Or how it managed to keep solid and limit the Panthers to only 28 points last season when he played, instead of 30 this season. Hahaha. Ay? Ay?!
With CNK 2021
Played - 4.25
Average Points Against - 14.1 (including 34 points from a Warriors game with no bench)
Average Points For - 23.3
Without CNK 2021
Played - 2.75
Average Points Against - 33.1
Average Points For - 23.8
Regular Seasons with CNK 2019/2020
Played - 44
Average Points Against - 15.7
Average Points For - 22.0
Prior Regular Seasons without CNK 2017/2018
Played - 48
Average Points Against - 21.6
Average Points For - 23.3
Mickey_Raider wrote:I think i am kind of in shock that 2 weeks after being considered premiership contenders, as a defence mechanism, I am being forced to transition into "roll your eyes/laugh at how **** we are" mode ala 2013/14 after we lose.
2 weeks, hey? I wonder what significant change to our squad, and perhaps our whole defensive structure, has occurred in the last two weeks?
I know I’m certainly stumped. For some reason our world class defence seems absolutely shot to pieces... like it’s missing its general or something
Like it was shot to pieces when he didn't play against the Cows in Townsville last season. Hahaha hey?!
Or how it managed to keep solid and limit the Panthers to only 28 points last season when he played, instead of 30 this season. Hahaha. Ay? Ay?!
With CNK 2021
Played - 4.25
Average Points Against - 14.1 (including 34 points from a Warriors game with no bench)
Average Points For - 23.3
Without CNK 2021
Played - 2.75
Average Points Against - 33.1
Average Points For - 23.8
Regular Seasons with CNK 2019/2020
Played - 44
Average Points Against - 15.7
Average Points For - 22.0
Prior Regular Seasons without CNK 2017/2018
Played - 48
Average Points Against - 21.6
Average Points For - 23.3
Things just aren't going our way at the moment.
Very little luck, a few dodgy calls and a team that's going through a difficult trot.
I have faith we will be ok
On a side note great to see so many raiders fans in Townsville! Shame Nickman snobbed me off!
Mickey_Raider wrote:I think i am kind of in shock that 2 weeks after being considered premiership contenders, as a defence mechanism, I am being forced to transition into "roll your eyes/laugh at how **** we are" mode ala 2013/14 after we lose.
2 weeks, hey? I wonder what significant change to our squad, and perhaps our whole defensive structure, has occurred in the last two weeks?
I know I’m certainly stumped. For some reason our world class defence seems absolutely shot to pieces... like it’s missing its general or something
Like it was shot to pieces when he didn't play against the Cows in Townsville last season. Hahaha hey?!
Or how it managed to keep solid and limit the Panthers to only 28 points last season when he played, instead of 30 this season. Hahaha. Ay? Ay?!
With CNK 2021
Played - 4.25
Average Points Against - 14.1 (including 34 points from a Warriors game with no bench)
Average Points For - 23.3
Without CNK 2021
Played - 2.75
Average Points Against - 33.1
Average Points For - 23.8
Regular Seasons with CNK 2019/2020
Played - 44
Average Points Against - 15.7
Average Points For - 22.0
Prior Regular Seasons without CNK 2017/2018
Played - 48
Average Points Against - 21.6
Average Points For - 23.3
CNK saves atleast 2 tries a game.
It’s not just that, the whole defensive structure relies on his talk, his communication. Anyone with half a rugby league brain who isn’t trying to push some ridiculous agenda can see how much our team misses him out there.
For many teams it’s not as important as it is for us... but our whole game plan is based around solid as **** defence, and has been since the start of 2019 (for some reason), and all of a sudden a key component of that is gone and we’re absolutely toast.
What’s weird to me is that people who were arguing he was a poor ball player are now also trying to build a case that our defence doesn’t miss him.
cat wrote:Things just aren't going our way at the moment.
Very little luck, a few dodgy calls and a team that's going through a difficult trot.
I have faith we will be ok
On a side note great to see so many raiders fans in Townsville! Shame Nickman snobbed me off!
Mickey_Raider wrote:I think i am kind of in shock that 2 weeks after being considered premiership contenders, as a defence mechanism, I am being forced to transition into "roll your eyes/laugh at how **** we are" mode ala 2013/14 after we lose.
2 weeks, hey? I wonder what significant change to our squad, and perhaps our whole defensive structure, has occurred in the last two weeks?
I know I’m certainly stumped. For some reason our world class defence seems absolutely shot to pieces... like it’s missing its general or something
Like it was shot to pieces when he didn't play against the Cows in Townsville last season. Hahaha hey?!
Or how it managed to keep solid and limit the Panthers to only 28 points last season when he played, instead of 30 this season. Hahaha. Ay? Ay?!
You’re fighting a losing battle now, mate. Why don’t you just acknowledge you’re wrong?
I mean, honestly, your whole argument has always been that CNK lacks as a ball player. Nobody is debating that.
But now you’ve grown your argument to say our defence isn’t completely shot without him... why are you even taking that line? It’s so blatantly incorrect and you’re now just taking a stance to argue something to support a completely different discussion.
You should be better than that... you should be able to argue that his ball playing lacks while still agreeing our whole defensive structure is shot without the guy.
But you can’t do that, and that’s what makes you pathetic as a poster.
..... because it's not shot without him. The team is shot. It's the team that **** up. A team doesn't go to **** like this without one player - and certainly not without CNK.
I've just pointed out two of the corresponding fixtures to you, which you have no answer to. Our defence was strong in the corresponding fixture against the Cows when he didn't play. We got belted similarly against the Panthers last season in the corresponding fixture when he did play.
There's nothing really more pathetic than waiting for us to concede/lose and running a very narrow agenda as absolutely hard as only you and gangreous are, IMO, and the reason you're really running it is to try and show how vital CNK is to us in the long term, as well as potray the criticism against him as too harsh. That's the real reason here.
CNK is as every bit a problem in this side as our **** slow outside backs. We don't magically return to being contenders with his simple inclusion - if you believe that, then no one can help you here.
cat wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:10 pm
Things just aren't going our way at the moment.
Very little luck, a few dodgy calls and a team that's going through a difficult trot.
I have faith we will be ok
On a side note great to see so many raiders fans in Townsville! Shame Nickman snobbed me off!
Cat, I think you are being very generous. We are in a lot of trouble.
I will say the ground in Townsville is brilliant. Up there with Parra and Melbourne as two of the best venues to watch footy. I was on half way in the Eastern side three rows from the front and the view was superb.
Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clear house!
Last edited by Green Taipan on April 24, 2021, 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's a simple game; tackle, back-up, pass, hold the ball! What did I say? "Hold the bloody ball!!"
Gold member 2023
gangrenous wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:19 pm
Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
I think CNK’s absence is a factor. But I wish that was our only issue.
gangrenous wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:19 pm
Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
I'm happy to admit that CNK's absence would make a difference and weaken us. No question - if you replace a spine player with his sub, chances are you aren't going to strengthen.
Don't **** kid me or anyone else here - the agenda being run is that you're clearly trying to make out like absolutely none of this would be happening if CNK was here. As if he'd be stopping all of this. He wouldn't. It's debateable whether or not we win with him or not tonight. It's a game of margins, so we probably would. Against the Panthers and Eels, no chance. They're the two I care about, because they're the test and that's the bigger picture here when you're aiming to contend.
If we can't win against the Cowboys, a firm bottom half of the ladder team at this stage, simply because we don't have CNK, then we've got a hell of a lot deeper problems that that.
Last edited by afgtnk on April 24, 2021, 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gangrenous wrote:Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
It’s bizarre. He’s gone from running this whole CNK is a poor ball player agenda (which I don’t disagree with) to somehow morphing it into we don’t miss the guy in defence and you’re stupid for suggesting it.
It’s utterly ridiculous. I mean, you could easily support one opinion while still conceding the other but he’s genuinely gone full **** on it and it’s almost at embarrassing levels now.
Last edited by The Nickman on April 24, 2021, 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cat wrote:Things just aren't going our way at the moment.
Very little luck, a few dodgy calls and a team that's going through a difficult trot.
I have faith we will be ok
On a side note great to see so many raiders fans in Townsville! Shame Nickman snobbed me off!
What?? Where?? When??
Traffic lights near the bridge- i was the raiders lady in raiders active tights and singlet ( not my best look but i was exercising and my other clothes are still wet from the down pour friday)
I even smiled at you
Then you were having a drink as i walked back to the rydges
And i could see you at the game but I was behind the goal posts - lime green poncho at one point
gangrenous wrote:Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
It’s bizarre. He’s gone from running this whole CNK is a poor ball player agenda (which I don’t disagree with) to somehow morphing it into we don’t miss the guy in defence and you’re stupid for suggesting it.
It’s utterly ridiculous. I mean, you could easily support one opinion while still conceding the otherC but he’s genuinely gone full **** on it and it’s almost at embarrassing levels now.
Probably should give up when you're behind, dude. Trying to misrepresent and mischaracterise as a tactic to make someone look nuts may work on some newb, but it's not gonna work here.
This team isn't good enough with CNK or without. That's what you're in denial about here.
Last edited by afgtnk on April 24, 2021, 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I love Jarrod Crocker as a player... but who would sign him till the end of 24 on the deal he is on??? We will not win the comp with him and some othe plodders in this team for a long time without some injection of some speed out wide
exrefhollywood wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:32 pm
I love Jarrod Crocker as a player... but who would sign him till the end of 24 on the deal he is on??? We will not win the comp with him and some othe plodders in this team for a long time without some injection of some speed out wide
gangrenous wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:19 pm
Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
I think CNK’s absence is a factor. But I wish that was our only issue.
It can be traced back to when Whitehead declared we had the best forward pack in the comp. Believing their own hype - since then we have been dominated
Green Taipan wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:26 pm
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clean house!
It's a simple game; tackle, back-up, pass, hold the ball! What did I say? "Hold the bloody ball!!"
Gold member 2023
Green Taipan wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:26 pm
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clear house!
Green Taipan, sadly it doesn’t work like that. We have contracted players and they count to the salary cap unless they agree to leave early or go to another club.
The coach is a different matter, you can pay out a coach and get another, but I am not convinced Ricky is the issue.
Green Taipan wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:26 pm
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clear house!
Green Taipan, sadly it doesn’t work like that. We have contracted players and they count to the salary cap unless they agree to leave early or go to another club.
The coach is a different matter, you can pay out a coach and get another, but I am not convinced Ricky is the issue.
Your spot on Taipan. We don't have the quality of players to adapt to the new game. Coach is responsible for that, so he shouldn't be part of a re-build which seems inevitable now
Looks to be an unhappy unit at the moment. Not sure where to from here.
We should be a lot better than we are given our forward pack and spine.
Our outside backs are just terrible however.
Croker is just not up to first grade standard now. I’ve loved him but you won’t find a more ineffectual centre in the game at the moment.
Curtis Scott looks to be a dud signing. Kris ain’t a winger. Simonsson is no loss. Rapa is rapa.
There’s been a bit of talk about us not evolving. I can’t remember who said it, but I’m sure the mantra was something along the lines of you need to change the message, change who’s delivering it, or change who it’s being delivered to, to remain fresh and competitive. If we aren’t changing the head coach any time soon, we either need new assistants or some new players, or both. Trying to do the same thing with the same people across multiple seasons doesn’t cut it. This year is shaping up as a worse version of 2017/2018 as a result
Green Taipan wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:26 pm
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clear house!
Green Taipan, sadly it doesn’t work like that. We have contracted players and they count to the salary cap unless they agree to leave early or go to another club.
The coach is a different matter, you can pay out a coach and get another, but I am not convinced Ricky is the issue.
Risky is definitely the issue. Just look at how the top 6 sides ply their trade to see the difference. He is a dinosaur!
It's a simple game; tackle, back-up, pass, hold the ball! What did I say? "Hold the bloody ball!!"
Gold member 2023
Green Taipan wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:26 pm
I'm stuck in lock-down in Perth so maybe I'm a little jaundiced about the boys performance tonight. But after an hour or so of fair dinkum reflection it is abundantly clear that we are gone for 2021! The Board has to take ownership and action to right the ship. The fossils have to be discarded. They include the coach, Croker and a number of other players that the coach has recruited! We are light years off the pace this year and while I know the Club values it's favourite sons it also embraces mediocrity! Time to clear house!
Green Taipan, sadly it doesn’t work like that. We have contracted players and they count to the salary cap unless they agree to leave early or go to another club.
The coach is a different matter, you can pay out a coach and get another, but I am not convinced Ricky is the issue.
Risky is definitely the issue. Just look at how the top 6 sides ply their trade to see the difference. He is a dinosaur!
Totally. But he is also recruits well and got us to three prelims in seven seasons. That’s probably as good as can hope for until we can somehow jag a premiership through chance.
rayden83 wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:57 pm
Ricky is the problem but he is also the solution.
Exactly right.
Perhaps the damage has already be done in terms of what was needed to advance this season. We aren't better than the team we were in the past two seasons it seems, and I put that down overall to not having evolved enough.
The ball is firmly in his court to now rectify it for the next one.
I think this is all because we truly lack creativity in attack.
I have faith that we have the culture and roster to turn things around. I'm glad the players are treating this loss seriously. 5 years ago it would have been normal to lose like we did tonight.
I do think its time for some hard decisions to be made and to think about youth.
One thing is for sure.. we aint gonna win the premiership. We will be lucky to turn things around and be in the top 8 this season. And even if we manage the top 8 we wont be seriously contending the premiership.
Our attack is woeful. I have been thinking this since round one even though we somehow won the first few games... relying on jack running the ball and our forwards barging to score works sometimes but we dont have plan c d and e. Plan a and b is going to be easy enough to read.
Anyway... the challenge is there.. lets see what happens.
gangrenous wrote: ↑April 24, 2021, 11:19 pm
Yet again. I’m not running a narrow agenda. I don’t know how many times I have to say there are certainly other problems going on with this Raiders team.
I’m just intolerant of your bizarre angle that somehow missing a player of CNK’s caliber is a non-factor.
I'm happy to admit that CNK's absence would make a difference and weaken us. No question - if you replace a spine player with his sub, chances are you aren't going to strengthen.
Don't **** kid me or anyone else here - the agenda being run is that you're clearly trying to make out like absolutely none of this would be happening if CNK was here. As if he'd be stopping all of this. He wouldn't. It's debateable whether or not we win with him or not tonight. It's a game of margins, so we probably would. Against the Panthers and Eels, no chance. They're the two I care about, because they're the test and that's the bigger picture here when you're aiming to contend.
If we can't win against the Cowboys, a firm bottom half of the ladder team at this stage, simply because we don't have CNK, then we've got a hell of a lot deeper problems that that.
CNK is an effort player and attitude is a large part of defence. He's not the difference but you could also never accuse him of not having a dig. He's played until he's cramped up more than once and his defence has improved noticeably. He knows he has to be able to cover the corners(especially the left side) when defending our own line-we saw it v Roosters last season where he saved two tries on either Morris twin. We've seen it this season. Whereas once he was late getting across in cover, now he's there in time.
