Coaching issues
Moderator: GH Moderators
- Kryptonite
- John Ferguson
- Posts: 2483
- Joined: June 4, 2012, 8:27 am
- Favourite Player: Terry Reagan
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Coaching issues
A) RS has not developed a roster or game plan to suit the game post
B) We have no X factor in the outside backs ie BJ and Cotric
C) John Bateman
D) I honestly believe there is a division within the ranks EDIT that RS has either unable to contain or allowed to fester
B) We have no X factor in the outside backs ie BJ and Cotric
C) John Bateman
D) I honestly believe there is a division within the ranks EDIT that RS has either unable to contain or allowed to fester
Re: Coaching issues
Some interesting stats from us:
14th in offloads
15th in general play passes
13th highest completions
5th most errors
11th most run metres
4th in run metres conceded
13th in kick return metres
Equal 14th in forced dropouts
2nd most penalties awarded
Stats aren't everything of course..... but it paints some kind of picture that Sticky's method is not really working at present.
14th in offloads
15th in general play passes
13th highest completions
5th most errors
11th most run metres
4th in run metres conceded
13th in kick return metres
Equal 14th in forced dropouts
2nd most penalties awarded
Stats aren't everything of course..... but it paints some kind of picture that Sticky's method is not really working at present.
- Northern Raider
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 32520
- Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
- Favourite Player: Dean Lance
- Location: Greener pastures
Re: Coaching issues
That first one concerns me most. Our best attack in recent years has come from 2nd phase play. Our halves in particular thrive on it. To be near last in offloads is neutering our most effective method of attack.afgtnk wrote: ↑April 28, 2021, 7:18 pm Some interesting stats from us:
14th in offloads
15th in general play passes
13th highest completions
5th most errors
11th most run metres
4th in run metres conceded
13th in kick return metres
Equal 14th in forced dropouts
2nd most penalties awarded
Stats aren't everything of course..... but it paints some kind of picture that Sticky's method is not really working at present.
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
- GreenMachine
- Jason Croker
- Posts: 4264
- Joined: April 13, 2005, 2:22 pm
- Favourite Player: Laurie Daley
Re: Coaching issues
The stats confirm we have been poor all season, which is what I’ve been arguing just based on the ‘eye test’...afgtnk wrote: ↑April 28, 2021, 7:18 pm Some interesting stats from us:
14th in offloads
15th in general play passes
13th highest completions
5th most errors
11th most run metres
4th in run metres conceded
13th in kick return metres
Equal 14th in forced dropouts
2nd most penalties awarded
Stats aren't everything of course..... but it paints some kind of picture that Sticky's method is not really working at present.
- Seiffert82
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 27845
- Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
- Favourite Player: Bay56
Re: Coaching issues
CNK is the biggest problem in our attack didn't you know.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 27, 2021, 6:25 pmIt really, really is... but it’s a genuine taboo topic in these parts.Seiffert82 wrote:I'd be quite happy with that.kiwi raider wrote: ↑April 27, 2021, 2:11 pm about our only real option to improve this is pick Valemi and ride the few extra errors he's going to make, Perhaps a centre pairing of Kris and Timoko might help also
1. CNK
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. Timoko
5. Valemi
Spewing that CNK is injured. I think that's a much bigger impact for us than losing Hodgson last season. Can't be bothered justifying why.
It’s quite strange.
- Seiffert82
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 27845
- Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
- Favourite Player: Bay56
Re: Coaching issues
Against Parramatta the coaching instructions seemed to be for our middles to run lines 2 defenders wide of the ruck. Hodgo was nailing the passes, but playing with the extra width added risk and time before the hitup was made. Parra adjusted quickly and we never gained any momentum through the middle of the ruck.Ultima wrote: ↑April 28, 2021, 11:27 am Seems that Ben Ikin agrees we are over coached and too structured. Been saying for years Stuart tries to stick to a game plan and structure everything too much. He is a micro manager who just can't let go a little bit and it's hurting the natural brilliance of a lot of our players who are just trying to do what he wants. The same thing happens with all the players under him through-out his history, they start out OK, get great, then he tries to micro manage it all too much and they go down hill...
Good teams keep things simple. Cameron Smith kept things simple, and executed to perfection.
We are theoretically the strongest team in the comp in the middle. Not ONCE have we exploited that advantage for 80 minutes.
Why the hell are we over complicating things? Power through the middle, and let our running halves exploit second phase play. We are not great at running block plays or shifting the ball early. We are not fast, nor are we a great passing side. Haven't been for 5 years.
- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 16584
- Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm
Re: Coaching issues
Because if you don’t use width then they load up the middle and smash you knowing you’re not using 2/3 of the field.
Re: Coaching issues
The numbers behind Raiders' second-half woes
It's no secret the Green Machine has been falling away in second halves this year but the statistics have revealed just how stark the numbers are.
"I've identified areas of the matches we've played in where it's got away from us," Ricky Stuart said this week. "It's not a fatigue thing. Sometimes games don't go your way. A couple of the games we were beaten by a couple of better teams. A few games – the Warriors, the Cowboys – the flow of the game was completely different to the first half. We've identified a lot of areas in those second halves why we've fallen away."
However Stuart he isn't letting on what the focus will be; pressed on whether he could reveal the areas that need adjusting are he said: "No, I don't want to."
Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/04/28/sta ... half-woes/
NRL.com article tackling the issues we have between first and second half performances... I'm not buying the 'it's not a fatigue' thing , Stick. It reeks of it.
It's no secret the Green Machine has been falling away in second halves this year but the statistics have revealed just how stark the numbers are.
"I've identified areas of the matches we've played in where it's got away from us," Ricky Stuart said this week. "It's not a fatigue thing. Sometimes games don't go your way. A couple of the games we were beaten by a couple of better teams. A few games – the Warriors, the Cowboys – the flow of the game was completely different to the first half. We've identified a lot of areas in those second halves why we've fallen away."
However Stuart he isn't letting on what the focus will be; pressed on whether he could reveal the areas that need adjusting are he said: "No, I don't want to."
Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/04/28/sta ... half-woes/
NRL.com article tackling the issues we have between first and second half performances... I'm not buying the 'it's not a fatigue' thing , Stick. It reeks of it.
-
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51011
- Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
- Favourite Player: Hodgo
- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: Coaching issues
Stick solid, Rick. That’s all you need to do... stick solid.
Re: Coaching issues
Stick solid... and Bleed Green!The Nickman wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 5:43 am Stick solid, Rick. That’s all you need to do... stick solid.
- Ultima
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 12348
- Joined: January 18, 2005, 9:46 pm
- Favourite Player: Croker
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Coaching issues
Yeah I'm flabbergasted that he thinks fatigue isn't a factor... What else would be? No orange slices at half time? It's got to be either fatigue or just a complete breakdown between the players and coach and hence his speeches at half time are just making it worse.
-
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51011
- Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
- Favourite Player: Hodgo
- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: Coaching issues
Maybe they're not sticking solid enough?Ultima wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:24 am Yeah I'm flabbergasted that he thinks fatigue isn't a factor... What else would be? No orange slices at half time? It's got to be either fatigue or just a complete breakdown between the players and coach and hence his speeches at half time are just making it worse.
-
- John Ferguson
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: March 31, 2018, 9:30 pm
Re: Coaching issues
Sticky see’s the game differently to anyone else, don’t you know that?The Nickman wrote:Maybe they're not sticking solid enough?Ultima wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:24 am Yeah I'm flabbergasted that he thinks fatigue isn't a factor... What else would be? No orange slices at half time? It's got to be either fatigue or just a complete breakdown between the players and coach and hence his speeches at half time are just making it worse.
Sent from my iPhone using The Greenhouse
Re: Coaching issues
Let’s be blunt. To admit fatigue is a factor would call the use of the bench into question. But the selection and use of the bench has been part of the problem.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51011
- Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
- Favourite Player: Hodgo
- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: Coaching issues
A HUGE part of the problem. Much harder to stick solid when the bench use is horrendous.
- Ultima
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 12348
- Joined: January 18, 2005, 9:46 pm
- Favourite Player: Croker
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Coaching issues
No backs on the bench, needed them again, his half time speeches seem to suck out whatever energy we had left... Actually used the bench OK in the first half, then used TWO in the first TEN minutes of the second half...
- Northern Raider
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 32520
- Joined: June 19, 2007, 8:17 am
- Favourite Player: Dean Lance
- Location: Greener pastures
Re: Coaching issues
Souths written the book on milking penalties tonight
* The author assumes no responsibility for the topicality, correctness, completeness or quality of information provided.
- Ultima
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 12348
- Joined: January 18, 2005, 9:46 pm
- Favourite Player: Croker
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Coaching issues
Kind of irrelevant but yeah, that's part of coaching too. I think Croker is the only one out there who consistently can pull penalties so it's obviously not something we train for like most other clubs do.Northern Raider wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 9:44 pm Souths written the book on milking penalties tonight
Just FYI, there is no prize for being the most "honest" side in the league.
Re: Coaching issues
Our half back goes down and Ricky’s big bright idea is to replace him with a second rower. I love Whitehead but this was reminiscent of Tongue playing half back, I thought those days were behind us?
Sadly I thought this loss had Ricky’s fingerprints all over it. All grit and anger in the first half but once the meat pies and red bulls wore off we were a shell of an NRL side. We actually looked half decent when we threw it wide to the backs but I’m pretty sure Ricky’s tactics were to bash it through the middle and wait for Souths to make an error. That might work against the Bulldogs but not the class sides.
I know people will blame injuries but I will note that when other teams lose key personnel they rise to the occasion whereas Canberra just seem to fall into a tailspin, and I put that down to bad coaching and bad tactics.
For next week Ricky just needs to get back to basics. Have contingency plans in place so we can play halves who are actually halves and don’t leave the best prop in the world to “rest” when you’re desperate for a win.
Sadly I thought this loss had Ricky’s fingerprints all over it. All grit and anger in the first half but once the meat pies and red bulls wore off we were a shell of an NRL side. We actually looked half decent when we threw it wide to the backs but I’m pretty sure Ricky’s tactics were to bash it through the middle and wait for Souths to make an error. That might work against the Bulldogs but not the class sides.
I know people will blame injuries but I will note that when other teams lose key personnel they rise to the occasion whereas Canberra just seem to fall into a tailspin, and I put that down to bad coaching and bad tactics.
For next week Ricky just needs to get back to basics. Have contingency plans in place so we can play halves who are actually halves and don’t leave the best prop in the world to “rest” when you’re desperate for a win.
- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 16584
- Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm
Re: Coaching issues
Bizarrely Raiders seem to play for penalties by just dropping it cold in the ruck. It doesn’t work.
Re: Coaching issues
Strange rant and tellingrayden83 wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:03 pm Our half back goes down and Ricky’s big bright idea is to replace him with a second rower. I love Whitehead but this was reminiscent of Tongue playing half back, I thought those days were behind us?
Sadly I thought this loss had Ricky’s fingerprints all over it. All grit and anger in the first half but once the meat pies and red bulls wore off we were a shell of an NRL side. We actually looked half decent when we threw it wide to the backs but I’m pretty sure Ricky’s tactics were to bash it through the middle and wait for Souths to make an error. That might work against the Bulldogs but not the class sides.
I know people will blame injuries but I will note that when other teams lose key personnel they rise to the occasion whereas Canberra just seem to fall into a tailspin, and I put that down to bad coaching and bad tactics.
For next week Ricky just needs to get back to basics. Have contingency plans in place so we can play halves who are actually halves and don’t leave the best prop in the world to “rest” when you’re desperate for a win.
Whitehead to the halves and Young to the edge was 100% the best option available to us.
And Whitehead aquited himself rather well.
What would you have done with that 17 men and no Williams?
Re: Coaching issues
I believe at that point in the game the only option he had was to bring in Soliola. Whitehead to the halves was the best option from thererayden83 wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:03 pm Our half back goes down and Ricky’s big bright idea is to replace him with a second rower. I love Whitehead but this was reminiscent of Tongue playing half back, I thought those days were behind us?
Sadly I thought this loss had Ricky’s fingerprints all over it. All grit and anger in the first half but once the meat pies and red bulls wore off we were a shell of an NRL side. We actually looked half decent when we threw it wide to the backs but I’m pretty sure Ricky’s tactics were to bash it through the middle and wait for Souths to make an error. That might work against the Bulldogs but not the class sides.
I know people will blame injuries but I will note that when other teams lose key personnel they rise to the occasion whereas Canberra just seem to fall into a tailspin, and I put that down to bad coaching and bad tactics.
For next week Ricky just needs to get back to basics. Have contingency plans in place so we can play halves who are actually halves and don’t leave the best prop in the world to “rest” when you’re desperate for a win.
Why he didn't keep the half named to cover (Frawley this game) for emergency like this I don't know as we seem to have done so regularly until the last minute in recent times. Not sure of the exact rules but if he's cut him when he could've kept him then he's made an awful error.
Last edited by afgtnk on April 29, 2021, 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Coaching issues
It worked for Benjigangrenous wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:04 pm Bizarrely Raiders seem to play for penalties by just dropping it cold in the ruck. It doesn’t work.
- Mickey_Raider
- Jason Croker
- Posts: 4337
- Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
- Favourite Player: Big Papa
- Location: North Sydney
Re: Coaching issues
We have lost 6 of our last 7 second halves.
And most of them have been pretty comprehensive second half steamrollings
That is not a coincidence.
Ricky and the conditioning staff have questions to answer for sure.
And most of them have been pretty comprehensive second half steamrollings
That is not a coincidence.
Ricky and the conditioning staff have questions to answer for sure.
Up The Milk
- Canberra Milk
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 15203
- Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
- Favourite Player: Leipana
Re: Coaching issues
Yep Ricky still tries to "get into the grind". It doesn't work anymore. Momentum is very hard to get back once you've lost it. If you just play simple up the guts, momentum will just stay with the other team unless yes, they drop the ball or give a penalty etc
Re: Coaching issues
Frawley. He was purchased, presumably, for this type of situation. Given the choice between a second rower playing wildly out of position and a natural half/five eighth who understands the nuances of the position; spacing, control, structure, kicking, positioning, vision, etc, I’d take the latter guy every day of the week. He might not set the world alight but the halves are such specialised positions that they require specialists to fill the roles not blow ins from your forward pack.Botman wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:06 pmStrange rant and tellingrayden83 wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 10:03 pm Our half back goes down and Ricky’s big bright idea is to replace him with a second rower. I love Whitehead but this was reminiscent of Tongue playing half back, I thought those days were behind us?
Sadly I thought this loss had Ricky’s fingerprints all over it. All grit and anger in the first half but once the meat pies and red bulls wore off we were a shell of an NRL side. We actually looked half decent when we threw it wide to the backs but I’m pretty sure Ricky’s tactics were to bash it through the middle and wait for Souths to make an error. That might work against the Bulldogs but not the class sides.
I know people will blame injuries but I will note that when other teams lose key personnel they rise to the occasion whereas Canberra just seem to fall into a tailspin, and I put that down to bad coaching and bad tactics.
For next week Ricky just needs to get back to basics. Have contingency plans in place so we can play halves who are actually halves and don’t leave the best prop in the world to “rest” when you’re desperate for a win.
Whitehead to the halves and Young to the edge was 100% the best option available to us.
And Whitehead aquited himself rather well.
What would you have done with that 17 men and no Williams?
Whitehead has good skills for a big man but in a team format against the good teams it just doesn’t work.
Re: Coaching issues
That isnt acceptable coaching, if one of your halves drops and your solution is to parachute a forward into the role. Most teams have someone who can naturally fill the role in the event of injury, usually the fullback or a utility player on the bench. Look at the team lists across the NRL for this week, most have at least three players who can naturally play in the halves. Not saying Frawley is great or anything but at least a natural half, even if they are individually inept, eg Sezer, at least gives the right shape to an attack.
- Canberra Milk
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 15203
- Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
- Favourite Player: Leipana
Re: Coaching issues
I would literally prefer Whitehead at half to Frawley
Re: Coaching issues
Why do we wait till 16 points behind before starting to offload and take a few risks? This bs grinding / completions tactic is meaningless in the current game. Bench rotation sucks. Half-time speech clearly sucks. Fitness sucks. Game plan sucks. Attitude sucks.
Commentators waxing lyrically about the Bunnies left side attack. It was about 6 on 3 for a few of them. So clearly numbering up sucks.
Commentators waxing lyrically about the Bunnies left side attack. It was about 6 on 3 for a few of them. So clearly numbering up sucks.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
- Canberra Milk
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 15203
- Joined: January 6, 2005, 8:44 pm
- Favourite Player: Leipana
Re: Coaching issues
Yes and we always look better once we loosen the shackles. I've said it since last year. Then we get ahead, and we put the cue back in the rack and try to get into the grind. So so frustratinggergreg wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 11:36 pm Why do we wait till 16 points behind before starting to offload and take a few risks? This bs grinding / completions tactic is meaningless in the current game. Bench rotation sucks. Half-time speech clearly sucks. Fitness sucks. Game plan sucks. Attitude sucks.
Commentators waxing lyrically about the Bunnies left side attack. It was about 6 on 3 for a few of them. So clearly numbering up sucks.
I couldn't stand that gushing over Souths attack. It was just crap defence for the most part
Re: Coaching issues
This is ridiculous. Why have Frawley in the 30 man squad if not for this specific scenario.Canberra Milk wrote: ↑April 29, 2021, 11:13 pm I would literally prefer Whitehead at half to Frawley
Btw - I believe Frawley to be good enough to play a second fiddle half role for a season if that’s what we need him to do
Coaching issues
Rick isn’t long for this game unless he EDIT and gets with the 2021 programme. Even nepotism-central at Raiders HQ must be looking at these performances and be asking themselves whether Rick is up to the job???
- Seiffert82
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 27845
- Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
- Favourite Player: Bay56
Re: Coaching issues
Using width is one thing. Doing it every single play is something else entirely.gangrenous wrote: ↑April 28, 2021, 9:49 pm Because if you don’t use width then they load up the middle and smash you knowing you’re not using 2/3 of the field.
- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
- Posts: 16584
- Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm
Re: Coaching issues
No one is saying to do it every single play. But there was a lengthy period in that second half where we did NONE. Doing hit ups every single play is equally daft.Seiffert82 wrote:Using width is one thing. Doing it every single play is something else entirely.gangrenous wrote: ↑April 28, 2021, 9:49 pm Because if you don’t use width then they load up the middle and smash you knowing you’re not using 2/3 of the field.
-
- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51011
- Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
- Favourite Player: Hodgo
- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: Coaching issues
I really enjoyed the last 20 though where we were going wide down BOTH edges, we looked really dangerous.
Be nice if the team would stick solid with those tactics against the knights. Not sure if Williams is capable of feeding the right like Elliott did last night.
Be nice if the team would stick solid with those tactics against the knights. Not sure if Williams is capable of feeding the right like Elliott did last night.