Coaching issues

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GreenMachine
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2021, 8:37 am
GreenMachine wrote: But que the knuckleheads who think missing CNK is the reason. Bless their cotton socks...
Cue

Yours sincerely,
Forum Knucklehead
Resigned to spell checking and grammar...surely you have more in the kit bag?
Should I place a bet on CNK for the Dally M? Given he’s about to change our season?
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gangrenous
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Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

Oh I’m not resigned to it. It’s an enjoyable pastime after I’ve already pointed out the clear flaws in your argument. But you keep ignoring those and repeating the same stuff so I thought I’d mix it up.
Last edited by gangrenous on April 25, 2021, 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by greeneyed »

The issue is Aekins made his metres last night from 25 runs. They’re not dangerous runs. It’s the same with CNK. Last night Holmes made 16 runs and made 188 metres.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Mickey_Raider »

As someone previously pointed out, it is not fanciful to think Ricky can at some point turn things around, as he did in 2019 after the 2017/18 debacle.

The problem is that the past suggests that because of his stubbornness, his coaching pivots have the turning circle of the Evergreen in the Suez canal.

Also there is concerning evidence to suggest that he does not know how to multitask. He may fix our stuttering attack but it may come at the cost of our defence as can be inversely demonstrated in 2019.
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GreenMachine
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2021, 11:16 am Oh I’m not resigned to it. It’s an enjoyable pastime after I’ve already pointed out the clear flaws in your argument. But you keep ignoring those and repeating the same stuff so I thought I’d mix it up.
Do enlighten me please?
I think you’ll find we’re not arguing differently.
I’ll summarise my view so you don’t get me mixed up with others around here:

We’ve been poor all season with and without CNK.
I’d keep CNK as left centre or at fullback if we can’t upgrade.
I recognise his strengths and weaknesses...hard runner, big body, great defender.
Very poor as a modern game wide ball player.
That’s it basically.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

Stubbornness is basically his entire coaching style. I'm assuming that's why our bench utilisation never seems to reflect the game the rest of us are watching... He made a plan at the start of the week when he picked the team, and that's the plan, it doesn't change, obviously he isn't a big believer in "no plan survives contact with the enemy".

We need more coaching staff too, I feel he is trying to do too much, so hence is doing everything poorly. If he could just focus on player contentment, which seems to be super high in general, and let others focus on attack plans that would be great.
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gangrenous
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2021, 11:16 am We’ve been poor all season with and VERY poor without CNK losing games we would otherwise still have won.
I’d keep CNK as left centre or at fullback if we can’t upgrade.
I recognise his strengths and weaknesses...hard runner, big body, great defender.
Very poor as a modern game wide ball player.
That’s it basically.
Top point is our only difference, and I dislike the inference that people who express disappointment or talk to the impact of his absence are getting repeatedly characterised as thinking that’s all that’s wrong. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person say that.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by afgtnk »

Do you really need to pollute every **** thread with this agenda of yours?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2021, 12:15 pm
gangrenous wrote: April 25, 2021, 11:16 am We’ve been poor all season with and VERY poor without CNK losing games we would otherwise still have won.
I’d keep CNK as left centre or at fullback if we can’t upgrade.
I recognise his strengths and weaknesses...hard runner, big body, great defender.
Very poor as a modern game wide ball player.
That’s it basically.
Top point is our only difference, and I dislike the inference that people who express disappointment or talk to the impact of his absence are getting repeatedly characterised as thinking that’s all that’s wrong. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person say that.
I think the reason people make that characterisation is due to the regularity of that argument. It overlooks what some of us see as flaws in his game maybe being too dismissive of people who don’t think those flaws are critical.

Anyway, fair enough. I have no dog in this hunt aside from wanting us to win a title.
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gangrenous
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

afgtnk wrote:Do you really need to pollute every **** thread with this agenda of yours?
Can we check the tape on which side of the argument kicked it off again?

I corrected grammar only in my initial response and then responded to a direct question.

In summary. You’re wrong again and it’s getting to be a pattern.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Rickmando »

No doubt the Super Coach will have us bleeding extra green through the week and we will beat the bunnies in an arm-wrestle boilover. It’ll paper over the cracks and Rick will have another opportunity to “shove it in our faces”.

What I will say is this - Hope is not a strategy
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gerg »

afgtnk wrote:Do you really need to pollute every **** thread with this agenda of yours?
Seems to be a common theme on this forum. Historically we've had posters that pollute every single thread with negative comments relating to Sezer and Croker and CNK.

Not mentioning any (posters) names.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seamonkey »

I don't know if this is a coaching issue but am I the only one who notices most of our backs look undersized compared to the top teams in the comp right now.

Outside of Kris there isn't anyone in our backline that genuinely looks like they can run a defending back over and make teams commit more than one defender. CNK does incredibly well with sheer effort and some breaks but Raps, Croker and Scott.....

It's harder to watch when the plan put of our end is to use that backline to carry the ball out. I know there's been a lot of errors but there's no way we can be grinding teams down with ineffective 2m gains with backs getting tackled easily off the mark.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Billy Walker »

Seamonkey wrote: April 27, 2021, 8:22 am I don't know if this is a coaching issue but am I the only one who notices most of our backs look undersized compared to the top teams in the comp right now.

Outside of Kris there isn't anyone in our backline that genuinely looks like they can run a defending back over and make teams commit more than one defender. CNK does incredibly well with sheer effort and some breaks but Raps, Croker and Scott.....

It's harder to watch when the plan put of our end is to use that backline to carry the ball out. I know there's been a lot of errors but there's no way we can be grinding teams down with ineffective 2m gains with backs getting tackled easily off the mark.
Absolutely - and if you don’t have size in those positions you need speed. Small and slow just doesn’t cut it.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by kiwi raider »

Yea we are certainly not starting our sets good enough, if our outside backs were getting us rolling i reckon our whole team would improve considerably including our halves at the end of sets, its a hell of a lot easier to kick off front foot ball and put people in to space, you're on a hiding to nothing doing either when the defence is all over you.

Problem is its hard to see how we really improve considerably on this aspect as i dont think any of our centre/wingers are really that good at rucking it out, Rapana is still clearly our best but he's nowhere near the threat he used to be, Wighton is pretty good at it normally but doesnt seem to be doing any of that sort of work this year.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by dubby »

In the past we've had big bodies like Cotric and Leilua starting our sets well. Rapana was better then too.

Now it's a struggle. Rapa is not the player he was, and Simmo is just not creating the momentum we need.

Croker and Scott are lacking punch as well.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

dubby wrote: April 27, 2021, 1:47 pm In the past we've had big bodies like Cotric and Leilua starting our sets well. Rapana was better then too.

Now it's a struggle. Rapa is not the player he was, and Simmo is just not creating the momentum we need.

Croker and Scott are lacking punch as well.

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

Yep, our out of trouble yardage on kick returns is horrible.
I normally count 3 tackles burned before our backs reach our retreating forwards.
Compare that with Penrith / Roosters / Storm / Souths and Parra.....
It's a sign of low power and speed in the outside backs and unfit forwards.
As the game rolls along and the ball is in play longer, I have no doubt this contributes to our fatigue and very poor second half displays..
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by kiwi raider »

about our only real option to improve this is pick Valemi and ride the few extra errors he's going to make, Perhaps a centre pairing of Kris and Timoko might help also

1. CNK
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. Timoko
5. Valemi
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

kiwi raider wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:11 pm about our only real option to improve this is pick Valemi and ride the few extra errors he's going to make, Perhaps a centre pairing of Kris and Timoko might help also

1. CNK
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. Timoko
5. Valemi
Inexperience and errors aside, this backline gives us the best chance of playing under the new rules, notwithstanding recruitment opportunities...
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by dubby »

I'd rather HSS over Semi

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by kiwi raider »

dubby wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:33 pm I'd rather HSS over Semi

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So would i but he's busted until late in the season isn't he?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

dubby wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:33 pm I'd rather HSS over Semi

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Bold selection... you're not worried about aggravating the injury he's out for the season with?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Dammit, beaten to the punch... ****ITALL!!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by dubby »

Ugh, forgot about that

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

I think he'd almost definitely be playing firsts right now too, if it weren't for injury.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

The Nickman wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:00 pm
dubby wrote: April 27, 2021, 1:47 pm In the past we've had big bodies like Cotric and Leilua starting our sets well. Rapana was better then too.

Now it's a struggle. Rapa is not the player he was, and Simmo is just not creating the momentum we need.

Croker and Scott are lacking punch as well.

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He's right you know.
About starting our sets well?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Botman wrote: April 27, 2021, 3:09 pm
The Nickman wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:00 pm
dubby wrote: April 27, 2021, 1:47 pm In the past we've had big bodies like Cotric and Leilua starting our sets well. Rapana was better then too.

Now it's a struggle. Rapa is not the player he was, and Simmo is just not creating the momentum we need.

Croker and Scott are lacking punch as well.

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He's right you know.
About starting our sets well?
About everything, dammit!!
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

Another week with all forwards on the bench, we don't even have a captain named as all our previous captains are being "rested". I feel Stuart is even losing the player group now, the one thing he use to be good at. Last year should have been a wake up call, yet somehow Stuart's set it up as his blueprint moving forward!

Looking at regular season matches:
We have only scored over 40 points twice since round 26 2017. We have only scored more than 24 points against a top 8 side once in the past three years, and that was against the Broncos in 2019 where they limped into the finals in 8th spot.
Our win rate against top eight teams is 50/50

Our attack is just dead... When was the last time we put a team away? The Roosters and Storm individually have scored over 40 points more times this year than we have in almost four years... The one thing we had going was our defence, and that has fallen over on it's **** too, even earlier this year we were defending our line better than we can now...

No idea what the solution is but we can't keep doing the same **** and expecting different results. We need something to be mixed up and as we can't really do that with our playing roster too much why not start sacking support staff, throwing money at some genuine attacking coaches, have a star 5/8 on Wighton 24/7 training wise, etc.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Seiffert82 »

kiwi raider wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:11 pm about our only real option to improve this is pick Valemi and ride the few extra errors he's going to make, Perhaps a centre pairing of Kris and Timoko might help also

1. CNK
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. Timoko
5. Valemi
I'd be quite happy with that.

Spewing that CNK is injured. I think that's a much bigger impact for us than losing Hodgson last season. Can't be bothered justifying why.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

Seiffert82 wrote:
kiwi raider wrote: April 27, 2021, 2:11 pm about our only real option to improve this is pick Valemi and ride the few extra errors he's going to make, Perhaps a centre pairing of Kris and Timoko might help also

1. CNK
2. Rapana
3. Kris
4. Timoko
5. Valemi
I'd be quite happy with that.

Spewing that CNK is injured. I think that's a much bigger impact for us than losing Hodgson last season. Can't be bothered justifying why.
It really, really is... but it’s a genuine taboo topic in these parts.

It’s quite strange.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by afgtnk »

I agree - we miss [insert player out] badly and need him back to help turn things around.

It's no coincidence that without [insert player out] we're struggling, as [insert player out] is a vital part of our game.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

Seems that Ben Ikin agrees we are over coached and too structured. Been saying for years Stuart tries to stick to a game plan and structure everything too much. He is a micro manager who just can't let go a little bit and it's hurting the natural brilliance of a lot of our players who are just trying to do what he wants. The same thing happens with all the players under him through-out his history, they start out OK, get great, then he tries to micro manage it all too much and they go down hill...
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by dubby »

This year has really revealed the inadequacies of our team.

In the past we've had big success from individual brilliance. Papa, Bateman, Leipana, Wighton, all did freaky things which got us home.

Our attack has generally relied on this brilliance, as our halves have traditionally struggled when close to the opposition's try line.

Hence, some unpredictability and individual flair saved the day.

This year we lack all that. Bateman is gone, Rapa and Crokes are waning, Scott is as strong as a wet paper towel, Simmo is not really impacting, and our depth isn't that great. Thankfully Kris is showing signs of improvement and impact.

Last year our pack made the least ground out of all top 8 sides. They're getting beaten this year too.

I'm not sure who coaches our attack, but they really need to reconsider how they're going about it. We just don't have that strike and skill we used to.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by BadnMean »

We lose the yards battle because we don't have a great kicking game ourselves- we make less yards because we are always coming off our line.

We aren't able to get away from our line when fielding kicks because we don't have any strike coming back at the other team. None of Simo, CNK, Croker, Scott or Rapa is going to skittle someone on those early rucks and get us coming back rolling- which would lead to those easy yards rolling forward. Rapa comes the closest but we all know he's stepping back in behind the ruck and even if he palms a bloke off, he can't go anywhere afterwards now.

Other teams have a Sivo, a Ravalawa, an Olam or someone who can just come on the burst and at worst make the same yards our guys do or at best, make that half bust and play the ball and get on the front foot for the set.

The other missing ingredient is some speed out wide. You can jam up the Raiders because even if we spread we won't make yards anyway because you can slide and catch us straight away. It's a big risk for not much reward play for us, whereas if you have some speed in the back 5 it's a slightly lesser risk for a big reward play. Again, one plays into the other and being able to ignore the wide threat makes it even harder up the middle.

It's a personel issue back there. No speed and not a power player among them either.

So we kick from worse positions after poor sets, don't kick exceptionally well and the feedback loop continues. y

We can cope with losing the territory battle ONLY if we defend like demons for 80 mins and turn every match into a grindfest. CNK suits such a game. But that grind doesn't happen a lot in the new rules. There's too many chances to open a game up with 6 agains and no slowing penalties. And if the game does open up- we only have pop guns to shoot with in the back 5.

I don't think you can outcoach this issue. The game moved. Our squad already had that issue. Poor selection and father time have made it worse. We have the wrong backline squad to win in this era. Our best bet would be to see who of Kris, Semi, Savage, Hoppa etc is worth persisting with in when we regenerate back there and then go to market for the rest.

All the orchestrating in the world from Hodgo won't fix it. Smith had Papenhuyzen, Olam, Addo Car etc to orchestrate with. We do not.
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