Coaching issues

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Canberra Milk
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

So it would reward one of the better attacking and exciting teams of the last 20 years? Sounds good to me
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 11:15 am So it would reward one of the better attacking and exciting teams of the last 20 years? Sounds good to me
I didn't say I hated it....just calling it as I see it...It may get boring if we start seeing more Super Rugby score lines.

While the trend is with attacking sides, we still have wrestling and a messy ruck interpretation...so I do question the purpose of the change.
Last edited by GreenMachine on May 11, 2021, 4:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

Scorer should kick off. I've wanted this for years to arrest momentum gluts, and even more so with the new rules. That will mitigate the score blowouts
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Crash Ball »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 11:49 am Scorer should kick off. I've wanted this for years to arrest momentum gluts, and even more so with the new rules. That will mitigate the score blowouts
Had the opposite effect in Super League.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

You mean the old 1997 super league? I forgot actually. That a long time ago though
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

I don’t really see how it would make an appreciable difference either way
This is not a sport where possessions are limited or able to be strictly controlled

Possession changes every 45-90 seconds
Making the scoring team kick off isn’t imo likely to move the needle greatly in creating close games
And in terms of game scripts, it makes it much harder for a team trailing by 2 scores to come home and win in the final 5-10, they don’t get to take the momentum of the try and immediately parlay it into a good set and push the pedal down

I don’t see any value in that idea at all
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by The Nickman »

I hated it in super league and I hate the idea now... it's a fundamental shift in the game of rugby league that just isn't necessary.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Hong Kong Raider »

I just read Hooper's blog and someone mentioned that on Sportsbet's Transfer Whispers that Tapine is linked with the Roosters for 2022. Does anyone have any information on this ? I hope Tapine stays as he is the type of player we need, had a great year, and this year hasn't set the world on fire but most of his team maters haven't. Stuart has eradicated some inconsistency in his game last year and he is controlling his temper - even being calm when Stephen Crichton was asking for it in that huddle.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

I would be absolutely gutted if Tapine went to Roosters. I would consider sitting out the season, as I threatened to do if Milf went to Broncos (but never did)

Why should I follow a comp if we're just going to be a feeder club for clubs that are already (far) better than us
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Re: Coaching issues

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We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by greeneyed »

The Nickman wrote: May 11, 2021, 3:49 pm I hated it in super league and I hate the idea now... it's a fundamental shift in the game of rugby league that just isn't necessary.
It was introduced in Super League... because the idea was that the game would be sped up so much that we'd be seeing plenty of points and try for try... which adds to the excitement and the closeness of the scores.

Now, I think that's basketball, that's Australian Rules, and that's rubbish.

But it actually fits together with the other rule changes the NRL has introduced.
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Re: Coaching issues

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Teams get repeat sets, either through forced dropouts or set restarts, which often leads to tries. That in turn gets them the ball again, which in turn leads to more set restarts (due to a referee perception of "momentum"), and more fatigue in the other team. It becomes a spiral

The scoring team kicking off would interrupt that cycle
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Re: Coaching issues

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Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 7:45 pm We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

GreenMachine wrote: Yeah they would be killing it...
In an effort to remove wrestling, rather than outlaw wrestling, the NRL has turned the game into glorified Oztag...
Nothing wrong with Oztag!
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Re: Coaching issues

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Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:40 pm
Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 7:45 pm We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
But it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly Wigan
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.

As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by greeneyed »

Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:42 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:40 pm
Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 7:45 pm We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
But it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly Wigan
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.

As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
If the salary cap and the other suite of other NRL policies were producing an even competition, then we'd see a much greater diversity of teams playing finals, Grand Finals and winning premierships.
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Re: Coaching issues

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The lack of diversity reflects the fact there are only 2 clubs who are actually run at a super professional level. RL administration is still largely in the dark ages... and the 3, they've finally figured out they live in the greatest single sporting nursury in the country. There is no single region that produces talent quite like Penrith, they're leaning in and reaping the rewards.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Canberra Milk »

Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:42 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:40 pm
Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 7:45 pm We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
But it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly Wigan
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.

As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
Regardless of my reaction, do you think the NRL has a bit of EPL about it of late? Do you see the Storm/Roosters duopoly being broken any time soon? Ok Panthers have looked promising. But what tends to happen is that some teams have the occasional premiership window, whereas Storm/Roosters are always thereabouts

So we're different from EPL in that respect, because there the smaller teams don't even have premiership windows (although they did have Leicester, so aren't entirely deterministic either). But we've still got a flicker of it

I would say it's the mechanism of players wanting to go to Storm/Roosters, and for less money (self fulfilling prophecy), our incompetence, and our geography. All of the above, not one or the other
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:59 pm
Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:42 pm
Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:40 pm
Botman wrote: May 11, 2021, 7:45 pm We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
But it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly Wigan
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.

As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
Regardless of my reaction, do you think the NRL has a bit of EPL about it of late? Do you see the Storm/Roosters duopoly being broken any time soon? Ok Panthers have looked promising. But what tends to happen is that some teams have the occasional premiership window, whereas Storm/Roosters are always thereabouts

So we're different from EPL in that respect, because there the smaller teams don't even have premiership windows (although they did have Leicester, so aren't entirely deterministic either). But we've still got a flicker of it

I would say it's the mechanism of players wanting to go to Storm/Roosters, and for less money (self fulfilling prophecy), our incompetence, and our geography. All of the above, not one or the other
Do i see the duopoly being broken anytime soon? No.
Why? Because those clubs are operating at a professional level that few other clubs are. Certainly not ours... that's on the clubs. There is nothing stopping this club from doing what the storm have done. Any club can do what those clubs do. They're playing under the same rules... yes there are some natural advantages due to geography, but as the last 3 years have shown, we can put together a team capable of competing and winning a title. We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.

Players are attracted to professionalism and success. Success breeds success. As above, there is nothing that limits us from success.
The roosters spent 30 years in the doldrums, the storm were also rans for long periods of their existence.

Souths went 10000 years without a premiership. Heartland of RL. Brisbane, a powerhouse for so long, now a total rabble.
How does this occur?

Coaching. Roster management. Professionalism.
There is nothing stopping us from excelling in these areas other than ourselves
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by greeneyed »

The Storm have virtually never been also rans... apart from the NRL enforced penalties for their salary cap cheating.
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Re: Coaching issues

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Fair, im looking at their record now and i can see that is true

i also see how i fell into that trap... i didnt quite realise the greatest coach in NRL history has coached them for all by 5 years of their existence. A guy we could have had, but Matt Elliott had a banger powerpoint, so y'know...

The other points stand

Coaching. Roster management. Professionalism.
There is nothing stopping us from excelling in these areas other than ourselves
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by GreenMachine »

gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:42 pm
GreenMachine wrote: Yeah they would be killing it...
In an effort to remove wrestling, rather than outlaw wrestling, the NRL has turned the game into glorified Oztag...
Nothing wrong with Oztag!
I loved Oztag, because I couldn’t tackle.
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Re: Coaching issues

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gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by gangrenous »

You troll
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by bonehead »

Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.

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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

bonehead wrote: May 12, 2021, 8:29 am
Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.

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Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.

There is nothing external stopping the Raiders from being a successful football team and winning premierships.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Ultima »

This thread.... moments ago people are saying momentum is such a thing it needs a rule change to fix the game, now people are saying the two massive momentum changers in that game, both which directly lead to tries for the Roosters, didn't make a difference...
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by mongoose »

greeneyed wrote: May 11, 2021, 9:21 pm The Storm have virtually never been also rans... apart from the NRL enforced penalties for their salary cap cheating.
They missed the finals for 2 seasons 2001/02. I think Michael Murray was the coach?
Bellamy came in 2003, they beat us 3/3 that year including week 1 of finals. They've made finals every season since with the exception of 2010 when they were docked all their competition points.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

mongoose wrote:
greeneyed wrote: May 11, 2021, 9:21 pm The Storm have virtually never been also rans... apart from the NRL enforced penalties for their salary cap cheating.
They missed the finals for 2 seasons 2001/02. I think Michael Murray was the coach?
Bellamy came in 2003, they beat us 3/3 that year including week 1 of finals. They've made finals every season since with the exception of 2010 when they were docked all their competition points.
Not sure if you mean Mark Murray, or Chad Michael Murray
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:
bonehead wrote: May 12, 2021, 8:29 am
Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.

There is nothing external stopping the Raiders from being a successful football team and winning premierships.
This. Between not being able to capitalise on them being 10 mins Cronkless, and Leilua’s brain fart at the end, we done messed up A-A-Ron
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Pete Cash »

Canberra Milk wrote: May 11, 2021, 8:37 pm Teams get repeat sets, either through forced dropouts or set restarts, which often leads to tries. That in turn gets them the ball again, which in turn leads to more set restarts (due to a referee perception of "momentum"), and more fatigue in the other team. It becomes a spiral

The scoring team kicking off would interrupt that cycle
I would be very interested to see how Penrith handled that. Right now the strategy is to give teams no respite whatsoever with things like line drop outs. If you get one against them Penrith will take it ASAP.

Imagine that they score and the try scorer just picks up the ball and they run back to half way for the kick off.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by BJ »

Botman wrote:
bonehead wrote: May 12, 2021, 8:29 am
Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.

There is nothing external stopping the Raiders from being a successful football team and winning premierships.
Pigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Botman »

BJ wrote: May 12, 2021, 1:03 pm Pigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.
Jack Wighton took a tackle... hard to score a try on the very play that we took a tackle on :lol:
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Re: Coaching issues

Post by Northern Raider »

BJ wrote: May 12, 2021, 1:03 pm
Botman wrote:
bonehead wrote: May 12, 2021, 8:29 am
Botman wrote:
gangrenous wrote: May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm

Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.

There is nothing external stopping the Raiders from being a successful football team and winning premierships.
Pigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.
We still could have blown it. :lol:

Realistically though its a pointless debate because it's arguing about what would have happened if something happened that didn't happen. What we do know is the opportunity was taken away from the Raiders and given to the Roosters who subsequently scored. The decision may not have altered the outcome but it did influence it.
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