Hong Kong Raider wrote:At this stage, I'd be happy with even Shane Flanagan as an assistant coach - his win rate of 54.5% is better than Ricky's. I don't want Dean Pay back - I recall our defence in 2017 was bad before he left
How about the club - if it wants to "stick" with Sticky - hire a coach to groom them for the job in 2024 - a good assistant (much like what Souths did with Jason Demetrieou). if Ricky doesn't work out in 2022 then there's the option of putting them in charge. I cannot see any of our current assistant coaches being FG coaches.
But for me, this cannot keep going on and even though I don't like him, I'd offer Wayne Bennett the coaching job for 2022 given our predicament.
No club worth its salt, with any hope of establishing a good club culture, hires a coach found to have facilitated drug and salary cap cheating. Seriously.
Hong Kong Raider wrote:At this stage, I'd be happy with even Shane Flanagan as an assistant coach - his win rate of 54.5% is better than Ricky's. I don't want Dean Pay back - I recall our defence in 2017 was bad before he left
How about the club - if it wants to "stick" with Sticky - hire a coach to groom them for the job in 2024 - a good assistant (much like what Souths did with Jason Demetrieou). if Ricky doesn't work out in 2022 then there's the option of putting them in charge. I cannot see any of our current assistant coaches being FG coaches.
But for me, this cannot keep going on and even though I don't like him, I'd offer Wayne Bennett the coaching job for 2022 given our predicament.
No club worth its salt, with any hope of establishing a good club culture, hires a coach found to have facilitated drug and salary cap cheating. Seriously.
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I think you're wrong
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I dunno Boney the culture at our club is pretty awesome.
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Botman wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 7:51 am
Ignoring the salary cap and systematic drug cheating stuff... exactly what is it about Flanagan that is so impressive that we should bring him in?
I can answer for before others jump in. He won a premiership. Of course it's hard to claim that one while simultaneously ignoring the salary cap and peptide issues.
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gergreg wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 8:06 am
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Did I mention he's not from Queanbeyan?
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Recent premiership winning coach sort of loses it's shine given that premiership almost certainly should have been stripped for cheating.
I think his results at Cronulla generally matched the talent level of his club... he goes well when he has a good team and not so well when he doesnt.
Ignoring his history of systemic cheating, i dont think there is any thing in his coaching history to suggest he'd be better that Stuart. And once you do consider his history of systemic cheating there no way he's worth the risk. He's simply not a good enough coach to overcome the other factors imo.
Botman wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 7:51 am
Ignoring the salary cap and systematic drug cheating stuff... exactly what is it about Flanagan that is so impressive that we should bring him in?
I can answer for before others jump in. He won a premiership. Of course it's hard to claim that one while simultaneously ignoring the salary cap and peptide issues.
gergreg wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 8:06 am
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Did I mention he's not from Queanbeyan?
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Recent premiership winning coach sort of loses it's shine given that premiership almost certainly should have been stripped for cheating.
I think his results at Cronulla generally matched the talent level of his club... he goes well when he has a good team and not so well when he doesnt.
Ignoring his history of systemic cheating, i dont think there is any thing in his coaching history to suggest he'd be better that Stuart. And once you do consider his history of systemic cheating there no way he's worth the risk. He's simply not a good enough coach to overcome the other factors imo.
Didn't you read the report? They were over the cap in 2015 and 2017 but were OK in 2016.
As far as coaching style goes you're right. He's probably more like Ricky than Ricky is. Grind, wrestle, spoil. Stay in the contest as long as possible and wait for an opportunistic try to grab the win. In 2016 he had guys like Maloney and Ennis to control (or slow) the game tempo and Barba or Fifita to pull off the big play.
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Northern Raider wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 10:43 am
Didn't you read the report? They were over the cap in 2015 and 2017 but were OK in 2016.
They really threaded the needle on that one didn't they?
Wasn't the quote out of the investigation that "they were under the salary cap on Grand Final day"? Implication being they were over through the season but moved some money around to be clear on Grand Final day if investigated.
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
gergreg wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 8:06 am
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Did I mention he's not from Queanbeyan?
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Recent premiership winning coach sort of loses it's shine given that premiership almost certainly should have been stripped for cheating.
I think his results at Cronulla generally matched the talent level of his club... he goes well when he has a good team and not so well when he doesnt.
Ignoring his history of systemic cheating, i dont think there is any thing in his coaching history to suggest he'd be better that Stuart. And once you do consider his history of systemic cheating there no way he's worth the risk. He's simply not a good enough coach to overcome the other factors imo.
Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't go for a coach guilty of systemic salary cap cheating, we should target someone like Bellamy instead.
gergreg wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 8:06 am
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Did I mention he's not from Queanbeyan?
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Recent premiership winning coach sort of loses it's shine given that premiership almost certainly should have been stripped for cheating.
I think his results at Cronulla generally matched the talent level of his club... he goes well when he has a good team and not so well when he doesnt.
Ignoring his history of systemic cheating, i dont think there is any thing in his coaching history to suggest he'd be better that Stuart. And once you do consider his history of systemic cheating there no way he's worth the risk. He's simply not a good enough coach to overcome the other factors imo.
Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't go for a coach guilty of systemic salary cap cheating, we should target someone like Bellamy instead.
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As per my last line... Flanagan isnt good enough to overcome those factors.
Bellemy? Yeah, he's good enough
hrundi89 wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 2:34 pm
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
We all know integrity and American sport have an arms length relationship.
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This conversation is pointless. Ricky is going nowhere. If we have another trainwreck in 22 he could be in trouble but even then I suspect there would be a further player cleanout and he'd be given another chance to rebuild. Not saying that is what should happen, I'm just a realist
hrundi89 wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 2:34 pm
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
We all know integrity and American sport have an arms length relationship.
I'm not sure I agree with you there.
The rules as they stand allow it. My suggestion would be to cap it to 5-10% of the full cap.
There is a scenario where yes there are injured players who go on LTIR and who happen to get better at the right time of year, so there needs to be an allowance.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
gergreg wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 8:06 am
Not from Queanbeyan. Recent premiership winning coach. Something different. He had a pretty ordinary Sharks team in the finals every year. Ricky doesn't have a game plan, structure or style... not sure that Flanagan has evolved either tbh. Seemed to be a good man manager and motivator. Potentially the best option available - outside of Bellamy. We are a risk averse club so we wouldn't hire him for the reasons that you and GE raise... but that same mentality is why we only employ old boys, why we wouldn't take a punt on say the Walker bros. Why we wouldn't even go after Bellamy because of his close relationship to Ricky.
Did I mention he's not from Queanbeyan?
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Recent premiership winning coach sort of loses it's shine given that premiership almost certainly should have been stripped for cheating.
I think his results at Cronulla generally matched the talent level of his club... he goes well when he has a good team and not so well when he doesnt.
Ignoring his history of systemic cheating, i dont think there is any thing in his coaching history to suggest he'd be better that Stuart. And once you do consider his history of systemic cheating there no way he's worth the risk. He's simply not a good enough coach to overcome the other factors imo.
Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't go for a coach guilty of systemic salary cap cheating, we should target someone like Bellamy instead.
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As per my last line... Flanagan isnt good enough to overcome those factors.
Bellemy? Yeah, he's good enough
hrundi89 wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 2:34 pm
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
We all know integrity and American sport have an arms length relationship.
I'm not sure I agree with you there.
The rules as they stand allow it. My suggestion would be to cap it to 5-10% of the full cap.
There is a scenario where yes there are injured players who go on LTIR and who happen to get better at the right time of year, so there needs to be an allowance.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with me about. I'm suggesting American sport is weak on integrity. Are you saying it's strong?
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hrundi89 wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 2:34 pm
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
We all know integrity and American sport have an arms length relationship.
I'm not sure I agree with you there.
The rules as they stand allow it. My suggestion would be to cap it to 5-10% of the full cap.
There is a scenario where yes there are injured players who go on LTIR and who happen to get better at the right time of year, so there needs to be an allowance.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with me about. I'm suggesting American sport is weak on integrity. Are you saying it's strong?
You're saying their leagues are lacking in integrity.
I'm saying the issue at hand wasn't due to a lack of integrity. The rule existed because I guess they didn't think there'd be a scenario in which a team would rest their best player for the whole season and activate him only for the playoffs. The Lightning didn't break any rules.
The issue is that the rule can allow for this scenario. They won the cup today and his presence helped.
They need to change the rule.
The rule doesn't only apply to certain teams. That would show a lack of integrity.
You may remember me from such forum usernames as hrundi99 and... hrundi99.
hrundi89 wrote: ↑July 7, 2021, 2:34 pm
Well the Tampa Bay Lightning is currently playing for the Stanley Cup despite being $18m over the $83m cap.
The cap doesn't count during the playoffs. They had 2 (of their best) players out for the season with injuries who were miraculously right to play in the 1st round.
We all know integrity and American sport have an arms length relationship.
I'm not sure I agree with you there.
The rules as they stand allow it. My suggestion would be to cap it to 5-10% of the full cap.
There is a scenario where yes there are injured players who go on LTIR and who happen to get better at the right time of year, so there needs to be an allowance.
Not sure what you're disagreeing with me about. I'm suggesting American sport is weak on integrity. Are you saying it's strong?
You're saying their leagues are lacking in integrity.
I'm saying the issue at hand wasn't due to a lack of integrity. The rule existed because I guess they didn't think there'd be a scenario in which a team would rest their best player for the whole season and activate him only for the playoffs. The Lightning didn't break any rules.
The issue is that the rule can allow for this scenario. They won the cup today and his presence helped.
They need to change the rule.
The rule doesn't only apply to certain teams. That would show a lack of integrity.
Very loose rules lead to exploitation, as per your example. Having major loopholes being exploited like this affects the integrity of the sport.
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The insanity of our interchange usage that game...
22nd minute interchange 1 Sutton on for Soliola.
23rd minute interchange 2 Guler on for Tapine.
34th minute forced interchange (3) CHN on for Croker.
Half over... Left Papalii out there the entire half for no real gain, saved Starling for no reason...
45th minute interchange 4 Starling on for Papalii.
60th minute interchange 5 Tapine on for Hodgson.
62nd minute interchange 6 Palii on for Sutton.
66th minute interchange 7 Hodgson for Guler, after that really useful six minute break.
We saved that last interchange for the bank, oh wait it doesn't work that way...
We had no ball at the start of the game, yet waited for the 22nd minute to do an interchange...
We kept Papalii out there for 40 minutes straight, for no reason...
Hodgson got a 6 minute rest... "yay"....
Soliola played 23 minutes, never to return...
Ultima wrote: ↑August 12, 2021, 10:03 pm
The insanity of our interchange usage that game...
22nd minute interchange 1 Sutton on for Soliola.
23rd minute interchange 2 Guler on for Tapine.
34th minute forced interchange (3) CHN on for Croker.
Half over... Left Papalii out there the entire half for no real gain, saved Starling for no reason...
45th minute interchange 4 Starling on for Papalii.
60th minute interchange 5 Tapine on for Hodgson.
62nd minute interchange 6 Palii on for Sutton.
66th minute interchange 7 Hodgson for Guler, after that really useful six minute break.
We saved that last interchange for the bank, oh wait it doesn't work that way...
We had no ball at the start of the game, yet waited for the 22nd minute to do an interchange...
We kept Papalii out there for 40 minutes straight, for no reason...
Hodgson got a 6 minute rest... "yay"....
Yes, his bench selection and use of the interchange is as bad as I have ever seen from an experienced coach.
He rarely fails to disappoint. The use of Starling and CHN is particularly puzzling. The Soliola selection makes no sense whatsoever.
Every man, their 3 dogs and the neighbours cat can see that we look better with Starling on the field; CHN is our most dangerous threat on the edge; Croker, Williams and Soliola are absolute passengers; and Hodgo's defence fades badly after about 60 minutes.
It's excruciating to watch an otherwise talented team struggle to maintain momentum while dealing with this sort of stuff.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑August 12, 2021, 10:25 pm
He clearly overthinks it.
Every man, their 3 dogs and the neighbours cat can see that we look better with Starling on the field; CHN is our most dangerous threat on the edge; Croker, Williams and Soliola are absolute passengers; and Hodgo's defence fades badly after about 60 minutes.
It's excruciating to watch an otherwise talented team struggle to maintain momentum while dealing with this sort of stuff.
Overthinking and inertia.
Not good at all in a coach
Also stop kicking early for the love of God. It had to be coached because I refuse to believe all our spine players independently think it's a good idea.
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑August 12, 2021, 10:25 pm
He clearly overthinks it.
Every man, their 3 dogs and the neighbours cat can see that we look better with Starling on the field; CHN is our most dangerous threat on the edge; Croker, Williams and Soliola are absolute passengers; and Hodgo's defence fades badly after about 60 minutes.
It's excruciating to watch an otherwise talented team struggle to maintain momentum while dealing with this sort of stuff.
Pete Cash wrote: ↑August 13, 2021, 8:53 am
Also stop kicking early for the love of God. It had to be coached because I refuse to believe all our spine players independently think it's a good idea.
Possession is everything
Yes. It's so frustrating. I think Ricky is going to back these guys to the bitter end though.
The early kicking... been driving me nuts for years. It makes even less sense in Vlandy's ball when you often end up defending 7-10 tackles. Are we going for 40/20s but just no one is coming close to executing?
Seiffert82 wrote: ↑August 12, 2021, 10:25 pm
He clearly overthinks it.
Every man, their 3 dogs and the neighbours cat can see that we look better with Starling on the field; CHN is our most dangerous threat on the edge; Croker, Williams and Soliola are absolute passengers; and Hodgo's defence fades badly after about 60 minutes.
It's excruciating to watch an otherwise talented team struggle to maintain momentum while dealing with this sort of stuff.
this - at least it makes us all feel like rugby league savants until you explain it as above.
