Coaching issues
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- Canberra Milk
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Re: Coaching issues
So it would reward one of the better attacking and exciting teams of the last 20 years? Sounds good to me
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Re: Coaching issues
I didn't say I hated it....just calling it as I see it...It may get boring if we start seeing more Super Rugby score lines.Canberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 11:15 am So it would reward one of the better attacking and exciting teams of the last 20 years? Sounds good to me
While the trend is with attacking sides, we still have wrestling and a messy ruck interpretation...so I do question the purpose of the change.
Last edited by GreenMachine on May 11, 2021, 4:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Coaching issues
Scorer should kick off. I've wanted this for years to arrest momentum gluts, and even more so with the new rules. That will mitigate the score blowouts
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Re: Coaching issues
Had the opposite effect in Super League.Canberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 11:49 am Scorer should kick off. I've wanted this for years to arrest momentum gluts, and even more so with the new rules. That will mitigate the score blowouts
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Re: Coaching issues
You mean the old 1997 super league? I forgot actually. That a long time ago though
Re: Coaching issues
I don’t really see how it would make an appreciable difference either way
This is not a sport where possessions are limited or able to be strictly controlled
Possession changes every 45-90 seconds
Making the scoring team kick off isn’t imo likely to move the needle greatly in creating close games
And in terms of game scripts, it makes it much harder for a team trailing by 2 scores to come home and win in the final 5-10, they don’t get to take the momentum of the try and immediately parlay it into a good set and push the pedal down
I don’t see any value in that idea at all
This is not a sport where possessions are limited or able to be strictly controlled
Possession changes every 45-90 seconds
Making the scoring team kick off isn’t imo likely to move the needle greatly in creating close games
And in terms of game scripts, it makes it much harder for a team trailing by 2 scores to come home and win in the final 5-10, they don’t get to take the momentum of the try and immediately parlay it into a good set and push the pedal down
I don’t see any value in that idea at all
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Re: Coaching issues
I hated it in super league and I hate the idea now... it's a fundamental shift in the game of rugby league that just isn't necessary.
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Re: Coaching issues
I just read Hooper's blog and someone mentioned that on Sportsbet's Transfer Whispers that Tapine is linked with the Roosters for 2022. Does anyone have any information on this ? I hope Tapine stays as he is the type of player we need, had a great year, and this year hasn't set the world on fire but most of his team maters haven't. Stuart has eradicated some inconsistency in his game last year and he is controlling his temper - even being calm when Stephen Crichton was asking for it in that huddle.
- Canberra Milk
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Re: Coaching issues
I would be absolutely gutted if Tapine went to Roosters. I would consider sitting out the season, as I threatened to do if Milf went to Broncos (but never did)
Why should I follow a comp if we're just going to be a feeder club for clubs that are already (far) better than us
Why should I follow a comp if we're just going to be a feeder club for clubs that are already (far) better than us
Re: Coaching issues
We havent been a feeder club for others for some time now, that would be a gross overreaction to one player movement.
Re: Coaching issues
It was introduced in Super League... because the idea was that the game would be sped up so much that we'd be seeing plenty of points and try for try... which adds to the excitement and the closeness of the scores.The Nickman wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 3:49 pm I hated it in super league and I hate the idea now... it's a fundamental shift in the game of rugby league that just isn't necessary.
Now, I think that's basketball, that's Australian Rules, and that's rubbish.
But it actually fits together with the other rule changes the NRL has introduced.
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Re: Coaching issues
Teams get repeat sets, either through forced dropouts or set restarts, which often leads to tries. That in turn gets them the ball again, which in turn leads to more set restarts (due to a referee perception of "momentum"), and more fatigue in the other team. It becomes a spiral
The scoring team kicking off would interrupt that cycle
The scoring team kicking off would interrupt that cycle
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Re: Coaching issues
No we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
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Re: Coaching issues
Nothing wrong with Oztag!GreenMachine wrote: Yeah they would be killing it...
In an effort to remove wrestling, rather than outlaw wrestling, the NRL has turned the game into glorified Oztag...
Re: Coaching issues
But it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly WiganCanberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:40 pmNo we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.
As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
Re: Coaching issues
If the salary cap and the other suite of other NRL policies were producing an even competition, then we'd see a much greater diversity of teams playing finals, Grand Finals and winning premierships.Botman wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:42 pmBut it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly WiganCanberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:40 pmNo we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.
As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
Re: Coaching issues
The lack of diversity reflects the fact there are only 2 clubs who are actually run at a super professional level. RL administration is still largely in the dark ages... and the 3, they've finally figured out they live in the greatest single sporting nursury in the country. There is no single region that produces talent quite like Penrith, they're leaning in and reaping the rewards.
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Re: Coaching issues
Regardless of my reaction, do you think the NRL has a bit of EPL about it of late? Do you see the Storm/Roosters duopoly being broken any time soon? Ok Panthers have looked promising. But what tends to happen is that some teams have the occasional premiership window, whereas Storm/Roosters are always thereaboutsBotman wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:42 pmBut it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly WiganCanberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:40 pmNo we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.
As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
So we're different from EPL in that respect, because there the smaller teams don't even have premiership windows (although they did have Leicester, so aren't entirely deterministic either). But we've still got a flicker of it
I would say it's the mechanism of players wanting to go to Storm/Roosters, and for less money (self fulfilling prophecy), our incompetence, and our geography. All of the above, not one or the other
Re: Coaching issues
Do i see the duopoly being broken anytime soon? No.Canberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:59 pmRegardless of my reaction, do you think the NRL has a bit of EPL about it of late? Do you see the Storm/Roosters duopoly being broken any time soon? Ok Panthers have looked promising. But what tends to happen is that some teams have the occasional premiership window, whereas Storm/Roosters are always thereaboutsBotman wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:42 pmBut it's happened before and we got out, we've actually done it to some extent to other clubs (including to get Tapine), particularly WiganCanberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:40 pmNo we haven't, but Roosters taking Tapine would be an indicator of that changing. I don't like big clubs taking the best players from smaller clubs, to me that's an indicator, veering towards a monopoly where a few big clubs run the show. Like how happens in the EPL, all major European soccer leagues actually, Bayern took Lewandowski from Borussia Dortmund, etc
We have a salary cap, this is not european soccer. There is nothing stopping us from success, as 2019-20 showed, other than our own incompetence.
As i said, that would be a gross overreaction.
So we're different from EPL in that respect, because there the smaller teams don't even have premiership windows (although they did have Leicester, so aren't entirely deterministic either). But we've still got a flicker of it
I would say it's the mechanism of players wanting to go to Storm/Roosters, and for less money (self fulfilling prophecy), our incompetence, and our geography. All of the above, not one or the other
Why? Because those clubs are operating at a professional level that few other clubs are. Certainly not ours... that's on the clubs. There is nothing stopping this club from doing what the storm have done. Any club can do what those clubs do. They're playing under the same rules... yes there are some natural advantages due to geography, but as the last 3 years have shown, we can put together a team capable of competing and winning a title. We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
Players are attracted to professionalism and success. Success breeds success. As above, there is nothing that limits us from success.
The roosters spent 30 years in the doldrums, the storm were also rans for long periods of their existence.
Souths went 10000 years without a premiership. Heartland of RL. Brisbane, a powerhouse for so long, now a total rabble.
How does this occur?
Coaching. Roster management. Professionalism.
There is nothing stopping us from excelling in these areas other than ourselves
Re: Coaching issues
The Storm have virtually never been also rans... apart from the NRL enforced penalties for their salary cap cheating.
Re: Coaching issues
Fair, im looking at their record now and i can see that is true
i also see how i fell into that trap... i didnt quite realise the greatest coach in NRL history has coached them for all by 5 years of their existence. A guy we could have had, but Matt Elliott had a banger powerpoint, so y'know...
The other points stand
Coaching. Roster management. Professionalism.
There is nothing stopping us from excelling in these areas other than ourselves
i also see how i fell into that trap... i didnt quite realise the greatest coach in NRL history has coached them for all by 5 years of their existence. A guy we could have had, but Matt Elliott had a banger powerpoint, so y'know...
The other points stand
Coaching. Roster management. Professionalism.
There is nothing stopping us from excelling in these areas other than ourselves
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Re: Coaching issues
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
I loved Oztag, because I couldn’t tackle.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:42 pmNothing wrong with Oztag!GreenMachine wrote: Yeah they would be killing it...
In an effort to remove wrestling, rather than outlaw wrestling, the NRL has turned the game into glorified Oztag...
Re: Coaching issues
Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pmNothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
You troll
Re: Coaching issues
agreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.Botman wrote:Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pmNothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.bonehead wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 8:29 amagreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.Botman wrote:Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pmNothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
This thread.... moments ago people are saying momentum is such a thing it needs a rule change to fix the game, now people are saying the two massive momentum changers in that game, both which directly lead to tries for the Roosters, didn't make a difference...
Re: Coaching issues
They missed the finals for 2 seasons 2001/02. I think Michael Murray was the coach?
Bellamy came in 2003, they beat us 3/3 that year including week 1 of finals. They've made finals every season since with the exception of 2010 when they were docked all their competition points.
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Re: Coaching issues
Not sure if you mean Mark Murray, or Chad Michael Murraymongoose wrote:They missed the finals for 2 seasons 2001/02. I think Michael Murray was the coach?
Bellamy came in 2003, they beat us 3/3 that year including week 1 of finals. They've made finals every season since with the exception of 2010 when they were docked all their competition points.
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Re: Coaching issues
This. Between not being able to capitalise on them being 10 mins Cronkless, and Leilua’s brain fart at the end, we done messed up A-A-RonBotman wrote:Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.bonehead wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 8:29 amagreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.Botman wrote:Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pmNothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
I would be very interested to see how Penrith handled that. Right now the strategy is to give teams no respite whatsoever with things like line drop outs. If you get one against them Penrith will take it ASAP.Canberra Milk wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 8:37 pm Teams get repeat sets, either through forced dropouts or set restarts, which often leads to tries. That in turn gets them the ball again, which in turn leads to more set restarts (due to a referee perception of "momentum"), and more fatigue in the other team. It becomes a spiral
The scoring team kicking off would interrupt that cycle
Imagine that they score and the try scorer just picks up the ball and they run back to half way for the kick off.
Re: Coaching issues
Pigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.Botman wrote:Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.bonehead wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 8:29 amagreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.Botman wrote:Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pmNothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?Botman wrote:We didnt win one but we absolutely could have, nothing prohibited us from doing so other than our own performance on the night.
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Re: Coaching issues
Jack Wighton took a tackle... hard to score a try on the very play that we took a tackle onBJ wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 1:03 pm Pigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.
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Re: Coaching issues
We still could have blown it.BJ wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 1:03 pmPigman you say we wouldn’t have scored in the grand final with the 6 more tackles. If the ref doesn’t make that call we score on that very play. I had a great angle live in the grandstand and we had them totally shot on the right with multiple scoring options. Simple draw and pass.Botman wrote:Correct. We scored 1 try in the 80 minute game, which included a period where we had a 12 on 13 advantage and still couldnt crack them. This idea that had we been given 6 more tackles, suddenly the flood gates open and we win that game is the stuff of fantasy.bonehead wrote: ↑May 12, 2021, 8:29 amagreed, we bombed our moment to win the match whilst the Roosters executed their moment.Botman wrote:Nope. Can’t think of anything that altered the outcome of that game save for our performance.gangrenous wrote: ↑May 11, 2021, 10:20 pm
Nothing? Nothing springs to mind other than the performance of the Raiders that might have influenced the outcome say....?
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There is nothing external stopping the Raiders from being a successful football team and winning premierships.
Realistically though its a pointless debate because it's arguing about what would have happened if something happened that didn't happen. What we do know is the opportunity was taken away from the Raiders and given to the Roosters who subsequently scored. The decision may not have altered the outcome but it did influence it.
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