2020 Rd 7 V Cowboys: Teams and Previews *Teams p1*

[Raiders_Pat]

Think everyone is forgetting Ryan James...

Let's be real, Croker won't be dropped, so here is my preferred team with Croker in it:

1. Aekins
2. Valemei
3. Croker
4. Scott (because I want Kris on the bench as cover. Also let's give Scott a little bit of credit, he was fantastic the first two games and has just come back from injury, he gets one more chance)
5. Rapana (you can't fault his effort, he comes up with boneheaded plays but he is always at 110%)
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Sutton
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Kris
15. Young
16. Guler
17. James
18. Horse

No need to carry Starling as Ricky barely used him and Kris is a more versatile 14. No need for Havili as we have better middles and edge on the bench now with Young on the bench. Just have to hope Hodgo can go 80 and stop overplaying his hand.

Considering the fact that Stuart won't drop Croker, this would also be my team. Although I'd like to see Valemei on the left wing and Rapana on the right.

[VictorTheViking]

Aekins
Valemei
Croker
Scott
Timoko
Wighton
Williams
Papalii
Hodgson
Sutton
Tapine (edge footwork please)
Whitehead
Young

Starling
James
CHN/horse
Kris


Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[GreenMachine]

1.Aekins
2. Timoko
3. Kris
4. Scott
5. Valemei
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalli (possibly start off the bench for this game)
9. Starling (allows the halves to gain control of the game before Hodgo comes on)
10. Tapine
11. CHN
12. Whitehead (really needs to lift)
13. Young

14. Sutton
15. Guler
16. Hodgson (covers hooker/halves/running forward)
17. Rapana (covers backs)

18. James

[Raider47]

The problem I see is that pur backline is genuinely on par with that of the Broncos, Bulldogs, Tigers, Cowboys etc. It truly is bottom 5 material.

Even withstanding our supposed great forward pack and spine (who are all horribly out of form) I can't see how we make up for a putrid backline to be proper contenders this year.

If we finish top 6 it'll be off the back of some outstanding individual performers.

Oh how I wish we forked out the extra 50k to keep Cotric.

[GreenMachine]

The Broncos have some outstanding outside backs...they have terrible halves ..
If you combined our halves with the Bronco backline, you would have a balanced 1 to 7.

[The Nickman]

I think it’s time for a shakeup, and honestly, this is how I’d do it (I realise Stick probably won’t go as hard):

1. Aekins
2. Valamei (on the left!)
3. Kris
4. Scott
5. Rapana (on the **** right, otherwise Simo!)
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
14. Starling
10. Young
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

9. Hodgson
15. Guler
16. Sutton
17. James

[Raider47]

The Broncos have some outstanding outside backs...they have terrible halves ..
If you combined our halves with the Bronco backline, you would have a balanced 1 to 7.

Yep I thought that as soon as I posted it. Coates, Staggs- how I dream for that over our plodders.

[radicalraider]

Like last year.. latrell will be out suspended for our match in 2 weeks

[BVRaider]

I agree with the posters in regards to the loss of Nicoll-Klokstad being detrimental to us, hoping we can still tread water without him but his absence is already being felt. As some have pointed out we're struggling to replace the impact of Bateman, Harawira-Naera doesn't match his defensive work rate but has similar attributes in regards to game breaking ability and we need more options on that right edge. Young has impressed in the back row but is still better for us in the middle at this stage. Croker will not be dropped so I won't entertain the thought but as most have said needs to pull his finger out, he and Hodgson are unfortunately just not physically up to the pace of the game anymore but I feel as though we can still benefit from Hodgsons class like the Roosters did with Verrils/Friend. Simonsson just hasn't kicked on like we would of hoped and seems to lack footy nous, still time for him to get it right but we need to bring in Valemei and put him next to Croker.

1. Aekins
2. Valemei
3. Croker
4. Scott
5. Rapana
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Starling
10. Lui
11. Whitehead
12. Harawira-Naera
13. Tapine

14. Hodgson
15. Young
16. Sutton
17. Kris

[1992]

Stick to name the same 17 to give them a chance redeem themselves.

We win 38-34 against the Cows and are back on track as contenders.

[radicalraider]

Have we had an elite halves pairing since Ricky and Daley retired

[gangrenous]

I said it before the Eels game, but I really don’t see us winning too much without CNK, or at least struggling heavily and last night proved that theory to a tee. We’re now something like 60-12 down since he went off injured.

Cowboys game looming as a massive upset here.

I can't tell if this is a stitch up or you actually believe it.
We were outclassed by Penrith and Parra and CNK wasn't going to make a shred of difference. In fact, most people agreed Aekin did very well for his debut.
When CNK returns, he should play with the either the No.1 or No. 3 on his back....if were serious.
He's definitely in our starting side, but not the reason we look insipid at the moment.

What was the score when CNK went off against the Panthers again? Help me out?

[The Nickman]

I said it before the Eels game, but I really don’t see us winning too much without CNK, or at least struggling heavily and last night proved that theory to a tee. We’re now something like 60-12 down since he went off injured.

Cowboys game looming as a massive upset here.

I can't tell if this is a stitch up or you actually believe it.
We were outclassed by Penrith and Parra and CNK wasn't going to make a shred of difference. In fact, most people agreed Aekin did very well for his debut.
When CNK returns, he should play with the either the No.1 or No. 3 on his back....if were serious.
He's definitely in our starting side, but not the reason we look insipid at the moment.

What was the score when CNK went off against the Panthers again? Help me out?

Interestingly, going into the Penrith game I thought we were a good chance of springing an upset, even bet fifty on us at $3.10. And I thought we would’ve got close if CNK didn’t get knocked out, although we’ll obviously never know, we were leading the match and looking quite good.

Then coming into this week I told everyone who would listen that we’d struggle, particularly in defence, with CNK missing, and that’s exactly how it played out.

I’m not even sure why people are trying to deny how much of an impact his loss is having, particularly to our usually rock solid defence, but I guess, y’know... the Greenhouse.

[gangrenous]

I think it’s time for a shakeup, and honestly, this is how I’d do it (I realise Stick probably won’t go as hard):

1. Aekins
2. Valamei (on the left!)
3. Kris
4. Scott
5. Rapana (on the **** right, otherwise Simo!)
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
14. Starling
10. Young
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

9. Hodgson
15. Guler
16. Sutton
17. James

You’re asking for Ricky to go round 4 of the no outside back coverage on the bench?

Otherwise put Croker instead of Scott and it looks alright. Still not sold on Valemei, but I’d give him another shot.

[The Nickman]

I think it’s time for a shakeup, and honestly, this is how I’d do it (I realise Stick probably won’t go as hard):

1. Aekins
2. Valamei (on the left!)
3. Kris
4. Scott
5. Rapana (on the **** right, otherwise Simo!)
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
14. Starling
10. Young
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

9. Hodgson
15. Guler
16. Sutton
17. James

You’re asking for Ricky to go round 4 of the no outside back coverage on the bench?

Otherwise put Croker instead of Scott and it looks alright. Still not sold on Valemei, but I’d give him another shot.

Yes, because I think CHN provides adequate coverage if an outside back goes down, certainly better than Elliott Whitehead does.

[GreenMachine]

I said it before the Eels game, but I really don’t see us winning too much without CNK, or at least struggling heavily and last night proved that theory to a tee. We’re now something like 60-12 down since he went off injured.

Cowboys game looming as a massive upset here.

I can't tell if this is a stitch up or you actually believe it.
We were outclassed by Penrith and Parra and CNK wasn't going to make a shred of difference. In fact, most people agreed Aekin did very well for his debut.
When CNK returns, he should play with the either the No.1 or No. 3 on his back....if were serious.
He's definitely in our starting side, but not the reason we look insipid at the moment.

What was the score when CNK went off against the Panthers again? Help me out?

I don’t understand how that matters?
We were outclassed across the park.
We’ve faded all season because our dads army squad can’t cope with the ball in play longer...
But please continue thinking missing CNK is THE reason...

[gangrenous]

Anyone on here capable of more than one thought in their head? No CNK out is not the only problem, but it’s certainly a big one.

While he was out there we were holding our own against Penrith. That’s supported by the scoreboard.

[GreenMachine]

I said it before the Eels game, but I really don’t see us winning too much without CNK, or at least struggling heavily and last night proved that theory to a tee. We’re now something like 60-12 down since he went off injured.

Cowboys game looming as a massive upset here.

I can't tell if this is a stitch up or you actually believe it.
We were outclassed by Penrith and Parra and CNK wasn't going to make a shred of difference. In fact, most people agreed Aekin did very well for his debut.
When CNK returns, he should play with the either the No.1 or No. 3 on his back....if were serious.
He's definitely in our starting side, but not the reason we look insipid at the moment.

What was the score when CNK went off against the Panthers again? Help me out?

Interestingly, going into the Penrith game I thought we were a good chance of springing an upset, even bet fifty on us at $3.10. And I thought we would’ve got close if CNK didn’t get knocked out, although we’ll obviously never know, we were leading the match and looking quite good.

Then coming into this week I told everyone who would listen that we’d struggle, particularly in defence, with CNK missing, and that’s exactly how it played out.

I’m not even sure why people are trying to deny how much of an impact his loss is having, particularly to our usually rock solid defence, but I guess, y’know... the Greenhouse.

I tipped us to win the whole comp this season before a ball was kicked. Nobody is higher on us than I am...
Weeks into this competition it’s clear the lack of planning around some strike in our backline (due to the way these new rules are implemented) is hurting us.
Our attack suffers because of slow work from dummy half and a blunt edge out wide.
Ricky doesn’t know his best forward pack nor how to manage underperforming players who are in the side on reputation. “The Good Bloke” conundrum”..

Got nothing to do with CNK (who I like despite his flaws as a ball player).

[GreenMachine]

Anyone on here capable of more than one thought in their head? No CNK out is not the only problem, but it’s certainly a big one.

While he was out there we were holding our own against Penrith. That’s supported by the scoreboard.

I think it’s been addressed by plenty of people here...

[gangrenous]

Quote some who aren’t alphabet

[GreenMachine]

CNK played the Warriors game too...
You know, the one where we let an unassailable lead go...
Didn’t see a lot of his “almost mythical” levels of defence organisation in that game...
Is he granted diminished responsibility because there were other factors in that game?

[gangrenous]

Oh he struggled to organise a team with no replacements who were out on their feet? However could that be rationally explained I wonder?

[Wiki Special]

1. Caleb Aekins
2. Bailey Simonsson (left)
3. Jarrod Croker (left)
4. Curtis Scott (right)
5. Jordan Rapana (right)
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Ryan Sutton
11. Hudson Young (left)
12. Elliott Whitehead (right)
13. Joe Tapine

14. Sebastian Kris
15. Corey Harawira-Naera
16. Corey Horsburgh
17. Ryan James

18. Siliva Havili

[yurithe1]

1. Aekins
2. Kris
3. Croker 'coz, let's face it, Ricky isn't going to dump him just yet.
4. Scott to help out an inexperienced Timoko
5. Timoko
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. Papalii
9. Hodgson
10. Sutton
11. Young
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Starling
15. James in place of Guler seeing he was merely being rested against the Eels.
16. CHN who had a cracker of a game in Reserves against the Eels.
17. Rapana seeing as he doesn't have the pace he used to, but he can still do a reasonable job as a utility back.

18. Horsburgh

And on Ricky's "you're not forgotten bench":
19. Sia
20. Havili
21. Guler

[Off]

Is this Georgie porgie fella gunna start to show something or what, Bring back the other Williams.

[GreenMachine]

Oh he struggled to organise a team with no replacements who were out on their feet? However could that be rationally explained I wonder?

I'm told he can turn water into wine by some folk around here..

The point is you look to apply the causality theory for your argument, totally ignoring all the other factors that contribute to the result.
Like the fact that our attack has been blunt, WITH CNK in the team too, for all the reasons I've already stated.

You were on the right path when you said missing CNK is PART of the problem. However, it is not THE singular reason for our insipid performances the last two games, but moreso the season thus far (as some people like to wrongly believe).

We have been way off because our game plan (grind and crash ball) isn't suited to a fast paced attacking contest and our hooker/halves can't combine.
And on the off occasion they manage to combine, our slow old ass blunt backline isn't converting chances...

All an oversight by the coach who had an off season to prepare.

[gangrenous]

I think you’ve forgotten what you’re arguing.

You’re the one who tried to say CNK “wouldn’t make a shred of difference”.

You’re the idiot arguing in absolutes.

[The Nickman]

I think you’ve forgotten what you’re arguing.

You’re the one who tried to say CNK “wouldn’t make a shred of difference”.

You’re the idiot arguing in absolutes.

Hahahaha incredible stuff here

[RedRaider]

1. Caleb Aikens
2. Bailey Simonsson (left)
3. Jarrod Croker (left)
4. Curtis Scott (right)
5. Jordan Rapana (right)
6. Jack Wighton
7. George Williams
8. Josh Papalii
9. Josh Hodgson
10. Ryan Sutton
11. Hudson Young (left)
12. Elliott Whitehead (right)
13. Joe Tapine

14. Sebastian Kris
15. Corey Harawira-Naera
16. Emre Guler
17. Ryan James

18. Siliva Havili

I would keep the second rowers in their current positions and have Havili in for James. I don't know that Hodgo is an 80 minute option at present. He has been smashed in both the last 2 games. I did not think he would play against the Eels with his hip injury sustained against the Panthers. I reckon we need cover for him. I think Sticky will put a challenge up to Tapine to get more power into his running game. If BS does not recover than Kris into the starting 13 and Timoko onto the bench.

[GreenMachine]

I think you’ve forgotten what you’re arguing.

You’re the one who tried to say CNK “wouldn’t make a shred of difference”.

You’re the idiot arguing in absolutes.

Comprehension must have been optional for you growing up.

[Travis]

To me, our biggest issues are:
1. Conceding easy metres between the 20m lines. This is typically poor attitude, line speed or technical issues (ie. conceding offloads or falling off tackles). This occurs when the opposition attack is more enthusiastic than our defence. Should be easy enough to fix with an improved attitude and replacing players like Sia. Also linked to our previous attacking set's meterage and kick; this needs to improve greatly.

2. Poor right edge defence when defending from 20m to goal line. The unit of Simo, Scott, Young and Williams are seriously under-performing here, through tactics, talk or attitude (hard to tell when you're not there). Slow middles pushing across can also have a negative impact. CNK's coverage and talk are big losses here (no coincidence that this has become glaring in his absence - I dare say he provides the three elements mentioned above).

Obviously, our attack is poor in the above two areas too. We don't get many chances attacking the 20m, and this will build over time (and Hodgo getting less time), so it is the area of least concern, to me. The big area is our failure to play between the 20s. Our forwards have been out-enthused by defensive lines and we don't have a 3/4 line to make up for this (like we did a few years ago).

My team to address all of the above is:

1 - Aekins (until CNK's return)
2 - Rapana
3 - Timoko (give both Croker and Scott time in reserves to prove they can get back in the side)
4 - Kris
5 - Valemei (possibly Aekins after CNK's return, if Valemei struggles)
6 - Wighton
7 - Williams
8 - Papa
9 - Starling (give him the first 25-30 minutes)
10 - Sutton
11 - Young (give him the first 45-50 minutes)
12 - Whitehead
13 - Tapine

14 - Hodgson (plays the final 50-55 minutes)
15 - Guler
16 - James
17 - CHN (plays the final 30-35 minutes, or cover for OB injury)

18 - Horsburgh - first in line to replace an under-performing / injured middle

[Andymachine]

1. Aekins
2. Valemei (LEFT)
3. Kris
4. Scott
5. Rapana (RIGHT)
6. Wighton
7. Williams
8. James
9. Hodgson/Starling
10. Sutton
11. CHN
12. Whitehead
13. Tapine

14. Timoko
15. Young
16. Guler
17. Papalii

[greeneyed]

There's more than one problem.

As I wrote elsewhere...

"The Raiders were impacted, no doubt, by the loss of Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. Not so much in terms of metres gained. Caleb Aekins had a good game, and contributed plenty of metres. But losing Nicoll-Klokstad has probably impacted the Raiders' defence. Fullbacks are crucial in organising defences - and it is not easy for anyone to step into that role."

But then there's a list of other problems... Hodgson out of form, not combining well with the halves, the halves not getting opportunity, Starling underutilised, lack of strike in the backs, long kicking game is poor and the pack isn't compensating, lack of impact off the bench (Soliola and Havili), losing the battle for territory as a result.

viewtopic.php?p=1789457#p1789457

A missing CNK is a problem, but it's not the only problem. It can be more than one.

[RedRaider]

2. Poor right edge defence when defending from 20m to goal line. The unit of Simo, Scott, Young and Williams are seriously under-performing here, through tactics, talk or attitude (hard to tell when you're not there). Slow middles pushing across can also have a negative impact. CNK's coverage and talk are big losses here (no coincidence that this has become glaring in his absence - I dare say he provides the three elements mentioned above).

Travis, while I agree with most of your post, I think the bolded section needs a comment. Scott is the opposite of a ball watcher, he is making decisions not based on who has the ball but where he thinks the ball is going to be. This leaves a gap to his left when the ball is not passed. Even with this flaw this was the right side unit that started the game and played most of the way to being 12-10 at half time. That is not a bad position. It was after BS went off and EW moved to right center and Scott to the wing that the reshuffle really hurt us.

Also something happened in their first try which is a rarity. The Eels Papalii went straight through our Big Papa for the try. I think Sticky identified that the Eels Papalii would attack down our right and placed Big Papa there to stop him. Big Papa had Eels Papalii lined up for a shot but Eels Papalii shrugged off our International Prop's tackle as though he wasn't there and went over for the try. It has probably happened in the past but I cannot recall such an ineffective one on one tackle from Big Papa.

[Azza]

There's more than one problem.

As I wrote elsewhere...

"The Raiders were impacted, no doubt, by the loss of Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad. Not so much in terms of metres gained. Caleb Aekins had a good game, and contributed plenty of metres. But losing Nicoll-Klokstad has probably impacted the Raiders' defence. Fullbacks are crucial in organising defences - and it is not easy for anyone to step into that role."

But then there's a list of other problems... Hodgson out of form, not combining well with the halves, the halves not getting opportunity, Starling underutilised, lack of strike in the backs, long kicking game is poor and the pack isn't compensating, lack of impact off the bench (Soliola and Havili), losing the battle for territory as a result.

viewtopic.php?p=1789457#p1789457

A missing CNK is a problem, but it's not the only problem. It can be more than one.

I would just summarise it as: we stink aye.