He's made 140m + his last two weeks. His yards game is decent this year. Simo is heavier, 5cm taller. Aekins isn't noted for a power game. I'll just disagree with you there.
Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yeah Aekins is no winger. Don't believe there's any chance he's better than Simo there.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
oNlYBotman wrote: ↑April 12, 2021, 7:17 pm Also at least it's only 2 months... which means he'll be back well in time to get some legs into him before the finals
We've also got a bye week in 8 weeks, so it might make sense to say he's out until after the bye, and then we've got a nice little month of footy for him to find his feet
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yeah top 3 in our metres last week. His output has gone up a lot the last 2 weeks. Aekins isn't a winger. It's fullback or bust.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Well I think this is a deadset disaster, but obviously I rate CNK a lot higher than a lot of this forum does.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
im curious to know what skills you guys think that a winger needs to possess that a career specialist fullback wouldnt have?
Whilst not all NRL wingers can functionally play fullback at an acceptable NRL level, in fact few can, the reverse would be true in my mind that almost any player who is capable of playing fullback at an NRL level can certainly line up and play on the wing.
I think Aekins has play about a dozen games and whilst he certainly wasnt a superstar, he more than held his own as a fullback. No question is my mind that he could play on the wing
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
It's a similar issue to what Will kennedy had last year before he bulked up. There's no penetration with Aekins. You've either got to do it with power, speed or evasion and he just doesn't have enough of any of those to be a first choice winger in your 13.
Guys like Corey Thompson are a perfect example of the effort required for a smaller winger. He never gives up. Even on the ground he's crawling and he's also very agile. Aekins doesn't play like Thompson.
At fullback Aekins will get more space to work in attack and he won't be required to bring us out of trouble. While his positioning will help in defense. He can use strengths that aren't just physical.
Guys like Corey Thompson are a perfect example of the effort required for a smaller winger. He never gives up. Even on the ground he's crawling and he's also very agile. Aekins doesn't play like Thompson.
At fullback Aekins will get more space to work in attack and he won't be required to bring us out of trouble. While his positioning will help in defense. He can use strengths that aren't just physical.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Aekins is certainly going to need to help us get out of trouble, that's one of the main roles CNK plays. But interesting answer.
So my next question then, why the love for Simo?
Where is his penetration? His power? His Evasion? Speed i'll give him a pass on because he's probably our fastest back, but he's not close to game breaking speed.
But the other attributes? I know theoretically he has them. Former 9's (?) RU player should be evasive, if he's got some level of speed, he should be able to convert that to power and penetration... but it hasnt shown up yet imo.
So my next question then, why the love for Simo?
Where is his penetration? His power? His Evasion? Speed i'll give him a pass on because he's probably our fastest back, but he's not close to game breaking speed.
But the other attributes? I know theoretically he has them. Former 9's (?) RU player should be evasive, if he's got some level of speed, he should be able to convert that to power and penetration... but it hasnt shown up yet imo.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I think his grunt runs have definitely improved, but he's not like Cotric where he can't create line breaks after breaking 7 tackles
Looking at some of our sets last week, he and Rapana were the only ones making metres out of danger, Croker got bashed and Kris barely saw the ball.
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Looking at some of our sets last week, he and Rapana were the only ones making metres out of danger, Croker got bashed and Kris barely saw the ball.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
At this stage Simonsson is a below average winger in most respects, but he has bulked up quite a bit over the offseason. I suspect that has cost him some speed, hit his hitups are noticeably better.
He has almost zero stepping ability or evasion in his game though. Like a poor man's Rapana.
He has almost zero stepping ability or evasion in his game though. Like a poor man's Rapana.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
1 A modern winger needs some size as they play like an extra forward in the defensive 10-20m zone on early carries. A FB can get away with just going to ground sometimes on kick returns but on those early rucks you need some wingers with a power game.Botman wrote: ↑April 13, 2021, 1:16 pm
im curious to know what skills you guys think that a winger needs to possess that a career specialist fullback wouldnt have?
Whilst not all NRL wingers can functionally play fullback at an acceptable NRL level, in fact few can, the reverse would be true in my mind that almost any player who is capable of playing fullback at an NRL level can certainly line up and play on the wing.
I think Aekins has play about a dozen games and whilst he certainly wasnt a superstar, he more than held his own as a fullback. No question is my mind that he could play on the wing
2 A modern winger ideally has good speed- especially if they do not have that power game. Aekins doesn't seem to. He'd be roughly CNK pace from what I can see. So while Rapana or CNK may not be quick anymore, they both have a power game and some footwork, so make a decent winger. Caeleb is just slightly less robust. Even before JAC or similar bulked up, he had great speed and knew how to use it.
3 The other winger skill is getting those corner finishes. No idea if Caeleb could or not. But there IS a real skill to it, the timing, when to pin the ears and dive or when to step in, the acrobatics and judgement and hands of the grounding. We've seen how mucked up Rapana has been on his wrong side. Highlighted it is a very specific skill area for mine.
4 Hands and positioning on defusing kicks I'd agree winger and FB share from FB to winger certainly (winger o FB being the harder transition).
My feeling is that Caeleb would lack the power game and speed that would make our back 5 better as a winger. If he's not a FB, better off trying Semi or Hoppa.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I'm gutted for CNK and think this is a hugely devastating blow.
Willing to give this Aekins a chance - this is obviously what he was brought in for, we may as well use him for it. We've got some big games coming up and a specialist fullback is going to be a much better option than a makeshift one.
Willing to give this Aekins a chance - this is obviously what he was brought in for, we may as well use him for it. We've got some big games coming up and a specialist fullback is going to be a much better option than a makeshift one.
And to all the people who doubted me, hello to them as well. - Mark Webber, Raiders Ballboy and Unluckiest F1 Driver Ever
I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
I'm attacking in the right way, instead of just...attacking in the general direction. - Max Aaron (also eerily apropos for the Green Machine)
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I worry about Simonsson under pressure at the back under the high ball. They will seriously test him out. That's why I want to see a specialist in No. 1. Simonsson is under pressure to keep his wing spot, I certainly wouldn't be moving him to fullback.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Caeleb Aekins has to be given the first crack at FB. that's the reason why he was signed for? Toots Jnr is great in the air but like Rapana wouldn't have the fitness to maintain a full 80 mins at FB. Rapana has filled in before and can do it. but only for a couple of weeks. he was gassed last week.
Did any else notice Toots Jnr grab at his shoulder and roll/wave his arm after his drive/flip try in the corner on Friday?
Did any else notice Toots Jnr grab at his shoulder and roll/wave his arm after his drive/flip try in the corner on Friday?
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Are we talking over the guys that we currently have? I'm sure he could play on the wing and wouldn't disgrace himself if we happened to play him there, but I don't think he'd be better than any of the players that currently form the depth for the position at all.Botman wrote: ↑April 13, 2021, 1:16 pm
im curious to know what skills you guys think that a winger needs to possess that a career specialist fullback wouldnt have?
Whilst not all NRL wingers can functionally play fullback at an acceptable NRL level, in fact few can, the reverse would be true in my mind that almost any player who is capable of playing fullback at an NRL level can certainly line up and play on the wing.
I think Aekins has play about a dozen games and whilst he certainly wasnt a superstar, he more than held his own as a fullback. No question is my mind that he could play on the wing
He doesn't have the right mix of height/speed/power/size for the position to me - Simo's got him on all four fronts.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
He's definitely more powerful. We have to choose in a bubble here so while Simo isn't lighting the world on fire compared to other wingers in the comp he's got more penetration than Aekins and he's one of our best in the air when attacking.Botman wrote: ↑April 13, 2021, 1:58 pm Aekins is certainly going to need to help us get out of trouble, that's one of the main roles CNK plays. But interesting answer.
So my next question then, why the love for Simo?
Where is his penetration? His power? His Evasion? Speed i'll give him a pass on because he's probably our fastest back, but he's not close to game breaking speed.
But the other attributes? I know theoretically he has them. Former 9's (?) RU player should be evasive, if he's got some level of speed, he should be able to convert that to power and penetration... but it hasnt shown up yet imo.
Simonsson is also showing year on year improvement. He was making some terrible defensive decisions in previous years but that seems to have been cleared up. The crazy over thinking from earlier rounds which had him on my **** list has disappeared. I'm hoping with more time we start to see some nuisance in his game with the ball to improve they way he brings us out of trouble.
Watching Aekins in reserve grade he looks like the exact same Aekins that was playing reserve grade for the panthers. Hopefully this call up gives him a shot in the arm. Some guys need that first grade jersey before we see the best of them. I'd say Semi Valemei is one of those guys too. He's capable of more than he's outputting in reserves. He's not playing badly but there's not as much of the dominant running we saw from him last year.
If I was going to pick a winger to come in it would be Valemei.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yeah i think its clear we are not on the same page with Simo. I'm firmly in GE's camp where i think he's struggling to hold down a FG spot and any player, including Aekins, who gets a shot at FG, if they out perform him, they're a chance to take his spot.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I'm not against someone who's performing taking his spot. Just haven't seen anything from Aekins so far to indicate that's coming. Maybe Aekins sets the world on fire with some rainbow passes and we end up with CNK on the wing.
30ft spirals for days.
30ft spirals for days.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
As i said in my initial post, i dont think it's very likely, tbh it was less a comment on Aekins and more a comment on Simo. Because i dont think he's cemented that spot at all and i think any outside back who gets a shot in FG, has a chance to play well enough to oust him.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Be interesting to see where it ends up next year with Rapana retiring. Valemei should be in the mix.
Kris if we retain him probably makes a permanent switch to the backrow over the next couple of seasons.
Savage still at least a year away with the genuine pace.
Perhaps Hopoate makes a move.
Kris if we retain him probably makes a permanent switch to the backrow over the next couple of seasons.
Savage still at least a year away with the genuine pace.
Perhaps Hopoate makes a move.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yeah i mean we've still got Timoko and HSS, and i've still got really high hopes for Simo too. Valemi as well. All these guys have the ability, and if one or two of them could kick on and become staples of the team and strong contributors, it would be very helpful as we look at how to get better in the back 5 in the next 18 months
But we do need to get better and time is sort of starting to run out on some of those guys, and we maybe at a point where we have to go outside the club to find something
But we do need to get better and time is sort of starting to run out on some of those guys, and we maybe at a point where we have to go outside the club to find something
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yep, I see Kris as a back rower long term. Seems to play that kind of role currently even in the centres. No doubt Ricky saw this and picked him there against the Warriors. We see a lot of players gradually make the transition and be successful.zim wrote: ↑April 14, 2021, 12:03 pm Be interesting to see where it ends up next year with Rapana retiring. Valemei should be in the mix.
Kris if we retain him probably makes a permanent switch to the backrow over the next couple of seasons.
Savage still at least a year away with the genuine pace.
Perhaps Hopoate makes a move.
Hopoate is an interesting one. Lots of hype coming through juniors at Sea Eagles. Successive knee recos cut him short. One to keep an eye on.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
With Simo I'm seeing a guy who does his job. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not seeing anything next level. Makes him easily replaceable provided that person offers something more. Bit of a Michael Oldifeld type.Botman wrote: ↑April 14, 2021, 12:08 pm Yeah i mean we've still got Timoko and HSS, and i've still got really high hopes for Simo too. Valemi as well. All these guys have the ability, and if one or two of them could kick on and become staples of the team and strong contributors, it would be very helpful as we look at how to get better in the back 5 in the next 18 months
But we do need to get better and time is sort of starting to run out on some of those guys, and we maybe at a point where we have to go outside the club to find something
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Would love to see Semi become our Sivo/To'o/Ravalawa, hes still young and has the frame to be damaging, and from the chances he had previously he had speed, if HSS or Timoko or AN Other step up would make a world of difference.
I was going to type its a big IF, but maybe its not that big?
Savage comes through, an astute signing and will look exciting.
I was going to type its a big IF, but maybe its not that big?
Savage comes through, an astute signing and will look exciting.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I reckon I saw the most telling argument for Aekins' inclusion during the interviews with Hodgo. He said, roughly, that "Ricky asked some of the senior boys who they thought should get the role and when he suggested Caeleb, we all said yes". Or perhaps in other words, the "senior boys" listened to a whole bunch of stupid ideas and the second Ricky suggested maybe Aekins they all went "Yes, please god, not any of those other stupid ideas, YES!"
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Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I think we’re really going to struggle without Charnze. I really hope I’m wrong, but could be a rough month or two.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
The defensive talk /organisation skills may be missed. (Cooper Cronk in the GF with one arm showed how important that can be to a side's D). And there's no measuring or replacing the try saver he tends to come up with most weeks.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 6:44 am I think we’re really going to struggle without Charnze. I really hope I’m wrong, but could be a rough month or two.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
The fact Ricky has gone for a full time FB and the senior players have confidence in him suggests they have trained enough with Caleb to know he fulfills that part of the role too and are comfortable he gets it.
Be interesting to see if Scott or Croker pick up the grunt yards work CHarnze does- our wingers generally do a fair amount, it's the centres who took some extra carries when Charnze went off. It'll be a bit of a test of Scott's ribs and Toots honestly probably shouldn't be doing it- if he needs to take a tough run make it a wide pass with Rapana + Aekins or Wighton (whoever is back) running off him, please not back into the ruck. Croker is good enough to pass if the defenders over commit to him or if they hold off and check the runners he can slide his nose through. Other teams combat the "rush and crush" by getting wider earlier. On the Toots side, it might be a good play for us.
If we don't seem to miss the yards, I hope someone points out to Charnze that if he did a bit less battering ramming, he might have some more in the tank for those explosive plays or split second decisions up the attacking end. A bit of calm to pick his moment. hard when he's buggered all the time.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
There's no "may" about it. The defensive talk /organisation skills WILL be missed, as was evidenced on Friday night against the Panthers. We're a defensive based unit these days, our whole game is based around it. Without that defensive cohesion, we won't stop the better teams running up big scores against us, and we just don't have the attack to compensate.BadnMean wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 8:07 amThe defensive talk /organisation skills may be missed. (Cooper Cronk in the GF with one arm showed how important that can be to a side's D). And there's no measuring or replacing the try saver he tends to come up with most weeks.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 6:44 am I think we’re really going to struggle without Charnze. I really hope I’m wrong, but could be a rough month or two.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
The fact Ricky has gone for a full time FB and the senior players have confidence in him suggests they have trained enough with Caleb to know he fulfills that part of the role too and are comfortable he gets it.
Be interesting to see if Scott or Croker pick up the grunt yards work CHarnze does- our wingers generally do a fair amount, it's the centres who took some extra carries when Charnze went off. It'll be a bit of a test of Scott's ribs and Toots honestly probably shouldn't be doing it- if he needs to take a tough run make it a wide pass with Rapana + Aekins or Wighton (whoever is back) running off him, please not back into the ruck. Croker is good enough to pass if the defenders over commit to him or if they hold off and check the runners he can slide his nose through. Other teams combat the "rush and crush" by getting wider earlier. On the Toots side, it might be a good play for us.
If we don't seem to miss the yards, I hope someone points out to Charnze that if he did a bit less battering ramming, he might have some more in the tank for those explosive plays or split second decisions up the attacking end. A bit of calm to pick his moment. hard when he's buggered all the time.
The big question here is whether or not Aekins can organise the defense like Charnze... what he does in attack will be largely irrelevant if we can't get that under control.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Boy how embarrassing it would be if the players weren't on message with supporting the guy that was signed specifically as a backup fullback.Lui_Bon wrote: ↑April 14, 2021, 10:54 pm I reckon I saw the most telling argument for Aekins' inclusion during the interviews with Hodgo. He said, roughly, that "Ricky asked some of the senior boys who they thought should get the role and when he suggested Caeleb, we all said yes". Or perhaps in other words, the "senior boys" listened to a whole bunch of stupid ideas and the second Ricky suggested maybe Aekins they all went "Yes, please god, not any of those other stupid ideas, YES!"
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
This is my view as well. For better or worse every decision Ricky has made since the 2019 pre-season has been made from a defensive point of view. I hope Aekins plays well and I'm sure he can handle FG. But CNK is a HUGE loss to our squad.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 8:35 amThere's no "may" about it. The defensive talk /organisation skills WILL be missed, as was evidenced on Friday night against the Panthers. We're a defensive based unit these days, our whole game is based around it. Without that defensive cohesion, we won't stop the better teams running up big scores against us, and we just don't have the attack to compensate.BadnMean wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 8:07 amThe defensive talk /organisation skills may be missed. (Cooper Cronk in the GF with one arm showed how important that can be to a side's D). And there's no measuring or replacing the try saver he tends to come up with most weeks.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 6:44 am I think we’re really going to struggle without Charnze. I really hope I’m wrong, but could be a rough month or two.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
The fact Ricky has gone for a full time FB and the senior players have confidence in him suggests they have trained enough with Caleb to know he fulfills that part of the role too and are comfortable he gets it.
Be interesting to see if Scott or Croker pick up the grunt yards work CHarnze does- our wingers generally do a fair amount, it's the centres who took some extra carries when Charnze went off. It'll be a bit of a test of Scott's ribs and Toots honestly probably shouldn't be doing it- if he needs to take a tough run make it a wide pass with Rapana + Aekins or Wighton (whoever is back) running off him, please not back into the ruck. Croker is good enough to pass if the defenders over commit to him or if they hold off and check the runners he can slide his nose through. Other teams combat the "rush and crush" by getting wider earlier. On the Toots side, it might be a good play for us.
If we don't seem to miss the yards, I hope someone points out to Charnze that if he did a bit less battering ramming, he might have some more in the tank for those explosive plays or split second decisions up the attacking end. A bit of calm to pick his moment. hard when he's buggered all the time.
The big question here is whether or not Aekins can organise the defense like Charnze... what he does in attack will be largely irrelevant if we can't get that under control.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Agreed. I'd say CNK has been our most important player this season. With the lack of metres on long kicks Jack and George are getting, the metres CNK makes in his runs are so important. That together with his try saving tackles and defensive organisation, I think we are gonna feel the effects of his absence.
Hope Aekins fills the void neatly but we're deluded if we think this isn't a big loss.
Hope Aekins fills the void neatly but we're deluded if we think this isn't a big loss.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
I have to say I'm more concerned about filling the gap left by CNK than I was about Hodgson's injury last year.Raider47 wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 9:25 am Agreed. I'd say CNK has been our most important player this season. With the lack of metres on long kicks Jack and George are getting, the metres CNK makes in his runs are so important. That together with his try saving tackles and defensive organisation, I think we are gonna feel the effects of his absence.
Hope Aekins fills the void neatly but we're deluded if we think this isn't a big loss.
Hopefully time proves me wrong, but I have a bad feeling about this.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Yep. We're in big trouble.The Nickman wrote: ↑April 15, 2021, 6:44 am I think we’re really going to struggle without Charnze. I really hope I’m wrong, but could be a rough month or two.
Not expecting to come away with the W this week.
Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
Hodgsons lateral movement is not good enough to defend an edge.
So if you play him in the halves he still has to defend the middle..
I am not a fan of a change in halves, our halves are going ok. Our defence will be interesting without CNK to carry it.
So if you play him in the halves he still has to defend the middle..
I am not a fan of a change in halves, our halves are going ok. Our defence will be interesting without CNK to carry it.
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Re: Raiders dealt huge blow as neck injury puts CNK out for up to two months
There's enough reason to be concerned, for sure. Time will tell.
As for Hodgson's loss last year, I'm still not convinced we're any better with him over Havili/Starling. Not to say he shouldn't be picked, he offers a lot of intangibles as well as potential upside, but it's interesting. And I'm not even saying it means Hodgo is bad, perhaps it shows the quality of his replacements, I am a big fan of Havili, and Starling speaks for himself
As for Hodgson's loss last year, I'm still not convinced we're any better with him over Havili/Starling. Not to say he shouldn't be picked, he offers a lot of intangibles as well as potential upside, but it's interesting. And I'm not even saying it means Hodgo is bad, perhaps it shows the quality of his replacements, I am a big fan of Havili, and Starling speaks for himself