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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 11:32 am
by yurithe1
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that Lui is going to spend time in Reserves soon to either lose some weight or whatever it takes for him to be able to cope with the speed of the game.

I'd be picking Guler to take his spot in the 17 because he's more mobile and really, props don't hit their stride until they're older than he is now.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 12:49 pm
by rayden83
Botman wrote: April 8, 2021, 10:48 am And he played middle in SOO and did so quite well, well enough to be a staple automatic selection for the most dominant SOO side in history and the key bench forward to spell guys like Matt Scott

I dont know what the **** we're even talking about here :lol:
Neither do I. I didn’t say Papalii was a bad player or even average, in fact I said he was good. Then I said his legacy has grown and he had improved drastically, as evidenced by the automatic selection he now merits for QLD and Australia. To some people, usually parochial Raiders supporters, to suggest he was anything other than immortal and Christ incarnate ever since he debuted in 2012, is tantamount to treason. I’m sorry if you feel that way, I wasn’t attacking the bloke, just pointing out that he is a better player now than on 2016. I’m sorry if I offended anyone, I’m happy to donate a box of kleenex if it will help deal with the emotional trauma.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 1:02 pm
by EJ
Brah, your take on Papa's career is just unequivocally bad. The end.

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 1:45 pm
by rayden83
EJ wrote: April 8, 2021, 1:02 pm Brah, your take on Papa's career is just unequivocally bad. The end.

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What take? That he was a good player, but he has improved and is now a great player? How is that even controversial? :lol: He was an inconsistent origin selection until 2017. He didn’t even solidify his place in the run on side until 2019. Now he is automatic starter for QLD and Australia, won the Meninga medal two years running and Dally M prop of the year 2020. Doesn’t that signify he has improved? Doesn’t that indicate he is now a better player than in previous seasons?

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 2:01 pm
by The Nickman
Dig up, stupid!!

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 2:54 pm
by Northern Raider
No question that Papalii post 2017 is a better player than pre 2017. However this is somebody that has ways been of a high standard and steadily improved ever since he entered the NRL. To say he didn't hit his stride till 2017 is so incredibly wrong.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 3:56 pm
by pickles
The fact that Papalii has continued to improve over his career doesn't relate at all to where he was at a similar point in his career to Hors. He was much better and as has been pointed out, playing alongside McCrone.

Hors has had more brain snaps in a single game than Papalii has had in his whole career.. and really, throwing moisturiser isn't that bad is it now?

I certainly want to see him stay but we are spoiled for choice at the moment, it's one of those good problems!

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 3:57 pm
by Seiffert82
Unlike Nickman, I love what both Hors and Sutton bring to our pack, but I'm afraid to say that the Papa vs Hors comparison was a little bit of a stretch.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 5:14 pm
by afgtnk
rayden83 wrote: April 8, 2021, 1:45 pm
EJ wrote: April 8, 2021, 1:02 pm Brah, your take on Papa's career is just unequivocally bad. The end.

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What take? That he was a good player, but he has improved and is now a great player? How is that even controversial? :lol: He was an inconsistent origin selection until 2017. He didn’t even solidify his place in the run on side until 2019. Now he is automatic starter for QLD and Australia, won the Meninga medal two years running and Dally M prop of the year 2020. Doesn’t that signify he has improved? Doesn’t that indicate he is now a better player than in previous seasons?
He's cemented his spot because of retirements and natural turnover, coupled with the Queensland side not being as stacked as they were before.

They were loyal to the players that came before Papalii because they won win them - I don't necessarily think that it means they were better than him though. To even get a run in that Queensland side from 2006 to around 2017 is a huge achievement in itself anyway.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 5:48 pm
by -TW-
afgtnk wrote:
rayden83 wrote: April 8, 2021, 1:45 pm
EJ wrote: April 8, 2021, 1:02 pm Brah, your take on Papa's career is just unequivocally bad. The end.

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What take? That he was a good player, but he has improved and is now a great player? How is that even controversial? Image He was an inconsistent origin selection until 2017. He didn’t even solidify his place in the run on side until 2019. Now he is automatic starter for QLD and Australia, won the Meninga medal two years running and Dally M prop of the year 2020. Doesn’t that signify he has improved? Doesn’t that indicate he is now a better player than in previous seasons?
He's cemented his spot because of retirements and natural turnover, coupled with the Queensland side not being as stacked as they were before.

They were loyal to the players that came before Papalii because they won win them - I don't necessarily think that it means they were better than him though. To even get a run in that Queensland side from 2006 to around 2017 is a huge achievement in itself anyway.
That was my thoughts as well when I read the "inconsistent" take

He came in to cover gaps, and then earnt his spot permanently when those players moved on.

He's hardly been less than consistent, he got dropped when his form dipped below the standard he set of himself, and it was only one game.

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 6:20 pm
by rayden83
Papalii to be overlooked for Maroons

https://www.thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=29439

“Im fine with that, would like Papa for the Dogs game, his effort this year has been good, but he's still not back to where he was deserving of origin footy

Hopefully this motivates him to step his game back up”

- Botman

:lol:

p.s. he was dropped for Lillyman, thank god Lillyman retired so Papa could nail down his place :lol:

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm
by hobbsy
I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 7:14 pm
by rayden83
hobbsy wrote: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23
Wot?

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 7:18 pm
by hobbsy
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:02 pm Was Papa definitely better at 23 than Hors? Dunno, possibly not, fringe SOS player back then.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 8:33 pm
by The Nickman
Hahaha rayden shooting balls into his own net now... amazing scenes!

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 8, 2021, 8:50 pm
by -TW-
Rayden having an absolute Barry here

You hate to see it..

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 8:04 am
by Botman
hobbsy wrote: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23
That post really doesnt support his argument at all!

INCREDIBLE scenes
Rayden absolutely wallowing in his owns **** here. You love to see it.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 8:41 am
by BadnMean
hobbsy wrote: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23
Built on the flimsiest of foundations to start with- a Botman post!

But he was already recognised as one of the best in 2016, which by my count is 5 years ago. Which would make Papa 23 in 2016 and already recognised as top drawer in his position. Hors is now 23... No one is saying he is one of the best in his position, just that he might be good one day of he gets his head and body in order.
https://www.nrl.com/news/2016/12/28/top ... n-the-nrl/

Assume in those days you have to be playing incredible in Canberra for a couple of years before that to earn the recognition. As stated, he stepped up and put the NRL on alert in 2012 when he hammered Gallen all over the park, then launched Buhrer into orbit in 2013.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am
by Roger Kenworthy
Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 9:32 am
by Northern Raider
This is fantastic.

Keep fighting Rayden. Don't give up! :cmon

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 9:56 am
by rayden83
Botman wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:04 am
hobbsy wrote: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23
That post really doesnt support his argument at all!

INCREDIBLE scenes
Rayden absolutely wallowing in his owns **** here. You love to see it.
Like you can talk Botty

“It is unfathomable that people, including Raiders fans forget the guy was one of the best 3-4 backrowers IN THE WORLD about about 5 years”

then...

“Im fine with that, would like Papa for the Dogs game, his effort this year has been good, but he's still not back to where he was deserving of origin footy“

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 10:01 am
by simo
imagine going through a forum posters near 30000 posts to grab at straws. this is truly... boring?

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 10:10 am
by Northern Raider
simo wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:01 am imagine going through a forum posters near 30000 posts to grab at straws. this is truly... boring?
Not just that. How about going through 30,000 of Botman's posts. I struggle to get through 3 of them.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
by pickles
This thread is like a postman, it continues to deliver!

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
by rayden83
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:09 am
by The Nickman
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.
Do you even know what the point you were originally trying to make is anymore?

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:12 am
by -TW-
The Nickman wrote:
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.
Do you even know what the point you were originally trying to make is anymore?
Yeah... But.... HE THREW SORBOLENE AT SOMEONE AT THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS ONCE

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Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:12 am
by BadnMean
The Nickman wrote: April 9, 2021, 11:09 am
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.
Do you even know what the point you were originally trying to make is anymore?
No, you are.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:16 am
by rayden83
Here we have it lads, irrefutable proof that I, as always, am correct and it is the mob who are wrong.

Raiders fans choice player of the year - Josh Papalii

2012 - 5th
2013 - 6th
2014 - 7th
2015 - 15TH!!!!
2016 - 1st
2017 - 4th
2018 - 1st
2019 - 1st
2020 - 1st

This indeed proves that even among Raiders supporters that there has been a significant rise in his stocks since 2015, and that he did indeed “hit his stride” from 2016 and beyond. The thing I got wrong was the year (2017) but I was bang on with the age (24-25). Rayden 1 Mob 0

So is the argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Horsburgh at the same age a valid one? Certainly when you consider the fact that Papalii was ranked as a mid tier player by his own supporters in side that frequently struggled to make the finals. Papa benefited from debuting in his teens and had at least four full seasons under his belt before his finally HIT HIS STRIDE and went from a GOOD player to a GREAT player. Horsburgh by comparison has more competition in the forward pack and snapped his ankle last year, so we are yet to see the best of what he can offer.
There’s no question that Papa achieved more, but achieving does not necessarily correlate with innate talent and raw ability. I’m sure y’all agree that Horsburgh is a good player, why cannot his career follow a similar trajectory to that of Papa? Were it not for injury he would’ve had 3 origin caps by now. Rayden 2 - Mob 0

😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:32 am
by Pete Cash
But even before he """"hit his stride""""" he was producing more in games than Hors has so far. I think we can all appreciate that Papalii probably had some maturity issues. He battled with his fitness and was a magnet for at times frankly bizarre off field incidents

But he had games like when he scored two tries against the Broncos in 2011 in his first year where it was obvious he was a stud. He debuted in his teens because he was that good. Papalii has crazy innate talent and raw ability. There were times where maybe I was a bit worried he wouldn't live up to his potential and it reached a low point when he got dropped in 2018 after the uhh unfortunate Samoa world cup campaign/tour of all you can eat buffets in the region (and it happened with ALL our players who repped Samoa not just Papa) but his response to that was so good. He came back like a beast.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:33 am
by Raider Azz
rayden83 wrote: April 7, 2021, 9:02 pm Was Papa definitely better at 23 than Hors? Dunno, possibly not, fringe SOS player back then.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:41 am
by Walter
What's the deal with CHN and Horsburgh?

Image

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:44 am
by Northern Raider
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.
Interesting. Somebody told us that was they year he finally hit his stride.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:54 am
by Botman
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 9:56 am
Botman wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:04 am
hobbsy wrote: April 8, 2021, 7:09 pm I really don't know whether that post solidifies your original argument that Papalii was possibly not better than Hors is at age 23
That post really doesnt support his argument at all!

INCREDIBLE scenes
Rayden absolutely wallowing in his owns **** here. You love to see it.
Like you can talk Botty

“It is unfathomable that people, including Raiders fans forget the guy was one of the best 3-4 backrowers IN THE WORLD about about 5 years”

then...

“Im fine with that, would like Papa for the Dogs game, his effort this year has been good, but he's still not back to where he was deserving of origin footy“

I'm gonna help you out here, because you sorely **** need it... clearly you're as dense as they come.

We're talking about a collective period of 6-8 years in which he was for the vast majority of that one of the best 3-4 backrowers in the world. This is a period of footy where you obviously preoccupied with primary school

That doesn't mean he never had form slumps, or came back into the season not as his peak physical state. Just collective, his level of performance ranked him comfortably in the top 3-4

That specific post was in 2015, and he was not playing at his best at that moment in time, and IIRC he was a little out of shape and his form had dropped off, the Raiders needed him and my motivations are revealed in the quote.
1. I wanted the guy to be playing for us, which is entirely consistent with SOO every year. I dont really care about origin beyond it being a good of footy
2. The dropping would motivate him to lift his game to his usual WORLD CLASS standard

I dont know what point you think you're making, but you're failing and all you're serving to do is to prove what a truly remarkable idiot you are.
The notion that Corey Horsburgh is right now as a 23 year old on the same **** PLANET as a footballer as 23 year old Papalii was is so astonishingly bad, that it defies belief that someone would even say it.

Re: CHN and Horsburgh

Posted: April 9, 2021, 11:59 am
by rayden83
Northern Raider wrote: April 9, 2021, 11:44 am
rayden83 wrote: April 9, 2021, 10:33 am
Roger Kenworthy wrote: April 9, 2021, 8:52 am Don't forget Paps had played in a winning World Cup final team at 21.
He was also dropped entirely for the 2017 world cup.
Interesting. Somebody told us that was they year he finally hit his stride.
Then I corrected it (above) to 2016. Hittings ones stride doesnt guarantee rep football. Although he was an immensely better footballer he still had consistency issues up until at least 2018. He is probably now the worlds best prop.